[Closed] Talk to me about.. a new life

"Normally we think our happiness is contingent upon external circumstances and situations, rather than upon our own inner atti­tude toward things, or toward life in general. The Buddha was saying that dissatisfaction is part of life, even if we are seeking happiness and even if we manage to find temporary happiness. The very fact that it is temporary means that sooner or later the happiness is going to pass. So the Buddha said that unless we understand this and see how pervasive dissatisfaction or [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dukkha ]duhka[/url] is, it is impossible for us to start looking for real happiness.

Normally we think our happiness is contingent upon external circumstances and situations, rather than upon our own inner atti­tude toward things, or toward life in general

Hmm.... that looks to me like it's saying just accept everything and don't bother trying for anything.

Which is fine, and might well work, but I do not want to give up on what I want.

What do you want?

Do you want all of these things, and will always be dissatisfied unless you achieve all of them?

I want to travel without a schedule, be a musician, be a top class racer, do the Tour Divide, climb mountains, be a photographer, be well read, be a writer, etc etc etc. Many of those things require a lifetime of dedication on their own.

I'd be happy with some of them. Or even the pursuit of some of them.

Time is the real issue. 5 weeks a year off is not enough.

suck it up. in 25 years time you'll be playing with the grandkids and feeling pleased you gave your kids a stable start and a loving household. Don't risk that.

You don't have any time in evenings/weekends? And the point about cutting back on expenditure wherever possible is that you can then afford to work less, which means more time for the things you really want to do.

As of now, expenditure is at a minimum.

There's (nearly) always ways to cut back, you just might not like some of them/consider them worth it.

suck it up. in 25 years time you'll be [s]playing with the grandkids[/s] too old to do much of the active stuff

You don't have any time in evenings/weekends?

Yes, but we've got a continuous struggle to clean and tidy. I get an hour or two late in the evenings, as looking after kids is quite full time.

And the point about cutting back on expenditure wherever possible is that you can then afford to work less

How does that work? I'm contracted to work set hours, I can't just work less when I feel like it.

Start your own business and employ people to cover for you when you want time off. I wasn't very good at that but did organise my days so I could run in the morning, swim at lunchtime and bike to the contracts I worked myself.

Start your own business

That's famously difficult. I've considered it, not sure what I'd actually do. And it's a huge gamble isn't it? I'm not sure how I'd do it without putting my family security at risk.

How does that work? I'm contracted to work set hours, I can't just work less when I feel like it.

If your expenditure was lower you could potentially afford to work part-time, possibly in a different job if the current job doesn't allow.

That's famously difficult. I've considered it, not sure what I'd actually do. And it's a huge gamble isn't it? I'm not sure how I'd do it without putting my family security at risk.

Again, not meaning to be harsh but you seem to have a bit of a 'can't do' attitude, and you're not sure what it is that you really want. I don't think your situation is going to change much with that in mind. If there is something you feel sufficiently passionate about then you have to make time to do it and get on with it - if not then don't bother and stop complaining! 🙂

you seem to have a bit of a 'can't do' attitude

Hmm.. beware of making crass predictions about people you don't really know.

My post there was caution about the difficulty of starting your own business, and had some questions in it. Would it be wise for me to quit my job and start some venture with no idea how to do it?

I'll admit I don't have an idea of a business to start - anything I could think of would be in a crowded area, and I've no idea if it would work or not. I don't really know how to find out if it would, either.

I would have to be pretty confident it was going to work to do attempt something like that, and I'd have to have security.

In reality contracting is a good option, but now we have the issue of school for the kids. Never realy had a solution for that.

Hmm.. beware of making crass predictions about people you don't really know.

Just an observation - obviously I don't really know you so take it with whatever sized pinch of salt you feel is appropriate.

My post there was caution about the difficulty of starting your own business, and had some questions in it. Would it be wise for me to quit my job and start some venture with no idea how to do it?

Do you have to quit your job? Eg I have started a photography business, while still working part-time on a (very small) salary in my old job.

I'll admit I don't have an idea of a business to start - anything I could think of would be in a crowded area, and I've no idea if it would work or not. I don't really know how to find out if it would, either.

Mine is in a crowded area, and I've no idea if it will work in the long term, but I'm going to give it a good go. I'm not sure there is any way of finding out without just going for it.

