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SO we were all agreed on a reasonable price for a bungalow we liked, which needed a bit of 'doing up' from my perspective.
I was happy with this.
However, the survey has highlighted 'asbestos here' and 'walls crumbling' there..
What's the standard etiquette??
Make a new offer of: (Quotes for the repairs) minus (original offer price)?
It's a faff because the mortgage company have 'devalued' the place, so will be lending us less than we originally wanted, which leaves less 'real money' spare for the needed repairs in the first place....!
I was happy with the original offer price for a 'working and fit' house, but now it seems a bit knackered, I'm clearly needing to lower the offer, but unclear how best to go about it!!
WWSTWD?
DrP
Walk away
highlight the list, knock 150% of the cost of the work off the price
What onion says
work out how much you want it and bid accordingly or walk away if the answer is not very much
150% is excessive IMHO
Do you love this property, I mean REALLY love it.
If not, walk away.
If so then get someone who knows what they're doing to give you a 'worst likely case scenario' quote and revise your offer down by that amount + 10% 'faff-tax.'
If the seller has any sense they'll be fully aware that they're selling a building with serious issues and will know that if they wanted top dollar they should have sorted these BEFORE putting it on the market. They won't be overjoyed but there is something to be said for having a buyer who understands what they're getting into and they should be up for negociation.
If they turn your offer down flat and insist on the 'problem-free' price then walk away, they're not the kind of people you're going to want to get involved with, they're looking for a sucker, don't be that sucker.
If you want it counter offer and give your reasons. This is why you get surveys done.
Unless you're really stupid you would have noticed crumbling walls and offered accordingly 🙂
Asbestos is a different ballgame and a right PITA
If you luuuurve the place keep your offer the same but make it a condition of the sale that they get it removed safely before you exchange contracts
If you dont love the house walk away
Cheers
Why get knickers in a twist over asbestos "here" depends where "here" is....
Every house on my street has asbestos eaves.
We dont be disturbing the eaves ever , they dont need maintainance very often and even thats just a wipe with a cloot and a paint.
Doesnt bother me.
If its an asbestos wall lining or artex ceeling it would be an actual issue.
It's an 'estate sale' i.e the seller's don't/didn't know the building at all - it was lived in by an old relative who no longer lives anywhere....
We don't 'love' the house to a super significant degree, but can really see potential to expand the place, and at the right price will be a great home.
I've let the agent know the original offer WILL be amended once further quotes are back.
I suppose I could insist the old boiler be removed as a condition of sale.
And I also suppose I am probably a bit stupid to not see crumbling walls in the deepest darkest aspects of the loft space.... Forgive me...
DrP
Surveyors are going to cover their backs (understandably) and will report everything they see, or think they see, regardless of whether it's an actual problem or not.
Get a trusted builder to take a look at the place. They'll take a more "real world" view and it will enable you put some sort of perspective to the problems the survey raised.
Rich.
Regardless of where the asbestos is or how much of a risk it is, you don't want any trace of it in your house. Why? Well because it will always be an issue and will put off a lot of potential buyers when you evntually sell. Make sure you get a quote from a specialist to strip it out.
It's reasonable to negotiate on the basis of the survey results. I did that this summer, and they agreed to knock off £1500 which at least will pay for the roof repairs.
Get a quote, we know a few builders between us and as for 1.2x the quote off the value to give you some contingency.
Yep quotes (you may need to pay for these as it's all very speculative work at this stage) price up the repairs of the stuff you hadn't factored in and take it off the offer.
In the mean time look at other places.
Had this last time we were looking. Survey showed damp and major roofing issue (in the valley between the house and next door so not visible without ladder)
Counter offered having had 2 quotes of about 10-12k to fix it. Vendor refused to budge, then said they had had it fixed for £800 which made us worried that the place would be bodge central so we walked away.
Still on market now. Had some tidying up of garden and has had some scaffolding up around roof too but now wants another 25k for it!
No. Surely there are other houses. You'd need to refurb it ontop of structural too.
Is this a bungalow in Worthing? If so you're already dead so no need to worry about asbestos or walls falling down. 🙂
I suppose I could insist the old boiler be removed as a condition of sale.
