[Closed] Supplements... what and why?

High strength Vitamin D

High strength Vitamin D

Oh yeah that's a good one. Had a run on that in the winter. Seemed to improve my mood.

I'm sure someone will be along to tell everyone that you can get all you need from a balanced diet. With the more intesive farming techniques used these days i do wonder if food contains as much vitamins and minerals as it once did

I haven’t used anything other than real foods for years. I took a supplement to increase my very mild hypothyroidism when failing to conceive for 18 months. Within a month we had a result.

I’m sure someone will be along to tell everyone that you can get all you need from a balanced diet.

There’s some truth to this I suspect. I’m fortunate to live in an area where I can eat seasonally all year round from volcanic soils though and have skin cancer as a bigger issues than Vit D deficit.

A multi-vitamin can't hurt.

Don't take anything, it's all boll**s,
waits for the vit D doomsayers.

Multi vitamin just as an insurance. I don't have the time or inclination to eat a perfectly balanced diet.

More controversially, I've found that a protein drink straight after a long or hard ride really seems to reduce soreness the next day. Usually just pick up either For Goodness Shakes from Tesco when they are £1 on the clubcard deal or the 99p version from Aldi.

Too much vitamin D can cause hypercalcemia.
Taking vitamin D supplements can reduce the bodys ability to produce vitamin D naturally..

Vit D. Living this far north we don't get enough naturally

I’ve used recovery drinks when training and racing, particularly when doing hard back-to-back rides to aid recovery/ not waking up with ‘wooden’ legs, but for general riding and ultra-endurance it’s just a case of watching my diet, making sure I was taking on enough calories. As I got fitter, my efficiency improved to the degree that much of the manufacturer’s recommendations were meaningless.

I’m sure someone will be along to tell everyone that you can get all you need from a balanced diet.

You can get all you need from a balanced diet.

I don't have a particularly balanced diet (and am vegetarian) so I take a multivitamin on the grounds of "well, it can't hurt." I could - and should - eat better.

Obviously this rapidly falls into the age-old argument of "what I do is right and everyone else is wrong" but I don't see the need for a cocktail of supplements unless you're actually deficient in something.* The answer to "what should I take?" is "whatever you need to be taking," otherwise any and all of it is a waste of money. Including my multivitamin.

(* - brains?😁)

My diet is actually pretty good but when I had some health issues a while back one of the things the GP spotted in my blood tests was low vitamin D and low calcium. She advised that I take some Vit D and lo and behold my calcium normalised. I could probably drop it durng the summer but I think it's easer to have a daily habit.

Other supplement is a recovery shake after hard or long rides. I just feel better in a few ways when I do it. I used to just have nesquik and milk but it wasn't great for my guts - the SIS Rego stuff does the job though.

Now: strong vitamin B6, B9 and B12 plus D3. B9 (folate) is like amphetamines for me.

I took a blood test before Christmas and showed my vitamin D levels were 48 (normal range 50-250). That was after taking multivitamins regularly and having plenty sunshine. Did a DNA test as I have family history of lots of diabetes and burn out. I have mutations causing lower vitamin D. Two others, one impacting b9 (folate) uptake and another one causing high homocysteine levels. After taking vitamin B all my incredibly tight muscles relaxed and my energy levels doubled and I experienced what can only describe a feeling of 'is this what everyone else normally feel like?'. The mutations are MTHFR and CBS genes. Can mitigate by taking vitamin B complex. A fairly large proportion of the population have MTHFR mutations (high in Ireland and Norway for instance).

Electrolytes and creatine to get rid of my POTS too. (Dizzy when standing up, will pass out if I stand still for too long) and messes with heat tolerance (that might be vasovagal syncope too though). Pass out when needles are stuck into my veins 🙂

Synthetic vitamins are not the same as vitamins in whole foods.
https://thehealthyrd.com/avoid-this-list-of-synthetic-vitamins-to-protect-your-gut/

Synthetic vitamins are not the same as vitamins in whole foods.

Someone selling books and alternative supplements to supplements should not be considered an unbiased source.

Any intense XC ride over 2 hours and I'll make a whey, milk, banana, oat flour and electrolyte powder recovery shake when I get home. I don't need to see any science behind that one; its tasty, full of good stuff, and sorts me out.