There's also the issue of golden handcuffs. I've ended up through bad planning in a situation where I need quite a big salary to fund the household.

Being a photographer would be a great business, but I can only imagine that I have enough talent to make it work. I've got no idea really!

It's easy to start a business, a little harder to build a good reputation and client base. If you don't give up the day job initially you don't take much risk. Do some market research which includes having your first clients on board the day you start and it's not a gampble either. Your wife may want to get on board as it would allow her to work from home and have more time with the kids. You might find she is better at some aspects of the business and leaves you to look after the kids sometimes.

We met a guy cycling though Germany that had set up a business tutoring kids in London for £50 an hour. A computer bod I know mixes a few hours teaching at the univesity with self-employed consulting. A geologist found oil companies prefered paying him a small fortune when they needed him rather than have him on the books all the time.

I used to be ambitious but 15 years of corporate life taught me that it isn't necessarily the brightest or cleverest or even hardest working that get the rewards - in fact it appears to be a disadvantage, as no one can afford to not have you in your job. I've been a lot happier since I made peace with that, and realised I'd be happy stacking shelves if I could cover the bills as all my real 'wants' lie outside of work.

This guy speaks the truth

Clients for what though? What business? That's the issue.

I have no skills that I could consult for short periods of time. The only experience I've had has been implementation of projects which is a long term thing. I don't even know of any roles that consult short term, apart from the one I am in now for my employer. I've never known anyone do my job independently on a short term consulting basis though.

Tutoring I could do though.

realised I'd be happy stacking shelves if I could cover the bills as all my real 'wants' lie outside of work.

See.. I've stacked shelves, when I didn't need the money, and the job itself was utterly awful. I couldn't stack shelves, even if it paid well enough.

The guy who represented Britain in 100m freestyle in the LA games lives here in Pau. When he quit swimming he moved to France and started landscape gardening. He found that customers liked his style which contrasted with the "green concrete" of many French gardeners and has a successful business. Total investment: a van, a trailer and the tool collection most people hav ein their shed.

Think of anything you can do, could do and most of all, think you'd be happy enough doing not to spend all day wishing you were doing something else. Youmay find it bizarre but I enjoyed teaching English to oil drillers more than working on environmental science projects. I made a lot more money too thanks to all those that worked for me.

Think of anything you can do, could do and most of all, think you'd be happy enough doing not to spend all day wishing you were doing something else.

I've thought about this a lot. I'm not sure there is anything. My brain seems to always want to be elsewhere.

Writer I could maybe do, maybe photographer. I love to fix things and solve problems (which is what I like about my current job) but once I've solved a problem I need a new one, and I need it quickly.

Yoou like fixing things - plumber! Sign up for City and Guilds evening classes or wahtever they call them now.

Rdit: or a roofer if you're into mountaineering.

molgrips, I have no idea what you earn, but I would be happy to look at your CV in relation to the work we corresponded over about two years ago. Then you could have 13 weeks off per year. 😉

Seriously, there is quite a bit of scope for traipsing about woods, camping, exploring, or doing whatever else takes your fancy in this job.

musician... if you've even got a hint of what it takes inside you to achieve that you'd be writing music in any free second you had.

photographer... easy to enter your photos into competitions, easy to start a business that wont impact on your current paid work until you're earning money from it, the amount of free time you have to play on STW could be used for editing etc. my dad and step mum did just that and were being paid over 1.5k a wedding within weeks of setting up the business.

writer... again... if you've got free time to post on STW you could be working on your great novel or whatever you want to write.

no excuses, if you want to even work towards achieving your dreams, then get on with it and prove everyone who's ever predicted you'd back out of a race, not commit to a diet, or doubted you'd commit properly to achieving all the goals you set yourself.

i'm guessing mrsgrips knows you better than anybody from what you've said on here in the past about your relationship, does she see a writer, musician etc inside you? 🙂

Sometimes you've got to 'JFDI' in order to make huge changes. Can't see that happening when you're a responsible parent.

I'm sure there are changes that can be made along the way which will fill the gaps.

I left my responsible job in the Uk and now do gardening for the rich and famous in the South of France. Not sure I'd have taken such a huge leap with children to consider.

Good luck with whatever path you take.

