[Closed] Survey shows British public wrong about everything

I guess that goes to show what the zeitgeist is surrounding the issues discussed.

Or that the news is great at fear mongering.

take your pick

I'm going with 'most of the population read newspapers made for stupid people and believe what they read in them'

I wonder why the Independent didnt get IpsosMori to ask whether the public new by how much government spending had been cut since the recession started*? Or how much income inequality had changed since then#?

*
2009 = £621bn
2010 = 660
2011 = 681
2012 = 688
2013 = 677
Cuts? Wot cuts?

[img] http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/ukgs_line.php?title=Total%20Spending&year=2009_2013&sname=&units=b&bar=1&stack=1&size=m&spending0=621.40_660.81_681.33_687.96_676.57&legend=&source=a_a_a_e_g [/img]

# Gini coefficient for disposable income in 2012 at it's lowest since 1986

[img] [/img]

Hetan Shah, executive director of the Royal Statistical Society, said: "Our data poses real challenges for policymakers. How can you develop good policy when public perceptions can be so out of kilter with the evidence?

😕 Eh, how can it 'pose a real challenge for policymakers'.......surely that's the whole point - to deliberately misinform the public so that their opinions can be manipulated in such a way that they think/vote correctly ?

For example, as long as they don't realise that tax fraud is a problem 5 times a bigger than benefit fraud, then the public will carry on supporting the Tory/Daily Mail agenda.

Hardly a problem for those who hold the wealth, power, and influence, in our society.

I wonder why the Independent didnt get IpsosMori to ask whether the public new by how much government spending had been cut since the recession started*?

The survey was commissioned by the Royal Statistical Society and King's College London, not the Independent.

Covering up the fact that they haven't cut government spending would be an aim of the Tory government today, as it was when Thatcher was PM. Very few people realise that government spending went up under Thatcher as the result of a successful and careful manipulation of the news by the Tories and the media, most people think government spending went down under Thatcher.

I didn't know that! And I generally work from the starting point of assuming politicians are lying. Fair play to them, that was a good bit of work.

If you read the right wing press, the line is that there has been no cuts. The left wing press on the other hand are the ones playing the OMG!!111CUTS!!!!1 card.

Do you mean to tell me the Guardian are doing Gideon's bidding re covering up the lack of cuts?! 😯 😉

Ernie, I have consistently tried my best to inform folk here about gov spending under mrs t and other Tory governments. And what do I get for it - being called a swivel eyed Tory loon!! 😉

So glad that someonel else has taken a turn.

Do you mean to tell me .......

I mean to tell you that public opinion is deliberately manipulated by those with an agenda so that people come to false conclusions.

A bit like you're attempting to do Stoner 😉

There have been massive cuts in government departments which have had their budgets slashed. This has caused real hardship to real people. Lefties tend to focus on these cuts.

A bit like you're attempting to do Stoner

damn, rumbled!

"Poor standards of news media result in confused public" shock

Ernie, I have consistently tried my best to inform folk here about gov spending under mrs t and other Tory governments. And what do I get for it - being called a swivel eyed Tory loon!!

I feel your pain.

However if Thatcher and her ministers had proudly and publicly informed the British people how they had increased public spending, rather than cut it, then the British people would have been better informed.

I wonder why they didn't do that ? Do you think they regretted not telling the British people afterwards ?

And why aren't Cameron and Osborne today telling the electorate loud and clear that they haven't cut public spending ? Surely they don't want people to be "misled" ?

What do you think ?

My regular reading of this STW Forum clearly confirms the survey findings.

Stoner - Member

If you read the right wing press, the line is that there has been no cuts. The left wing press on the other hand are the ones playing the OMG!!111CUTS!!!!1 card.

Do you mean to tell me the Guardian are doing Gideon's bidding re covering up the lack of cuts?!

Nooooo. The point is that the government use cutting spending as their justification for their cuts, while not actually cutting spending. As I think you well know, you bounder.

Ok I'm wading in

Spend has gone up under Gideon as it did under thatcher but is being spent on the consequences of their ideology- increased welfare to pay people to be unemployed. not on good stuff I.e. investment for the future such as infrastructure and training because you can't have an interventionist industrial policy. absolutely not. no. Also much of that public spend is being transferred to a smaller and smaller number of private individuals.

Thatcher spaffed the North Sea oil legacy on long term disability payments to massage the unemployed figures.

It's ok though as our house prices will inflate us out if public debt soon anyway. Nothing can go wrong there.

Cuts? Wot cuts?

Perhaps you could post up what they were going to spend pre cuts - you know budgret projections and all that.
Fllow this with
What no change would be in real terms
What the actual cut is given the above.
Poor and from an expert as well 😕

Or how much income inequality had changed since then#?

