[Closed] summer rugby

I think Johnny has better range than Halfpenny, I saw him land two from the halfway line out wide to send Leicester out of the H-Cup. Farrell is very steady but doesn't have a long range kick. Halfpenny has been outstanding but the commentary team said it was a 45m kick, not so huge and hardly a repeat of Steyn's kick in South Africa.

It was 53m wasn't it, no way is sexton as reliable or has greater range.
I think SA may have been at altitude!

By the way, Staurt Barnes - [s]excellent player, good guy, great student of the game[/s] is a ****.

FIFY

The advantage thing has been an issue but you can always have a drop goal pop if you want 3 points, advantage counts if it doesn't go over. Half penny is a little short on range, I wonder how far north can kick the ball?

53m, OK. SA test definitely at altitude but Steyn has a huge boot and those points won that series for them.

I'm still lost as to the advantage rule, I confess it's a while since I've seen a scrum half deliberately knock on but this seems a no brainer to me.

"But Sexton - from two half-breaks - made by far the most metres (41) in attack (the next highest was Sean O'Brien with 17m, and he was only on for the last 16 minutes)"

😯

Half penny is a little short on range

this is just pure bollocks, 1/2p started out for Wales as the long range pot shotter before he became the full time kicker, he's got a huge boot on him that kick was from 1/2 way and on the angle. It was never more than a 1 in 10 kick imo. Had 1/2p not been there they wouldn't have taken it on.

Gav would have got it mind 😆

11.50 here, that's a bloody long kick 55m-60m according to aussie comentators

another couple of examples of his poor range

Wasn't he on about the range of 1/2ps drop goal ability a_a?

don't think so

Yes he does have a long range, however on Saturday, not long enough.
I'm not saying anyone else would have got it, but it was clearly a reach too far for 1/2p

but it was clearly a reach too far for 1/2p

I thought they should have taken the tap, run some phases and gone for the drop-goal (either by 1/2p or Sexton - whoever was available and in position to take it) rather than gamble it all on a 45m place kick. The match was lost anyway. I'm not saying anything against 1/2p of course - his kicking displays have been amazing (IMO) but I had no faith that he was going to make the range yesterday.

I thought they should have taken the tap, run some phases and gone for the drop-goal (either by 1/2p or Sexton - whoever was available and in position to take it) rather than gamble it all on a 45m place kick.

I totally agree except that it was much longer than 45m and I don't think I've ever seen 1/2p drop a goal so Sexton could have had that pleasure!!

I totally agree except that it was much longer than 45m

Oh right, cheers. I stand corrected. Sorry, I had 45m in my head for some reason.

Glitch

This has got to be my favourite long range kick 🙂

[url= http://www.rugbydump.com/2010/05/1418/francois-steyns-monster-drop-goal-against-clermont ]Best long range kick ever[/url]

Video is lower down the page

AA good article for dean ryan

my point for vunipola was and is mentally he could have completely cracked, gone awol and been a penalty fest.
Mental toughness and resilance should be admired as integral to the game hence why the public schools love the game!

Ryan said Vunipola being shoved out the side of the scrum, wing forward should be shoving him back in and supporting. Vunipola was hitting square according to Ryan as he was told by the ref.

Grant is a decent scrummmager BUT is a average player at the breakdown and round the field, gave a lot of penalities away midweek game that we lost. Saw a lot of Scotland playing live last winter and grant was not a player I would have choosen for the lions

Hibbert is a better scrummager than Youngs but his throwing has suffered and young is better around the pitch, all about balance.

Corbesario is the answer to the prop if fit.

Backrow is area of concern...balance is all wrong , no cohesion at the moment though some good individual performances.

12/13 is a worry as we are not creating much.

Halfpenny has range and constancy better than Jonny W Halfpenny is a better runner than he being allowed to show.

Gatland has got lots wrong possibly picking Farrell is one them.

Twelvetrees for centre.................

Best long range kick

Paul Thorburn

I would rather nobody linked that Thorburn kick;I was there and I was NOT willing it over. 👿

LOL duckman so was I and in total agreement with you but still the best long range kick

Here's my 24 hours too late thoughts after finally watching the game:

What is there in attack for us?! Didn't even looking like scoring a try. Defence was excellent, but only Youngs and to a lesser extent Heaslip and Mako from the forwards looked capable of making a single yard.