Yoou like fixing things - plumber!

Not hard enough.

if you've even got a hint of what it takes inside you to achieve that you'd be writing music in any free second you had.

I sing my own music in my head all the time. Lyrics, musicianship and self criticism are the problem! I play, but not well enough to get what's in my head out.

easy to start a business that wont impact on your current paid work

Really? I don't think so. It'd take most weekends to earn a crust as a wedding/event snapper. Plus I'd need a boatload of kit, my amateur stuff won't cut it.

writer... again... if you've got free time to post on STW you could be working on your great novel or whatever you want to write.

I've mulled over many books in my head, I do have one on the go right now that will blow you away, seriously, it's that good 🙂

If I could just finish with with enough energy.. maybe that's the root problem - how to deal with work.

Write it then.

Thanks, Einstein.

I think your actually in a pretty strong position...you have skills which allow you to freelance and the contractor market is buoyant at the moment.

You have a family, and you need to keep them secure. From what you have posted on this thread, there seems a pretty obvious path to realising a lot of your aspirations...go back to contracting, knuckle down, and use the money wisely to pay off your mortgage and buy some freetime to indulge the things you want to explore.

You said you freelanced before, but the money evaporated. The thoughts you are having now should be making you revaluate what you can achieve with your money. You don't have to fall into the contractor bullshitfest lifestyle. Use the money to strengthen your (and your families) position.

Your really fortunate, you should approach this from a position of strength, not weakness.

boat load of kit... it wasn't long ago you started a thread about buying a boat!

i'm like you molly, i sit and daydream about being able to achieve loads of things if i put my mind to it... after all, i'm a clever guy who's done well in everything he's applied himself to, my teachers and parents always said i could, high IQ, taller than deadlydarcy, massive penis... the world's my oyster. many times i've made moves towards achieving those things and either get bored quickly or realise i'd need to put much more work in and kinda give up.

luckily i've found a vocation i'm awesome at, and its completely natural to me so 99% of the time doesn't feel like a job.

big thing i learnt a long time ago is that lifes too short to spent time worrying about what i can't achieve (whether through time constraints, financial constraints, location, relationships, dependants etc etc etc) but think i could be capable of.... and to focus on what i can achieve just by playing my strengths and making the most of everyone and everything i love.

I have all the same feelings, but I don't do anything because I'm scared but unlike phill above my penis is quite small.

How much could you rent your house out for?

How much could you rent a smaller house / flat for?
Do you or your wife have family near by that you could live with for say 12 months?

A small business for some one like your self could be Java training (I seem to remember you said you develop in Java?) or OO design or project management. Set yourself up and offer a short course, 1 - 5 days ring round a load of companies and offer the course to them at their premises. If you start off with really short courses (1-2 days) you could even do a few with a combination of sickies and holiday time and keep your current job. Try and get a part time job at a FEA or similar the you could have a small but reliable wage and have time to do other work.

If all else fails sell drugs, they can be very profitable.

you didn't answer the question about mrsgrips 🙁 you guys have a super honest relationship from what you've said in the past, has she read the book? 🙂

go back to contracting, knuckle down, and use the money

Yeah I've basically decided I'm going to do this. The issue last time was a serious deterioration in my CV due to a really rubbish couple of jobs. One reason for taking this permie job was to get some good skills and experience, which I think it will do. I'm already at a higher level on projects than I have been in the past.

A small business for some one like your self could be Java training

Yeah, that is a good idea. I think I could be really good at it in fact, I love to teach.

has she read the book?

I haven't written any of it yet, but I don't think it's the kind of book she'd like. Maybe though, depends how it turns out. It'll be one of those books where the plot isn't particularly important, but it needs a reasonably strong one all the same.

You're right Phil. Well a couple of days back on STW were entertaining but there's a real world out there and it shouldn't be too hot to venture out into it tomorrow. Good luck with whatever you end up doing, Molgrips.

Thank you, IHN, for starting the Endinburgh thread, I wondered where Don, TJ and TSY had gone; a great pity.

and to focus on what i can achieve just by playing my strengths and making the most of everyone and everything i love

So, giving up on my dreams then?