Good God certainly, move into a house with a ready made squatter?! 😆
Congratulations on get a surveyor to go into the loft. Pretty sure the useless **** we had didn't even get out of his car. Tempted to class them in the same boat as estate agents and used car salesmen.
Take a builder, plumber and an electricial and find out what's really wrong with it.
I'm reading between the lines and thinking you're dealing with an Asbestos Flue Pipe? If so the project I'm working on had one fitted to an old floor standing boiler, the plumber removed carefully and it was professionally removed from site for £475. Hardly enough to cancel the sale of a house, but enough for a renegotiation.
As for the damp, is it rising, from bad gutters, a leaky roof etc. it's not always as bad as it sounds. I'd get a quote from a builder/specialist and knock that from the price if you're keen on the house.
I'm reading between the lines and thinking you're dealing with an Asbestos Flue Pipe? If so the project I'm working on had one fitted to an old floor standing boiler, the plumber removed carefully and it was professionally removed from site for £475. Hardly enough to cancel the sale of a house, but enough for a renegotiation.As for the damp, is it rising, from bad gutters, a leaky roof etc. it's not always as bad as it sounds. I'd get a quote from a builder/specialist and knock that from the price if you're keen on the house.
I'd be more concerned with the crumbling walls. You can get asbestos removed but a 'crumbling' wall could mean the wall removed from the side of a house and effectively rebuilt.
Where have the mortgage company valued the property? Below your offer price, equal with what you've offered or still above you offer?
I think that valuation will affect your ability to re-negotiate.
DrP - if you want I can have a look at the survey as they are all full of caveats to cover themselves.
As said above a bit of asbestos might be every room or just a flue. Ours had a flue and possible artex which we have plastered over as we go along so it is not disturbed and the flue was taken out by the builder who bagged it for us and we were then able to drop it at the local tip (he would have charged extra as it would have been trade disposal).
Get a few builders to quote for removal ad asbestos and repair of wall.....chances are like most surveys......they're very exaggerated in terms of real world problems
First job is to get yourself out of love with the place. Stop imagining yourself living there. Think of it like a property development project.
Then get a builder in to properly assess and quote for what needs doing. Take that, plus a few thousand more as a contingency off the offer. If they accept it, great, if not, walk away.
[i]WWSTWD?
DrP [/i]
[b]Walk.[/b]
I'd say the main point of this is that you are intending to refurb it.
This could bring two opportunities:
1) refurb and remove the asbestos at the time of refurb
2) refurb and not remove but disturb the asbestos.
I'd be happy to do 1 but not 2.
Sounds like you'll be getting the place at a decent cost, and in these times thats the biggest bonus, so you could suck it up.
[i]so you could suck it up.
[/i]
It's asbestos, so not recommended.
Depends how badly you want the place, how badly the seller wants rid of it and how keenly it is priced.
I would get quotes to fix the issues and then ask the seller for a reduction of all/half/a bit of it. The amount depends on your answer to the first question.
Remember, very few things can't be fixed, it just comes down to cost and your tolerance to disruption while it is done.
Do not underestimate the costs of dealing with asbestos. Even if you are happy with the remedial works when you come to sell it can be an issue. I had a mate who has had two places with asbestos issues, in the second case it passed survey but he found a load buried in the garden he assumes by the prior owners. He has had it dealt with but it's expensive and you want to make sure you have a company which can "guaranty" the work.
I would get some quotes and inform the seller you are doing so. I'd then make a substantial price reduction and if the seller doesn't want to budge sufficiently I would walk away. Note if you share the asbestos survey find with him (do it in a letter saying you wish to revise your offer taking into consideration remedial works which will be required) he is then legally obliged to share that info with any new purchaser so you can play hardball with him and tell him that (perhaps diplomatically)
I imagine the seller (probably a Cousin or distant relative) if face with a low offer will just hold out for a first time buyer who doesn't select an indepth survey or decides to chance it on costs/a developer who quickly flips it....
I work in the mortgage industry. If the house has down valued then that's the value, don't pay any more than that. Your offer should be that valuation minus the costs of any work.
Where have the mortgage company valued the property? Below your offer price, equal with what you've offered or still above you offer?
Mortgage company valued it £15k below our offer price..
Essentially it was marketed at £375. We 'settled' on £360, and mortgage value at £345!
