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Even at the height of The Troubles we never saw anything like the child killing that's just happened.
How do you manage to find more than one sick bastard capable of doing such acts? Have they kept back a group of psychopaths for such an occasion? Is it possible that you or I could be turned by some circumstances into doing similar?
PS Charles Taylor, let's hope his cell isn't too comfy.
The UN is toothless, should be no messing around, these tyrants need to go.
Its scary and depressing, the human race just keeps producing these scumbags. Just watched that Panorama on football racism in Poland and Ukraine. 14 year olds doing Nazi salutes and training for a race war.
Re:the UN - You only get a resolution through the Security Council with the approval of the Chinese Communist Party and the Russian politburo.
There are no easy options in Syria but the UN has long lost its moral authority.
Listening to Radio 2 at the moment - it really hurts to hear what has happned. I think of my children and how much I love them - I'm just lost for words - sorry!
What tyger said.
It's easy to say go in and enforce a regime change but look at post-war Iraq or even Libya. There are no easy answers.
Regardless of politics, how does a human being do such things? Can someone act like a fox and just go into a blood frenzy?
In the cold light of day are the people responsible filled with remorse looking at their own kids,or having a beer patting each other on the back?
A sh.t day.
The UN is toothless, should be no messing around, these tyrants need to go.
I'm assuming that you hold President Assad responsible for the execution of the children ?
Well I guess it's possible although you would need to consider the point of doing it. I'm struggling to believe that Assad would come the conclusion that western governments weren't sufficiently hostile towards him, and that the opposition lacked sufficient propaganda against him, and what was really needed was for him to do something, without any military purpose, which was so unbelievably horrendous that it would really give cause to hate him.
And apparently Assad wasn't satisfied with just killing children by shooting them, presumably that might have suggested possible accidental death caused by crossfire, so to show the world just how evil he is, and why they should be so determined to get rid of him, he made certain that the children had their throats slit thereby removing any doubt that they hadn't been executed in cold blood.
All possible as I say, but it does question how someone so unbelievably and breathtakingly stupid ever managed to become such a skilled eye specialist or rule a country for over 10 years.
I also find it somewhat confusing that apparently government forces shelled the al-Houla region of Homs both before and after the executions - why would they shell an area which they control ? Although we are are told that they don't control it - even though they can arrange for the execution of over a 100 people including children 😕
I have no idea who was responsible for the cold blooded execution of over a 100 people in al-Houla - it might well have been supporters of Assad, but how would I know ? Or how would anyone else know ? I think the UN should investigate and find out, although rather bizarrely they don't seem to think they are up for the job
[url= http://reportergary.com/2012/05/un-not-investigating-syrian-massacre/ ]UN not investigating Syrian massacre[/url]
[i]"I don’t think that…we can launch into full scale investigation simply because these military observers do not have forensic experts.” he told a press conference. “ But they [UN observers] can report on what they see"[/i]
If the UN lacks the 'forensic expertise' to investigate who was responsible then as sure as hell so do I. I just hope that it wasn't a political decision by the UN who thought that leaving it to [i]speculation[/i] would be more expedient.
The cold blooded execution of children by having their throats cuts is an unforgivable crime even under the most horrendous conditions of war. I really can't think of anything more important than at least attempting to establish who was responsible and holding them accountable for their crimes.
I think Ernie raises reasonable concerns over jumping to conclusions on who did what.
The veracity of claims of 'massacres' in the middle east has long been questionable, and Gaza saw some very, very shady reporting that was at best carefully stage managed, and at worst falsified.
Agree with a lot of ernies points.
I really think with the recent "executions" that someone else has had a hand in this.
Excellent post there Ernie. Good points well put.
Didn't buy a paper this morning because of the pictures of children on them. That is awful,just awful.
Well, according to eye-witnesses reported in today's "Times", the murderers were the "Shabiha", a group of state-sponsored licensed thugs who go into these towns after the army shelling and commit said atrocities.
Or you could believe the Syrian Government story that the murders were committed by the rebels in an attempt to besmirch the innocent, "armed gangs"-fighting Syrian Army, if you prefer...
As for "All possible as I say, but it does question how someone so unbelievably and breathtakingly stupid ever managed to become such a skilled eye specialist or rule a country for over 10 years." - he (like his wife) are subject to the will of their Alawite clan and immediate relatives.
Ass-hat is a weak-willed figurehead under remote control, not a free agent.
Presumably, the television film of small bodies lined up in shrouds with grieving survivors around them and a UN observer present were genuine.
What's your point, caller?
Blimey, I am in total agreement with Ernie again!
We (all members of the UN) have reputation for failing in humanitarian policing in situations such as this - The Balkans & Rwanda are just two to add to our failings in Afghanistan and Iraq.
I have a sinking feeling that Assad may not be the convenient evil arch villain that the media are suggesting, there is a very powerful military legacy from his father that sits behind (around) him.
From a parental perspective I cannot even begin to understand how anyone can visit such atrocities on children, or any fellow human being for that matter. There is nothing of which I can conceive that would be sufficiently painful for sufficient a length of time that I would inflict upon those individuals.
Having now seen many horrifying photos of dead kids from two massacres in Syria, I am deeply disturbed that many look like the murderers have put their firearm barrels under the kids heads and fired in an attempt (most successful) to blow the kids skulls apart and possibly gain extra sickening images to either create fear in the populace or influence foreign governments stressing over whether they should do anything.
http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/searing-grief-houlas-survivors/1739
Over the next three hours I will deliberately ask him the same question to see if his story alters in any detail. It does not. He is willing to be interviewed and identified on camera. But to protect him we do not do this. Channel 4 News knows his name and full identity.He describes in detail the world has not heard before what happened on Friday. He matters because over the next five hours we spend in Houla, scores of people will corroborate his story in various details.
