[Closed] Taking your kids out of school during term time!!!!

yup. our kids have 100% attendance records and they still threatened us with it.
we made sure that the kids had all their work to take away and made sure that they completed the work.
they didn't fine us.

No point filling the form in IMO
They always refuse, its just a paper-chase

We got refused permission to take our lad out for the last day of summer term

how big is the fine?

The mrs (who works as a helper at the school) has had the form hidden in her handbag for the last coupla weeks like some kind of kid who's been sent home with a letter from the headmaster, I just said get it filled in, what can they do? I'd love to know the amount and how the apparent fine system works.

Double post 😕

i might just factor the fine into the cost of the holiday...and make sure my lads come back with amazing tans and speaking a foreign language 🙂

Fine??

Tell them to go boil their heads, or offset it against the fines you imposed when they failed to turn up for work last winter

I wonder how many parents would think holidays were more important than education if education was a privilege and not a right.

Sounds as though you are pretty diligent to ensure that your kids do not fall behind but there are plenty of folk out there who do not take the ongoing work with them so when they return the kids are behind the rest of the class and that means the teacher has to devote extra time to one child to the detriment of the other pupils. I know it costs more to holiday in scholl holiday periods but it is not like they have a shortage of time off.

I wonder how many parents would think holidays were more important than education if education was a privilege and not a right.

hang on I'll just fire up the delorean and find out

holidays

My brother relocated from Yorkshire to Cornwall last year and had to take his kids out of school on a couple of occasions before the move (seeing properties, checking schools).

He had no end of hassle getting the 'permission'.

To be fair the fine would still probably be far cheaper than the cost difference in the holiday!! Nearly £600 dearer to go next weekend! I'm afraid until they're doing "proper" exams this will continue.

What is this fine and how do they impose it?

They're my kids and I'll decide what's best for them. Eldest daughter just went to Cyprus with the wife for a family wedding, missing 5 days of school. I put a letter in, they could have objected if they liked, wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference. Probably going to go away next feb or march, and I'll probably have to do the same again, but the difference in price between term time and school holidays means it's a no brainer. They can throw whatever book at me they want.

I tell the school it's to give the other children time to catch up, they never do.

A friend of mine who's a headmaster said that it's largely a jumping though hoops exercise and they'd never really chase after parents of kids who normally had a good attendance record and weren't really going to be impacted. It's where kids are being taken out and already miss lots of school apparently.

But he did also say that it's very dependent on the specific school.

They're my kids and I'll decide what's best for them.

Is that what you would say to the hospital if they inconveniently decided one of your kids should be there because of illness?

Schools don't just come up with this stuff to inconvenience you you know? It may well be that you have every intention of making sure your kids get the education they need, but unfortunately lots of parents apparently don't give a toss, which is why it is a good thing for schools to forcefully remind people that taking their kids out of school is not something that should be done lightly.

So what happens to the money they charge in fines? How do they have the authority to charge fines?

We just ring the school up the day before to tell them. Never a problem. Perhaps my kids are a pain in the arse at school as well?

as my 6 year old tells me all they do is watch Phineas and Ferb at her Primary, i'm sure she can catch up, I suspect that coupled with her home viewing it could possibly be a PHD in the making.

I'm not sure anyone has ever been fined as a consequence of a "holiday" out of school during term time.

Parents knowing best is a funny concept though! That'll be because of the parenting course and proficiency test they took before having the sprog? The odd good parent with the best interests of the kids at heart taking kids out of school on a very rare basis are going to cop one of these letters because of maintaining a level playing field and treating everyone equally. There are significant numbers of ignorant and selfish parents who think of themselves before their kids who need this sort of warning to keep them in check to make them necessary.

IMO frequently planning family holidays that withdraw your child from term time schooling for no good reason is bad parenting. Just take cheaper holidays and get your life perspectives sorted.

They're my kids and I'll decide what's best for them.

I think the best thing for my kids is warm gravel for tea and the birch if they speak before being spoken to. How dare these so-called "authorities" deem to tell me any different.

if u dont like the school policy send em to a different school?

I might sue my mum for taking me out of school during term-time. I am sure I would have gone to Oxbridge and studied medicine if it wasn't for the annual two week jolly to Cornwall effecting my education.

