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Are they onto a good thing should the rest of Europe follow suit, their seems to be an awful lot in the news these day about muslims, sharia law and how some factions want laws changing to suit there relgion and beliefs, so where do we draw the line, or should we just tolerate it and except its part being a multi-racial society. Would an islamic country allow church steeples to be built.
It seems in Switzerland the majority have spoken, what would happen if we had a vote like that in the UK.
if it happened in the uk, the majority of people would either vote it, and get told they were being racist and have it overturned, or think it and vote against it, and tell the people who voted for it to stop being racist.
either way, UK is far to PC.
what happened to "this is the UK, if you want to live here, live by our laws, if you dont like them, take your sharia ass elsewhere"
??
or am i a racist bigot?
or am i a racist bigot?
Not in my view!!
[Tannoy]TJ to the forum please. TJ to the forum please.[/Tannoy]
waging a war against islamism via architecture???
im pretty sure the only architecture laws should be really about safety, conservation, energy efficiency and not making buildings shaped like giant erect phalluses or something.
pft, ban all religion.
watched kingdom of heaven last night, which got me onto getting riled about religious types (Dawkins included)
...Nuke the site from orbit, its the only way to be sure
I'm not sure on the specific subject. In the UK as a whole I feel we have been very tolerant of the views of muslims and been generous in letting them have a prominent voice. This view is now turning some of my mates who generally don't care about religion, politics etc have expressed being fed up of how there opinion is viewed as lesser than that of a muslim.
shows switzerland has some serious issues imho
iots only a building how the **** can anyone object to it, i mean it looks a bit like a penis but other than that you have to be rather racist or seriously misinformed to vote against them
olly not racist just a muppet, our country our rules? where is the rule that says you can only build an 'english' church
obviously you are a devout christian attending church daily because otherwise youre a hypocrite
you are an early contnder for the daily mail political correctness gone mad award of a princes diana comemorative plate, but the thread is young you may have to up your tired rhetoric
They're looking at banning all minarets, not just the Muslim ones.
I dont pray and I am not religious, however I think they look pretty cool actually! Some good [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minaret ]examples[/url] on wiki. I also like the sound of the call to prayer as well.
I feel pretty proud of Glasgow when I see all the various places of worship to be honest. There are racial tensions and every religion has its problems (and any religion that treats woman as if they are not equal to men needs to sort that sh*t out in my view) but banning a type of building? Get a grip.
I think that some minarets look wonderful but I do wonder how it would be accepted in a Muslim country if Christians wanted to build churches or cathedrals? Tolerance and respect from both sides and for the country itself.
Maybe it's because if I go to Switzerland I expect to see Swiss architecture - likewise if I go to Turkey, for example I'd expect to see minarets.
Some towns have a policy of not building over a certain height.
Would they still apply that rule for a minaret even if it was deemed as rascist
Hope they would, but the loony left would be onto them like a shot with all sorts of mad accusations
(and any religion that treats woman as if they are not equal to men needs to sort that sh*t out in my view)
[i]19 " 'When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening.
20 " 'Anything she lies on during her period will be unclean, and anything she sits on will be unclean. 21 Whoever touches her bed must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 22 Whoever touches anything she sits on must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 23 Whether it is the bed or anything she was sitting on, when anyone touches it, he will be unclean till evening.
24 " 'If a man lies with her and her monthly flow touches him, he will be unclean for seven days; any bed he lies on will be unclean.
25 " 'When a woman has a discharge of blood for many days at a time other than her monthly period or has a discharge that continues beyond her period, she will be unclean as long as she has the discharge, just as in the days of her period. 26 Any bed she lies on while her discharge continues will be unclean, as is her bed during her monthly period, and anything she sits on will be unclean, as during her period. 27 Whoever touches them will be unclean; he must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. [/i]
Leviticus 15
from da bible
what happened to "this is the UK, if you want to live here, live by our laws, if you dont like them, take your sharia ass elsewhere
Sorry, but what connection does this have to the OP ? Are you one of these people that thinks that every living UK muslim wants sharia law and that terrible paranoia overrides logical response to any other issue that may concern islam ?
or am i a racist bigot?
I couldn't possibly prove that but you do seem to be rather ill informed and narrow minded based on what you've posted above.
Kimbers - indeed - they need to sort that out! I didnt mean to imply that I thought christianity was any better than the rest...
Its amazing how girls scare men... 😉
Flippinheckler - I think thats a bit out of order tbh. I dont care what religion someone is and I dont care where they pray but I do care that people have the choice of what they want to pray to and where. Also I doubt in any UK place of worship will you find any higher percentage of people wanting to do you harm than in any random group you pick off the street.
