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My young boys normally read my copy of Singletrack. It’s a shame you have to print swear words
My solution is to go through and cover them up with a big black marker but it does hurt me defacing my magazine.
Apart from the swear words the magazine looks great.
pretty ironic when the forum is fairly tight on the swear filter
Like they won't have heard or seen them anywhere else...
It's OK - let them read it. It's making them cleverer.
I hate to think how you feel when they make it to primary school. 🙂
pretty ironic when the forum is fairly tight on the swear filter
Yeah. Bloody shit innit.
The only word that offended me was eB**e - there is no room for that kind of filth in a family magazine.
My young kids know what swear words are because they have ears and go to school. There are worse things they could be exposed to on a daily basis.
pretty ironic when the forum is fairly tight on the swear filter
Yeah but putting black marker over your screen would get annoying.
I wondered where the swear words were and then realised - Rob Warner interview 😂😂😂
Just wait until next month, I hear there's a a review of a Gusset product..
Grown-up magazine innit, us grownups can say "F * ** sideways ***** ** ****** with a traffic cone" whenever we feel fit.
I don't have kids, so feel free to completely ignore me, but could you not explain about what the words words mean and when is appropriate to use them, rather than shelter them? They probably know them already, anyway.
Hate to break it to you, but out of earshot your young boys are already using words that'd make Malcolm Tucker blush.
I am not a parent, but would "daddy, why is there black marks all over this?" not create more problems than it solves? Honestly, I think redacting a bike magazine is weird behaviour. Sorry. You're going to shit yourself when they discover Pornhub.
I don’t believe in the concept of ‘bad language’ and find it really bizarre how certain words become forbidden.
i know where you’re coming from, though i disagree, but not completely and please excuse this bad attempt to get my idea across.
**** for example, we all know it’s literal meaning, but it is used as an exclamation of wonder or anger. if your child learned the word at home or in school and asked you to explain what it meant, would you feel comfortable having this conversation? it is a word used in regular speech that denotes something that you perhaps don’t want to discuss in polite company.
likewise c**nt, but this has the added badness of using a word for female genitals to describe a person in a negative way. true also of prick but not female genitals or as grave an insult.
i have a suspicion that these words existed in the native language of britons prior to some takeover by an invading force and were considered inferior, less dignified than the language of the invaders and pushed out of acceptable use.
It’s OK – let them read it. It’s making them cleverer.
I hate to think how you feel when they make it to primary school. 🙂
if they are reading well enough to get through singletrack before starting primary school i don’t think it’s the swearing that made them smart 😜
You’re going to shit yourself when they discover Pornhub
Probably a category for that on P’hub 🙂
Are Pornhubs better than Hope hubs?
**** for example, we all know it’s literal meaning, but it is used as an exclamation of wonder or anger. if your child learned the word at home or in school and asked you to explain what it meant, would you feel comfortable having this conversation? it is a word used in regular speech that denotes something that you perhaps don’t want to discuss in polite company.
I don’t know it’s meaning because I can’t read the word. Is it **** or ****?
Curse you swear filter!
Are Pornhubs better than Hope hubs?
Something something ratchet something lube something something nipples 😳
There’s a ma****ne?
OI! Stop that swearing on here 😉
likewise c**nt, but this has the added badness of using a word for female genitals to describe a person in a negative way
Unless you're in the east end of that London, where it could be a term of endearment. "Alright, me old....."
i know where you’re coming from, though i disagree, but not completely and please excuse this bad attempt to get my idea across.
I don't feel like you're really disagreeing with me and I get what you mean. If you want to get into the literal meanings of certain words you're going to have some grim conversations that's all part of being a parent. Like explaining that the family dog didn't go to live on a farm or why grandad has gone bald and yellow.
We've got a 2 year old and the Mrs acts like we have to protect his delicate little ear drums from certain words as if he's not going to hear them on day 1 at primary school. Her brother has a 1 year old daughter and if someone says "shit" in front of her he acts like there's been a gun shot. I just find it amusing and a bit ridiculous.
The mother in law will scowl and tut at anyone who mutters an F word but will happily detail to anyone who will listen how we should deal with trans people and immigrants. I'd much prefer her to be a foul mouthed lefty.
Ours is going to know in no uncertain terms that he can't tell me or his mother to F off and he can't talk to teachers and family like they're his navy comrades. When he's with his mates I know he'll be Tuckering up big time.
