[Closed] Sunday Trading....

Great idea, when I moved back from Glasgow I forgot how stupid it was that you couldn't shop at a sensible time on a Sunday in a supermarket despite the fact the Co-Op could open. The world didn't stop turning.

Shops being closed on one of the two days people have off each week is a ridiculous and outdated idea.

surprised it didn't happen sooner, they relaxed the rules during the Olympics, and it means more staff will be needed = more jobs = more money floating about, can only be a good thing

Shops being closed on one of the two days people have off each week is a ridiculous and outdated idea.

Allowing the option is a great idea but I'm not convinced it'll create more money.

he two days people have off each week

I'd rather have a return to the old days with shops closed, a day of rest with friends, family, working in retail myself all it does is increase overheads. A day off a week from consumerism is a good thing.

In an advanced capitalist consumer society it is my inalialable right to go out and buy shit I don't need at any time convenient to myself. And if that is at 11.40 on a Sunday night then I'm sure that some migrant would be grateful of the minimum wage that he'll get for serving me, before spending the following day asleep in a shed!

In fact - dole scroungers should be forced to work night shifts and Sundays for just this eventuality or have their benefits stopped!

A day off a week from consumerism is a good thing.

I can do that whenever I please, I don't need shops to be closed to do that.

I'd rather have a return to the old days with shops closed, a day of rest with friends, family, working in retail myself all it does is increase overheads. A day off a week from consumerism is a good thing.

I'd rather have a return to the old days with shops closed, a day of rest with friends, family, working in retail myself all it does is increase overheads. A day off a week from consumerism is a good thing.

^^ This

Shops don't open here on Sundays except say the Sunday before Christmas.

It's great, love it. It's not really difficult is it to organise yourselves and make sure you have the bits you'll need for the one day the shop's are closed.

As for non-food shopping....I can think of many things I'd rather do on a Sunday that traipse around the shops.

Keep em all shut I say...apart from pubs and food places.

Fine with the idea of Sunday trading, making it under control of local authorities/mayors is nuts. Going to end up with worse anomalies than before. Just let planning regs sort out any difficulties, so if a premises is suitable on a Wednesday night, it should be on a Sunday.

Not fussed either way. I managed to not go short when shops used to be closed all day Sunday and half day Wednesday.

In fact - dole scroungers should be forced to work night shifts and Sundays for just this eventuality or have their benefits stopped!

Only unpaid of course, we don't want them having any money.

Why is Sunday special?

I'm sure [s]Germany[/s] Religion is to blame!

Never understood why there is any restriction on Sunday trading.
Seems like another outdated religious hangover really.

I often start the week weighed down and stifled by the Sunday money I have failed to spend due to the ****less, idle, bastards who can't get themselves in to work on a SUnday. What can i do with this surplus cash. I can't spend it on monday or tuesday, cos it sunday money isn't it? I can't save it, that'd be oppressing the economy. So every monday, with a heavy heart i hand it in my local conservative association who distribute it amongst needy toffs to spend on essentials like fox hunting bugles and walnut drinks cabinets for the back of their range rovers. This madness has got to stop.

Keep em all shut I say...apart from pubs and food places.

Quite right, and we'll bring back Sunday Licensing laws, 12 - 2.30 close reopen at 7.00 - 10.30, same for Xmas eve and Good Friday.

Whilst I can see a benefit to shops being open longer on a Sunday, there are another 6 days for them to open 12/24 hours a day is the 6 hours on a Sunday not long enough?

Close the shops on Sunday. This country doesn't know what to do with itself anymore.
A day out for lots of families is a trip to ikea. Witness the supermarket queues on Boxing Day. The shops were shut for one day. ****ing get over it.
When we get an inch of snow and people can't get anywhere the sledges come . People are in the street actually having fun.
Next it will be Christmas Day.
**** tescos and **** every cynical money grabbing bastard.
Ps I own a shop .

Why is Sunday special?

Because he said so! Thats why!!!

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Just thinking, if you had a predominently Jewish local council making the trading hours laws....

As for non-food shopping....I can think of many things I'd rather do on a Sunday that traipse around the shops.

That's odd i can think of many things I'd rather do Monday to Sunday than go shopping, of course sometimes we have to go and do some shopping. Having the chance to do it what might be the only day off for over a week, a Sunday, it is great to get that chance.

aslong as the same protections for religious folks for example my local jewish and muslim friends, then go all ronnie barker for all i care ..

If you want Special Sundays then close the pubs, restaurants, shops, bike shops, trail cafe's, factories, farms, garages, hospitals, fire stations and the rest.