Warburton had his best game on tour for me-ref suited him more though.

For me SOB has to replace Lydiate next week. Roberts in for Davies and Carbs back if fit too. Maybe Grey to get a start-can't see it though.

Not been blown away by Sexton at all in the tests.

Gatland has got lots wrong possibly picking Farrell is one them.

Twelvetrees for centre.................

Comment 1 like what? Who should have gone ahead of Farrel?

Twelvetrees my arse, besides they could have had the combined clones of Sella, Guscott and Frank Bunce in the centre it wouldn't have mattered the front five don't get the ball, the backrow was fine imo, problems started and finished with 1-5.

Shaun Edwards

36 was a 😉

MIKE PHILLIPS: I thought a knee injury in the first game ended my tour... but I'll be ready for the Sydney decider if I get the call

By MIKE PHILLIPS

PUBLISHED: 21:05 GMT, 29 June 2013 | UPDATED: 21:05 GMT, 29 June 2013

When Rob Howley told me I hadn’t been selected for the second Test it was absolutely devastating news. My heart sank and I had a weird feeling in my stomach. It was incredibly hard to watch from the stands on Saturday, especially after being involved last week. I thought the boys did brilliantly, but it wasn’t to be.

I’m desperate to play next week, of course, but whether the coaches make that call is up to them. They know the extent of the injury to my knee and it’s their call if I play. If they ask me to, I will.

Rob said the coaches had taken the decision to rest me from Saturday’s game because of my knee, but I’m a proud man and I still felt I could have done a job for the team. I told him I felt I could have played but it was 20 minutes before the rest of the squad were going be told the starting XV, so I knew there was nothing I could do to change anything. But it hurt not being involved.

Next week is the series decider and there’s everything to play for. It was agonising watching Leigh Halfpenny’s last kick fall short. I’m not a great watcher at the best of times and I’m sure all the guys in the stand would have felt they could have made a difference if they’d been out there playing.

Obviously, the coaches wanted to make sure there were 15 fully fit guys out on the pitch. I’m not 100 per cent fit, but then professional rugby players rarely go into games 100 per cent. If I’d been asked to play, I’d have played. The same goes for next week.

I had an injection on Tuesday with the aim to be fit for the second Test. The reaction to it has been great but unfortunately the coaches decided not to play me. It’s frustrating, but ultimately I have to respect the coaches’ decision.

I know I didn’t have my best game last week — it certainly wasn’t a man-of-the-match performance — but I still contributed and we won the game. Overall I’ve been happy with the way I’ve been playing on tour and during the Six Nations and I felt like I might get another shot. But you have to respect the decision. It’s their call at the end of the day.

I picked up the injury in the first half of the Barbarians game. It twisted and I felt something go and since then I’ve just been trying to get it to settle down. Initially it swelled up like a balloon on the flight from Hong Kong and I’m sure the medical guys thought, ‘This isn’t good’ and that they would have to send me home.

I was icing it constantly in the days after that game and doing everything the medics were telling me to do. I compressed it, iced it, missed a couple of games. I did everything to make sure I stayed on the tour and in the end I managed to do that.

It was pretty scary at the start. I was thinking, ‘I’m going to be sent home after one game here’. I think everyone feared the worst but I was determined to stay on the tour and worked really hard to make sure I stayed part of it. I told myself, ‘You’re not going home, no way’. It has got better and it’s been manageable.

The injury has been hanging over me all tour, to be honest. I’ve not really left the hotels at all and when people have been asking me if I’ve been having a good time, I’ve said ‘Yes’ when deep down it’s been pretty annoying.

In some games I haven’t been able to bend my knee properly, but then it’s got a bit better and at the end of the day this is the British Lions tour so, of course, I’ll do everything to try and get on to the field.
Now it’s caught up with me, I suppose.

The coaches have said, ‘Make sure you’re ready for next week’, so that’s what I’ll be trying to do. I’ll train hard and do everything I can to get out on the field.

I don’t want people to think I’m making excuses for anything. We’ve known the score about the severity of the injury from day one. People know what I’ve been dealing with.

