[Closed] Swapping wheels on a car

As long as you get wheels with the same BCD, bolt pattern and offset you should be fine.

check insurance policy - they may require to be informed of any modifications - although possibly the 18" alloys weren't original either..

and its not a special model mondeo with big brakes needing the wheels to be big enough to fit over - ie ST .....

"check insurance policy - they may require to be informed of any modifications "

at which the insurance company will probably go - yep thank you very much for telling us but we really dont care.

sure trail_rat - completely agree. of course if there was any incident, and they realised the wheels were in some way different, there'd be all hell to pay - and the insurance co. wouldn't cough up 🙂

and the insurance co. wouldn't cough up

Surely they could only ask for the difference in premiums, which would be nothing.

sounds like the 18" ones might be an option, so if you fitted the 17" or 16" ones as long as they are original ford ones, no-one would know. Check the tyre label, if it has optional sizes then you know you are ok, and also which sizes to fit

ps, i can find out what the orignal sizes were from the reg/vin if you want to email it to me

Might be worth checking that tyres of the correct size (i.e. tyre wall height) are easily available.

similar but not correct sized tyres can result in incorrect speed & mileage readings on the clock.

[i]and the insurance co. wouldn't cough up [/i]

Surely they could only ask for the difference in premiums, which would be nothing.

As for the OP: I got some steel wheels from a scrapyard for £15 each for a mk2 focus. They're the same as the mondeo ones from the same era, should be easy to get hold of. I've put winter tyres on them and swap them for my 'summer' alloys. You just need to get the right wheels (e.g. from the same age/make/model car, but a lower specced model) and some steel specific nuts.

at which the insurance company will probably go - yep thank you very much for telling us but we really dont care.

Put winter tyres with steel wheels on wife's car, Insurance co wanted extra as it was a modification to the standard spec of the car. I argued that it would make the car safer to drive in winter reducing the chances of a claim, so I would require a reduction in the premium.
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I paid the £30 by switch.

Put winter tyres with steel wheels on wife's car, Insurance co wanted extra as it was a modification to the standard spec of the car.

normally the handbook will tell you you which size winter tyres would be accxeptable

Think the main issue was with the steel wheels, as I had taken the alloys off. Also it is an opportunity to screw the customer for more money.

standard 18" size for a Mondeo is 235/40R18
(very hard ride)

coming down to 16 it's 215/55R16 or 17" it's 235/45R17

My Mk4 Mondeo has 'small' 16" steel wheels (NB. the offset may be slightly different to the Focus wheels). The brakes on the Mk4 are all the same size, I think.

Ride, bump absorption, feel and the tyres staying in good contact with the tarmac on a 'brisk' drive along real roads are more important to me than having massive rims and rubber band tyres that 'look fast' or having overly-firm 'sports' suspension.

@bails - I have some winter tyres on steel rims coming, should I get some extra "steel specific nuts" rather than use the ones off my alloys?

TIA

Yep, you need different nuts for steel wheels. Nuts for alloys usually have integrated washer.

As for telling insurance company about winter tyres, balls to them. Do you tell them when you replace non-winter tyres with non-OEM ones?

Also, Ford do some nice-ish looking 5-spoke 16" steel wheels. As they're Ford own brand, you can claim they're OEM kit so not a mod 🙂

[img] [/img]

I'd still be telling my insurance company all the same. Who cares if they tell you they don't care. At least it'll be on record that you told them.

Don't blame you though...looking on e-tyres:

the 18s from Marge's post above are £160 and above for "branded" tyre. 😯

These will also connect your tyres to the car adequately:

[img] [/img]

Thanks for all the help - so nobody telling me not to do it then? Sounds like a plan - and those "steels" pictured above by ir_bandito actually look quite nice (in reality I'd probably not want to spend extra to get those rather than cheap ones from a scrappy - though I suppose they'd be a good bet if I was bothered about resale). Oh, and ta for the tip about telling my insurance company - something I might not have thought about.

I'm looking at fairly standard Mondeos, I think the 18" wheels might be standard for some higher specs given how they all seem to have them - though you can get the same engine and drivetrain with smaller wheels. I'm assuming they don't fit uprated brakes on ones which aren't sold as sports models.