Just getting quotes in..
Leccy rewire already looking at £3k+vat...
However, Bikebuoy has kind of nailed it - the potential to have a great house in the location we want, once a few bob is spent on it, is completely there. It's just all this survey stuff is a bit of a pain (not the survey per-se, but the outcome of survey!)
Hmmm...
DrP
Well I'd say you're looking good to revise your offer down. Anyone else applying for a mortgage will surely also have their bank telling them it's only worth £345k and so the only people who'd likely pay above that are either desperate for the property or cash buyers.
Good luck!
Your offer should be that valuation minus the costs of any work.
Why? Surely that valuation is for the property in it's current state. They won't be valuing it against having the remedial works carried out in the future.
If you don't want to buy a house, buy a survey. *ducks and runs away*.
If it's come down to small sums, do you love the house enough? If it's big numbers then probably worth pursuing with a much reduced offer. How will you feel if that offer is rejected?
Get a builder that you trust to look at the highlighted problems, and give you a rough estimate.
Surveys are very pessimistic, think mine was 46 pages of problems, 99% of which didn't actually exist inc rising damp (I bought it anyway).
footflaps is on it .
in my survey of 3 people who have bought houses with asbstos marked on the survey .... they paid asking or more and couldnt care less about it. i guess they dont recide on paranoidtrackworld.
sounds like the asbestos is in a boiler anyway hardly the end of the world to get rid of - scrap man paid for mine.
probably says something like "electrical system doesnt meet current regs" as well - some folks read that as "MUST REWIRE" - if you really needed to rewire it would say "REWIRE required" or " consult a qualified professional"
Why get knickers in a twist over asbestos "here" depends where "here" is....If its an asbestos wall lining or artex ceeling it would be an actual issue.
Artex has been recently deregulated or some such due to the minimal amounts it contains. Basically, don't spend the next 5 years cutting holes in it and trying to inhale the dust and it's not a problem. Well, apart from how it looks, but you can get it skimmed over.
A similar issue is some 60s/70s tiles. Whilst putting in my new kitchen, my Dad spotted these on our floor and said if he was working for the housing association he used to be a sparky for, he'd have had clear the site, isolate the room with sheeting and call in a removal company, fully suited who would remove it for safe disposal, and hoover will a speacial hoover that also had to be sent away for emptying. Obviously Mrs B went all 'won't somebody think of the children!!' but essentially he pointed out they were harmless if not disturbed,m and by the time we'd primed and tiled over they weren't an issue. And they would only be an issue if we planned doing it to 10001 other houses too.
Sounds like a similar era to my house, there will always be something, but to be honest if you're not in a trade being exposed to the broken dust for days, weeks, months on end, your risk is no worse than anyone else. I reckon I'm more likely to die from the poor taste of the previous owners.
Quick update..
The vendors (probity sale) were getting a bit miffed at reducing the price - we did explain (as did the estate agent) that these issues won't go away for a new buyer, and were not noted/expected originally.
As such, they agreed a 12.5k price drop - that suits us, though means we'll have to put more of 'our money' into the sale, because the mortgage co will only lend 80% of the 'reveised cost'!
Happy though...I'll keep you posted as to whether it turns into a money pit or not....
DrP
.I'll keep you posted as to whether it turns into a money pit or no
Having recently bought a house "in need of some work" (understatement) I think you can safely assume it will turn into a money pit, the question is how deep does the pit go...
money pit
Love that film.
Wait until your electrician sees the installation... there can't be many houses that comply with current regs so there's a whole seam of work there waiting for the electrical trade to mine.
We are having a new kitchen fitted at the moment and the sparks, who I trust 100% as he's done loads of work for us (and is just buying his first road bike), has mentioned that our board needs updating to comply with regs on RCDs. No urgency but with an eye on selling the house in the future we will get him back next year to sort it.
Good news DrP!!
It's an 'estate sale' i.e the seller's don't/didn't know the building at all - it was lived in by an old relative who no longer lives anywhere....
He didn't kark it of asbestosis or a falling brick, did he?
has mentioned that our board needs updating to comply with regs on RCDs
Has he mentioned that board can't be replaced without rewiring yet?!
Most important point. Does it have a decent workshop for your bikes?