Stoner Tut tut You know better than to massage the figures - was that deliberate?

As ernie says it is better than folk think that 31% of income goes on foreign aid , that 24 % of benefits is fraud rather than 2.3%. It helps that they think we spend more on benefits than on pensions for if they knew the truth they would not be as keen to vilify.

I would imagine that those who control the media and the agenda are delighted about the degree of ignorance amongst the general public and are busty patting themselves on the back for convincing so many folk of their mistruths

OT it would be interesting to see what the public thought the cut % was

[i]It says here that the unions will never learn
It says here that the economy is on the upturn
And it says here we should be proud
That we are free
And our free press reflects our democracy

Those braying voices on the right of the house
Are echoed down the street of shame
Where politics mix with bingo and tits
In a strictly money and numbers game

Where they offer you a feature
On stockings and suspenders
Next to a call for stiffer penalties for sex offenders

It says here that this year's prince is born
It says here do you ever wish
That you were better informed
And it says here that we can only stop the rot
With a large dose of law and order
And a touch of the short sharp shock

If this does not reflect you view you should understand
That those who own the papers also own this land
And they'd rather you believe
In coronation street capers
In the war of circulation, it sells newspapers
Could it be an infringement
Of the freedom of the press
To print pictures of women in states of undress

When you wake up to the fact
That you paper is tory
Just remember, there are two sides to every story[/i]

Sir William Bragg nails it, almost 30 years ago; how little has actually changed...

Hardly surprising given the government has been deliberately miss-leading the public to ensure that they do think that we are wasting billions on things like immigrants / benefits so they can scape goat the oppressed for every problem...

[url= http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8246/8654976662_6f349fc6c8.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8246/8654976662_6f349fc6c8.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/8654976662/ ]Blame poor people[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/brf/ ]brf[/url], on Flickr

This almost sounds like some kind of conspiracy...

(of course, the public wouldn't believe that)

No it's not a conspiracy. There is nothing illegal or secretive about politicians and newspapers such as the Daily Mail deliberately misinforming the public to satisfy a political agenda. Indeed it is to be fully expected.

Being "economical with the truth", or even straightforward lying, is not the definition of a conspiracy.

Conspiracy, collusion, call it what you will, but it all boils down to the same thing, manipulation of the truth and misinformation to serve dishonest agendas.

[i]My regular reading of this STW Forum clearly confirms the survey findings. [/i]

+1

collusion

IGMC

^ 😀

Took me a while, but I see what you did there, wonder if [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chipping_Norton_set ]Chipping Norton is still the place to be[/url]

The Tory ideology has very little to do with economics. Never has. It's about increasing inequality, making the rich massively richer, while punishing the poor for being poor. The people who own the media are rich and getting massively richer as a result of their policies

Not rocket science is it?

Spend has gone up under Gideon as it did under thatcher but is being spent on the consequences of their ideology- increased welfare to pay people to be unemployed. not on good stuff I.e. investment for the future such as infrastructure and training because you can't have an interventionist industrial policy. absolutely not. no. Also much of that public spend is being transferred to a smaller and smaller number of private individuals.

Thatcher spaffed the North Sea oil legacy on long term disability payments to massage the unemployed figures.

Thing is, your welfare payments to the workless actually isn't that much as part of the whole (or even as part of social security spending as a whole). They don't make a big song and dance about slashing "spare bedroom subsidy" and getting the dying certified fit for work because it saves significant amounts of money, it doesn't. It's the show hand - the magician waves that one in your face with a flourish so you don't watch what he's stuffing up his sleeve with the other.

The bankers got mighty narked when they were "demonised" for, what, six months or so after the wheels fell off, and now normal service is resumed.

By the way - all the problems in the NHS? I don't reckon it's really because of all them immigrants, either.

Interesting survey

binners - Member

The Tory ideology has very little to do with economics. Never has. It's about increasing inequality, making the rich massively richer, while punishing the poor for being poor. The people who own the media are rich and getting massively richer as a result of their policies

Not rocket science is it?

No, but you still manage to get it wrong.

Thatcher explained it well in the house when the Labour opposition accused her of making the rich richer and the poor poorer.
She kindly pointed out that everyone, rich or poor was better off.

Labour ideology is making everyone poorer, would you rather have that than a greater disparity of wealth?
Smacks of cutting one's nose off to spite one's face. 💡

I've had the conversation with lefties before where I have pointed out that I was better off under the last Tory Gov than the last Lab Gov.
For this I get called a selfish Tory.
Except I am by pretty much anyone's definition, poor.
So who are Labour actually good for?
Themselves, like most politicians. 🙂

I've had the conversation with lefties before where I have pointed out that I was better off under the last Tory Gov than the last Lab Gov.