Magnesium tablets for the periods where I'm doing a lot of riding (100+ offroad miles a week).

Healthy balanced diet.

I don't bother with gels but will take either a homemade flapjack or Clif Bar if I'm doing a big one.

Vit D 25u daily in the darker months.

That's pretty much it. Had full blood work done for a work medical a few months back which the doctor said came back perfect. A few years ago before focussing on my health and diet I was deficient in vitamin D and B12.

I take D2, Omega 3, Ginger root & Ashwaganda root and I feel much better for taking them. I use creatine on and off for a few weeks at a time too.

I currently take a multi-vit, B complex and a C/iron tablet at least every other day. I ought to get enough D production from work and outdoor cycling until September(ish), but I must remember to get some D tablets/ spray in ready for the winter.

I can't remember the last time I had blood analysis done on my levels.

My better half had some blood analysis done recently in relation to her Long Covid and not being in any fit state for her NHS role for almost 18 months now and it transpired her D levels were very low, so now taking high dose supp.

I've got a couple of pils and powders but tend to just use them to ballance things out or use them in a targeted way.

Whey protein - 25g after a lifting session a the gym + 25g extra per day if I've plateaued + 25g if my muscles just feel lacking, especially towards the end of a hypertrophy block and the gains are slowing down. I don't measure protein outside of that, and it saves me from having to sit there checking the protein content of breakfast options like a lunatic and just enjoy a coffee and croissant if I dam well want one rather than have sausage and eggs every morning. I've also got some recipes for low-ish calorie brownies, fudge, cookies etc which blur the lines between "supplement" and "treat".

Multivit - because why not, I'd need the B bits anyway as modern farming/cooking all but eliminates the body's ability to make them from a veggie diet. Ditto the D in winter.

Omega 3 - because I'm veggie and CBA to have porridge topped with chainseeds and flax and wallnuts every bloody day (see sausages and eggs comment above).

Creatine - like the whey, tend to only use it in the 2nd half of a block when things are slowing down.

Some Thermosomethingorother that came as a jar of 200 pills freebie, mostly caffeine and ginger, makes 5am commutes on the bike almost enjoyable when nesecary.

Magnesium/zinc/calcium, cod liver oil, vit c.

Cod liver oil and some best selling Amazon multivitamin.

A multi-vitamin can’t hurt.

The science doesn't necessarily agree with that. There's zero evidence they do you any good and there is always a risk it might do you some harm (specific to you or to the supplement).

I used to take a few supplements - Cod liver Oil and Calcium / Vit-D but there appears to be no evidence either have a benefit so I stopped and don't take any supplements now.

There was a fascinating study a few years back on anti-oxidants which at the time were thought to reduce cancer. So a massive double blind trial started. Half way through they looked at the results and were shocked to see that those taking the real thing had higher cancer rates and higher mortality rates from cancer. They stopped the trial immediately. They had expected the complete opposite. Anti-oxidants in food seem to do you good (lots of science). Big supplements were killing people.

I take a multivitamin effervescent tablet in a pint of water. For me it's nicer to drink than a plain pint of water and gives a bit of insurance regarding vitamins and wotnot. There are a couple of variations of the supplement and I plump for what I fancy on the day.

There was a fascinating study a few years back on anti-oxidants which at the time were thought to reduce cancer. So a massive double blind trial started.

Can you remember where you heard/read about this trial? I seem to remember hearing about a similar trial that came to a different conclusion but my memory is pretty hazy.

For users of vitamin d supplements Calcification of the arteries can be avoided by taking vitamin K2.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7406600/

I take d3, K2, b12 and l Glutamine.

I suffer from psoriasis and it's an experiment to see if it helps reduce it.

Omega 3 – because I’m veggie

Have you found a source of that which isn't fish?

The science doesn’t necessarily agree with that. There’s zero evidence they do you any good and there is always a risk it might do you some harm (specific to you or to the supplement).

Which science?

If I were to posit "There’s zero evidence they do you any harm and there is always a risk it might do you some good" could you disprove that?

Too much vitamin D can cause hypercalcemia.
Taking vitamin D supplements can reduce the bodys ability to produce vitamin D naturally..