It’s upsetting, devastating, of course it is, but I knew I’d been carrying this throughout the tour, so there was always a risk it might catch up with me. Every player here wants to be picked in the Test team and having played in four Tests previously I desperately wanted another crack at it. It’s only natural that I’m disappointed because I’m a competitive person and that’s what’s got me here.

I’ve just got to get myself 100 per cent right and train hard and make sure I’m in the frame for selection for the third Test.

It’s been a tough tour because the knee has been on my mind a lot of it. It’s so frustrating. I felt so sharp in the first game, exactly where I wanted to be.

I don’t want people feeling sorry for me or thinking that I’m making excuses. It is what it is. I played in the first Test and we won so no one can take that away from me.

I would also be interested to know the current laws/ guidelines on playing advantage and calling advantage over.

It seems to differ between referees but this may just be my cynical view. Most call advantage over when the ball is kicked regardless of the type or quality of kick for example whereas other referees look to see if significant territory was gained. Just one example but it still seems a little grey. Deliberate knock ons to end advantage seem to get mixed outcomes so most teams try to keep play going. So what is the proper laws/ guidleines?

Clearly Lydiate at fault

[img] [/img]

Can't see that Lydiate was at fault there, although I'm puzzled as to what he did yesterday. Someone said that he'd made more tackles in 40 mins yesterday than Croft did in 80 in the first test....he can't have done much second half then given that he only made 10 tackles.

Mako was top tackler for us with 15. Parling and BOD made 14 and Hovis 11. Adam managed a staggering 4 ffs! Cole made 6 in the 20 mins he was on the pitch. Horwill was top tackler for them with 10(I thought that he was excellent).

Gah glitchy¡!!!!!!!!!

Again will repeat

From that scrum and pass to recover and play the full 80mins complete mental toughness

Well done vuniploa......

Suprised at the parking stat

From that scrum penalty to Lions for binding on arm surely?

Agree Vondally he bounced back well...although under a different ref he'd probably have been in the bin for constantly failing to drive straight!

He started his first game in the prem this year and only had 1 test start prior to the Lions series. Pretty awesome to think what a combo him and Tom Youngs could turn into.

From that scrum penalty to Lions for binding on arm surely?

The aussie could have bound to his arse as that was what was in the air!
Lydiate had a good game made some excellent tackles eg on Falou early, hit rucks and made a few good carries in close. Must have been on his knees by the end having played tuesdat too.

Mako was top tackler for us with 15. Parling and BOD made 14 and Hovis 11. Adam managed a staggering 4 ffs!

Stats - what did we do without them!!

The difference between Vunipola and Adam Jones is that one is the best prop in the world and the other shouldn't be playing test rugby as he cannot scrummage!

In the future Vunipola could be an awesome player but please don't pick him for the third test. We need a front five who can scrummage - should be Corbs (if fit, if not, Grant), Hibbard, Jones , AWJ, Gray (or Evans).

Hibbard? Only if Mako is starting. Otherwise it's brainless not to start youngs.

Hah Hibbard, yeah good one 😆

Agreed that Adam is one of the best scrummagers in the game. Unfortunately the scrum isn't the only thing that happens in a game. One prop out tackling the other four to one is piss poor imo.

Good article above by Dean Ryan.
The Oz front row got on top by working together, as a unit.
All 3 driving left to put pressure on one prop.
He did well to come back from that, but 3-on-1 is not really a problem that he could sort himself. Gotta give some credit to AJ and the rest of the tight five in putting pressure back on the Ozzies. Team game there, and that's the only way out of that sort of situation.
Very strange that Mako stayed on for the full 80 though. Confidence work by the management, or do they really not rate Grant at all?
It makes not phoning Sheridan look madder by the day.

Looks like good news on Corb's injury.
More importantly, Roberts too. The Davies at Twelve experiment has failed miserably.
Twice.
http://www.espn.co.uk/lions-tour-2013/rugby/story/188275.html

Grant is Scottish,so he won't play. if Grey doesn't make the cut in front of parling then picking Scots for the lions is basically an exercise in trying to maximize replica kit sales north of the border until the series is over. As for vunipola, I am delighted he tackled more than Adam,but he didn't do the first job of a prop and he never dominated or looked comfy against his opp. Hibbard came on to shore him up; what sort of a sub is that to have to make? Subs should be ideally made to gain a tactical advantage,that was to address a weakness.