Ride, bump absorption, feel and the tyres staying in good contact with the tarmac on a 'brisk' drive along real roads are more important to me than having massive rims and rubber band tyres that 'look fast' or having overly-firm 'sports' suspension.
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standard 18" size for a Mondeo is 235/40R18
(very hard ride)

Exactly, and indeed - my current car which is much the same size only has 15" wheels with 65 profile tyres - would go for those if they were a standard fit, but it seems 16" is the smallest (and I don't really want to mess around going out of spec). Thanks for the info.

bruneep - Member
at which the insurance company will probably go - yep thank you very much for telling us but we really dont care.
Put winter tyres with steel wheels on wife's car, Insurance co wanted extra as it was a modification to the standard spec of the car. I argued that it would make the car safer to drive in winter reducing the chances of a claim, so I would require a reduction in the premium.
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I paid the £30 by switch

I am sure the insurance ombudsman looked into this and deemed it wrong for them to do as long as you are sticking to the manufacturers recommended tyre size. One way round it is fit some all weather tyres. Not all season but all weather - ie tyres that are M&S rated but also fine to use all year round. My Nokian WRG2 are such a tyre and can be used all year round. They are discontinued now but very good tyres.

The 5 spoke steelies above are also on Vauxhalls.

One problem you will find is it is a common modification now for people to replace heavy alloy wheels with steel ones as they are lighter and they normally leave the hubcaps off for the aesthetics of dark wheels etc. This means it is not seen a modification and is associated to certain high risk types.

Also any chance to get more money out of you and they will take it.

Incidentally all wheels across the Mk3 mondeo are compatible- even the ST only has the 300mm rotors, surprisingly.

My insurers were totally unfussed last time, because I was replacing ford alloys with ford alloys. And on the new car, they're unfussed because I'm "downgrading" theft-wise from ford alloys to ford steels.

The winter tyres thing is a bit morecomplicated. There's competing wisdom, and circumstances vary. If you get caught out driving home by heavy snow, it'll improve your odds greatly. But if you decide to drive to work because you have winter tyres, when otherwise you'd have taken the bus...

people to replace heavy alloy wheels with steel ones as they are lighter

The alloy material isn't as tough, and are cast in thick sections to compensate. Steel wheels are pressed out of nice thin sheets.

Those 5 spoke steels are made like that so you can put trims over them without seeing the wheel behind, so they look like Alloys but on lower spec models.

The alloy material isn't as tough, and are cast in thick sections to compensate. Steel wheels are pressed out of nice thin sheets.

I hope you're trolling...

PS I've got a set of the 5-spoke steel wheels with my winter tyres on. £80 off ebay for the set. I know I could have got plain steel wheels for less, but not a lot. And they do look (relatively) good. My 3-yr old nephew described them as "racing car wheels"

If you go down a size at the same time as swapping wheels, then the big tyre + small wheel combo can be lighter than the big wheel + low profile tyre combo. Especially if you're replacing cheap rubbish alloys- they can be pretty hefty.

But mainly it seems to be a daft anti-fashion thing, used to be maxxers all wanted big wheels, now their dad's repmobile has 18s so they want little steels again. Maxxer mods are never driven by performance ya know.

Right. For the record, alloy wheels: lighter than steel wheels. Otherwise alloy wheels pretty much pointless. Glad to clear that up.

But mainly it seems to be a daft anti-fashion thing

Ah - so I'd be all trendy swapping the big alloys for small steels? 😉

Like walking around with your jeans halfway down your arse then?

Right. For the record, alloy wheels: lighter than steel wheels. Otherwise alloy wheels pretty much pointless. Glad to clear that up.

Magnesium racing 'alloys' are light. Road cars are not fitted with these.

Pick up a 16" steel rim and a large 'alloy' rim. Feel the difference in weight.

Large alloy wheels are fitted to daily-driven road cars for vanity reasons, other than that they are pointless.

Also, you may not even need to change the bolts. The bolts on my Peugeot can be used with either steel or alloys. (I checked with my garage). I'm guessing this is because the spare wheel ( remember them?) is steel

Aristotle - Member

Pick up a 16" steel rim and a large 'alloy' rim. Feel the difference in weight.

Are you comparing a 16 steel with a larger alloy? That doesn't make any sense if so.

I've no figures to hand, but from experience OEM aluminium alloy road wheels aren't light as they need to be robust enough to resist being used on roads. Steel is more resilient.

'Alloy' rims are not fitted because they are lighter (or give better road performance). They are now 'expected' by the buying public.

Larger 'alloy' rims(very heavy) with very low profile tyres (very little cushioning for the wheel rim) are generally fitted for appearance and the 'image' of sportiness (along with over-firm suspension).

Yes, of course. But when you're saying alu wheels are heavier than steel, are you comparing like with like or not?

Dunno if anyone has mentioned you also need to check your caliper and disc is small enough to accept a smaller wheel.