No half measures or you're a hypocrite.

I think its wrong, and I work in retail, we never get any time off. Sunday after 4 or 5 in the bigger stores at least you can say I will be home for tea. I work in the smaller express stores these are open stupid hours 6-midnight everyday local councils need to clamp down on these, yes its a service but we coped in the old days with half day opening on Wednesday and closed on a sunday.

Someone said above we don't know what to do when the shops shut and your right, that's why we have massive credit card debt and numerous other anti-social issues, shut the shops!!

why is Sunday special

Because Sunday is the day you can get up and go for a ride on relatively deserted roads for a couple of hours until the hoards head out once the shops have opened.

I work in retail, we never get any time off.

I bet you do. Even I get time off.

Someone said above we don't know what to do when the shops shut

Bollocks!

And the penalties are so silly - fines, phht. Go all the way and burn people at the stake who shop on sundays instead of going to church. Unless they confess their hereticism, then drown them instead.

I hate shopping but when I need to go get something on one of the two days a week I have off I don't want to have to wait until 10 or 11 in the morning to start doing stuff, or suddenly realise at 16:00 I'm screwed. As other have said, having restricted opening hours on one of the two day the largest number of people have off is mad.

I'm not sure what some people point when they say make it a family day keep the shops closed. No oe is stopping you making sunday a family day, by having the shops open no one is forcing anything on you but by keeping the shops artificaly closed you are forcing something on others.

@LMT Plenty of otherindustries work 7 days a week.

Seems that the train companies/drivers are also still stuck in the 70's. If you need to provide a 24/7 service then you should ensure your staff are scheduled 24/7, not rely on OT.

[i]These include Sundays becoming part of the working week rather than being covered by drivers doing overtime.[/i]

http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/scotrail-drivers-call-for-strike-ballot-over-pay-1-3813487

Good news, probably the only good thing this government has announced. When we lived in Scotland you never noticed the extra hours, but moving back to England not being able to nip out and get what you need when you realise that you don't have something in for your lunch the next day, or you forgot something when you went on Saturday, or you run out of loo roll (blah blah blah, should be prepared, blah blah blah- life happens sometimes) is really annoying. Doesn't have to be 24 hours but it's a good idea.

I thought I was the most disorganised person in the world. Apaprently not. Somehow, almost miraculously, I manage to get to the shops when they're open.

I'd an initially foolishly assumed that this was due to the fact that, in the case of supermarkets, this is over 90% of the week.

But no. Apparently I'm just a master at organising my time. One of lifes natural planners. I probably should be running the government, or something

Can we close hospitals, fire and police stations. On Sundays as well I'd like time off with family as well. The Ambos can work taking home the drunks from A&E after a sat night 😉

binners - Member
I thought I was the most disorganised person in the world. Apaprently not. Somehow, almost miraculously, I manage to get to the shops when they're open.

We should probably stop bike races on Sundays too, TV seems a little extravagant as does Radio. In fact there should probably be a curfew.

Can we close hospitals, fire and police stations.

Tescos, the fourth emergency service.

Sunday trading in Scotland has been unregulated for decades.

Is not caused any significant issues I'm aware of.

No one is forcing you to go to the shop but its handy if they are open when you might need something

Mikes ideal Sunday....

[img] [/img]

😉

See, now if only the Indy Ref had been fought on the basis of how significant Sunday Trading £££ is, instead of oil and making stuff, Gideon would have had to back it. Quick phone Wee Nic.

more staff will be needed = more jobs = more money floating about

There won't be any more money, demand won't go up, it will just be spread more evenly though the week.

The big chains will be lobbying for this as it gives them an advantage over the little guys. Their stores are already staffed etc. overnight due to restocking and what not. So the marginal cost of opening 24/7 is relatively tiny, it's even smaller with the use of self service tills.

But smaller local shops can't compete with this, it would be impossible for the local green grocer, butcher or even newsagent to open 24/7 as it would mean doubling or tripling their workforce without the same increase in revenue.

Why do you think the giant Tesco/Adsa etc. is open 24/6 but the local Express isn't? Becuase even Tesco can't make the economic of opening a small store for that long work.

The Ambos can work taking home the drunks from A&E after a sat night

OI! 😆

nice one binners, you have that saved for special occasions?

Probably just learnt from an early age that Sunday is just another day, people work, lots and lots of people work just like any other day of the week. In England there seems to be a weird love for Sunday and thought that by closing a handful of big shops that somehow makes it more special while eating and drinking down the pub, going to cafe's and wandering round national trust estates all of which are entirely staffed by robots.

shops with the logest opening hours I know are the small guys running corner shos.