Agreed that Adam is one of the best scrummagers in the game. Unfortunately the scrum isn't the only thing that happens in a game. One prop out tackling the other four to one is piss poor imo.

no its farly usual with loose and tightheads. Adam is easily the most important player for Wales and the lions. Would be a great stat to add up points for and against in this and the last tour when adam is on or not.

Hah Hibbard, yeah good one

Agreed that Adam is one of the best scrummagers in the game. Unfortunately the scrum isn't the only thing that happens in a game. One prop out tackling the other four to one is piss poor imo.

If the game next Saturday wasn't so important then I would ignore this post.
However, this, unfortunately, is how I think the Lions' coaches see the game also and it could cost us a series we should have won 3-0.

I don't think Vunipola is a poor scrummager per se. He is just too wet behind the ears at this level. A Lions test is no place to be schooled in the dark arts by seasoned internationals which is exactly what's happening. We've just got to keep our fingers crossed that Corbs is fit. I need to see Tuilagi get a run out on saturday. We severely lack penetration and that's precisely what he brings. I'm betting he gets a bench spot for the test.

Warbs is out of the final test.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/23111990
Feel bad for the bloke, he's just started to hit some form. What do we reckon for 7, SOB or Tips?

Warburton out, hamstring tear. Edit hadn't seen wreckers post!

Q & A with Adam;

Q: What's the strangest tactic someone's tried on you in a scrum? (from paulj)

A: About 10 years ago I was playing up at Leicester with Neath. Basically I wasn't the svelte, ripped specimen of a man I am now. Every time we had a scrum in front of the main stand, their loose-head, a guy called Derek Jelley, would lift my shirt up, exposing my stomach to the whole crowd. I swear I could hear the chuckles from him and them. It was slightly embarrassing.

😀

😆

For me O'Brien has to start, as does Corbisero if fit, Grey in the 2nd row in place of Parling, Roberts in at 12 and Tuilagi on the bench.

Different people but Tom Smith only had 3 caps for Scotland before the Lions tour in 97 and he was the test prop for all 3 games...as I said different people and different tour...

Interesting article from someone who knows more about scrummaging than any of us lot;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/britishandirishlionsrugby/10151333/Lions-2013-No-winners-in-this-scrum-lottery.html

As i said earlier, I don't think the scrum was well refereed. Mako should have seen what was being permitted a bit earlier and employed his own skullduggery. As I said, he's a little naive.

An eye-opening comment (if it's true);

Apart from making as many yards as both wingers combined, making the most tackles, beating the most defenders, getting more turnovers than any of the flankers, winning a couple of penalties in the scrum and playing for 80 minutes, Mako didn't do much.

Just to add a bit more context to the part about metres carried. As i posted earlier aside from Sexton at 40+m, Sean O'Brien made the most metres with 17, and he was only on for the last 16 minutes.

So Vunipola made less than 17m and the wingers combined less again.

Highlights how little ball North and Bowe got and how much of a struggle it was to get over the gainline in general, hopefully it shows Gatland of the need for a Roberts/Tualigi in the backline and OBrien starting in the backrow.

EDIT: regarding the naive scrumaging from Vunipola i think that is where O'Connell was really missed, an experienced player to have a quiet word with him and try and sort it earlier on.

Thing is he had two more experienced front rows with him esp Jones who l am sure would have known exactly what the Aussies were up to. Mentioning tom smith; he was schooled at Dundee high rugby clip by danny Herrington,who played Scotland b despite being a 13 Stone loose or tight head.a 5"9" stonemason who never set foot in a gym in his life.Smith went to watsonians then england but left Dundee as he couldn't shift danny. I was playing behind Herrington when watsons came back to Dundee. 1st scrum, smith dropped his bind and tore the pocket off Danny's shirts 😀 on trying to return the favour,danny discovered tom had sewn the pocket up! Front rows...not really normal,are they?

Maybe that is the answer to scum problems, get pockets back on shirts!

An eye-opening comment (if it's true);
Apart from making as many yards as both wingers combined, making the most tackles, beating the most defenders, getting more turnovers than any of the flankers, winning a couple of penalties in the scrum and playing for 80 minutes, Mako didn't do much.

its not true though it also doesnt mention points given away!