I've not given up on any dreams, I've achieved everything I wanted so far 🙂 I said I have daydreams, not pipe dreams of being a famous author, musician, podium standing cyclist, mountain climbing photographer who also manages to find time to be a good dad 😉

Find your bliss and a whole pathway of possibilities will open up in front of you if it's truly what you're capable of and have a real, determined passion and natural ability for.

Have the strength to change what You can, and the wisdom to know what you cannot.

That's why I said ambition was a curse. It means I'm hard to please.

Have the strength to change what You can, and the wisdom to know what you cannot.

That's the whole point of this thread!

That's famously difficult. I've considered it, not sure what I'd actually do. And it's a huge gamble isn't it? I'm not sure how I'd do it without putting my family security at risk.

I thought this, and didn't set up on my own for years and years. Then got made redundant and went for it in the absence of any more compelling avenues. I'm doing essentially what I was doing before (minus the faff of managing folk) except more on my own terms. Not earning as much as I did and keeping very strange hours but I kind of like the direct correlation between doing things and (eventually) getting paid. And I very much like working in a shed in the garden, mostly being around for family meals, mostly deciding when I want to work -- as long as it all gets done, the exact times of day I do it are irrelevant. MrsD looks after the books and numbers 'cos I'm terrible at that stuff.

The main thing, though, is that I kind of wish I'd done it a lot sooner.

I'd be happy with some of them. Or even the pursuit of some of them.

Time is the real issue. 5 weeks a year off is not enough.

Maybe try doing more fun stuff at the weekends?
Your kids are very portable at that age and are luckily entertained very cheaply. (as opposed to teenagers wanting theme parks etc)

I have 3 sons and we spend most weekends going on bike rides, camping or if we fancy a city break, then book a cheap Premier inn.

The housework, diy , gardening etc is put on hold, I only do the bare minimum at weekends. They are our family time and life is too short to waste it.
Also try alternating going off/out on your own for the weekend, once a month for example, without he kids/other half so you get your own time out.

None of it has to cost much money, just depends what floats your boat 🙂

have you tried a mistress?

The housework, diy , gardening etc is put on hold,

The housework and diy never gets done in our house. Looking after the kids all day and night on her own, Mrs Grips hasn't the energy or inclination to clean when a few moments present themselves. So if we don't try at weekends, nothing gets done at all.

We do go out at weekends of course and do stuff, and go away sometimes too. Of course when I'm away all week (which I will be the rest of the year) I need a rest at the weekend so going away is a bit much.

Time is the real issue

At the risk of sounding rude, you spend a lot of time tossing it off on STW, and then complain you don't have enough time for more meaningful stuff?

The housework and diy never gets done in our house. Looking after the kids all day and night on her own, Mrs Grips hasn't the energy or inclination to clean when a few moments present themselves. So if we don't try at weekends, nothing gets done at all.

Then maybe she could benefit from getting herself a new routine? So then this would in turn benefit you as a family, so there is more free time at weekends.
There are plenty of women who single-handely raise kids, work and do housework, diy etc.
If your wife is struggling just to do some of this during the day then maybe she is not organising her time that well either.

Whilst young children are demanding, they are not a reason to put your own life on hold.

At the risk of sounding rude, you spend a lot of time tossing it off on STW,

Only when I'm at work or languishing in a hotel room doing admin or other work stuff.

You won't find many posts from me at weekends or evenings when I'm wfh.

Then maybe she could benefit from getting herself a new routine?

Again, fairly obvious! She is really strugging with health, possibly because she doesn't get enough sleep.

Whilst young children are demanding, they are not a reason to put your own life on hold.

Eh..? It's not like we've made some sort of conscious decision to live in a crappy house and struggle with things, for the benefit of the kids. Putting our lives on hold is exactly what we're trying to avoid, hence the thread!

So what is it you are looking to change?
Is it your work/free time balance
Your wifes child/child free time balance
Where you live
The job you do
Your hobbies
Your ambitions

I think if you segment it into smaller parts then you may be able to focus on one thing at a time and solutions might be a bit clearer, because at the moment you sound quite confused, like you want things to change, but you are not sure what those things are and how to go about changing them.

Have a read of [url= http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/ ]Four Hour Working Week[/url] . The guy is a bit of a jerk, but he does have some good ideas about living life to the full and having 'mini retirements' throughout your working life.

