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“Did your assault cause a national furore with demands for action from senior politicians? You’d be surprised how motivating that can be for Chief Constables.”
Can you hazard a guess what the consequences will be for anyone at any level in the police if they fail to bring anyone to book? Or how many shits they will give?
It's being chopped up and removed https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-67077617
two more folk arrested
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/nov/01/two-men-arrested-felling-sycamore-gap-tree
Whittling down the suspects. Eventually they’ll make the charges stick. One will bough to pressure and the crown prosecution service will bring the sap to book etc.......
Anyone else sycamore updates?
Anyone else sycamore updates?
I thought they’d caught the bloak what done it? Needs his hide tannin
😂😂. According to the hopeful romanticists, it'll be back to it's full glory soon🙄. I did larf at some sap placing a bunch of (now dead) flowers on the stump 🫤
According to the hopeful romanticists, it’ll be back to it’s full glory soon
It might be on whatever TicToc channel you follow; meanwhile, back in the real world it will almost certainly carry on growing, and producing new growth, but it will never be exactly the same, for reasons that should be obvious.
I truly fail to understand why people would do this. 🤷🏼
its a sycamore. almost impossible to kill. It will regrow several trunks from the stump. trim back to one and it will grow into a tree again. Thats what sycamores do. Its often done deliberately with trees to provide firewood without killing the tree. Coppicing its called when deliberate
Yes it will take a while to regrow into a mature tree but it will regrow
They should allow it coppice then plait all the new growth together for as long as possible
I did larf at some sap placing a bunch of (now dead) flowers on the stump 🫤
Yeah, probably one of them saps who'd scattered a loved ones ashes there and for whom the tree held enormous emotional significance, lolz..
There was national mourning in Japan when we lived there over a famous 500y old ginkgo tree that was blown over in a storm one night (just after we walked past it).
As well as the roots sprouting, they stood up a section of trunk and I think even that’s started to grow again too.
It will regrow several trunks from the stump. trim back to one and it will grow into a tree again.
We had a massive Hawthorne (+2' girth in Shetland) in our garden that finally blew over and had to be cut up. The next year there were loads shoots 4' tall that we thinned out, the following year they were several of a good thickness and about 6-7' when we left. Hopefully whoever's there now is looking after it.
It's really really shit what happened, but it will regrow. Sycamore grow like weeds really and in a woodland I managed we had to take 8 mature ones out a year in favour of native and less invasive species.
The national park guy on countryfile said they'll be protecting regrowth from grazing, and taking it from there, so I'm sure something will grow back, but it'll take some time and won't be in its original iconic form.
Anyone else sycamore updates?
How long you been holding onto that one? 😛
Back in my Biomass days, a forester once told me sycamores are the 'weeds' of the forestry industry. It'll coppice and be back, different but the same sycamore.
edit - same as what longdog said actually.
No pun intended but bring back the birch and teach them a lesson, much cheaper for public finances
Does the IOM still do it ?
According to the hopeful romanticists, it’ll be back to it’s full glory soon
No one claimed soon but it will rapidly grow, it’s what sycamores do and they often coppice them.
How long you been holding onto that one?
Soon as I read the post I responded to.
Our neighbours have 3 massive sycamores.
Their seeds get everywhere and sprout incredibly quickly.
The leaves make an absolute mess.
At least we know they aren’t Irish.
The older of the 2 has had a lot of his life posted online by the Mail... No comment on possible motive though.
If found guilty, what would be a suitable punishment for these two pricks?
Good god time fly's by. Didn't realise this was last October
Daffy
Full Member
If found guilty, what would be a suitable punishment for these two pricks?
Stocks and free rotten eggs/veg for the public to throw at them... or community service in some sort of conservation setting.
If found guilty, what would be a suitable punishment for these two pricks?
More than they will get.
The incident seems to have awoken (temporarily, at least) a realisation that not enough is done to prevent and deter acts like this. However they will be charged in accordance with the laws in force at the time.
Are there any precedents?
Or to take it to extreme, what could you be charged with for demolishing Tower Bridge or a cathedral etc. ?
Practically to hurt someone like this, I'd have them barred for life from holding any licenses for tree work, being a member of any forestry related organisation, and from owning any chainsaw or similar equipment.
Criminal damage.
Are there any precedents?
Criminal damage to the tree and also the additional offence of damaging a historic monument since it hit the wall.
Or to take it to extreme, what could you be charged with for demolishing Tower Bridge or a cathedral etc. ?
In those cases I expect counter terrorism laws about bombs and putting all the passerby lives at risk.