But smaller local shops can't compete with this, it would be impossible for the local green grocer, butcher or even newsagent to open 24/7

The shop we use the most is the small local convenience store (a Spar).
Mostly because it is local and open evenings, Saturdays and Sundays when we are not at work and need stuff.

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There are 24 hour supermarkets about, but if I have the option then I'm not going to get in the car and go to them when all we need is a jug of milk and some cereal.

By contrast, we use the little greengrocers next door to the Spar far less, even though it is just as handy, because it is rarely open when we are around.

As an interesting little aside, I remeber going own to our local Morrisons when it opened on Sunday morning. During my military-like logistical masterclass I operate the rest of the week, while the shops are open, I'd somehow omitted something essential for Sunday breakie.

There were quite a few people waiting for it to open.

So I grabbed what I neeeded and at I arrived at the checkout clutching my Bacon/Sausage/Black Pudding/Sunday Papers etc and then something dawned on me. I was the only person not looking like I'd been neglecting my personal hygeine for quite some time, and shaking, while clutching a bottle of Vodka/Strong cider/Pinot Grigio*

So maybe there is a need for 24/7 opening to service the nations....

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*delete as applicable

I find I need them more on a Sunday evening than a Sunday day time because I'm usually doing things I enjoy, like riding my bike, between 10 and 4 on a Sunday.

Stayed in a small French market town a couple of years ago. Don't think any shops were open past 8pm ns none at all on a Sunday. I don't recall seeing anyone starving to death.

We could solve it all and give all the people who work in the power stations Sunday off...

I'd happily see shops shut on Sundays, but if they're going to be open then just have them the same hours as normal.
It should be one thing or the other, not this 5 hours + browsing we have now for some shops while Sainsbury's Local etc. seem to just keep normal hours anyway.

Why do you think the giant Tesco/Adsa etc. is open 24/6 but the local Express isn't? Becuase even Tesco can't make the economic of opening a small store for that long work.

Our local Tesco express is open 7-11 every day (ex Xmas day).

In England there seems to be a weird love for Sunday and thought that by closing a handful of big shops that somehow makes it more special while eating and drinking down the pub, going to cafe's and wandering round national trust estates all of which are entirely staffed by robots.

Try living in Germany, nothing opens on a Sunday!

You can't buy drink in a supermarket in Scotland until 1200, or 1000, or some other random seeming deadline. I'm no alcy, but I do like the odd glass of wine with my dinner, and they make you feel like a right derro if you forget and try to buy wine with your shopping.

P.S and there are LOADS of 24hr supermarkets in Scotland too. Have fun visiting them at 0300 and watch the security guard follow you around. The one near me only has the self service tills open which is brave.

I think the logic is that they staff are there restocking the shelves, so the only additional expense is the bored security guard - who incidentally stands there and won't help you with your packing.

Shops being open normal hours on a Sunday is one of the many things I love about Scotland.

Either open as normal or not at all. My Dad was contacted to work a certain number of hours a week in a shop (in England) and if he had a Sunday shift that meant he was short on hours that week. So in a week where he had to work Sunday he only got 1.5 days off, as he had to make up the hours. If he didn't have to work a Sunday in a week he got 2 full days off.

Try living in Germany, nothing opens on a Sunday!

I think it is a shame. The poor sods working for minimum wage bleeping stuff through the till deserve a bit of a break. Tescos won't be paying extra to their zero hours contracted work force for starting at 0700 on Sunday morning. Which scuppers the chance of a couple of beers with your office working mates on Saturday.

PS I work 24/7 shifts but that doesn't mean I think everyone should.

Shops being closed on one of the two days people have off each week is a ridiculous and outdated idea.

Says someone who's clearly never worked in a shop. Would you like more than one day a week with your family? Or two days off in a row? Yes. Me too.

There won't be any more money, demand won't go up, it will just be spread more evenly though the week.

And herein lies the problem. No more demand yet an increase in staff wages. Who's gonna pay for that?

Well I'm happy with Sunday shopping, not that I do much of it unless it's raining or I need milk.

Other things to consider, well a lot of shops are already open, typically (and noted) are supermakets and corner shops, most retail outlets are open from 1030 on-wards and close at 4'ish. So no real surprise that whatever Law there is in place currently is being reviewed. Only shops closed from what I've seen are bike shops 😆 although thats just because I choose to go to s****y ones..