The thread was actually about alternative lifestyles, that don't require a large injection of money or the liquidation of an asset.

So far people seem to be either a) struggling along in the same boat, b) don't have kids or c) are happy with the normal situation.

The people living "alternative lifestyles" d) don't post on here all the time.

Well you've been given a lot of very good advice, particularly by philconsequence, but somehow I get the impression that you're not really engaging with the bits you don't want to hear.

Are you looking for a new life or a new you? Move to Kathmandu and you'll still be the same person.

So you've got a reasonable job, don't have a lavish lifestyle and have a relatively modest house. If all of those things really are true then why don't you have any money?

For reference, our income halved when we became parents.

But I do not accept that I just have to give up

There's also the issue of golden handcuffs. I've ended up through bad planning in a situation where I need quite a big salary to fund the household

So, giving up on my dreams then?

That's why I said ambition was a curse. It means I'm hard to please

Your curse isn't ambition, it's wanting things you either cannot achieve or will not work hard enough to achieve.

Why not downsize? If you can't afford your lifestyle as it is now you'll never be able to afford to do all the things you want to do.

So move from a three bedroomed semi to where? With what money shall we move?

In my experience ambitious people, at least those that achieve their ambitions, are committed and driven enough to make the sacrifices required to achieve those ambitions.

Most people who succeed with their ambitions are also single minded. I'm not, I have far too many desires. I try to make as many of them real as possible.

My main aim is to get my life set up the way I want it, to make all of us as happy as we can be. I won't stop trying to do that.

This thread wasn't asking for advice on how to do that, by the way. It was asking for experiences of people who've done something alternative. More alternative than simply working part time.

Well you've been given a lot of very good advice, particularly by philconsequence, but somehow I get the impression that you're not really engaging with the bits you don't want to hear.

Well, I've been told to a) give up on what I want b) stfu and stop whingeing and c) spend less and pay off your mortgage. Which either miss the point, are so bleedin obvious they don't need pointing out or aren't areas in which I want or need advice.

Whilst it is tempting and often inevitable for men to feel we need to provide solutions to problems presented, from reading the various posts and your responses thus far, I have a hunch that unless these solutions fit in with your own fears of not realising your potential, this will not be resolved through the medium of this forum.

Molgrips, you are clearly very intelligent - possibly a little more than is wise. You appear to have an answer for most things that are being suggested and that only serves to give me the impression that the biggest barrier to you achieving your hopes, dreams, aspirations is your ego/pride. Possibly a bit too blunt and you may well indeed retaliate to defend yourself. You may want to consider the reference to Buddhism in an earlier post? Let go!

Perhaps, think of it as a time of 'suffering' and by that I mean we learn nothing about ourselves when life is good and we are surfing the crest of the wave, it is only when we are suffering and feeling low that we really start to gain insight/s and able to move on.

The universe is perfect as is everything that we create, you have created this situation for yourself (more so at a subconscious level)so that you can learn from it. If you don't achieve the realisations this time, then maybe the next time you find yourself feeling dissatisfied with your life you will. Everything happens in it's own good time, the flow is without flaw. Rushing or forcing any decision will not be for the best, let things occur with your own best intentions and volition and life will be perfect for you, for what you need to learn.

I have taken much comfort from your disclosure and others on here about what I term to be my unfulfilled potential - I too share these same fears from time to time. I don't think it helps when some posts tell you how successful they have been and how good they are - TBH I tend towards them being rather insensitive and more ego driven than your rebuttals.

Whilst you may consider yourself cleverer than any Therapist and therefore would not consider seeking someone to talk to, I would counsel that you do and leave your clever ego behind.

May I also venture that if you partake in any dope or recreational's, leave them alone completely for the time being. Skunk in particular is very bad for self-motivation. I am by no means being evangelistic here, I say it because I sense there may be a possibility that this could also be a factor, so please excuse me if I have made an incorrect assumption.

Peace, joy and love.

You work away for the week, your wife's health is suffering as a result of 24/7 child- no adult contact?- informal support -- friends/family is essential for a healthy life, we are social animals, no man is an island, these truisms come from deep fundamental needs, you sound like a 'nuclear' family, --- you might as well be on a desert island.