The Factory fitted 15" alloys on my Mk1 Golf weigh 13.2 kg

The VW OEM Steels I used in winter weigh 15.5 kg

Both with the same brand and size of tyre.

I would have thought that's pretty representative of most like for like size wise comparisons.

(These are standard factory alloys. Some alloys will be the ultralight type, obviously creating a bigger weight gap)

Northwind - Member

Yes, of course. But when you're saying alu wheels are heavier than steel, are you comparing like with like or not?

As I say, I've no figures to hand, but from experience, OEM cast 'alloy' wheels feel heavier than steel wheels of the same size. I'm talking normal cars rather than exotica.

The bigger the wheels/lower the profile tyres, the more beefy the alloy wheels would need to be for a high mileage road application.

As I say, I've no figures to hand, but from experience, OEM cast 'alloy' wheels feel heavier than steel wheels of the same size. I'm talking normal cars rather than exotica.

For figures, and personal experience. See above.

v8ninety

Eh? Um... Ok. Steel vs alloy. This is a bike forum. I had assumed some basic understanding of materials such as these, but maybe not...

v8ninety
Right. For the record, alloy wheels: lighter than steel wheels. Otherwise alloy wheels pretty much pointless. Glad to clear that up.

With all due respect I think you should try checking your facts before being a patronising donkey 🙄

Not trying to show off but I've got a little bit more than a degree in engineering...

Most car 'alloys' - cast. Designed to look good. Designed to withstand the same abuse a steel wheel will get. They can actually end up quite heavy.

Steel wheels - pressed out of as thin a sheet as they can get away with. Can be lighter than you think.

Also there is a few cars where the 'steelies' are actually pressed aluminium - these are VERY light and sought after. Some have had problems with cracking around bolt holes.

Also in this case we are talking about winter tyres. When specifying winter tyres for a car with big alloys running low profile wide tyres it is not uncommon to spec a smaller rim size to enable a higher profile tyre to be used and also a narrower rim and tyre as a narrow tyre can cut through the snow better. The result is a lower rotating mass V the original set up of large and thus heavy alloy wheel and wide, reinforced side wall (as low profile) tyre.

For proof...

Peugeot steel wheel, 15x6" - 7kg

[img] [/img]

Peugeot Cyclone alloy wheel - 15x6" - 8kg

[img] [/img]

Peugeot Lazer alloy wheel - 15x6" - 9.3kg

[img] [/img]

And on the flip size a 'steelie' that is actually made from aluminium alloy - 15x6" - 4.7kg

[img] [/img]

Hence why those wheels which look like steel wheels (found on a Citroen C5) are very sought after and make a HELL of a difference.

and now lets get back to the original discussion....

I have some of those Citroen look-like-steel-alloys with winter tyres on. They are amazingly light.

Yep,not many folk fit alloys to their pugs when looking for performance. C5 steelies are cheap,light and.. alloy! Beware of certain types though as some of them had problems. Pug forums have the odd thread on which of the steelies are the lightest Inc weights and codes of the exact wheel if you plan on buying them. Even my 106 alloys feel like they weighed a ton compared to a pressed steelie. Also consider how well a struts spring and damper will work at with a light wheel on there compared to something weighing 3kg+ extra! Many folk on the pug forums report a different handling with those c5 alloys. One of them being a well known engine builder whose right into his pugs. You should be able to find out which steelies to go for on a ford forum with ease. They'll probably cost around 45 quid each or buy them for peanuts 2nd hand. Maybe some pug steelies will fit (same pattern) although the offset will be different (any wheel experts care to correct me there if I'm wrong?)

I had 17" momo's on another car and have since gone back to the original steels as they weigh nothing compared to the momo's. Even at £800+ they made the car drive like a barge. One thing though, the contact patch and quality rubber was amazing.

It would be interesting for you to get weights of those 18's compared to something like 16 steelies with monster rubber fitted. Far nicer drive than 40/45's. Also,check out the price of a decent tyre in the profile you need and consider getting shot of theold ones before they wear out completely and become worthless. Sell them now with the wheels or expect to pay 500+ for half decent tyres.

So, the blanket statement "alloy wheels are lighter than steel" isn't entirely true.

Hmm, just as I suggested.

TroutWrestler - Member
I have some of those Citroen look-like-steel-alloys with winter tyres on. They are amazingly light.

ahh you git. I was trying find some of those when I was fitting my winter tyres.

There was two types - I think the difference is in the hole - taper v flat as the earlier ones could crack. tbh it was probably due to garages using air tools on them but till highlights a problem which could occur eventually.