Are you a health expert? Someone with proper qualifications? I’ve read plenty of health papers which state that those in the Northern hemisphere really don’t get enough exposure to sunlight to make enough, and my work involves me being indoors much of the day, all through the year.
As far as other supplements are concerned, I take a Vit C & Zinc tablet every morning, and I also take a MacuGuard tablet every morning, to control the macular degeneration I’m getting in my left eye. Which is genuinely helping, and was suggested by the doctor I saw at Bath RUH when I had my eyes checked for cataracts.
Unfortunately, I was turned down for a cataract operation, which has meant I have very limited vision in my right eye, so I’m very grateful for the help the supplement has given me for the macular degeneration.

Hopefully, my next eye check next month will get a better result, vis a cataract replacement. It’s a shame there isn’t a supplement that can clear cataracts.

I had a look at the Cochrane Library website to see what comes up in relation to the use of supplements. I didn’t find anything that suggests there’s any benefits (or otherwise) to taking them for general health purposes, but plenty relating to specific conditions as CountZero says above.

Eg this:

https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD000254.pub4/full

B2 as I am a grass muncher.

Every so often some bogus scare story comes along but yes, modern intensively farmed good is just as nutritious as it was in the good old days and far less likely to kill or injure you with various pathogens too.

My wife occasionally throws a multivitamin pill at me but otherwise no supplements. I tried beetroot juice quite recently, no measurable effect.

A very good diet will cover it but you will struggle with vitamin D and if vegan then struggle with a few more.
A multi vitamin is an easy fix but it would be really worth knowing if you are actually deficient in anything wouldn't it - including any metals and concentrating on that, preferably via fruit or veg if possible.

Still, I suppose it is cheaper to just but the multi vitamins...

Too much vitamin D can cause hypercalcemia.

Of a list of things that will cause hypercalcemia, I think most doctors would put "too much VitD supplement" on the bottom of a list that has; thyroid disorders, cancer, tuberculosis and sitting around on yer arse all day in very strong sunlight, above abusing vitD tablets. It's very difficult to intentionally take too much Vit D. most supplements are in the 1000 IU range*, for a single tablet, and you'd need to take 60,000-70,000 IU every day for months to even get close to getting any symptoms.

*and unless you're taking a magnesium supplement not all of that is going to be taken up by your body.

If you want to join in a conversation about the health benefits or otherwise of vitamin supplements, by all means, join in, but spreading shit via just posting videos - the only contribution you ever make to any thread; is just trolling.

If you have a halfway decent diet vit d is all you need

Ickc stop giving medical advice without the knowledge. You can get issues with too much vit d at much lower levels than you state.

I’m a medic particularly interested in this area which is rapidly advancing and a lot of accepted wisdom/marketing is rapidly being debunked. There are some great authorities around such as Prof Tim Spector (of Covid Zoe study and app fame) who is a genetic epidemiologist at Kings College London and an authority on diet and is worth reading. His latest book ‘Spoon fed’ has a chapter on supplements which basically concludes from the evidence they are more harm than good unless you have specific illnesses eg MS and with an increasing problem of overdose given many processed foods are needlessly fortified (often to make them appear healthy when they are packed with processed fats and sugars) and that some vitamins like Vit D (which is actually a hormone) can accumulate and cause problems. I’d be reluctant to take a hormone made in a far off factory with who knows what quality control rather than say get my Vit D from 15 minutes of sunshine per day or from some oily fish or a few mushrooms.
I don't take supplements but do largely avoid processed foods and enrich my diet with foods with higher levels of polyphenols - brightly coloured fruit and veg, moderate red wine, coffee, dark chocolate etc and enrich my gut micro biome with kefir, nuts and seeds as part of a pretty normal diet. Do I feel any different, no, but I might have less of a burden of chronic disease from middle age onwards.

I take a multivit and a pretty high dose of vit D (prescribed by my neurologist). Will probably stop the multivit when the tub runs out though.

Vit D, cod liver oil and glucosamine.

A few years ago blood tests showed I had vit D and magnesium at the lower end of the range despite working outdoors all year round so I started taking a suplement of both. A recent malignant melanoma means I am now advised to cover up/use sun block while outdoors and during treatment for that my Onco advised me to double up the vit D supplement.