Thing is, even though corner sops and supermarkets are open on Sundays, it's hard to find one open before 11am in Town. For some reason it's really difficult to find an open conveinience store close by, even in Shiney Town they are closed until 11am, bit of a pain when you have nothing for breakfast 🙄
However at home we have a co-op thats always open, thing hardly ever seems shut so thats fine IMO.

Only other consideration is the push for staff to work longer hours, not keen on that as getting hold of staff is really difficult an this may fall on those already working 7 days a week and/or 70+hrs as it is.

The co-op near where I used to live opens 8-10pm on a Sunday along with most other businesses so in reality it's only aligning the last of the big shops.

Not bothered. I don't shop on Sundays and always used to survive when the shops were shut on Sundays. Pubs though!!!! That's a different matter entirely.

The people anti opening more on sundays seem to either work in shops or like to not go to the shops on sunday themselves so think no one else should or think its been like this before there for it should continue to be like this.

It would be interesting to see how many people saying 'yes' shops should open, actually work Sunday's themselves... I suspect mikewsmith has never worked a day of his life in retail.

A guaranteed day off to spending time doing what you want doesn't seem like a bad thing to me, and without it people on shitty contracts, with shitty low paid jobs will be forced into working on Sundays rather than actually living their life as they want to, as to refuse Sunday could impact how many hours they get Mon-Sat and determine if they can make ends meet.

The people anti opening more on sundays seem to either work in shops or like to not go to the shops on sunday themselves so think no one else should or think its been like this before there for it should continue to be like this.

Work weekends and nights with no extra shift allowance. But I'm one of those greedy public sector workers.

But why should retail have special dispensation for a guaranteed sunday off? As mentioned multiple times above some people work shifts/ weekends/ nights - why are retail workers so special that all those others can't be guaranteed that time? I worked ITU for 14yrs - surely i could ahve just switched the patients to idle for sundays? or asked the visitors to do observations/ turns/ drugs?

I suspect mikewsmith has never worked a day of his life in retail.

This year I've worked about 10 sundays, countless saturdays, 3 public holidays and my working day can go from about 9am till 9pm depending on who I'm working with and which time zone they are in.

But why should retail have special dispensation for a guaranteed sunday off? As mentioned multiple times above some people work shifts/ weekends/ nights - why are retail workers so special that all those others can't be guaranteed that time? I worked ITU for 14yrs - surely i could ahve just switched the patients to idle for sundays? or asked the visitors to do observations/ turns/ drugs?

Do you get paid more than £2.73 or £6.50? As we need to compare apples with apples here.

Also are you really comparing the importance of ITU with the ability to buy some corn flakes?

This year I've worked about 10 sundays, countless saturdays, 3 public holidays and my working day can go from about 9am till 9pm depending on who I'm working with and which time zone they are in.

It would be interesting to see how many people saying 'yes' shops should open, actually work Sunday's themselves... I suspect mikewsmith has never worked a day of his life in retail.

I think the point is that there is a discrepancy with retail, in fact there is a discrepancy within retail too. if we say that everything bar essential services are closed then fine, I wouldn't like it but fine. But we're not, it's currently only retail over a certain size that has to be closed, that is very strange.

Somewhat predictably its all gone a bit....

I used to work 26 hours a day, get up an hour before I'd gone to bed, walk 20 miles t'pit.......

I was countering the argument of why some have said they are entitled to some form of protected time with their families on a weekly basis and how this is an entitlement that only retail staff appear to have?

Conversley to your wage question can you check if those on the salary have undertaken extensive and specialised training such as I have to earn my salary? If so then sure, give them same wage, am happy to pay the associated rise in costs if so, but have my suspicions that vast majority won't. That enough apples with apples?

. if we say that everything bar essential services are closed then fine, I wouldn't like it but fine. But we're not, it's currently only retail over a certain size that has to be closed, that is very strange.

Conversley to your wage question can you check if those on the salary have undertaken extensive and specialised training such as I have to earn my salary? If so then sure, give them same wage, am happy to pay the associated rise in costs if so, but have my suspicions that vast majority won't. That enough apples with apples?

OK to try and get my point across better; as you are fortunate enough to have a salary and a stable income and not everyone is.

If your job paid min wage as the going rate and your weekly hours were dependent on working when it was convenient with your boss, and you needed the job more than your employer needed your labor (Think of Jermey Hunts ideal NHS model). Would you welcome extra hours on a Sunday? bearing in mind you wouldn't really have a choice over working Sundays or not.

. if we say that everything bar essential services are closed then fine, I wouldn't like it but fine. But we're not, it's currently only retail over a certain size that has to be closed, that is very strange.