Oh and anyone with teenagers, they 1000% know what Pornhub is.
Time and a place for it and depends on how young. Really young like my son who is nearly 4 I'd rather not just yet as he doesn't understand the concept and will therefore just randomly shout out the word(s) at the most inappropriate time. At the moment bum crack is the naughty word that all the kids get in trouble for at his childminder's place 🤣. When you can actually have a conversation with the child and they understand the meaning then fair enough. I'll still refrain from swearing in front of him for some time yet as I don't need to normalise it. I do like a good swear still.
Yep theres oddly another use of swear words as very friendly terms of endearment.
I always found the warmest and most sincere greetings I’ve had were always probably the most sweary.
I don’t feel like you’re really disagreeing with me and I get what you mean.
i agree.
i know one little boy who heard swear words in his home. but he only hears them when his parent are well into the red. he knows that they are bad.
this same little boy told his dad that he had to find other children to play with at lunchtime because the boys playing with cars were having a swearing competition.
Made me think of South Park the Movie, the Terrence and Philip film the kids go to see, their stunned reaction cracks me up.
Donkey raping ass master. Inspired.
I'm also fascinated by why certain words are so offensive and others are not. It's just words, I can go on a duck hunt any time I like but change two letters, or even say it quickly out loud and !!!!!
Also fascinating - so it was explained to me; the services (maybe just army, maybe all) F and C all the time so they have almost lost meaning among other soldiers. So, they need a term that labels someone in such a derogatory way that it's worse than calling them a C - and the word settled on is fella. I used to go to a military run bootcamp and for a few weeks after every session I'd wave goodbye with a cheery 'thanks fellas' or 'see you fellas next week' and the two instructor's heads would swivel round - well, like someone had just called them a C to their face. In they end they took me aside and explained and I stopped doing it. (I still use it when appropriate outside of a military context, it's my secret now)
My young boys normally read my copy of Singletrack. It’s a shame you have to print swear words
Hand them one of your **** mags instead, lots of pretty pictures to look at
FWIW I don't think OP is entirely wrong. I'm pretty foul-mouthed but that doesn't mean swearing should appear in all media. Where STW falls on the spectrum...I suppose it depends on context.
But you wouldn't want swearing to become totally normalised, as it would lose its power. Imagine if people just went about yelling sempr*ni whenever they wanted...
I’m with OP here. Whilst I fully accept that kids know swear words I don’t think it’s ok to think that it’s normal or ok to swear-no need for it in a bike mag IMO.
Appreciate I’m in a small minority these days, but I fully respect anyone trying to protect the language their kids are exposed to.
(I still use it when appropriate outside of a military context, it’s my secret now)
Well you’ve ****ed up your little secret now fella
For anyone interested, the Freakonomics podcast on swearing is great
Becoming less of a fan of swearing lately. Fair enough some people enjoy swearing but some of us just prefer to hear less of it. Is it really so difficult to understand why people dislike it? The wikipedia page on Profanity spells it out in plain English if you're having trouble.
It’s my secret now)
Not much of a secret as I remember reading it on here before... which makes it sound like urban legend. Or they were ****ing with you.
I'm comfortable with swearing with people I know well and in certain contexts, but unexpected swearing sometimes puts me on edge!
But then saying all this one of the swear words I read on the above wikipedia came unexpectedly (oi oi) and caused amusement.
I'm excited now to see what bad words are in the new mag.
Is it really so difficult to understand why people dislike it? The wikipedia page on Profanity spells it out in plain English if you’re having trouble.
Not really. Takes a dive in to religion. Swearing has its place. Nothing better than a well placed expletive when you injure yourself or are shocked in some way. What is truly sinister is the creepy bastards who replace swear words with other words. If you’re going to do it, do it right for ****s sake.
I don’t think OP is entirely wrong. I’m pretty foul-mouthed but that doesn’t mean swearing should appear in all media.
I swear too much. But swearing is all about context, this is the lesson I'd be teaching if I were a parent. I'm in my 50s and still I wouldn't use the F-word in front of my mother except in extreme circumstances (or if I accidentally blurt it out). It's nothing to do with swear words being sweary, it's about respect and some sense of politeness.