With the more intesive farming techniques used these days i do wonder if food contains as much vitamins and minerals as it once did

There have been studies done, showing that foods grown now contain a fraction of the nutrients they did 50 or 100 years ago. How reliable they are is another question. If true though, it's a bit scary and we could be looking at a future where we have no choice but to supplement our diets.

Nutrition always seems to be a minefield of conflicting information.

Omega 3 – because I’m veggie

Have you found a source of that which isn’t fish?

Walnuts, Chia seeds & flax seeds come to mind.

Nutrition always seems to be a minefield of conflicting information

Would agree, there is a lot of misleading information by people selling foods to maintain their profit margin. Govt lobbying/donations by some of the food industry is part of the problem. The NHS website has balanced advice on vitamin supplements.

Vitamin D in winter and omega 3 for general health.

Magnesium to help with sleep and sports.

Beta-Alanine for endurance (iirc studies show it boosts performance as much as caffeine, but you don't get a double boost if you take both, so the mechanisms are not clear).

Magnesium and beta-alanine are often taken as pre or during workout, that doesn't work they are not an instant hit, they need to be supplemented regularly and be in your system.

Walnuts, Chia seeds & flax seeds come to mind.

Handy. Ta.

ok, here goes......11 pills a day for me (when i remember)

twas a recommended 'stack' when i started weight training, due to my poor diet (not a lot of meat or veg, more protein shakes and poached eggs on toast), and altho i dont train as much now, ive carried it on.

i do know however, that when i go a couple of weeks or so without taking them (holidays, forgetfulness etc), i ache a lot more.

3 x uni-liver dessicated beef liver
chelated zinc
2 x chelated magnesium
omega 3
vitamin B12
vitamin C
vitamin D3
glucosamine and chrondoitin

dont ask me what i take em for tho, no idea. i just trusted that it was right for me at the time and that they still help me for my joints and vitamin/mineral deficiencies at 57 years of age.

I take 5g of BCAAs, 5g of creatine and Vitamin D daily. I find as I'm getting older that it helps my training and energy levels. As long as I still feel good taking it I don't see any point in stopping!

There have been studies done, showing that foods grown now contain a fraction of the nutrients they did 50 or 100 years ago. How reliable they are is another question.

These will be the utterly bogus scare stories I mentioned previously. Regularly debunked by people who know what they are talking about. Some higher yielding crops have slightly lower levels of some trace nutrients, but nothing that actually matters.

I particularly like the example of copper that is commonly quoted. Copper used to be liberally sprayed on to various crops as a fungicide (in the form of copper sulphate), contaminating the crop to a significant degree. This is no longer done to such an extent, so the copper level in the crops has dropped!

Possibly DDT levels are down too, best take a supplement!

I believe everyone in the uk should be taking vit d. I was tested a couple of years ago. Vit d 20% of normal levels.

I believe everyone in the uk should be taking vit d. I was tested a couple of years ago. Vit d 20% of normal levels

I was tested a couple of years ago too as part of my MS diagnosis. My levels were normal so unlike chvck my neurologist hasn’t prescribed Vit D (I do take loads of other meds though). It’ll be helpful for some people for sure but unlikely to be helpful for everyone.

I believe everyone in the uk should be taking vit d. I was tested a couple of years ago. Vit d 20% of normal levels.

What a strange statement ... do you think that if everyone else in the UK takes them it will help your levels? 😉

It’ll be helpful for some people for sure but unlikely to be helpful for everyone.

That sounds more sensible. For anyone it's probably worth getting seasonal bloods to see if there's a consistent deficiency .

I was tested a couple of years ago too as part of my MS diagnosis. My levels were normal so unlike chvck my neurologist hasn’t prescribed Vit D

This is actually why I have them - I have MS too. I expect it's highly neurologist dependent. Before I moved (~4 years ago) I wasn't prescribed them.

For anyone it’s probably worth getting seasonal bloods to see if there’s a consistent deficiency .

Can I get this done by my GP?

I believe everyone in the uk should be taking vit d.

What a strange statement …

Not really, i can remember reading something similar in one of the health research thingies a few years ago when i gave shit about this sort of thing, can't remember if it was due to shit diet or a phobia of the outside/exercise, but statistically speaking, giving everyone in the UK a generic multivitamin would be a net gain in health terms for the population.