As for having to follow traditions in public in the middle east perhaps thats why people are moving here as by and large most people I know just live and let live. Which is cool with me.
David.
i know dave just wanted an excuse to post a bit that bit of insane superstitous hate speak
How would we tell where we are in the world with a map if there are no distinguishing landmarks?
Get rid of these church towers, mosques, sinagogues, meeting houses (any religious buildings) and lets go for Tesco Hypermarkets instead (great landmarks?)
The world has gone frekin mad!
obviously you are a devout christian attending church daily because otherwise youre a hypocrite
how the flunge do you work that out?
seriously, please explain, ive re read the above and cant figure that out.
i have NO problem with the law changing to match changing times, and, different cultures, but for them to say " we want different laws because our made up story is different to your made up story" is just wrong.
ALL religious "rules" are based on twisting parables to suit their own needs of the moment,
i OBJECT to ALL regions, and i would ban churches as rapidly as i would ban minarets.
bring on the zombies
my appologies banning all religous buildings is fine i jut thought you were picking on the poor muslims
id agree as i cant stand religion but churches, mosques, temples etc can be some of the prettiest looking buildings around
Islamic architecture is often stunningly beautiful, and impresses me way
more than any church or cathedral I've seen.
For that reason alone the Swiss are wrong.
define islamic architecture? do you mean the Alhambra palace, the Taj Mahal, the great Mosque of Djenne.
It is like saying Christian you could mean St Peters in Rome, Salisbury Cathedral, St Basils in Red Square, all very different.
There has been a long history of trouble between islam and christianilty, recent events have stoked this mistrust, If you ask the question in this country you might well get the same answer as the swiss have given.
mrmo, c'mon man, theres a few people on here tonight that are trying to find insult in the most innocent comments.
I'll clarify then. I've NEVER BEEN IMPRESSED BY ANY CHURCH OR CATHEDRAL-(Even Gaudi's was smaller than expected)
On the other hand, The Alhambra, the Taj M, the improvements made to the Hagia Sophia, and even certain small villages in North Africa have a beauty about them linked by a geometry and pattern that is unusual to someone from northern Europe
Happy now?
Mecca do lovely Bingo halls....
I'll get me shalwar kameez.....
Does that mean the swiss are gonnae ban bingo too? 😀
The king called up his jet fighters
He said you better earn your pay
Drop your bombs between the minarets
Down the Casbah way
Do we actually have any minarets in the UK? Can't remember any on the posh new mosque in Rochdale, and don't think there were any on the one in Leeds (though I lived nearby and found the early morning call to prayer quite soothing, definitely better than church bells.)
Flaperon - give me church bells any day. Can you imagine Christmas morning with no church bells!!
Olly wrote, "what happened to "this is the UK, if you want to live here, live by our laws, if you dont like them, take your sharia ass elsewhere"
It's interesting though, nobody seems to object to the jewish courts in the UK. (the Beth Din) But when it's suggested that muslims might do the same, that's a problem.
I find religion of any kind very dull. I can't see the benefit in any of it, to me directly. Who cares about what we each believe in. However the idea of a particular style of law being enforced, which would only benefit a very small number in society, should never happen.
If only people just worship at home everything should be fine. So why can't people just worship at home? Why build minarets? Why not simply a hall?
🙄
You seriously have to look as Swiss politics to understand. The Swiss Peoples Party(SVP)believe in Switzerland for the Swiss, although they can't quite define what being Swiss is. I'm sure some of you have seen the black sheep poster? The leader of the SVP is a master of using the Swiss voting system to his advantage.
The SVP is dominant in the Germanic speaking regions and voting in favour of the ban While the French speaking regions didn't.
The minarets business is the SVP claiming they are to do with Sharia law. when you consider that Muslims are a minority in most western countries and will be long into the future, Sharia law ain't going to takeover anytime soon.
Sorry, but what connection does this have to the OP ? Are you one of these people that thinks that every living UK muslim wants sharia law and that terrible paranoia overrides logical response to any other issue that may concern islam ?
Exactly. Get a grip people.
Just because someone does not agree with Muslims, Christians, Jews or whatever does not make them racist, thats why we are afraid to say anything against them, yet they can freely have a go at anyone who does not agree with their way of life.
Sick of people branding someone as a racist, because they speak out about a community that clearly create their own devisions within our society, yet we are then labeled bigots or racist.