Could this be classed as destruction of cultural heritage? There are international laws for this both in and out of conflict, but in UK law I can only see references to conflict.
Practically to hurt someone like this, I’d have them barred for life from holding any licenses for tree work, being a member of any forestry related organisation, and from owning any chainsaw or similar equipment.
How about a number of days community service equal to the age in years of the tree and/or wall spent planting trees, the cost of which is to be provided by the seizure of assets or future pay similar to a student loan repayment - whichever is easier for the government/court?
There are international laws for this both in and out of conflict, but in UK law I can only see references to conflict.
The wall will be a scheduled ancient monument. Which has its own offences, but I think the penalties are actually lower than the max for criminal damage.
Bold look to turn up at court with.
Still, no sweat.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-69011665
If found guilty, what would be a suitable punishment for these two pricks?
Pop them into some quick drying concrete up to their ankles then chainsaw through their legs and watch them fall over. Punishment to fit the crime and all that...
Is that Prince Andrew?
imnotverygood
Full Member
There’s something about that photo that shouts ‘guilty’
Yeah, it's hard to put your finger on it...
I'm guessing they haven't heard of social media as their faces are all over it. Perhaps it's just a new fashion trend rather than an odd attempt at anonymity?
Or maybe they are practicing gimps?
Good to see, although I’m not entirely surprised, Sycamore are basically a very large weed, and are pretty difficult to kill, outside of using chemicals! Unlike Ash, which does have some fungi that’ll eventually kill it.
Two on trial for this today. This is worth a read through, they sound like a right couple of prats!
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/sycamore-gap-trial-live-updates-31522055
Summary thus far:
-The tree is valued at £660K
-the pair took photos with a wedge of wood, likely the piece cut from the tree in their car
-Both drove there, with their real numberplate on the car (captured on anpr), with their phones switched on for most of the journey
- they shared social media posts to each other about it, commented privately in reply somebody calling them "weak" : "Weak… f*** weak? Does he realise how heavy s is?" "would like to see <person making comment about them> launch an operation like we did last night!" 🙂
...and they claim to be "not guilty".
What was the point other than mindless vandalism?
From what I've read so far it does seem to be a rather open & shut case, looking forward to hearing their defence. Can't see their/his groundworks business flourishing whatever the outcome.
I've been ready the BBC's live reporting from the court. I appreciate that it's currently the prosecution outlining the case, but it does seem pretty damning.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cvg93k0950pt
Lets not forget this nugget:
"The prosecutor adds: “That video was on Graham’s phone, stored in the media/photo data section of the phone. Not sent via WhatsApp or downloaded from somewhere else, but created by- filmed on- this phone. The video was created on Thursday 28th September at 00:32:01 real time."
"Graham’s phone was at Sycamore Gap as the tree was being cut down and Graham’s phone filmed the tree being cut down."
Stupid is as stupid does.
Edit - same thoughts, same time! 🙂
It seems open and shut so far having flicked through. Sentencing guidelines suggest they would start at 18 months. Likely to go up from there though given the significant nature of what hey did.
The defence case is going to be interesting...
"He made me do it!"
From what I've read so far it does seem to be a rather open & shut case, looking forward to hearing their defence.presumably from that prosecution opening statement the defence is "a big boy did it and ran away" possibly mixed with "I was at home with my girlfriend". They are perfectly entitled to put the crown case to the test - the CPS acknowledge they don't know which of them actually cut it down and which filmed it, which makes no difference in law but to lay jurors probably feels important. Bear in mind we are two days in and haven't actually heard any evidence, never mind cross examination.
But if they get off - take a note of their legal team's details in case you ever need a miracle!
I don't know - there's an estates manager for Toby Carvery looking for a tree surgeon with the utmost respect for confidentiality!Can't see their/his groundworks business flourishing whatever the outcome.
is there any update on the motive?
They wouldn't look out of place in the Appalachian Mountains in a banjo competition.
is there any update on the motive?
Dunno about motive but apparently anyone is free to use his range rover and phone whenever they like.. wasn't me honest guv
is there any update on the motive?
From the way its being reported it was simply 'for the bantz'
"I lent my Range Rover, chainsaw, phone and likeness to someone else Guv." seems to be the defence.
I don't know how you can put a value of £660k on a tree. It's priceless.
£660k would not replace it. Some people just don't get how long trees take to grow.
Tree law does give values. Someone cuts down a tree they shouldn't it has a monetary value. That sounds about in line with other cases i have heard.