I am only going on your posts, your replies to well meaning advice, but the green grass you wish for lies at a more fundamental level-- this ambitious problem, its a firstworld disorder, cherish what you have, not what you desire, you and your wife's health are the most important part of life, without that everything else is tainted, don't know your upbringing etc so if you've got the protestant work ethic, i feel for you.

My father in law, who was dissatisfied with his life many years ago took some LSD and went walkabout, did it work--- he is an artist,good but can't make a living out of it-- so he became a taxi driver-- you work when you need, always meeting different people, when the weather was bad he'd be in his cab, when it was good,he'd be off scuba diving-- all this in wales

its a firstworld disorder

Yep, it is. And I'm thankful that I have the opportunity to do much more than simply feed my family. There's a whole world of experience out there, I don't want my family (or me) to miss out on it.

The job by the way is 50% at home and 50% away, and I was told (by my colleagues not management) it was not normally long periods away. Given that, it seemed like a good option.

your wife's health is suffering as a result of 24/7 child

She is just as determined to make it work as I am. She has her own plans and goals and is striving for them. Her family is overseas unfortunately - they would be a great help if they were nearby but she has stated many times she doesn't want to live in the town they do.

It was asking for experiences of people who've done something alternative. More alternative than simply working part time.

TBH I don't think you're going to find those people here 🙂

The travelling/working away seems like the biggest negative aspect of your current setup. It sounds like what you mainly need is more time. Do you necessarily have to be "alternative" to get that? Working in one location a sensible distance from home is about as unalternative as it gets but on the face of it would seem to be of benefit.

So move from a three bedroomed semi to where?

With what money shall we move?

I have far too many desires. I try to make as many of them real as possible.

There are hundreds of things I'd like to do, but unfortunately my circumstances don't allow most so I focus on those I can achieve (spending as much time as possible with family for example).

Which either miss the point, are so bleedin obvious they don't need pointing out or aren't areas in which I want or need advice

If I'm boring you by pointing out stuff that you already know then I apologise, but it seems to me that you need to accept the reality of your situation.

Nobody can make these things happen apart from you molly.

write that book
take more photos and enter them in competitions
find time to train more for that podium
go climb a mountain
write, record, produce, whatever some music.

until then, every time you come on hear to defend yourself with more reason's why you cannot do these things, you're another moment away from achieving your dreams.

i've just checked my bank balance and it appears you're payment for all this life coaching i've been providing hasn't come through yet, please disregard everything in this thread until i can confirm receipt of the payment.

promt payment will result in 50% off your next aura wash and 30% off every time i have to type 'just do it' for the next 10 working days.

I sing my own music in my head all the time. Lyrics, musicianship and self criticism are the problem! I play, but not well enough to get what's in my head out.

That's what Reason is for 🙂

My take? Not that I've cracked it by any means.

Get something creative into your spare time, and make time to do it. Don't have to be good at it and it doesn't have to be arty, just something where you can forget about stuff and lose yourself in it.
I've played guitar and sang for around 25 years.. I'm OK at it, been paid to play and toured in the past but it never looked likely to become a career. But I've noticed my mood is better when I'm putting a few minutes a day into playing, learning a new style or new songs, writing my own whatever.
I'm now making an effort to get surfing on a semi regular basis, a daft hobby for someone an hour from the nearest (flat) sea with 0 talent but hey ho... it's for the experience, and I'll only get the bare minimum of stuff I need to do it (tank of petrol and some hire money for the first few sessions at least). Been around 20 years since I last stood on one, so I'm suspecting this is my mid life crisis. Could be worse.

Pick one - do it. Good luck!

PS - if you decide you're looking for a change of work & location and fancy the look of the Beautiful South I'll keep an eye out for developer jobs in my new home.

Well, I've been told to a) give up on what I want b) stfu and stop whingeing and c) spend less and pay off your mortgage. Which either miss the point, are so bleedin obvious they don't need pointing out or aren't areas in which I want or need advice.