You'd normally use a sample of more than one to work out if the country was better off as a whole.....

dont listen to him think only of yourself oh and of course slag off labour...the kindly lady would be proud of you

The Labour Party is pointless. Your missing the point. We now have a political 'class' with the same ideology. I just despise the Tories so much as they're clearly enjoying themselves in the process. Look at gideons smug self satisfied face as he announces yet more cuts to hit the poor hardest. They're ****s basically. Of the highest order!

footflaps - Member

You'd normally use a sample of more than one to work out if the country was better off as a whole.....

Correct, and (un)fortunately there are many, many other citizens in a similar situation to me, I am hardly unique in that respect, so the sample size is quite a bit bigger than one.

You really should try harder next time, or not bother at all and just be grateful you're in the *comfortable position that you are in. 🙂

*Just to make it clear, I'm not a leftie so am neither bitter or jealous of your position, I'm happy for you. 😀

I think the Labour Party under Ed Millipede are certainly useless, but only as they've decided not to stand for anything and just copy the Tories. Hopefully they'll kick Ed out and get his brother in (or anyone else for that matter) and start to offer an alternative.

Junkyard - lazarus

dont listen to him think only of yourself

If you'd have missed the point any more spectacularly there would be fireworks going off! 😆

Who are we meant to be looking after?
I know it's not the stinking rich, and I'm poor so who is left?

Have I walked into a "middle class Guardian readers think only of themselves" hypocrisy shocker?

God forbid! 😆

Who are we meant to be looking after?

Well personally I think we should aim to minimise inequality, which is the basis of the Swedish economic model. A fairer society is a much nicer place to be for everyone (shown by many studies as inequality just makes people unhappy).

No. I think you've wandered into your usual turkeys voting for Christmas debate. You seem to be enjoying yourself though. Simple things....

god loves a trier and you really are trying to get a reaction

footflaps - Member

Well personally I think we should aim to minimise inequality

I've told you before that I would happily help you achieve this by accepting one of your bicycles. 😀

some 31 per cent of the population is thought to consist of recent immigrants, when the figure is actually 13 per cent. Even including illegal immigrants, the figure is only about 15 per cent.

Junkyard - lazarus

god loves a trier and you really are trying to get a reaction

Actually I'm trying to get an answer, which was why I posed a question.

I know! It seems so simple now, doesn't it? 🙂

Why don't you do your usual routine of stating that anyone who has a difference of opinion to you is an idiot and we'll call it a day?

Alternatively you could send me a bike. 😀

(I promise if I receive a bike from both footflaps and Junkers I'll pass one on to someone else who is needy 😉 )

I'm off to discuss the pros and cons of the Nordic model with my suitably Nordic other half, probably over some skorpor and salmon.
Sweet dreams everyone, please send me a bike.

that survey basically describes the views of either or both of my parents my mum in particular started reading the daily mail a few years back and its shocking how right wing her views have become

the sad thing is in the 80s my parents raised me on ben elton and spitting image now they vote for nigel (%*!*% farage

You sound inebriated sbob. Are you ?

My soon to be FIL gets the Express and it's truly scary what they put in that: you'd think they were rounding up white people and forcibly converting them to Islam whilst being raped by immigrants who then dance naked on Diana's grave.

* or possibly that's just a dream I had last night and I'm getting two confused....

now, now, Ernie.

The accepted phrase to preserve the dignity of our [s]parliament[/s] forum is to say "incapable". At least according to the inestimable Clare Short 😀

😐 And there was me thinking I was being proper posh by not saying pissed.

everytime sbob posts I have to prevent myself from calling him spongebrain, cant remember who on here first called him that but it sums up his posts quite well

Im sure in real life hes a perfectly articulate and rational person

Yes but does he find himself as funny in the real world as on here?

kimbers - Member

that survey basically describes the views of either or both of my parents my mum in particular started reading the daily mail a few years back and its shocking how right wing her views have become

the sad thing is in the 80s my parents raised me on ben elton and spitting image now they vote for nigel (%*!*% farage

You are my brother and I claim my *five pounds!

*Alternatively please send bike.

ernie_lynch - Member

You sound inebriated sbob. Are you ?

To be honest it's almost completely worn off.

kimbers - Member

everytime sbob posts I have to prevent myself from calling him spongebrain, cant remember who on here first called him that but it sums up his posts quite well

Im sure in real life hes a perfectly articulate and rational person

I'm sure in real life you wouldn't exchange a reasonable response with a petty insult... 💡
😉

Everyone loves cuddly Labour...but I can never forgive them for the lies and the warmongering that have left hundreds of thousands dead.

