[Closed] Sydney hostage crisis

Sounds like it's getting very serious with more evacuations and closed air space
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-15/hostages-sydney-cafe-martin-place-police-operation/5967232

Let the wanton speculation commence!

Coincides well with the announcement of more troops to combat IS don't you think?

Also fits in quite nicely to soften blow of CIA torture report.

Wonder how many other hostage situations there have been in the world over the past fortnight without such intense media focus?

Aw crap. Walked past there on the way home last night.

The chap has said he has "devices" elsewhere, and will detonate them if he doesn't get to talk to Abbot live on the radio. Opera-house has been evacuated (as a precaution).

Well.... there goes the Sydney "bubble" 🙁

JHJ: more likely to be because there have been charges brought (last night) against some of the people involved in the previous (Sept) raids.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-15/man-arrested-in-suspected-sydney-terror-raid-reports/5967148
and more arrests this morning before this happened.

I saw the tweet about the multiple devices and live chat with abbot on the ABC feed but it's been removed.

I think STWorld-erist radtothepowerofsik works down in that direction..... hopefully he can give us an update.

Also JHJ suggesting that this is in someway orchestrated by the US or Australian governments is both ridiculous and insensitive.

*awaits JHJ shoehorning Jimmy Saville into the narrative*

Appreciate if it is a wholly spontaneous attack, then my post could be construed as insensitive, however given the history of such deeply disturbing manipulations as:

The babies in incubators testimony following a study by a PR company into emotional engagement of the target audience.

Falsified documents about WMDs

Using 9/11 as justification for wars unrelated to those involved

All of which resulted in wars which hugely profited those who started them in the 1st place, and death tolls of horrific proportions

It would be foolish and insensitive not to have a degree of skepticism.

Also JHJ suggesting that this is in someway orchestrated by the US or Australian governments is both ridiculous and insensitive.

Wellllllll... I thought the previous terror raids in the city [i]might[/i] have been somewhat over-egged, perhaps in an effort to push through new terror-legislation, but have been reserving judgement until details were available. However, it seems like there are indeed "highly motivated" extremists in the city after all. I shall write to Mr Abbott and apologize for doubting him.

this place is turning into the wild west! This happened outside my flat a couple of weeks ago:

[url= http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/surry-hills-arrest-car-chase-ends-with-man-arrested-at-sydney-police-station/story-fnj3rq0y-1227109217981 ]Surry Hills shoot-out[/url]

You don't live on Foveaux St by any chance do you batfink?

Nope..... Goulburn and Riley. Literally next to the police station.

I'm about 10 minutes walk away down Pitt Street, so close but not in the exclusion zone

I was already in the office when it started, so all I've seen is on the live feeds.

The doors have been locked in our building and you can't get in without a swipe card. People are looking a little worried

Had a quick scan of the article and saw the pic... thought it might've been the park by Foveaux/Collins St; been a while, bit over 10 years since I lived in Sydney.

Anyhow, no harm intended, appreciate folk may be concerned about friends and relatives.

Stay vigilant!!

They are going for the soft targets at the moment so all western nations are targets. These fanatics are all prepared to die taking others with them.

Had a quick chat with mrs batfink..... the friend of one of her colleagues [i]might[/i] be inside. She goes there for coffee and nobody can reach her. Bloody hell.

Is this Australia's version of 9/11? 🙁

Not really.... 88 Aussies killed in the Bali bombings, 28 in the Ukrainian/Malaysian airlines incident.

They seem to be evacuating everywhere. Precautionary, or acting on info?

Nothing but live coverage on tv here. Got bushfires over in WA too. Not a great Monday!

Well the BBC are giving away tactical information.

The media are a bunch of numpties aren't they?

Jesus christ, they are even onto potential racial backlashes already....it's like they're egging on a schoolyard fight, asking people what kinds of weapons the police are carrying and asking what the police are doing. They seem to want people to get blown up to boost their ratings.

^^^^^ The BBC's standard of reporting, no better than Cartman.

Just seen the bomb-squad heading downtown 🙁

I'm amazed they were not there already, they said they have had calls about devices but all negative so far.