I'd say that anyone answering a) can be ignored as dicks, anyone answering b) can close the thread and read a different one themselves, but those answering c) are probably honestly trying to help you.
Would it be better if you clarified what advice you do want or need rather than what you don't?
IMHO, If you continually include finance as a reason to avoid following your dreams, then it is no surprise that people may see that as part of the problem where you could benefit from advice.
You're obviously quite thoughtful and philosophical about how you want to live your life. I'd say don't worry so much about getting things wrong, pick something and take a chance [cheese]it's the journey not the destination.[/cheese]

I am not in employment at the mo, so exist on benefits,but i'm not stressing, i've got plenty of time to do things i like, catch up with people, cook nice food, wind the bin lids up, stay out late if i want, ride my bike, climb a mountain, go to the beach, read a book, chat on the net,set up a sound system and entertain people, i know how lucky i am, i've got no money saved, but i seem to get by..........

1. Close your account here
2. Use the time recovered to write that book
3. Profit

So move from a three bedroomed semi to where? With what money shall we move?

You can absorb the costs into your next mortgage. Your one massive advantage is not being tied to a single location for work, I reckon you need to start using the positives to their best advantage. It might also inspire you to write that song, book or whatever else.

Seriously I'd start with moving somewhere that you would like to be, a village by the sea, a town near some hills, whatever. It will make a huge difference to being a bit hard up. And it will make coming home that much more pleasurable. I live 3 minutes from the beach, every weekend is like being on holiday in the summer and your kids won't care whether they are paddling in Bermuda or Bognor Regis.

It's easy for people to give you the MTFU line, if you are honest there's maybe an element of truth to it but anyone who's had two young kids and one wage knows how you feel and how trapped it can seem. As I said earlier it will ease but if you want to make things better now change where you live.

One of my mates shared this on FB yesterday:

[img] [/img]

Something a lot of us are guilty of ...

It's almost painful reading this. All these people are suggesting things to you and you just ignore them and want to fantasize about living like a hippy.

You have kids - thats limiting some of your options. You have a mortgage, thats limiting some more. I suggest rather than arguing about how great you are, you re-read this thread and either take note of what people have said and ask further questions or stop your whinging and man up.

The awful truth is that you have a mortgage, a wife and kids and responsibilities to them. You want a secure job (salary) to support them. You don't want or are unwilling to work for yourself.

You have a choice. Either change your secure job (salary) for something less secure but more free or or change how you spend your spare time.

The "alternative" lifestyle you claim to seek is for people who are not cautious or have retired, (they were cautious and saved hard) or those few people who are incredibly wealthy. These people either don't worry where the next meal is coming from or don't need to. You can go and live in a cabin in the woods, but at some point your children will be required to be educated. In this country it's a lawfull obligation. You could home school but that's a full time job.

To be good at something takes time and effort. To be good at 2 or 3 things takes a lot of dedication. If you want to do these other things only you can make it happen. But you will have to make sacrifices to achieve them. What you give up will be up to you. To think you can have it all is IMO, unattainable. Time to make some difficult choices only you can make.

I can empathise with much of what Molgrips says. 21st century Middle-England angst.

Similar age, position, feelings of frustration, under-achieving (or at least not getting much out of work/career), not a lot of spare time for DIY, household tasks, hobbies etc., wanting to do something more satisfying with life than 40-odd hours/week for somebody else at jobs that are all hassle and virtually no interest or satisfaction. I'd prefer to have the option to spend more time with my family and friends -and to be able to help people who are in need, rather than wealthy shareholders.

Yes, I can afford to eat and have more than enough to live on, but supporting a family, mortgage etc. mean that trying to [i]'change direction'[/i] feels impossible -If only I knew what direction to change to....

Like Molgrips, I'm inquisitive, but admit to being easily distracted. I have no head for business and finance bores me. Not really the ideal starting point for self-employment.... So I haven't even looked into it.

Fear and a lack of risk-taking? Probably.
I've a feeling that I should have done something about it years ago, I didn't make the most of my time with fewer responsibilities and have now left it too late.

Ho-hum.

[s]Buy one of these in Wales near Snowdonia

[url= http://www.logcabinswales.co.uk/home.php?/Home ]Log Cabin[/url]

Granted you can only stay for 11 months but you could always hire a cheap
place for a month surely

Well, I've been told to a) give up on what I want b) stfu and stop whingeing and c) spend less and pay off your mortgage. Which either miss the point, are so bleedin obvious they don't need pointing out or aren't areas in which I want or need advice.

Whereas what you want is for people to give you some magical solution that allows you to live out all of your wildest dreams without actually putting any effort in to anything or making any sacrifices at all? Sorry to be harsh but that's the way it comes across.