I think that some minarets look wonderful but I do wonder how it would be accepted in a Muslim country if Christians wanted to build churches or cathedrals?
Surely it's a good thing that we are more tolerant than many Muslim countries - we should be proud of that fact.
Guess how many minarets there actually are in Switzerland? 4 apparently, and this is one of them.
[img] 
[/img]
Arghhh the Muslims are taking over!!!!!!!!!!!
It's always struck me as a country with a bit of a wonky moral compass, and this does nothing to change that. I like Bill Bailey's suggestion of going into a Swiss bank, asking to open an account, and when they ask what you want to use to make the initial deposit, shouting "NAZI GOOOOOOLD!" 🙂
I went off Switzerland when women started to get the vote in 1959. Political correctness gone mad!
what happened to "this is the UK, if you want to live here, live by our laws, if you dont like them, take your sharia ass elsewhere"
Maybe it should be more along the lines of if you want to live in the UK don't automatically expect to live exactly how you want regardless of prevailing UK customs. The flip side being for UK residents, try and be tolerant of new cultures coming in, if they are not in direct conflict with our existing culture then maybe it will make our joint cultures richer.
Personally I'm very anti organised religion but it has given us some fantastic building both here and abroad which I'd be loathe to lose. Mianrets in the Cotswolds may not be appropriate, middle of Manchester maight be.
Northwind
I agree with you(Edit I agree that the Beth Din should be treated the same way as Shirea courts), IMO I think the Beth Din should be banned. There should not be alternative courts, especially officialy sanctionned ones. I just don't think the majority of people of aware of the existance of the Jewish courts. Certainly some of their law (divorce for example) seems to be fundamentally at odds with our secular law.
I live in Lausanne in French-speaking Switzerland and it's one of the most cosmopolitan places I've ever been to. I love it. Coming from Portsmouth in the UK which, despite being a port, I found to be fairly racist and intolerant; it's a real breath of fresh air.
Everyone I work with (a fair number of whom are Swiss citizens) are horrified at the vote and what it might mean for Switzerland's standing on the world stage. It's definitely a country of two halves though, unfortunately, and the Swiss-German majority of the population have a fairly intolerant and racist component.
Hmm..maybe they should all move to Portsmouth! 🙂
What, and have Portsmouth blighted by clock factories, banks and silos full of muesli. What next, making our beloved chocolate oranges triangular!!!
I'm very worried by this thread.
I mean, where is TJ? Really? This is serious. Surely there must be something wrong, he's not been here to post at all.
what happened to "this is the UK, if you want to live here, live by our laws, if you dont like them, take your sharia ass elsewhere"??
or am i a racist bigot?
Yes you are, so F@*k you and your white ass law!!
Just sticking my oar in for a moment, I don't think it's racist, as we're talking religion or faith; one's ethnicity has nothing to do with it. There are plenty of Arab Christians, Yussuf Islam was born Cathos Stephanopolos, befor changing to Cat Stevens, then adopting Islam. Why do people insist on using race as a stick to beat people with?
OK, its plain old fashioned bigotry! The choice of minarets seems slightly cowardly too as I suspect that it is being used as a cover for peoples prejudices. Unless their specific grip is with the architectural aspects!
If they have a problem with a particular group of people they should say what that problem is, even if it shows them for what they are...
Dissing Islam isn't racist, it's anti-Islamic (just like dissing Jews is anti-semitic).
I have no issue with the Islam faith (or any other religion for that matter), just the extreme believers/followers of it who are so narrow minded as to want to impose their beliefs on everyone or destroy non-believers. Fortunately, those people are in the minority, but unfortunately give other (moderate) muslims a bad name.
Hiya CFH.
I can't be arsed with this one. Trying to keep off the contentious subjects and have we not done this one to death? Its a fine line between xenophobia, bigotry and racism. I find the continual demonisation of Islam irritating. Religious fundamentalists are dangerous no matter the creed. Jewish, Christian or Islamic. Dunno about Buddist fundamentalists tho - not seen much in the news
[i]Small minded people getting their knickers in a twist over a storm in a teacup.[/i]
Will that do? got any more clichés for me?
I love Islamic art and architecture, but if that minaret grumm posted is anything to go by I'm not surprised they want to ban them, that's hideous!
Stumpyjon wrote, "I agree with you(Edit I agree that the Beth Din should be treated the same way as Shirea courts), IMO I think the Beth Din should be banned. There should not be alternative courts, especially officialy sanctionned ones."
How about ACAS or other arbitration services? The General Medical Council? That's really all the Beth Din are, a voluntary and optional court operating within UK law. The same is true of UK islamic courts.