M_F I know that you say this in jest, but I've seen similar happen too regularly. Kids (admittedly at the top of their schooling) that just never got back on top of their work and ultimately failed to get the grades they needed to go the uni they wanted. For some it can be the last straw. Same can be said for time off for ill health but one is self inflicted and the other bad luck.

There is also a particular brand of snotty middle class parent that are quick to point fingers at staff and schools for failing to support their kids in the right way(never child's fault) but only too quick to withdraw their kid so they can get a skiing trip in.

A work colleague got in trouble for taking her daughter to see a dying relative in hospital.

Convert - possibly true.

I was an average achiever and don't suppose for a minute my holidays effected me though.

Don't tell my mum though, I am serving her papers already...

My eldest is due to start 'proper' school in September.

From what I understand, if you want to take your child out of school during term time you're considered to be a disgusting low-life similar to a mass-murdering racist paedophile who hurts animals.

Somebody told me it's because missing school will damage a childs development. Or some such drivel.

Does anybody seriously believe that missing one or two weeks of school each year is really going to have a noticeable impact? ... seeing as they're already not at school for 12 weeks a year, plus 'in-service training days', plus other bank holidays...

Does anybody seriously believe that missing one or two weeks of school each year is really going to have a noticeable impact? ... seeing as they're already not at school for 12 weeks a year, plus 'in-service training days', plus other bank holidays..

But for those 12 weeks they are not missing out and falling behind.

What if that was the week they were taught something that is the base for lots of other things. For instance in maths what if that was the week they learnt the rules of algebra ( I know someone is going to say they don't do that any more) They now can't do anything that is built upon that.

Its a really competitive world out there and if your not already top of the class then surely you need all the help you can get.

damn this compulsory education, the parents deserve a skiing trip.

personally I would be pissed off if I was a parent of a child where the class is behind due to having to repeat stuff just because some parents cannot be inconvenienced by their child's schooling.

personally I would be happy if the fines were bigger, and enforced.

mastiles_fanylion - Member
I might sue my mum for taking me out of school during term-time. I am sure I would have gone to Oxbridge and studied medicine if it wasn't for the annual two week jolly to Cornwall effecting my education.

i doubt youd have gone to oxbridge but you might have learnt when to use affecting and effecting

Does anybody seriously believe that missing one or two weeks of school each year is really going to have a noticeable impact?

And what impact do you think it would have on the class as a whole if each child was away for 1 or 2 random weeks?

How do you think the teacher would keep track of who had covered what? How would the teacher cope with trying to bring thirty kids up to speed with the different bits they had missed out on?

What do you think the aggregate level of extra disruption in the class would be from all the kids asking extra questions and needing extra help because of bits they had missed out on?

I don't think anyone is really going to take action to stop a child occasionally being out of school, but taking your kid out isn't without consequences, for them or for the class as a whole.

Taking kids out of school to go on holiday simply because you can get the holiday cheaper during term time?

Don't you know that holidays are more expensive during the holiday breaks when you choose to have the kids?
Bloody inconsiderate conspiracy between the schools and the holiday companies if you ask me

Or

Holidays? You can afford holidays? You lucky lucky etc

i doubt youd have gone to oxbridge but you might have learnt when to use affecting and effecting

But whilst we are at it...

i doubt youd have gone to oxbridge but you might have learnt when to use affecting and effecting

[i]my parents destroyed what little chance I had in life[/i]

Can you sue your parents about their DNA?

Surely they'll just countersue your grandparents?

re: taking kids out of school to get a cheap holiday and then blaming the school for saying 'hang on, they're supposed to be here by law you know!' - it's not the fine that stings, it's the social services involvement.

It's nice to know that all those who are happy to regularly take their kids out "know what's best for their kids". Probably also goes along with "I'm alright jack, I'll do what I want and screw the rest of you". It can be a pain epsecially as the holiday costs are significant when you have to go during school holidays. Part of the price I suppose of having kids. But schools need to have some sort of structure and agreement with parents to try and ensure that most pupils are in school at the same time. There are plenty of holidays during the year and I would imagine it could get pretty frustrating to the teachers, and disruptive the whole class if kids are off willy nilly throughout term time. You may think your kids are only missing a few days / a week or so. Fair enough, but what if all the parents of all the other kids in the class thought the same as you - but took off on their holidays at different times? Although the implementation of these papers and fines looks like big brother how about taking a step back and looking at the bigger picture, try and understand why they are there and consider other people as well, not just yourselves.

ps. Not a teacher. And yes I have kids.