It was one of those huge reinforced "containment" thingies that you put a bomb in, shut the door then retire to a safe distance.

ah right....

Well some people have been let out so far. Been a long day down there.

Sounds like they might have legged-it rather than been released 😯

5 people now released/escaped.....

Those is a disgrace. Invade Finland!

Think the cops are making entry now they've just chucked a shit load of flashbangs in, couple of hostages coming out...

Yikes... They've pulled someone out and they appear to be attempting to revive him/her as the footage shows ambo guys doing CPR.

They weren't holding back on those flashbangs were they!

I know. Seemed to be chucking them in while their colleagues were breaching which looked odd.

Quite a few on gurneys. I'm guessing they shot him. They're saying it's officially over now.

JCL - Member

Those is a disgrace. Invade Finland!

Invade Finland?
More like invade penguin island during the mating season. 😆

chewkw - Member

More like invade penguin island

Hey, Penguin Island is lovely, leave em alone! (It's just up the road from me...)

http://www.penguinisland.com.au/

They weren't holding back on those flashbangs were they!

Given the fact half their mates were in there already unless they have some new fancy technology that protects them from the sound and light, I bet that the guys inside won't be too happy

Jeeze, the Aussies carried that out with extreme ruthlessness didn't they. No quarter given there, that was a lot of lead. Is it confirmed that it was just the one gunman?

Really hope no one has died.

Id imagine they're quite well trained in dealing with going in to a building whilst flash bangs go off around their ears.

That went a bit turbo in the end didn't it - have to assume the terrorist starting attacking the hostages for them to react like that.

Sounded like a full on battle, terrifying.

Looks like Aussie immigration law will get tougher now ... boat people ... to the island.

Just how nuts will the Australians go now on Immigration? They are not the most accepting as it was.

People who have watched the video of the commandos throwing in the flash bang things. Is it me or do they throw like girls girls?

What happened to Dirty Harry? He'd have strolled in and shot the guy in the goolies.

Heh, I did think they were a bit limp wristed, however must be hard to throw carrying all that kit/body armour etc etc

mikey-simmo - Member

Just how nuts will the Australians go now on Immigration? They are not the most accepting as it was.

It will be even tougher from now on and I bet the new rules will include pork / bacon consumption being compulsory before anyone can be landed. 😈 I love bacon me.

Latest news ... two deaths. Gunman and one hostage. RIP hostage.

😯

edit:

sandwicheater - Member

Is it me or do they throw like girls girls?

Yes, like nancy boys.

Throw like girls? Bet none of us would say that to an armored face. 😐

mikey-simmo - Member

Throw like girls? Bet none of us would say that to an armored face.

Not all but one of the clip showed one of them throwing like a nancy. i.e. The one throwing after the others have entered the building ...

Also the gunman was a sexpest ...

People who have watched the video of the commandos throwing in the flash bang things. Is it me or do they throw like girls girls?

From a previous life, you throw them underarm eg upwards so as not to hit the ceiling or door frame, which is what happens if you throw them over arm in close proximity.

Try it with a ball and see.

Depends what you're throwing at.

The gunman had been granted political asylum in the 1990's, quite ironic that Australia has offered him safe harbour and this is the way he pays the country back

Sweepstake on how many times he got shot?
I'm going with 42.

Fantastic free publicity for Lindt at Christmas. Piled high in Waitrose this morning.

One thing occurred to me watching the news reports, there was footage taken through a window of the perp openly standing in full sight, for ten, fifteen seconds.
Perfect opportunity for a bloke across the street with a Barratt 50 rifle to take his head clean off. Might have saved some grief later.

One thing occurred to me watching the news reports, there was footage taken through a window of the perp openly standing in full sight, for ten, fifteen seconds.
Perfect opportunity for a bloke across the street with a Barratt 50 rifle to take his head clean off. Might have saved some grief later.

Perfect opportunity for a bloke across the street with a Barratt 50 rifle to take his head clean off. Might have saved some grief later.

A .50 cal round would take his head off and keep going through whoever was behind him and carry on through the wall behind 😯 I'd hope they would use something a bit lighter tbh

One thing occurred to me watching the news reports, there was footage taken through a window of the perp openly standing in full sight, for ten, fifteen seconds.
Perfect opportunity for a bloke across the street with a Barratt 50 rifle to take his head clean off. Might have saved some grief later.