Teaching kids that it's unacceptable whilst knowing that they'll swear like a blind cobbler as soon as you're out of earshot gives them a harmless little bit of rebellion. I'd rather they secretly took up swearing than A-class drugs.
IMHO IANAP etc.
Yeah but putting black marker over your screen would get annoying.
Tippex for screens!
Not much of a secret as I remember reading it on here before… which makes it sound like urban legend. Or they were **** with you.
I've mentioned it before, so same source. But:
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fellas&page=2 (scroll down, contains bad words, so don't show your Mum / Kids. Unless they're soldiers themselves)
For those that don’t have the mag yet, the article referred to is the Rob Warner interview. We actually put an explanation/warning in before the start of the article, because usually we don’t include swearing. But in the case of a Rob Warner interview, editing it all out would make the article look like astronomy.
Don’t worry, it’s not going to become the norm.
As for the "true meaning" of swear words,
Most etymologies have their roots in either blasphemy or sex, and their perceived vulgarity has changed over the years. No-one would blink at "cor blimey!" but it's a corruption of "god blind me," something seemingly so heinous that it needed a euphemism. I'm fairly sure that my grandparent's favoured exclamation of "bugger me!" wasn't actually a request to be taken roughly from behind in a manly fashion.
Conversely, the last taboo in British swearing is probably the C-bomb but historically it was just a regular word, there used to be instances of Gropec*** Lane throughout the land (named for exactly the reasons you'd expect) and IIRC it was a word Chaucer was partial to.
I think perhaps that getting hung up on their original meaning is a misdirection. Swearwords are swearwords not because they mean a lady's front bottom or the hot place downstairs* but because people think they're swearwords.
(* - sometimes the same thing 😁)
For those that don’t have the mag yet, the article referred to is the Rob Warner interview. We actually put an explanation/warning in before the start of the article, because usually we don’t include swearing. But in the case of a Rob Warner interview, editing it all out would make the article look like astronomy.
Honestly, that's fair game IMO. Gratuitous swearing in an editorial would lower the tone - which is the point of the swear filter here, to encourage a modicum of decorum - but if you're quoting what someone said then, well, it's a quote. If you review a new hub and write "it's a load of *ing *" then I'd think I'd just picked up a copy of Nuts, if you wrote "we asked Dave what he thought about the new hub and his reply was 'it's a load of *ing *'" then that's reasonable.
Aside, this might be an Aspie thing but I never worked out what the point of asterisking out letters was. Everyone much over reading age knows exactly what the word is, you're still swearing only using a different symbol to represent 'uc' and 'un'.
Language is weird. People are weirder. I never did get the hang of Wednesdays.
We're going to run a few clips of the raw interview audio on the members' pages for those who are interested. It's a great and entertaining interview. It's just that Rob Warner talks like an Australian and, as Hannah alludes, if we took all the swears out, there'd be little left...
Can anyone recommend a mountain biking priest/nun I can interview next time? I reckon that might be a fun contrast...
I don't know, I wouldn't want to risk you getting into any bad habits...
I have no idea why you would want to stop kids reading swear words. You cannot pretend they don't exist. Kids have to know about them so they know when and when not to use them. 'When not to use them' includes any time below a certain age, then above that age when no adults are present, and then finally above another age when adults you know don't mind are present.
But blacking them out of a magazine - seriously? What possible harm could come?
Can anyone recommend a mountain biking priest
Actually yes, we have one on the forum. He does swear though so be warned.
From what I’ve seen in mtb media, Warner (or modern Warner) is fairly tame.
For excessive casual swearing in the bike world, look to the Frenchies; who have learnt (or rather become fluent) in English as teenagers in the World Cup pits and have consequently a slightly different opinion on what words are appropriate in what situation than a native speaker.
Father of two boys here. Even at 5yrs old I think they would have been a) affronted, b) curious and c) thought I was being an utter knob if I'd redacted anything with a black marker that they were capable of reading.
FFS.
Can anyone recommend a mountain biking priest
Doesn't our Basque correspondent actually ride with a mountain biking priest?
I think Saxonrider fits the description.
IIRC there was once a baptist minister on stw.
I think this thread has to win best STW stealth ad of 2023.
It’s just that Rob Warner talks like an Australian
Oy! I half-resemble that comment.
Can anyone recommend a mountain biking priest/nun I can interview next time? I reckon that might be a fun contrast…
Christ on a Bike! (The Father Jack Chronicles Book 1) - may not be quite what you're looking for.