Does anybody seriously believe that missing one or two weeks of school each year is really going to have a noticeable impact? ... seeing as they're already not at school for 12 weeks a year, plus 'in-service training days', plus other bank holidays...

Well those two weeks constitute 5% of the actual term time, I'm going to say that it certainly has the potential to impact a childs schooling. Whether it actually will or not will depend on the individual but expecting schools to not take such absence seriously is foolish.

It's not the school saying they should be thee, it's the law. School's just doing what they have to.

If I still taught in primary, I'd love it if [i]every[/i] parent took their kids out for the last two weeks before the summer 🙂

At the local school, you have to fill a form out, but the policy is not to support the decision and record it as unauthorised absence. Some of the parents take the piss though.

hang on, they're supposed to be here by law you know

I thought the law was more like ........they should receive a "suitable full time education" and if in a school the attend regularly?
I didn't think letting them have a day off to do something else was [in itself] unlawful

If you take your kid away on holiday for 2 weeks the kid's supposed to become an idiot as they had no teaching over those days. If the kid was ill for a month they'd be a poor little darling.

Parents are also extremely unreliable judges of how intelligent their kids are, and how well they are doing with their schooling.

[i]a poor little darling. [/i]

[b]and[/b] an idiot.

the difference being that the latter wouldn't be the result of the parents trying to save £5 per person per day on a holiday.

What if the school were to close for a fortnight mid-term so that the teachers could take a cheap break, eh? 😉

No, I agree, nothing like a bit of quality family time. I remember when my lads were small, applying for 2 weeks' holiday either side of the Easter break. The school head was fine about it and suggested that instead of supplying homework (which we'd asked for), that my eldest (aged 7) compile a journal. We drove USA coast to coast (Baltimore to LA - told the kids we were going to Disneyland 😉 - via Moab of course 8) ) and the journal which Lucas made, complete with drawings and photographs, was put on display in the school on our return. Experiential learning at its very best.

5 pound per person per day my arse!! That on my limited education would amount to 20 pounds a day for us. In reality it's actually about 80 a day. The main thing that riled me about the issue was the little attempted threat on the form, since September I think both my kids have had about 3 or 4 days off each due to illness. Oh and id love to take them skiing/boarding but that's seriously expensive in the school hols!!

I think there is a lot of putting the cart before the horse going on here.

Maybe the complaints should be addressed at the holiday companies / airlines rather than at the schools?

Although it would also make life a bit easier for everyone if maybe schools could phase their holidays a bit more in different areas.

I think schools only get concerned over those who have an existing poor attendence record, if a child is otherwise attending then they'll pay little attention.

Parents are also extremely unreliable judges of how intelligent their kids are, and how well they are doing with their schooling

This is probably the most important thing so far on this thread. The number of times parents have approached me during term time incredulous as to how badly their child is doing academically becomes more regular with each year that passes. Usually there is the genetics argument ([i]"... but my husband is a surgeon and I'm a human rights lawyer; how could Tarquin possibly be behind...?"[/i]) or the accusation that 'the wrong crowd' have been leading their precious child astray, but more often than not you can count absences and falling behind academically as a key point.

I accept that for a minority of pupils, the social, cultural and educational benefits to visiting another country are worth it, but these are few and far between. I don't think that teachers should have to assist individual learning at the cost of dragging a full class back academically just because they went away. And that really is what happens. And honestly, how many of you as parents have sat in on catch-up classes after holidays in order to check the progress of you children/see how far they are behind? Very few, I imagine.

I understand the cost issue; as a teacher, I get hit with exactly the same financial handicap - but there is too much evidence to suggest that children taken out of school during term time are negatively affected academically to make light of it.

What annoys me as a teacher is when the parents demand 2 weeks worth of work off you so little Jimmy doesnt fall behind, as has been said you know whats best for him you teach him, because being given some pages out of a book and told to get on with it is all I do in lessons anyway. I spend the rest of my time sitting on my arse drinking coffee.

Can we also have a promise that the complainers here wont be complaining when I go on strike next year?

A.A, I felt exactly that. "We are going on holiday during school term, could you set up two weeks work for my child which they will not do anyway?" (notice no please or thank you) A wee thought, jobs market is tough yes? So when a prospective employer gets to see your child's attendance record and they see UNA (unauthorised abs) for a week.I suppose that will be the schools fault for not asking in August when you may feel like taking the kids out?
Still as A.A said, home schooling next year for all of you. Maybe you could time your holiday for then?