I dont know Grum I think his laid all his cards on the table including his home life and family.

To be honest I think this must include many younger families of today where your
working more than living and virtually struggling to survive week to week.

Great thread OP. Not feeling too much inspiration from the STW massive :0(

Firstly your kids are the best thing that will ever happen to you and all the mistakes (financial or otherwise) from the past are the lessons that have allowed you to think more freely.. This is the best time in your life no matter what.

Lot's of ways round planning rules and regs..
Building land is pretty pricey (if you want to live in a mudhut/cabin legally without being harassed by the local council) but small inexpensive plots do pop up from time to time close to mountains/forests if you want to live a semi 'normal' life (you will need to dig very deep and see potential where others can't.. needle in a haystack but they are still out there)
Small woodlands are available all the time but permanent living is a no-no unless you are happy to battle for your human rights for the rest of your life (possible to buy one as a Yurt/camping escape for a month or 2 every year either on your own or as part of a group?)

Is moving abroad an option? (sorry if I missed it) French/Italian mountains?? Still loads of cheap property off the beaten track maybe set up riding/walking/photography holidays (big commitment for the whole fam but achievable due to the lower prices of property in some areas and again might be something you could do with others to ease the risk)

Would your current job allow you to step back in after a 2 or 3 year break if the shit hits the fan??
Would you and your fam be able to cope with starting from scratch if you lost everything (whatever everything means these days?)

Hippy/Camper van stuff is short term.. would be good fun and a great adventure for the fam though :0)
(and you could be renting your property while you do it to get a taste for something different)

Short term culture travel is possible, taking the family for new experiences for a month (can be as cheap and easy as living in Scotland or as hard as going to NZ)

Loads of alternatives out there but battling against the 'must have' culture is very tough. (You and your missus with your ambitious nature can make it work)
Keep day dreaming and don't give up!! The answers will come and they will be the right ones.. When feeling down and fed up just remember 'you can do it'

start small. I go to a 4 day week from next week to look after my 10 month old one day a week.

20% paycut (more like 15% after you take into account taxes etc) in exchange for 40-50 extra days a year. Not a bad deal I'd say.

Budget gets a bit tighter but in reality means less shiny bike bits and foreign holidays will have to wait.

I had a similar mindset to you, and without wanting to sound critical, if you yourself read back your own posts in this thread you do sound very much like you are waiting for someone to say 'this is the solution, this is how you do it and it will work immediately'.

There is no magic solution, you get out what you put in at the end of the day. But I, like you, wallowed for ages and hated the notion I was living to work for little reward. I'd got myself in a position whereby my outgoings were crippling and any money I had left over I just spent on stuff with some vague notion that it would make me happy. It was my reward for having what seemed like a miserable life.

I ended up with more tat that need financing to maintain and even less money. It took a few years before I decided that in order to change things and have what I believed could be a better life. I sold all the crap I'd accumulated, cancelled things I didn't need and stopped buying stuff for the sake of it. Within a few months of not spending I'd put away a decent amount of cash and so looked at what I wanted to do that would mean less time sitting in an office, more time at home an more time doing what I wanted to do.

I'd managed to bring down my outgoings drastically to a point where I didn't need the sort of income I was generating so was safe in the knowledge that I could quit my job and do something part time or something with a lower income but more enjoyable.

So, I used some of the money I saved up to buy some bikes/kit/training and started an after school bike skills class for kids. It was a long process to get all the qualifications and training so I was in a position to train and provide a safe teaching environment etc but after a year at it it's starting to do quite well. I have a hardcore of schools who invite me weekly to offer fun cycling activities for their kids and I love what I do. I don't make a fortune and have to to do 3 days a week working in a Library (which I also enjoy).

Ultimately now I have an easy life. Very low stress, lots of time at home/out with wife/doing what I want to do. All very simple things. We don't have costly holidays/cars/toys/gadgets and gizmos but we have never been happier.

I enjoy the very simple things in life, don't need to spend a fortune on crap. I have a modest home with modest possessions but both I and my wife are happy because we both have time which we have realised is the most precious thing you really have.

In fact we now plan to downsize our home for something a little more quant, reducing our mortgage further.