I take 4-5000 IU daily sublingual of D3 + 150mg K2 during winter months (and 2-3 x week in the spring/summer if not getting in the sun), plus Mg Citrate 150-300mg most days. I also take a high quality multivit 2-3 x week with decent B vitamin levels. The reason being that I'd like my D levels to be optimal (125-200 nmol/l) based on research on populations who live in sunnier climates. The magnesium helps vit D synthesis/absorption and to calm neuro-inflammation/excitation apparently, and its often recommended due to depletion in our soils nowadays. I take the multi because, well why not? They are cheap and not doing me any harm. I eat well and may be getting enough from my food, but it's my decision. I also get my levels checked bi-annually on Thriva, as GPs are not keen to do "routine" blood tests if you aren't showing overt signs of deficiency IME. Fair enough given they are stretched, but I do believe more regular blood testing could catch issues before they cause long term effects.

Its not a strnange statement. NICE recommend it in winter.

In the uk especially scotland we do not get enough sunshine for vit d and not enough in our diet

For those taking omega-3 supplements beware of these claims:

https://www.webmd.com/prostate-cancer/news/20130710/too-much-fish-oil-might-boost-prostate-cancer-risk-study-says

I am not qualified to express an opinion on the matter beyond my understanding that excessive amounts of anything appear to be potentially harmful.

After all excessive amounts of even oxygen and water has the potential to be fatal.

You can have too much of a good thing.

Can you remember where you heard/read about this trial? I seem to remember hearing about a similar trial that came to a different conclusion but my memory is pretty hazy.

Seems there have been quite a few, see: https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/diet/antioxidants-fact-sheet

It was probably this one:

Carotene and Retinol Efficacy Trial (CARET), United States (13–15)

Initial: increased risk of lung cancer and increased death from all causes—trial ended early

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You can have too much of a good thing.

Yep - see above for anti-oxidants!

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In the uk especially scotland we do not get enough sunshine for vit d and not enough in our diet

Although that is a generalisation across a population, so there will be people who manage to get enough as they spend more time outdoors than the norm or have a better diet than the norm.

So if you spend more time than average outdoors (eg lots of outdoor activity), you may be getting enough. Also, the Scots are not exactly known for their healthy diets....

Government advice on Vit D:
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-and-minerals/vitamin-d/

I spend aot of time outdoors and have a decent diet thing is we all use sunscreen and cover up

My career has largely been in the supplements industry. I am recently retired now and suffice to say the only thing I take is an (high quality) Omega 3 supplement with added vitamin d. Why? because they have the most clinical studies proving benefits.

TJ,I barely know of anybody who uses sunscreen(regularly),or covers up for that matter!Have you ever walked around England on a sunny day?

TJ,I barely know of anybody who uses sunscreen(regularly),or covers up for that matter!Have you ever walked around England on a sunny day?

Which only leaves anyone not wandering arround topless, or the other 364 days of the year as an issue.

Anyone here take potassium as a supplement? Jens Christian Skou won the Nobel prize for discovering the Sodium Potassium pump.

I also take Zinc, Vit D and a type of Magnesium I cant remember which makes me sleep like a king.

Walnuts, Chia seeds & flax seeds come to mind.

contain ALA which is poorly converted to DHA (the important one). Fish contains DHA

Yes, but he wanted a vegetarian option.

I've started getting the sign of arthritis (perhaps inherited from a parent). So I started looking into what I could take to help my joints. Curcumin has quite a lot of buzz about it at the moment. I already add turmeric to my food when appropriate (basically just curries so far as I can tell!). However, it seems the effective dose of curcumin required is 1000mg or 1g. And only about 3% of turmeric is actually curcumin. So I would have to eat 33g of turmeric in one sitting in order to get a useful dose of curcumin, which seems like a bit much.

Yes, but he wanted a vegetarian option.

There is no veggie option for DHA

Protein - basically because I am pretty much constantly training for climbing or actually climbing - it's just belt and braces so I don't have to think about getting enough protein in my regular vegetarian diet. Also a protein shake helps kill the carb craving after a hard session