Frenchies? Add Swedes, Dutch, Ukrainians, Bulgarians, Romanians, Russians, Serbs and most other Europeans to that list. I think the first thing most folk learn in English is F*** as a utility word which leads me to conclude that most EFL teachers are probably Scots or have been taught by us at some point.
I don’t think it’s ok to think that it’s normal or ok to swear
Umm, you're entitled to your opinions but the facts are pretty conclusive for at least the former of those points. The latter is, again, a matter of opinion or context.
For those that don’t have the mag yet, the article referred to is the Rob Warner interview. We actually put an explanation/warning in before the start of the article, because usually we don’t include swearing. But in the case of a Rob Warner interview, editing it all out would make the article look like astronomy.
Indeed, imagine being the one that censored Warner 🤣
I wondered where the swear words were and then realised – Rob Warner interview 😂😂😂
Having spent a week in Rob’s company at the Vail World’s back in ‘94, that’s the least of his bad behaviour!
i have a suspicion that these words existed in the native language of britons prior to some takeover by an invading force and were considered inferior, less dignified than the language of the invaders and pushed out of acceptable use.
Not true at all. English has changed a huge amount ever since the Anglo-Saxons arrived after the Romans, the great vowel shift, as it’s called made a huge change, but Elizabethan English has offensive terms we’d barely even recognise now, the ‘c’-word is apparently derived from the root word from where cuneiform comes, which describes a writing form using papyrus reed which is the same shape as pubic hair. It’s a word I used to hear used regularly at work by several young female work colleagues, it’s like language has always been used, constantly changing in the way it’s used.
Get used to it, otherwise you’ll just be the same prudish pearl-clutching Mail reader that have a fit of the vapours over someone with a bunch of tattoos.
Plus it’s a bike magazine for adults. Or at least, I thought it was; I haven’t read it for years.
I think perhaps that getting hung up on their original meaning is a misdirection.
Euphemisms are interesting. For example, "toilet" started out as a euphemism for some other word (probably "outhouse" or something) that people didn't like to say out loud because it carried the connotation of excrement. But then "toilet" became the standard word and after a couple of generations, people forgot that it was a euphemism. So then they came up with new euphemisms to avoid using "toilet," "washroom," for example. Then those new euphemisms stop being euphemisms and are replaced by new euphemisms, and so on.
So, no, the original meaning of a word doesn't tell us what people today use it to mean. To my grandma, "damn" was considered a strong curse word. In spite of that, my father's favourite expression was "f***ing s**thouse c***".
STW guest editor?
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While there's some swearing experts about - does the Welsh language have swear words?
I thought it would. But I've been in pubs and cafes in N Wales where I can hear groups talking Welsh, but the swears are English. I can't imagine anyone Welsh preferring English swears over their own so I thought maybe the type of words didn't exist in Welsh, or the English swear words were so widely used they just became part of the language for them. Interesting anyway.
When the likes of Taylor Swift, Olivia Rodrigo, Ariana Grande and BLACKPINK all drop the f-bomb (lets face it who are their target audience?: prepubescent and teenage girls) if your boys are old enough to want to read bike mags then you’ll need to keep them away from all the (nasty) girls….
Like Cougar I never F’ed and C’d in front of my mum (or dad for that matter, neither of them really swore in my company) but a mate stored my contact on his phone as metal ****ing heart (well my real name actually) as apparently i said it every other word…😂
I used to laugh at how in work meetings when I hit flow people would give me ‘that’ look but by the next one they’d be f-bombing at me…
In my late fifties now and have actually (naturally) dialled it back… 🤷🏻♀️
Frenchies? Add Swedes, Dutch, Ukrainians, Bulgarians, Romanians, Russians, Serbs and most other Europeans to that list.
The joy of the immediately after the line Eurosport bike race interview - barely a week goes by without some Dutch or Belgian - 'Fo' sho', it was a proper ****ing hard day'
An interview with MTB's answer to Ronnie Pickering has swears in it? Remarkable.
How old are the boys and were you aware of the article before you let them read it?
pretty ironic when the forum is fairly tight on the swear filter
Which is also ironic given that the usability of the forum is one of the top 3 things most likely to bring on a frothing, expletive filled rage.
So how do I get hold of the latest issue? The latest issue I seem to have access to is 148. Did I miss the Rob Warner interview?
