[Closed] Taking children out of school in term time

Are the schools legally able to enforce the fines?

Yes: http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/pupilsupport/behaviour/attendance/a00223868/regulations-amendments (though it's not the school, it's the local authority.)

Yes: http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/pupilsupport/behaviour/attendance/a00223868/regulations-amendments (though it's not the school, it's the local authority.)

Ah thanks, I never realized that! However £60 is hardly a deterrent if you could save a few £hundred from your family holiday is it? If they made the fine £500 I bet most people would think twice...

I think just making them think twice is all they're after. If your holiday is more important than your child's education, you're scoobied anyway.

Always sought school's permission in the past and it was always granted. Won't be asking this year.

I've just started dating a teacher, I thought about going away for half term as obviously she can't get time off any other time

Prices are ridiculous, I mean effing ridiculous. Plus as a 'single man' with no kids (thank god!) all the parents at work have booked all the holidays up. So even If I could afford to pay the price for a holiday that a week before or 2 weeks after is 4 times cheaper, I can't get the time off anyway.

So if I can't get half term holidays off, and she can't get term time off, when can we go away? Just once a year in summer?

Reason 76253729 not to have children. And reason 1 not to date a teacher

Or, people who make changes to their lifestyles in response to having kids?

But people are also under presure to stay at work, it is the modern way. It is not an optioin for a lot of people to lose an income and society expects two parents to work. I'll admit that the issue is clouded by selfish people wanting cheap holidays though.

Society is changing but education is stuck in the past with practices based on historical religious holidays and a requirement for children to help bring in the harvest. These practices are now re-infoced by well off middle class teachers who can afford to pay a premium for holidays in the summer and who like their long holidays.

The only teachers I see foregoing holidays due to the costs of school holidays are those who like skiing as although teachers are paid well enough to go on holiday in the summer they aren't paid so well that Feb half term in the Alps is possible.

[i]At least they would have their chips on opposite shoulders [/i]

I dunno, you'd need to ask someone from Yorkshire or Lancashire.

Society is changing but education is stuck in the past with practices based on historical religious holidays and a requirement for children to help bring in the harvest. These practices are now re-infoced by well off middle class teachers who can afford to pay a premium for holidays in the summer and who like their long holidays.
The only teachers I see foregoing holidays due to the costs of school holidays are those who like skiing as although teachers are paid well enough to go on holiday in the summer they aren't paid so well that Feb half term in the Alps is possible.

2/10 Please try harder.

selfish people wanting cheap holidays though.

Not selfish, and not wanting a cheap holiday. Just wanting a normal priced holiday without holiday companies bending you over and hoiking your thong aside

Not selfish, and not wanting a cheap holiday. Just wanting a normal priced holiday without holiday companies bending you over and hoiking your thong aside

See my post above about the real cost of holidays. You want a discount one.

Society is changing but education is stuck in the past with practices based on historical religious holidays and a requirement for children to help bring in the harvest.

The long summer break was linked to the summer closure of the law courts, and the similar closure of Parliament. It had nothing to do with harvests, as we had a pretty urbanised population by the time formal schooling became widespread.

These practices are now re-infoced by well off middle class teachers who can afford to pay a premium for holidays in the summer and who like their long holidays.

As stated above, teachers wouldn't be averse to changing around the holidays, including shortening the summer break. Switching to five, more equal terms is/has been trialled in some areas.

Of course, a shorter summer break would make many of the problems people having organising holidays in the summer even worse...

The long summer break was linked to the summer closure of the law courts, and the similar closure of Parliament. It had nothing to do with harvests, as we had a pretty urbanised population by the time formal schooling became widespread.

Either way it's historical and not based on the practicalities of modern life.

Teaching as a profession is largely stuck in the past and this is just one example, restistance to evidence based education being another.

I don't have kids, don't want kids (neither does the mrs) so all that will happen is the price will go up for everyone across the board.

I take my holidays outside of school holiday so I don't have to listen to the little F*****S ruining MY holiday whilst I'm away.

an before someone calls me selfish - it's no more selfish than you wanting to take your scrotey sproggs to a far off place on the cheap!

If you're not careful, all the children will dance around your window singing Sourpuss and Grumpyface.

Dont think this thread was about opinions on "kids".
For those of you who dont have kids and feel the need to make derogative comments about them; you were one once.
Perhaps you should get your bike out and go play in the woods.

restistance to evidence based education being another.

Can you tell me who is actually suggesting any educational changes based on evidence? It certainly isn't the current education minister!

Perhaps you should get your bike out and go play in the woods.

Maybe, but quietly. Wouldn't want any noise disturbing the other people who might be enjoying the countryside.

But the thread is about "kids". The inflated holiday prices in school holiday are not a new issue. They have been around since people were given time off under the holiday with pay act.