Out of interest, how is the construction of mosques in the UK funded?
Out of interest, how is the construction of mosques in the UK funded?
They are funded by muslims themsleves. Weekly collections and donations from the local muslim community.
Taxpayers, do not worry, your pay packets are safe and muslims dont need your money. 🙂
Can't be arsed to read the thread, but Thatcher dun it ....
got any more clichés for me?
Thanks TJ 😀
[i]They are funded by muslims themsleves. Weekly collections and donations from the local muslim community.[/i]
That, or Saudi funded Wahhabis bent on spreading their extremism 🙂
Yeah, that's the case for the big mosque in Edinburgh town centre (which is lovely, btw, welcomes visitors and has a really good kitchen, great curries), they always say it was built by charitable donation which is true, but don't mention that 9/10ths of the money came from the king of saudi 😉
Being Swiss, although not actually living in Switzerland, I would like to point out that the Swiss people are in general not really racist and do not object to anyone practicing their religion. However, we do like our peace and quiet and what I think made most people support this law is the constant prayer chanting. I mean, I love Istanbul, have been there many times but after a few days the chanting looses it's novelty factor and just gets plain annoying...
I heard that the problem was not the minarets as such but their locations in the town centres...
Out of curiosity, is there anything stopping them from building a minaret-less mosque and still chanting? If that was the problem, seems like the law's missed it... Adhan's not required to be broadcast, that's probably a pretty uncommon practice in the west.
Dissing Islam isn't racist, it's anti-Islamic (just like dissing Jews is anti-semitic
Jews are recognised as a race not a religion as are Sikhs under UK race laws.
To confuse you some more the arabs muslims + others are also members of the semitic race. Anti- semitic should not be used as anti- jewish /Zionist it does not mean JEW- it was popularised as this by Nazis dont repeat their lie.
Like Jim Jefferies says "I hate it when people call me racist. I'm not a racist, I'm a bigot"
Buuuuut I think it's fair to say that being anti-islamic and being anti-arab are quite closely linked, even though not all arabs are moslem and most moslems aren't arabs (IIRC)
I would sadly find I I must disagree with AvalancheQueen. But I have a good friend who is Swiss and now living in Birmingham because of the attitude of a significant number of especially elderly Swiss people to her. Although a Swiss native with a few degrees and many Swiss friends, most of her extended family were Romany Gypsies murdered by the Nazis in that war with the survivors finding their way to re-establish their lives in Switzerland unable to return to the east because of the Russians. She constantly found doors deliberately closed in her face, often to hurt her and shops closing just as she was going to use them, Edelweiss is white and that's the way a nasty number of Swiss people want it to stay.
I read somewhere recently ( OK CFH it probably was the Grauniad) most minarets would not have got through existing planning controls in force in most Cantons and the fact there are only 4 proves that all this was was racist bigots having a pop at the muslims in a manner that mail and express only dream about getting such an opportunity
TandemJeremy: Dunno about Buddist fundamentalists tho - not seen much in the news
There are some Buddhist "fundamentalists" but they got wack on the head to death while chatting in protest or they walk peacefully to protest only to be used as shooting targets. Even in some part of the world the giant Buddhas - "icon" (they have no idea of the meaning of icon but assume Buddha statues are all icons) were not spared and got to be bombed by some god fearing people.
😐
Can't see the problem with any particular sort of architecture really.
Burkas however is another matter.
But really, I'm hoping that one day I'll live in a country where religious people (of any faith) will be a minority.
I heard that the problem was not the minarets as such but their locations in the town centres...
In which case they'll be rejected on an application-by-application basis - no need to the constitutional amendment.
Have they banned church steeples there as well?
Surely they both serve the same purpose - to reach up high to the glory of their god and have a good vantage point for calling their brethren to prayer via Imman or bells?
To just ban one type of tall building of one religion is clearly discriminatory IMHO- I can see two minarets from my office FWIW.
Not that keen on any religion, especially dont like muslimism because they keep trying to kill me. Get rid of it sooner rather than later.
Save our kids doing the job, we dare not.
Starseven - are you actually claiming muslims keep trying to kill you? 😯
Starseven - are you actually claiming muslims keep trying to kill you?
Sounds reasonable enough, especially if he forgot his tin-foil helmet liner.
I stay one step ahead by watching TV with the lights out, behind the sofa. That way they can't monitor me from inside the screen.
There are jobs which involve having angry muslims try to kill you, you know. But the use of the word "muslimism" does mark him out doesn't it. Either ignorance or a total lack of respect.