Slightly controversial, but if you can't go on holiday during the school holiday, maybe an option would be not to go away on holiday for a year.

but there is too much evidence to suggest that children taken out of school during term time are negatively affected academically to make light of it.

Are the kids similarly negatively affected if the school has to close for a couple of weeks for - say - cold weather?
I remember the teachers on here last Winter - when some schools closed for a while - claiming that a bit of extra holiday playing in the snow would be good for them [the kids, that is]

really uplink? sure your memories are correct?

uplink - I'd be interested to read those quotes you are going to unearth to back that up too.

However, you are not really getting the crux of the issue. If the whole class makes progress on a topic except Little Uplink (if such an incarnation exists) because is was in Alicante, either he/she will remain confuddled about the area and all subsequent teaching based on that knowledge or teacher time will be taken up with LU helping them to catch up at the expense of the rest of the class. If the whole class/school miss school the teachers are able to rearrange the whole taught syllabus around the available time.

The head teacher at our kid's school is usually very cool about it. We have asked once and got the OK, then when we asked again got a 'no'. I approached the head teacher and she quietly told me it's no problem at all, kids usually get a lot out of traveling because it's an education in itself and to enjoy ourselves. We asked for homework and was told not to worry but to do a little project with them if we want to which we did.

I think people sometimes get themselves unnecessarily worked up about it all.

BTW - school attendance certificate means NOTHING in relation to a career. I have a 12yr school attendance certificate that has never ever done me any good at all ever. I have always got my jobs based on qualifications and good interview skills. Teaching your child to connect with people will do them a hell of a lot more good than making sure they attend every single day.

And yes, agreed, our school was closed for nearly 2 weeks with the snow. We live 300 yards from the school and we can easily walk there which we did most days to get to the park for some snow ball fights.

I got taken out for a week or two most years when I was a kid, it didn't do any harm. Its only an issue because of the rise in competitive parenting and schools feeling entitled to dictate to parents. I'll take my kids out for the legal maximum if I feel like it.

uplink - I'd be interested to read those quotes you are going to unearth to back that up too.

Really? - no, I don't want to spend time in a TJ stylee doing that

But as I said earlier in this thread
We were refused absence for 1 day, the last day of summer term - the reason given? that he would miss vital lessons

This is the day that they do no work and go home straight after lunch

How can they refuse if you're entitled to 2 weeks?

I got taken out for a week or two most years when I was a kid, it didn't do any harm.

Its only an issue because of the rise in competitive parenting and schools feeling entitled to dictate to parents.

I'll take my kids out for the legal maximum if I feel like it.

If you don't want the structured format of traditional school education you can always opt out of that (that is something that is done long term not ad hoc) and educate your kids yourself, having convinced the local authority that they will receive suitable education.

TBH if you think the EWO after all these cuts are going to target a nice family who took a week out to go on holiday you are very much mistaken.
It was pretty hard to get them to get them to act when the kids had 70% non attendence IME have you any idea how many kids that actually is 😯
It is very disruptive for the teachers and they have my symapthy but yes I would do it and nothing will ever happen about it ever

My kids school gives tow weeks this half term so you can have the cheap week when all other schools are back and this works very well.

I have no problem with parents taking kids out during term time, so long as parents have no problem with their children falling behind. If you're confident that your child can catch up through home tutoring, then do it.

If the whole class/school miss school the teachers are able to rearrange the whole taught syllabus around the available time.

Exactly. And with the greatest of respect, don't bore me with horse-shit about teachers enjoying the time off due to snow; take that up with the SMT and the governors. If I had my way, every bastard would be in regardless of the weather conditions.

I remember the teachers on here last Winter - when some schools closed for a while - claiming that a bit of extra holiday playing in the snow would be good for them

Generalisation. Good work. Well thought out. 🙄

Generalisation. Good work. Well thought out.

........... and you weren't generalising about parents motives? 🙄

anyway, care to comment on my experience of being refused 1 days absence?

My problem is that parents taking kids out of class are creating an impression with them that their education falls lower down the list of priorities than saving a few bob on the trip to florida/magaluf etc. This will impact on the level of effort the kid puts into his/her studies and the level of achievement/performance in class.