I'm a child of the 1980s though, which means that I can never, will never vote Tory.

I'm screwed.

Lib dem then what could possibly go wrong 😉

It me next ...gets excited for witty response from sbob

I'm sure in real life you wouldn't exchange a reasonable response with a petty insult...

ok genuine serious voice.. I know I feel bad having typed it and its mean of me really, it stems from 2 things 1) your views can be so opposed to mine that I find them hard to accept 2) your grammatical style can be discombobulating

Kimbers are you expecting a grown up response? and you bit as well?

He has his views which is fine but I am sure he is fully ware of his presentational style and it is no accident

I'm sure in real life you wouldn't exchange a reasonable response with a petty insult...

He says after accusing "lefties" of being bitter and jealous, and hypocrisy.

All virtues no doubt and not considered to be "petty insults" by sbob

ernie_lynch - Member

He says after accusing "lefties" of being bitter and jealous, and hypocrisy.

All virtues no doubt and not considered to be "petty insults" by sbob

I hardly think an obviously tongue in cheek general quip made in an entirely relevent context compares with a direct personal insult, but if you want to jump up onto that bandwagon you go for it. 😀

3/10 for discreditation.

Actually, 2/10 as I didn't accuse "lefties" of "being hypocrisy".
A point only made as your predeliction for deliberately misconstruing people's posts to score points has been noted. 😉

The bigger problem and more worrying factor is that I have very little faith in the general public to understand percentages. If you asked people how many out of 100 you might have got different ansewers

an obviously tongue in cheek general quip

Ah, you were only joking - in reality you wouldn't dream of making derogatory remarks about lefties. Obviously !

.

I didn't accuse "lefties" of "being hypocrisy".

This is very true, you reserved the petty insult of hypocrisy for "middle class Guardian readers".

I should have made that clear distinction between "lefties" and "middle class Guardian readers" which you made. I was wrong not to, but then as you note in a further petty insult I [i]"deliberately misconstruing people's posts to score points"[/i]

Although of course you deliberately misquoted me to make my comment appear grammatically incorrect. Presumably to score points ?

From OP link: Bobby Duffy, the managing director of Ipsos Mori Social Research Institute, said....

I think the interesting irony from the original article was the choice to quote Mori SRI. In addition, to people "being wrong" about things there is a large body of academic material that contrasts what people say they do and what they actually do. Attitudes/belief v actual behaviour. So why do we bother with institutions like Mori since there results are (more than?) likely to bear no/little relation to what happens.

One of my favourite examples from the fmcg world was the finding that something like 70% of those who voted Flora their favourite margarine in the 1990s actually admitted that they had never bought/tasted it!!

Makes life a little interesting if you are in fmcg marketing!!

Stats are great... My personal favourite is from the last census. The leading question used led to 53% of people saying they were christians.

But the exact same question followed with "Do you believe in god" found that 52% of these christians did not.

Excellent work, maths, take the rest of the day off.

However... This isn't a saying/doing survey, it's a "what do you think" survey, so sure you can't assume that the answers are accurate, but it does remove the biggest disconnect- you wouldn't want to work with the exact numbers but the gist of it is probably still informative.

Junkyard - lazarus
dont listen to him think only of yourself oh and of course slag off labour...the kindly lady would be proud of you

There is no such thing as society.

So why do we bother with institutions like Mori since there results are (more than?) likely to bear no/little relation to what happens.

Yes we need more economic bodies - that sort of thing can anyone doubt their ability to predict future behaviour....oh the ironing

Do the stats bear this up - see what I did there
I thought they were pretty robust in terms of elections and that sort of thing where they can be tested against the real world.
I once got a driving survey that asked me what % of drivers were below average - I guessed at 50% on that one.

it's a "what do you think" survey

Junkyard - lazarus

Its a question no one can get wrong as it is what they think

But they [i]can[/i] give a false answer. Why they would do so, is complicated, mostly it's because we're all dicks.

JY - any point in that?

Since when has the electorate being mis-informed been news?

Seeing the number of people reading the Metro in the morning tells me people are quite complicit in being mis-informed as well...

But they can give a false answer.

Why they would do so, is complicated, mostly it's because we're all dicks.

More broadly yes we are all more likely to lie when surveyed so yes we can all be dicks

JY - any point in that?

that I have very little faith in the general public to understand percentages.

my bil is a Dr. Told a patient in surgery she had a "half a percent chance" of being left infertile after treatment. Response "that's one in a million though" 😯

Sadly, no bicycle was couriered to me this morning.
I can only conclude that this forum is actually populated by nasty tories.

Sad times. 😥