So, if you don't want to pay inflated holiday prices then you shouldn't have kids.
It's like moving house and living next to an airfield/airport and then complaining that the aeroplanes are making a noise.

You chose the situation, stop f***ing moaning about it!

Teaching as a profession is largely stuck in the past and this is just one example, restistance to evidence based education being another.

Got any examples?

Also chose to take my children out of school in term time, something my wife and i agreed on well before we had kids. Not really moaning about it, as it's a choice we made. Just dont agree with the current policy.

I'll take my kids out of school if I want, and if I get fined, then so be it, I'll pay it.

I reckon I'm a pretty good judge of what will cause a long term negative effect to their education and what wont. I doubt I'd take them out for a whole week at a time, or during their GCSE/Alevel years, but the odd day here and there is probably going to be insignificant.

I'll bet you're sh!t hot at working out when the car needs a service, or when the gas fire needs a clean, or how to do your tax returns or represent yourself in court, too.

Or do you rely more on the advice of trained, experienced professionals for them?

Why would I take my car to a garage for a service or talk to an accountant about my tax return - when I can do them myself? 😯

Rather odd examples...

No examples then jfletch?

I'll bet you're sh!t hot at working out when the car needs a service, or when the gas fire needs a clean, or how to do your tax returns or represent yourself in court, too.

yep, I have done all of those, and I won when I represented myself in court.

By the way what does that have to do with whether I take the kids out of school?

Judging by how many people I know that think their kids are "quite advanced" in school and "y'know, leaving the others behind, she's very smart don't you know", when in fact, they're just like any other kid, it seems parents are often the worst at judging what will and won't affect their kids' educations.

Well, that hasn't worked too well! The plan was to illustrate how you rely on experts to guide you through the varied minefields of life that require professional insight, but sinxe you know everything about everything, my plan has been foiled. 🙁

if their overall attendance is excellent (notwithstanding illness) then the schools should be flexible if the leave period doesn't impact on key elements of the year / curriculum.

Don't school grants get based on attendance at certain parts of the year? Obviously head teachers want all bums on seats during those periods.

Alternatively you could change religion as you can take religious holidays off without penalty.

And do the rules apply to academy schools who have opted out of the normal frameworks?? Cant see how they can enforce much if they have opted out of Local Authority control.

Usual stuff - apply common sense and rationality. If there is a genuinely important family event etc meaning you have to miss a few term days then you go. If you get fined then just take it on the chin. I hardly think that you will be upset by that when looking back on your life but you may well be upset about missing something like a large family event or doing something that bonds your family or is just plain old fashioned fun.

screw gove and all his policies. If he or any of his team had been in the profession before being an MP / in government then you may be able to take him a bit more seriously but the guy is a chump. And ugly.

Some people are thick. Maybe they missed some school.
holidays are not more expensive during the schools holiday periods, they are cheaper when no one wants them.
As a teacher I completely agree that at times an educational holiday is a benefit but I dare bet that most aren't. It will be Disney land or some some beach with mum and dad getting pissed.

Taking children out of school in term time ... What do you lot reckon?

Errmm ... do what they like after all they are the parents of the children, just don't blame the schools or others for their children poor grades if they are absence from school too often.

You cannot expect everyone to achieve top grades otherwise who are going to grow up doing the shitty jobs? hhhhmmm ...

My parents live in Spain, only home not second home before you paint yourselves a picture of wealth. We used to take our 2 out of school for two days each year to go and visit their grandparents and experience their life. They live I the countryside in a little village where very little English is spoken, the experience I feel is enriching for the children and for the family as a whole.

This year they won't be going. They are gutted, we are gutted, but that's what the government now says is right. They will still see their grandparents as we will fly them over here as two flights are manageable but four aren't. They will however miss out on the local Spanish folk making a fuss over them and teaching them bits of Spanish, they will miss out on the local wolf park where the cubs they saw last year will have grown. They won't get to see the massive fossils at torcal, but hey, they will get to do free play and times tables the same as they do every other day.

I'm following the rules but I am bitter.

Why follow the rules so easily. Approach the school with same story. If they say no, then say fine me.
I wouldn't so easily back down.

Make sure there's one of these stuck to the plane.
Make sure teachers (and everyone else) knows there's one of these stuck to the plane
Everyone knows that these let you do anything
[img] [/img]

bending you over and hoiking your thong aside

Ooh that got me quite excited ...

As a teacher I completely agree that at times an educational holiday is a benefit but I dare bet that most aren't. It will be Disney land or some some beach with mum and dad getting pissed.

🙂

What pisses me off is when Mummy and Daddy then come to a parents evening to discuss what "WE" can do about junior's under-performance in the exam that occurred just weeks after the unauthorised absence and for which zero preparation happened while he/she was away.