The Brian Moore article does. (Genuine question) Which of those stats are wrong? Did the contributor make it up?

Nice to see a referee get (most) of the scrum decisions correct.

Vunipola turned it around brilliantly, but Joubert still pinged him when he turned in.

Big respect to Adam Jones, though - he helped turn the scrummaging situation around and was immense. One aerial shot showed him just smashing Moore and the loosehead apart like a nail splitting a plank of wood!

Hibbard came on to shore him up; what sort of a sub is that to have to make? Subs should be ideally made to gain a tactical advantage,that was to address a weakness.

I'm baffled by this to.
I'm not commenting on the abilities of Mako or Grant, personally I rate them both, but surely the substitution to make here is Grant for Mako.
I can only see that he [u]really[/u] doesn't want Grant on the pitch, or he was carrying a secret injury. Either way, he shouldn't really be there then, and it's a wasted bench spot.
Have to wonder about your shirt-sales tokenism theory?
No fan of G*** and the way he's treated some of the other players, but have to agree that Gray, Hogg and Grant have all had the shittiest end of the stick. Don't include Maitland as G*** knows him from back home.

Albanach - Member
Different people but Tom Smith only had 3 caps for Scotland before the Lions tour in 97 and he was the test prop for all 3 games...as I said different people and different tour...

forgot about that. Good point.

wrecker,
Whilst BM has the experience, he's also got a massive agenda against current scrum laws.
He's been banging the same drum every week, using whatever selection of "facts" to back up his own beef with them.
Not saying he's wrong, but he's far from a balanced analyst.
It's never a look at the data, then some conclusions based on it. It's "The scrums aren't like they used to be - this week because of blah, blah, blah..."

Feel bad for the bloke, he's just started to hit some form. What do we reckon for 7, SOB or Tips?

Both, at 6 & 7.
Get some attacks going and try and cross the gain-line a bit more.
Tuilagi to start at 12 too, with Roberts to come on later when they're softened up a bit.
Probably need to keep BOD out there now having lost two captains, otherwise I'd reckon Roberts 12, Manu 13 from the off. 🙂

Whilst BM has the experience, he's also got a massive agenda against current scrum laws.

Both, at 6 & 7.

Tuilagi to start at 12 too, with Roberts to come on later when they're softened up a bit.

As for capt, I've said it before and I'll say it again. Adam.

Corbs
Youngs
Jones
Gray
AW Jones
SOB
Tipuric
Faletau
Murray
Sexton
North
Tuilagi
BOD
Bowe
Halfpee

Mako
Hubbard
Cole
Lydiate
Youngs
Roberts
JDavies
Zebo

Bit harsh on Heaslip who , IMO, would be one of the few Lions to make a Combined team from the first 2 tests. Mowen and Hooper have been brilliant, IMO, but Jamie's been better than their 8.
But, their back row's on top overall, and we need SOB and Tipuric to put them on the back foot, So faletau's in for a bit more grunt. won't let anyone down. Not quite as much need for JH's carries in a side with SOB and manu/JR on the charge. And We haven't got a hooker who can throw past second jumper, so not as critical at LO either.

Harsh on Grant and Farrell too, but if they're not thought highly enough of to get some minutes so far, might as well have someone else.
Lydiate to cover 5 and 6 giving room for a bit more variety in the backs.
Zebo covers 11, 14, 15 (or switch Bowe) ; JR &JD 10,12,13.
JS back up kicker to LH

Good team Loum, but you have unfortunately forgot Gatlands first rule of team selection, minimum 60% Welsh in starting XV 🙂

Vunipola didnt win the scrum pens even if it was there tighthead going down. The scrum turnaround started with adam and then cole who blitzed their scrum. The pressure all ends on the aussie tighthead. Vunipola was pretty much a passenger in all this.

Ioum no ten cover you really need to lay down that crack pipe.

JR &JD 10

Farrel for JD then , easy.

you really need to lay down that crack pipe.