If parents are comfortable with this then by all means take your kids out of class but don't complain when the inevitable happens.

We go to glastonbury every year as a family, have done since they was born, I couldn't care less what school say they learn more there on a week than any school could teach em

I would say it taught me that it was alright to go and have a bit of fun as long as you made sure you got your work done.

Maybe you are training your kid up to be a joyless clockwatcher. Its worth bearing in mind.

uplink - your 1 day absence - i think you are taking it the wrong way (assuming your school works like ours does). You asked to remove your child from school to take them on holiday. The policy says "holiday = unauthorised absence" therefore thats what you were told. Why you got the response you did about missing important schooling when you know there is very little formal education likely (although I note that our school does actually teach on the last day) but there are of course objectionable people in most lines of work.

I blame the world.

and you weren't generalising about parents motives?

No. I wasn't. At all. I questioned the sensibilities of such a decision.

anyway, care to comment on my experience of being refused 1 days absence?

No. Why would I? I have no idea of the situation. Is your child failing? Are they behind on their literacy, numeracy and oracy level predictors? Has your child been excluded? Is your child a trouble maker? Have you taken your child out of school before now, and has it had a detrimental effect on their schooling? Have you agreed to adhere to the schools policy of attendance?

By all means ask for an opinion, but give all the variables first so that you can ensure an impartial and considered answer.

Take cheaper holidays or get a proper job that pays enough to take them on holiday when it suits you as opposed to the holiday company.

I have a proper job you patronising dick, I must however up my middle classness and go on holidays which we can't afford, but fund them by topping up the mortgage perhaps. Must keep up with the jones' eh 😉

[i]as the holiday costs are significant when you have to go during school holidays[/i]

nobody [i]has[/i] to take holidays you know

[i]Although it would also make life a bit easier for everyone if maybe schools could phase their holidays a bit more in different areas.[/i]

that's a pain in the a*** for the parents trying to juggle the extra childcare duties.

Leeds & Bradford, neighbouring authorities, tried that at easter this year. If you lived deep within one or the other district, not a problem, but if you lived in say Baildon where I live, or just up the hill a couple of miles in Menston (Bradford) or its immediate neighbour Guiseley (Leeds), you could have little uns in primary school in Bradford district and bigger uns in high school in Leeds district.

First 2 weeks, Leeds are off so you have to sort childcare for the ones in high school, then Leeds go back and bingo, now Bradford are off and so you have to sort [i]more[/i] childcare for the primary kids. That did not go down well

Surely just send little Timmy to school with an air pistol, half a bottle of gin and some magic mushy tea.

Instant suspension = sanctioned holiday 🙂

"I have a proper job you patronising dick,"

Well.....obviously you don't or you would not be on here whinging and whining about it would you?

When I left school it was fairly apparent that I'd need a job that paid well to meet all my and my potential family's needs,interests and desires. So I made sure that I got one. I have no interest in people's perceptions of what my class may or may not be, nor do I care what the Jones may or may not own 🙂

Ringo - Member

We go to glastonbury every year as a family, have done since they was born, I couldn't care less what school say they learn more there on a week than any school could teach em

Holidays where kids go travelling and experience other cultures are ok in my eyes (attendance officer/assistant head of year in a large secondary school) as long as the kid has an otherwise (95%+) attendance level. If its a chav family holiday to magaluf for little shane and he is an 80% attendance kid then its well out of order.

You lot keep taking your kids out of school for your cheaper trips to Majorca. Less competition for Ms TT when she goes through a full schooling = win for my child. 😀

What TT said.

Sorry at what point did I moan about my job? I moaned about the veiled threat on the form and about the cost difference. I'm sure the kids won't miss too much and a good dose of activity and sea air is good for anyone of any age anytime in my book!

such as??????
Holidays where kids go travelling and experience other cultures are ok in my eyes (attendance officer/assistant head of year in a large secondary school) as long as the kid has an otherwise (95%+) attendance level. If its a chav family holiday to magaluf for little shane and he is an 80% attendance kid then its well out of order

Bang on. This is my exact point.

I think its an interesting comparison between the priorities of educationalists and parents. I get tired of the constant negativity towards teachers and schools regarding holidays, standards, rules etc. Personally, if parents think they can do a better job of educating their children, I'd fully support them withdrawing their children and home-teaching.