He describes how there was intense shelling of the ground for several hours. After that the Shabiya – armed militia – entered the town from the southern to south western direction. He says there were around 100 of them dressed in military uniforms. They approached Dam Road which connects the large reservoir to the Houla villages. He says – and all agree – these men were Shia and Alawite who had come from specific Shia/Alawite villages to the south and west of Houla.
From the above link :
He says to us: “They have slaughtered us, they have killed us. When this is all over we will be victorious. And we will go there. And we will find them out and we will slaughter them and we will kill them. We will kill their men, women and children as they killed our men, women and children.”
I don't know if there's any reason to doubt those intentions, so more children will be slaughtered in cold blood given the opportunity then. Truly grim.
I wonder how the villagers of Kabu and Felleh came to be filled with so much hatred that, not just one or two deranged individuals, but apparently about a 100 of them, felt able to murder children in cold blood. No sane person can spontaneously do that.
It seems to me an escalating cycle of hatred feeding hatred. It really is time pressure was put on [i]all[/i] sides in this totally out of control situation.
BTW I find it strange how opposition forces in Houla can apparently stop Syrian army, which we are constantly told is highly trained and very well equipped, from entering Houla, and yet presumably very lightly armed irregulars from nearby villages can walk in and execute over a hundred people. And I'm struggling to believe that the Syrian government wouldn't want to control as much territory as quickly as possible so that the conflict comes to a rapid conclusion - with every day that passes the possibility of foreign intervention increases, however unlikely it might be.
I'm certainly not defending Assad and his cronies but they probably genuinely believe the act was perpetrated by "terrorist gangs". The regime in Syria is so remote from reality and so surrounded by sycophants and parasites that they exist in an unreal world of smug self-congratulation being fed misinformation by those who are benefiting from their regime. Conveniently there is actually quite a large tribal group in Syria who love the Assads and support them so it's easy for them to claim they are popular.
In fact I've just heard an excellent report on R4 from a BBC reporter who explained that, in his opinion, the massacre was carried out by the so-called "ghost" brigade of government forces against a certain clan in an attempt to stir up sectarian violence between villages and clans.
There's an awful amount of supposition in this thread.
Sorry Ernie, I don't agree.
I do agree with Globalti that he has probably deluded himself into believeing in what he says but ultimately he is the only person who can stop this. Assad is a war criminal plain and simple.
The way the children were killed can only have been sone by sectarian violence. It is inconceivable this was done by the rebels.
The UN really needs to sort iteslf out and send in an armed peace keeping force.
Yes its not as simple as Libya but the world cannot sit back and watch this happen. The actions of the Chinese and Russia are shameful and will only perpetuate the situation.
Sorry Ernie, I don't agree.
No need to apologise although what you specifically disagree with would be useful. Like most people the only information I have available concerning Syria is what is provided by the media. The media has a tendency to expect people to form strong opinions based on the information which they provide. I have no problem with that, specially in the case of Houla where an unforgivable crime should quite rightly be condemned and its perpetrators held accountable.
But I do expect the media to provide the information based on some sort of logic and not simply ignore huge inconvenient gaps of information. I'm not the type of person who just accepts stuff just because the media, often with its very partisan agenda, "says so", and I would like to think most other people take/should take a simular attitude. The Houla massacre was a horrendous crime and imo it is particularly important that precise details of the crime should be established - not sloppy and lazy innuendos.
So if the media expects me to believe that Assad was directly responsible for the Houla massacre, as they did in the first days after it occurred, then they need to explain how this would help Assad in achieving his objectives when it is so clearly damaging to him - specially in the light of the obvious deliberate execution of children.
Also it would be useful to know, since it is now claimed that the massacre was carried out by villagers from a couple of villages about 3 miles away, how these lightly armed irregulars managed to walk into Houla and carry out a cold blooded massacre. How many of the irregulars were killed in the battle ? [i]Where are their bodies[/i] ? Was there no resistance ? Why not ? Is this area controlled by opposition forces or not ? If it isn't, then why hasn't the Syrian army, which we are told is a particular well trained, well equipped, and effective, taken control of the area ? Don't they want to take control ? Why not ? Does Assad want to drag out this conflict for as long as possible ? Why ?
All perfectly reasonable questions which our media somehow feels there is absolutely no need to answer - why ? And I'm sure there are perfectly reasonable answers to all of those questions, I just want to hear them instead of being expected to come to a judgment based on an array of baffling, contradictory, and illogical, claims. Is it really too much to ask for ? They only need to dedicate a few column inches to answering those simple questions. But perhaps they just don't know the answer, which is fair enough - but they can't expect me to sit in judgement based on baffling, contradictory, and illogical information.
And just to emphasis how baffling and contradictory the information we are given by our media is Frodo, you appear to have to the conclusion that Assad "is the only person who can stop this. Assad is a war criminal plain and simple". Whilst Woppit thinks Assad "is a weak-willed figurehead under remote control, not a free agent", you can't both be right. Although I think most people would struggle to believe that Assad has a firm grip of the situation in Syria, that after all appears to be the root cause of his current problems.
In the same way as Mugabe is a convenient hate-figure. In Zimbabwe, the Generals are in control.
In Syria, the Assad family rule. The liberalisation that Bashir and his wife wanted to introduce was anathema to them. Their loyalty is to the clan (Alawite). It is they who control the political situation, the levers of power and the Syrian Army.