It's your mum's. 😉 🙂

unfortunately forgot Gatlands first rule of team selection, minimum 60% Welsh in starting XV

Unfortunately true. Worst thing to happen to the Lion's since Woodward. But probably even worse.
Undone all the good work of Geech in repairing 2005's eff-up.
Divisive, pigheaded, antagonistic A-hole.
And this on what should be the easiest and most laid back of the three tours.
turns Ozzies against us, even turns fellow Brits.
Turns a 4 yearly celebration of rugby into a "win at all costs Or future tours are jeapodised" showdowns.
Even the IRB , with Horwill, have had to get involved to help Lions victory, and keep the tours on.
Should not be allowed back to these Isles. 😉 🙂

Can I borrow it? 😀

My mum called and said you can keep the pipe you need it more than her!

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/23134485 ]Ban the cheating, stamping scum. Now. Don't care if we win or not as a result, but this should be punished;[/url]

Arriving late to the Mako scrummage debate, as any good prop should 😀

Look at his hips on engagement, that sounds rude, anyway ever since my first day at prop school aged eleven and being a bit rounder than others in the class one of the first lessons was keep your hips at least level with your shoulders if not lower so that you are pushing up into the loose heads chest. This is simple stuff and is nothing to do with how the ozzies are scrumming. It's just setting up properly for the hit.

I reckon Gats will go tips then SOB after 60 or so. Would love to see Manu get a start but don't think it will happen.

anagallis_arvensis - Member
My mum called and said you can keep the pipe you need it more than her!

POSTED 5 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

Why? Is your Mum getting enough pipe? (SORRY,I know infantile,childish etc;but we are on Holiday...and I'm off up to Skye tmw with 3 [s]drinking[/s] [b]climbing[/b] buddies for a couple of days of hills as Mrs D still has the rest of the week to go. Do you think getting home Sat pm and dumping a rucksack full of muddy stinking clothes by the washing machine,dropping into a chair with a beer and watching the taped game might be kicking the arse out of it?

getting home Sat pm and dumping a rucksack full of muddy stinking clothes by the washing machine,dropping into a chair with a beer and watching the taped game

Must be accompanied by the phrase "BEER ME!"
Have a good time duckman 😀

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/23139565 ]OH FFS!!!!![/url]

"There was sufficient evidence upon which a reasonable judicial officer could have reached the decision," said independent appeal officer Graeme Mew.

"Accordingly it could not be said that the judicial officer was manifestly wrong or that the interests of justice otherwise required his decision be overturned."

Justice.

**** me Horwill cleared!!

Cockerill has been banned for nine games for acting like a wendyballer during the final though!

Farce. What next, AWJ to be cited for head butting Horwills studs?

Justice.

I'm assuming that was sarcastic...

Farce. What next, AWJ to be cited for head butting Horwills studs?

An utter, utter farce. There's no way that was anything OTHER than a deliberate stamp on the face. Not impressed at all.

1st Lions kick off straight to Horwill, swiftly followed by 8 large men walking off balance over the top?

CaptainFlashheart - Member
Farce. What next, AWJ to be cited for head butting Horwills studs?
An utter, utter farce. There's no way that was anything OTHER than a deliberate stamp on the face. Not impressed at all.

Agreed.

ijs445ra - Member
1st Lions kick off straight to Horwill, swiftly followed by 8 large men walking off balance over the top?

Obviously 8 citings followed by bans......

Shame that Healy and Hartley aren't there in a way. Would have been right up their alley. Can they call up Mongo or Grewcock for a "special" mission?
EDIT; Even better, JIM HAMILTON 😀

Nathan Hines is always good for a bit of on pitch enforcement as well.

Unfortunately both Hines and Hamilton are Scottish and would therefore be restricted to throwing Lions training kit/mascot from the bench in attempted retribution. 🙂

EDIT; Even better, JIM HAMILTON

Can't wait to see what happens with him at Montpellier this season. The two old second row card-magnets; Privat and Martin have left and Gorgodze is starting to mellow with age. 😆

I like Jim Hamilton. He's a [i]proper[/i] second row.
I'd have toured him ahead of Parling, possibly Evans too.

wrecker - Member
Shame that Healy and Hartley aren't there in a way. Would have been right up their alley. Can they call up Mongo or Grewcock for a "special" mission?
EDIT; Even better, JIM HAMILTON

😆

MONGO SMASH!

Some big Jim magic at 0;17 and 1;04. He has no filter at all, has he?

Yep. He'll fit in nicely in the Top14!