And.....the second guessing and criticism starts.

Why would you be in a hurry to rush your troops into a building potentially rigged with explosives? Better to bide your time and gather intelligence.

They had a hard job, special forces were supposedly on the ground but I'm not sure they were the ones who went in as it seemed to be a reactionary assault to gunfire instead of a planned assault. Even then, Special Forces aren't gods, people die in hostage situations when it all kicks off.

They will now spend the next weeks and months replaying that event over and over in their heads thinking about whether they could have done anything better, it's not a pleasant experience for the hostages or the people who have to make the assault - so I hope the Aussies give them the thank you that they deserve.

Ah if only they'd had a shufty at STW before going in like that.

Better to bide your time and gather intelligence.

Quite, wouldn't want to truffle any feathers.

EDIT: Sorry, it's not a bunny situation.

*self-imposes ban*

Sweepstake on how many times he got shot?
I'm going with 42.

After the Iranian Embassy siege, one of the SAS involved was asked during a debrief why he shot one of the terrorists 18 times.

His answer was "sorry sir, I ran out of bullets"

🙂

CL, that was a Private Eye gag, iirc.

'First man in the coffee shop' doesn't really carry the same kudos as 'second man on the balcony' does it? 😀

One of the real quotes was something along the lines of

Lawyer : the hostage taker was found with 18 (?) bullets in him
SAS : yes it was a fairly long burst

chewkw - Member
Looks like Aussie immigration law will get tougher now ... boat people ... to the island.

In terms of the ending

Just before police stormed the building, at least five hostages came running from the cafe with their hands up and one man lay down on the floor as police patted him down.

Minutes later what appeared to be gunfire and explosions could be heard.

NSW Police Commissioner Andrew Scipione said the situation changed suddenly inside the cafe, allowing more of the hostages to escape.

Police then made the quick decision to put their emergency action plan into place and they moved inside the building.

Terribly sad news for Australia and my thoughts go out to the families of the victims

However, having just watched the breaking news on Channel 4, its struck me how Krishnan Guru-Murthy was able to give a running account of the whole event live from Sydney!

They clearly couldn't have flown him out in time, so the only possible explanation is that he is down in Sydney on holiday and was called into action

I bet that Mrs Guru-Murthy is furious!!

"Krishan - for f*cks sake - our first family holiday in years and there you are, bloody working already - we've only been here 6 hours!!!"

She'll be in a right huff for the next 2 weeks!

Or as some sniper has been quoted when being asked what he felt when shooting a terrorist dead, 'recoil'.
RIP to the hostages & condolences to their families.
No feelings whatsoever to the person that murdered them.

mikewsmith - Member

I assume you haven't seen the current policy, all deported to various islands to be resettled in 3rd world countries or turned round at sea to be sent back or handed to the officials of the countries they came from.
Using children in detention as a bargaining chip to pass legislation
Effectively tearing up the Refugee convention.

In terms of the ending

Ohh ... news to me. I think they have to do that otherwise a soft touch approach would only encourage people smugglers promising desperate people the land of plenty.

How do they use children to pass legislation? Seriously, I don't get this. Is it because the parents endanger the children when trying to enter OzLand illegally? Refugee convention? I don't think the Oz govt got a leg to stand on if the voters vote them out because they let refugee in at will.

boltonjon - Member
I bet that Mrs Guru-Murthy is furious!!

I bet they have to pay him super extra overtime or be promoted to super anchor man above John Snow. 😆

Watching the footage, i'm going to suggest from my nice safe, lay persons perspective (about 5,000miles away from the action) that the commando's didn't actually go in hard enough. Standing in the doorway, chucking stun genades is simply not as good as bundling in and sticking it to the gunman in person........ (all previous footage i've ever seen of the SAS doing this sort of thing shows significantly more application of "extreme" force.

(That of course is a lot easier to say, here from the safety of my sofa, and not being the one to run into the room with a nutter with a machine gun)

****s sake, it was a small cafe, potential bombs, too little room and they were caught off guard. The assault wasn't planned.