The open area behind my flat had lime trees around it. The residents of one of the buildings who have the right to park there complained to their factor about the sap dropping on their cars. The factor had the trees cut down. Only problem is they did not belong to that building. He had to replant 14 20ft high deciduous trees to avoid prosecution. That would not have been cheep
"That would not have been cheep"
Great pun - loss of bird habitat.
Double post madness.
Yes, but my point it if you gave someone £660k they couldn't replace it like for like. Unlike a car.
For meaningful compensation the law needs to put value on irreplaceable things such as limbs where the value might include loss of earnings for example. In this context £660k sounds cheap considering how well known a draw the tree was for the local area.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/may/09/two-men-found-guilty-of-felling-sycamore-gap-tree
Verdict just in.
No info on sentencing yet.
Going for the equivalent defence of "An older boy did it, you wouldn't know them, they go to another school" seemed optimistic.
The least surprising verdict since Wagatha Christie case. I was surprised to see both held in remand though, and one of them having been on remand since Christmas.
I was surprised to see both held in remand though, and one of them having been on remand since Christmas.
I think the one held since christmas was requested for his own safety.
quite how the trial went on for so long I have no idea
I think they have achieved an almost perfect "**** about - Find out" score.
Someone said this morning on one of the news reports ‘I know you shouldn’t judge by appearances, but they both look exactly like the type of people who would commit such a stupid, mindless act just for the sake of it’
It does look like there’s a very limited gene pool in the area. Their ‘dog ate my homework’ style defence would suggest they’re not the sharpest tools in the box
quite how the trial went on for so long I have no idea
To allow them to keep digging with ever more stupid excuses and self incriminating statements?😂
I'd hope the continual refusal to admit guilt will lead to a more robust punishment.
I'd throw them in the sea to feed the orca pod currently dining on grey seals along the Northumberland coast.
But I'd film it as a warning to other mindless idiots. Actions have consequences
I'm such a liberal
I'd throw them in the sea to feed the orca pod currently dining on grey seals along the Northumberland coast.
I gather that treeson still is a capital offence.
I gather that treeson still is a capital offence.
This isn't a joaking matter.
Their ‘dog ate my homework’ style defence would suggest they’re not the sharpest tools in the box
Genine question - assume you find yourself lucky enough to be the barrister assigned to defend one of these two, and they spout the shite they have - do you have to run with it in court? It'd be kind of embarrassing!
I loved the judge thanking the jury for their hard work. I'm going to assume they'd made they minds up in the first 10 minutes of the trail and the hard work was mostly involved with staying awake and/or not laughing.
You likely to go to prison for chopping down a tree?
Genine question - assume you find yourself lucky enough to be the barrister assigned to defend one of these two, and they spout the shite they have - do you have to run with it in court? It'd be kind of embarrassing!Essentially yes. Barristers don't really care though - their job isn't to worry about that, they are there to avoid innocent people going to jail, that due process is followed, and the best arguments are made (don't forget the cops arrested someone else before these two!).
they just spend over 4 hrs yesterday in deliberations before a brief spell this morning... the case was actually fairly circumstantial. Unananimous against both so not that hard - but no actual evidence who cut it down.I loved the judge thanking the jury for their hard work. I'm going to assume they'd made they minds up in the first 10 minutes of the trail and the hard work was mostly involved with staying awake and/or not laughing.
You likely to go to prison for chopping down a tree?
They've both been remanded (one of them since December), and sentencing is not till July so they will be spending some time inside. Not really any precident - but if people making policital points get prison for throwing paint at stuff or destroying statues I think unlikely to walk free after the sentencing hearing.
I'd hope the continual refusal to admit guilt will lead to a more robust punishment.Well the way sentence "discounting" works for an early guilty plea you essentially get 50% more if you go all the way through a trial. On top of that "genuine remorse" (or lack there of) is a sentencing consideration.
Yeah the guy remanded at Christmas is the one who grassed the other one in, and then seems to have had a bad "accident", so was locked up in part for his own protection!The least surprising verdict since Wagatha Christie case. I was surprised to see both held in remand though, and one of them having been on remand since Christmas.
Their ‘dog ate my homework’ style defence would suggest they’re not the sharpest tools in the box
That would be their chainsaw.
There is to be a pre-sentencing report commissioned for one of the defendants. I’m erring on their being some not-yet diagnosed medical diagnosis put forward suggesting that he didn’t appreciate the gravity of cutting down the tree. That being the position, do they then effectively concede guilt?
Or do they look into effect on family if he is incarcerated?