What really really pisses me off is when little jimmy comes to see you because he's worried about what he's going to miss when he goes on a holiday he doesnt want to go on anyway.

Tell Jimmy that on that week you'll be teaching children through the magic of XBOX team wars, driving round the playground in the headmasters car and drinking cider.

samuri - Member
Tell Jimmy that on that week you'll be teaching children through the magic of XBOX team wars, driving round the playground in the headmasters car and drinking cider.

Posted 1 hour ago # Report-Post

Same old same old at my school.

Parents should be allowed to decide for themselves obviously!

You clearly havent met many parents!!

Schools could have parents evenings, careers evenings, discusssions on next years options, deliver reports etc on the final days of term. Then leave it up to the parents to decide!!!

I'm mixed on this. When I was in high school. my mum used to take me on her business trips sometimes, which involved days out of school. I definitely learned more from going to various different countries (Canada, Saudi Arabia, Hong Kong, for example)than I did in school. I think travel is good for kids, and can broaden horizons etc. If a week or so out of school is going to ruin a kid's education, I'd say it's a pretty crap education if they'll forget everything they're taught in a week.

From the POV of a childfree adult though, I want to be able to go on holiday at the times when children are in school, and don't want to encounter hordes of brats running around like crack monkeys. I'd actually rather the prices were LOWER in the school holidays, so that the families all go en masse, and I don't end up like last year, going on holiday during term time and then having the famblee from hell in the next door apartment.

@anagallis. I agree with your point that the education system and teaching standards are poor in this country but to believe they are so bad an average parent can't decide for themselves whether to take a family holiday or not is very worrying.
I think you and the Government should give teachers a bit more respect than that.

Thats an odd point of view you should try visiting the real world a little more often. It also makes no sense. Its parenting thats poor and that view fits your odd narrative better.

@theocb

I agree with your point that the education system and teaching standards are poor in this country

I'm not sure what you base this on, but come and work in a primary or secondary school for a few weeks - it might change your mind? I've been in education 16 years and standards of teaching are better now than ever. I don't necessarily think overall 'education' is better though, as it has become so focussed on exams at the expense of other skills.

I think he just based it on a poor attempt at a troll.

maybe, just maybe, unauthorised absence for a holiday = forfeit of a place at that school.
Forget fines, you just lose your place.
But you still get a cheaper holiday.

I can't be bothered to read through all of this again, but would I be the first person - as a parent of two children in school - to point out that we just kind of accepted that having kids may affect our ability to have cheap holidays?

I'm not sure if the current appropriate terminology to sum up my position is "PTFU" or "suck it up" 🙄

I live in east London they are very strict with the policy here due to the ethnic diversity in LDN there started to be a serious problem with family visits to Poland Ukraine Russia ****stan India Bangladesh Saudi etc etc. you get the idea so the education authority had to take serious approach also school places are a premium here

Actually on holiday now in lakes with my 4 kids I have to have them back by Monday when term starts that's how it works.

Possibly the people most at risk from loads of unauthorised absences are kids not keeping up. The extra guidance from the teacher they might otherwise have had could be consumed by ensuring absent pupils were up to speed.

I have to be honest, it's that aspect that grates on me a little.

I obviously need to work on how to word a post correctly to gain a reaction. We seem to have skipped over the emotional family aspect and moved straight back on to people looking for cheap holidays. It's not all about that you know.

@angallis. You seem to be of the opinion that most parents cannot choose a sensible time for a family holiday without threat of fines or prison, this is hardly a rip roaring endorsement of the education system.

What could be the answer to this all encompassing bad parenting that you speak of?

I will go with education. You?

Agreed. The kids still in education should be telling their parents not to be so ****ing selfish. Not a bad plan...

@angallis. You seem to be of the opinion that most parents cannot choose a sensible time for a family holiday without threat of fines or prison, this is hardly a rip roaring endorsement of the education system.

My education must be crap because this doesnt make sense to me.
What I'm saying is that a significant minority of parents are completeidiots and cannot be trusted to do anything much right. Legisalation accounts for this and in doing so makes it hard to differentiate the lovely. singletrackworld parents and their educational absences from school.

I don't mind sticking to the rules provided it works both ways.

Year 7 "Paris" school trip (in term time) next year is 3 days, which includes 2 x visits to Euro-Disney plus another excursion to a water park......

Then with 3 weeks notice before October half term they spring an outdoor pursuits day for the whole of year 7 on the final Friday, including returning to school later than normal closure. So any parents that had booked holiday travel plans for the Friday evening were a bit stuffed.

Mick, you need to get to grips with the fact that schools belive that one parent works and the other sits at home waiting for the school to text them and tell them when the next school trip, head lice outbreak, teacher training day, sports day morning/mid afternoon is. Once you understand that and one of you gives up your job then all will fall into place.