I've just been talking to long time friend of mine who's a Finnish commando/coastal infantry, you don't send in a platoon of guys with no intelligence into a small cafe, just to get blown to pieces by bombs. The SAS wouldn't have done a better job - so we can stop with the willy waving yes? Contrary to popular opinion the SAS have a long and pretty distinguished history of **** ups.

I'm annoyed because along with overly happy people my facebook update page is being bombarded by airsoft and cod walts/armchair warriors on my FB page who feel they are qualified to criticize the Aussies - 4 people have been deleted so far.

How do they use children to pass legislation? Seriously, I don't get this. Is it because the parents endanger the children when trying to enter OzLand illegally? Refugee convention? I don't think the Oz govt got a leg to stand on if the voters vote them out because they let refugee in at will.

The next election probably won't have immigration as a central issue like the last one.

The Oz Commando Police have done very well. Credit to them.

Aussie! Aussie! Oi! Oi! Oi! (I think I heard that from Zeta Jones or someone ...)

😛

mikewsmith - Member
Given the choice what would you do for you and your family.

Take all the risks. Might or might not work out but it is better than the certainty of death I suppose.

😮

Had a quick chat with mrs batfink..... the friend of one of her colleagues might be inside. She goes there for coffee and nobody can reach her. Bloody hell.

😥 well.... it's the worst news I'm afraid. She was indeed in the building, and she was the female victim - she was a barrister who's chambers were next door.

A couple of steps removed, granted - but still too close to home.

Sorry to hear that batfink, very sobering news. I was in Cumbria during the shootings and it was a bit like that when you found things out.

I'm surprised I didn't hear it all happening to be honest - we can more-or-less see Martin Pl from our flat.

pffff.

Media here are really playing-up the "lone-nutter" angle

I've not stuck the news on this morning, just read it (and I tend to avoid the idiot press too) but at this time if he was a lone nutter it's important to get that out. Avoid a big knee jerk racist reaction, take the wind out of Brandis asking for more power and to deflate Morrison a bit too.

Hopefully people can move on.

Not to question the importance or relevance but this didn't seem to get the same coverage
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-30484534 -

Six people have been shot dead and three wounded in three locations near Philadelphia, officials in the US state of Pennsylvania say.

batfink - Member
well.... it's the worst news I'm afraid. She was indeed in the building, and she was the female victim - she was a barrister who's chambers were next door.

RIP barrister. That's bad news indeed.

😐

I've not stuck the news on this morning, just read it (and I tend to avoid the idiot press too) but at this time if he was a lone nutter it's important to get that out

Yeah - this is probably the first time in 2 years I've put live-telly on, and I particularly try to avoid Australian "news" media.

They guy was clearly a nutter.... but I suppose all extremists that do this kind of thing are (by definition) nutters. I agree that the gov't are going to play down any extremist angle - but that does seem to have been his primary motivation - despite bringing the wrong flag.

batfink - Member
Had a quick chat with mrs batfink..... the friend of one of her colleagues might be inside. She goes there for coffee and nobody can reach her. Bloody hell.
well.... it's the worst news I'm afraid. She was indeed in the building, and she was the female victim - she was a barrister who's chambers were next door.

A couple of steps removed, granted - but still too close to home.

Bloody hell man that's awful news. So sorry to hear this.

Sorry to hear that Batfink.

A very sombre day today.

One reason they did not shoot the terrorist when they had chance was they did not have enough intel, was he was working alone at that point? Imagine slotting him and his colleague presses the loud button on some explosive.

RIP, the two victims that were murdered.

TBH it seemed pretty obvious they were responding to the situation rather than a planned attack but fair play to them, they got inside and did what they had to do. I'd imagine those 3-4 police who went in will be reliving the moments to figure out if they did all the right stuff. Wouldn't want to be them.

Given that both British and American special forces have left hostage raids with either dead hostages or no hostages over the last year or two it's not fair to point fingers at the police for what they might have done.

The BIG question that should be asked is whether a bloke who has an accessory to murder charge pending AND 40+ sexual assault charges pending should have been walking free. From an immigration PoV, I do wonder if Australia would have deported him if found guilty