Frenchies? Add Swedes, Dutch, Ukrainians, Bulgarians, Romanians, Russians, Serbs and most other Europeans to that list.
Or just people.
My children are aware of swear words and do know that in many situations it is inappropriate to use them.
We know we can’t shelter them from everything and they have to learn the appropriate time and place.
The magazine arrived yesterday and I do the normal thing of a quick flick through and the words stood out at the top of the pages. I don’t open the first page and read that and then turn the page.
I have now seen the disclaimer.
Yeah the warning is at the bottom under the article of title. Page 3 of the article has a big F bomb at the top.
It’s a rare occurrence in the magazine to see the F word. I kind of see some of the points raised.
Frenchies? Add Swedes, Dutch, Ukrainians, Bulgarians, Romanians, Russians, Serbs and most other Europeans to that list.
It does make me smile when some Swedish morning radio presenter drops a string of swears at half 7 on a tuesday morning...
I've always been of the view that children should be aware of swear words and when it's appropriate to use them. It's worked fine so far. I know full well that my 11y old is aware of a LOT of swear words, but even if he's quoting something he's read or seen in a film, he'll paraphrase to remove the swear word. He may use it in private or with his friends, but never in school or in public. Perhaps if he's angry/upset enough about something, this would slip, but, well, that's kind of appropriate too.
I used to laugh at how in work meetings when I hit flow people would give me ‘that’ look but by the next one they’d be f-bombing at me…
Once on a Teams call with my old team at work, we were all (not unusually) giving it both barrels. My partner came home, walked through the door, listened for a few seconds, remarked "your team meetings are not like my team meetings" and left.
It does make me smile when some Swedish morning radio presenter drops a string of swears at half 7 on a tuesday morning…
Radio 4, safe cuddly middle-class Radio 4, early one afternoon post-referendum. The presenter was interviewing some Eastern European person about how they'd been made to feel unwelcome.
"And there's a Vote Leave poster in your staffroom, is that correct?"
Yes.
"And on the bottom, someone has written 'send the c**ts back where they came from,' is that right?"
Yes, that's right.
... I was driving back from lunch, I almost crashed the car in shock.
For those that don’t have the mag yet, the article referred to is the Rob Warner interview. We actually put an explanation/warning in before the start of the article, because usually we don’t include swearing. But in the case of a Rob Warner interview, editing it all out would make the article look like astronomy.
Yeah, but as the bloke above pointed out you've put a couple of the ****s in big bold print right at the top of at least one of the pages. Which is a bit lame really. Couldn't you have challenged yourself to find something interesting that he said that didn't contain a profanity for the soundbites?
Very good article though, great to actually find out a bit about who he was and is.
barely a week goes by without some Dutch or Belgian – ‘Fo’ sho’, it was a proper **** hard day’
TBH my French work colleague explained this to me as it’s not a swear word for them unless it was said in French.
In my favourite Spanish tv series ‘Elite’ they do tend to drop a few English words in which always confuses me.
I thought it would. But I’ve been in pubs and cafes in N Wales where I can hear groups talking Welsh, but the swears are English
This is called selection bias. If you don't speak Welsh you wouldn't have been able to pick the swear words from the normal ones 🙂
Yeah the European thing is they really don’t class English/American swearwords as properly rude.
when my god fearing middle class Dutch Father in law first met my very English middle class parents for lunch he embarked on a ‘funny’ getting to know you story about some incident that had happened to him earlier in the week and literally peppered it with the F bomb. Thing is he almost never swore in Dutch and would certainly never do so in front of strangers or in a public place. To him the f word was basically the equivalent of flipping heck.
This is called selection bias. If you don’t speak Welsh you wouldn’t have been able to pick the swear words from the normal ones 🙂
You'd have thought most of us Welsh people - even English speaking ones like myself - would be aware of Welsh swear words but I don't know any. I worked in West Wales years ago, where everyone spoke Welsh routinely and remember asking someone for some Welsh swear words but he couldn't tell me any. I shall ask my wife later. I'm guessing that I'll draw a blank.
@johnhe - the new issue is officially out today. You have two months to get hold of it. The shop here sells individual copies and some bike shops do stock it too.
Thanks Chipps. My issue is that I’m a subscriber and I can’t find the issue to download in the downloads seçtion.
🙂