This is the point that most of the close sunday lot are hastily avoiding, anyone care to take that on???

Sounds similar to the public vs private sector pension discussions; where I have a shit pension, public sector workers have a great pension, so we should all have shit pensions and be happy to live on dog food in our old age!

Should be one or the other not bizarre setup we currently have. Personally I don't mind the idea of the shops being closed as maybe for the good of the nation it would be a good thing. Then again it gets complicated as should it also mean that petrol stations, pubs, etc, etc should also be closed?

Maybe the rule should be that everything is open and all days are classed as the same but employees must have at least 1 day off a week.

I do sometimes think that the individual does not always know best and we do need to be told what is best for us. Maybe it would make the nation happier. We as a nation don't have to be part of the race to the highest level of commercialisation.

It would be interesting to see how many people saying 'yes' shops should open, actually work Sunday's themselves..

I work any day of the week including bank holidays and heaven forbid Xmas. It means I get days off during the week which is pretty good as loads of places are quiet. Those saying the work in retail do realise if you work a Sunday you'll get another day off instead so still manage to not be at work.

As for not getting out drinking with mates or work mates as you'll work a Sunday, well funny I've just booked a works day out on a Thursday this afternoon. Yeah crazy stuff not booking on a weekend.

Those saying the work in retail do realise if you work a Sunday you'll get another day off instead so still manage to not be at work.

My concern would be that according to the ONS ~61% of women are employed in retail, so a day off in week rather than a weekend means that these women wouldn't get a single day off with there kids or partner as most people in the UK work Mon->Fri. OK, they could go shopping when its quiet, but surely they should at least have the option of seeing their kids for a full day?

Think about it, 61% of working mothers potentially not spending a whole day with there kids just to allow some people to get some corn flakes on Sunday...

But rich, wage aside, that is exactly what several people have said - I know I worked on a rota system, as do most services staff, which I had no control over except to try and get my leave requests accepted if I was lucky. So I have worked most of my career dependent on when it has been convenient for my boss, with no option to say it was unfair or I was entitled to the same day off every week without being reminded of how replaceable I was.

As another example I know of several qualified nurses who had to take supermarket jobs until could get nursing posts due to recent recruitment freezes, so it's not that disimilar for a lot of non-retail staff. Similarly there have been periods where trained physio's were coming out of training to no jobs so they needed jobs more than employers needed them.

Unfortunately modern life is very much a 24/7 affair, and like others I think it should be all or nothing. Local Tesco metro is open 6:00-23:00 7 days week yet the sainsburys up street has oldie worldie sunday trading hours - should be all same or nothing.

Shops can close on Sunday if they like, nothing stopping them. Working Sunday IME isn't too bad, as you still get a day off some other day.

I don't really get this rejection of Sunday as a common day when shops have traditionally closed, as if every day is exactly the same, simply on the basis that it might privilege Christianity.

We divide up time into units based on the sun and the moon. Our months are (by-and-large) lunar, made up of four weeks (with day adjustments made in to order to match the solar year). A week has a beginning and an end. The Day of the Sun was identified by Semitic tribes, Greeks, and Romans alike as a convenient marker for the first day of a week. This was later taken up by Christians as the day on which they would gather for the Eucharist.

Only later did it take on specifically sabbatarian connotations. But the idea that as much work as possible should be contained within certain days so that the community could share in a day without work is ancient.

We may have decided as a society that we no longer want such days, but I can't see dismissing them simply because some see them as a 'religious hangover'.

Its great for manufacturing.

Being a consumer lead economy, manufacturing extra hours so we can all spend more money on useless tat that helps keep this bizarre economy's head just about above water is what's needed.

Bit old hat though when there is the internet.

Out of interest do you have kids at school?

Yes 2. I see more of them sometimes midweek as I pick them up from 3 just like I'm doing now.

Keep your facts out of here Drac...

[b]ziggy [/b]
I'd rather have a return to the old days with shops closed, a day of rest with friends, family, working in retail myself all it does is increase overheads. A day off a week from consumerism is a good thing.

This by a mile.

I've worked in retail and Sundays were always awful. The shop workers deserve to have a bit of rest for themselves! Even now I try and do any shopping away from the weekend as it's just far too stressful with all the families clogging up the place. The big supermarkets are open from 8am Monday until 10pm Saturday, how many hours of the week do you need to get enough food for the week!

I actually try to work my weekends as it gives me a day or two off in the week, I find them much more valuable but then I have no kids to keep entertained. Quiet midweek trails are bliss 8)

The shop workers deserve to have a bit of rest for themselves!

During the week when the trails are bless?