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Back in the amateur game a bit of cheating was all part of the fun but as the professional era dawned and the game got a lot faster / harder the tolerance for such things has been sliding. The direction of travel on these issues is against the big cheating Aussie and I was shocked he got away with it. The appeal makes a lot of sense to me. IRB taking a stand as to how such things should be interpreted. IMO what Horwill did is now completely unacceptable although was part of the game 20 years ago. Canadian QC to rule on the appeal I will be shocked again if he isn’t banned for the 3rd test.
There were, and are some expectations by players of a bit of naughty. I know that if I'm on the wrong side, I'll still probably get a bit of a shoeing. I know that there is a likelihood of being punched especially if I'm doing my job. One thing that (to my mind) has never been and will never be acceptable is high tackles. I am not prepared to accept that it's part of rugby. I generally play with a smile and like to enjoy the game. There is [i]very[/i] little which occurs on the field which will make me properly violent. The exception is a high tackle. If I receive one; I'm punching someone and that's it.
I don't see how they IRB can not ban Horwill. It's on video FFS. He's done it in one of the most high profile rugby games of the year. They have to send the message that it's unacceptable.
Funny how a high tackle was always frowned upon but a bit of a shoeing to the face was for years part of the game.
I’m getting squeaky bum re tomorrow’s game already.
I was on the plane home (from the Caribbean) today, and the bloke sitting next to me was on a connections based trip to Aus to meet with friends and watch the tests tomorrow - a 30hr trip to Gatwick, Heathrow, Hong Kong and then Aus.
Yet becuase tomorrow is designated "post holiday rest day" Mrs K is allowing me to reside on the Sofa for the Lions matched followed by and afternoon of the Grand Depart. *much grinning*
Funny how a high tackle was always frowned upon but a bit of a shoeing to the face was for years part of the game.
Different from when/where I played. Boot face interactions would result in a fight, high tackles would not normally if it was one of those accidental arm out type of things. Tip tackles were positively encouraged!
I once got sent off after smacking a guy who kicked one of our players in the face, he got sent off too. I did not recieve a ban, he did.
I once got sent of for a tip tackle too but that was in a touch rugby tournament 😳
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IMO,Face was always out of order, from memory of the second tier of Engerland rugby in the 90's; biting,stamping on anything, testicular cancer checks and at least one all in a game. Things were especially interesting for a couple of years after the grand slam. The dirtiest games I ever played in were London Scottish v Welsh.They were just over the park and we used to play them a couple of times a year.
A shoeing for lying on the wrong side of the ruck was part of the game when I played. More than a few times I've had deep welts on my back. The odd punch in retaliation for some naughtiness too.
Unacceptable in my book was swinging arm high tackles, genitailia, gouging.
I got banned for 6 weeks for repeatedly punching the opposition 6 when he gouged me for the 2nd time in the first 10 minutes. The ref apparently saw no evidence of apart from the fact he had his thumb in my eye socket whilst I was still punching him. Lets say the after match dinner was "interesting".
I don't think ice ever finished a game without stud marks up and down my back.
wrecker - MemberI don't think ice ever finished a game without stud marks up and down my back.
Well you must have done a lot of lying over the ball on the wrong side then. 🙂
sorry if its been asked but are there any decent live feeds similar to the cyclingfans site ??
cricfreetv seems ok for a feed
cheers. 2 hour ride now , then lions, then moto gp then tour....busy day 🙂
Worried about a lack of grunt in the front five this week. Without POC a big lump like an on form Bradley Davies would be nice. Shame those cheating kiwis and a bad anklewrecked his season. Hope Lydiate can step it up too.
woohoo! a mate has giving me his online sky login for the weekend while he's at PDS so I can actually watch the test today!
And then the Tdf on ITV4.
OMG Im not leaving the house....
Agreed, the skill and experience of POC is a big loss. This is going to be very tense, Australia will fancy their chances in the scrum and with ball in hand, the breakdown will depend on the ref. Lions must play pressure rugby with high discipline, Halfpenny will deliver, the Aussie kicker whoever it is will be under huge pressure.
Perhaps yesterday wasn't the best day to change the hard drive on the computer - fingers crossed I can reboot from original - no satellite option here 🙁 ...
Shame we didn't also take that big Scottish lump for the second row either. Parling and WA Jones looks a weak pairing to me, both good players but not sure they will work well together.
Does anyone have a decent live stream for those outside the UK?
@DanW - look back in this thread - wizig or something plus above - don't download anything - I think even my Mac got a few gremlins after last week (my ownership of the hard drive was revoked and trash directory dissappeared.
PS Booted from original HD, machine running sweet with 4x memory now - I knew you all wanted an update 😉
Not great so far
Replace vunipola quick
Not having any luck with any of the wiziwig streams or any others I can find on google 🙁
Does anyone have a working link for outside the uk?
Interesting comments from Wallace at half time that Aussies are conning the ref at the scrum, Vinipola actually having a decent game. Hope he's right !
One more half boys to close it out ...
Time for Vunipola to leave the field
Play smart take penalty via drop goal attempt.
Our scrum is a major problem, we are living on the edge here
We need Jones to stay on and make some changes
Great start from Murray
What's the score? I'm in Florida
Great start from Murray
Just about to say the same thing...my stream is obviously three minutes behind though 😆
LOL @ NOrth 😀
Its like those bits in Die Hard films where the baddie is used as a bullet shield.
What a kick. Lions, lions !!!
Lions win a scrum penalty without Jones, we of little faith. I couldn't watch the kick too wound up. Come on Lions.
gah!
I wouldnt bet the farm on the Lions scrum right now 🙁
weeps
Ah balls
😯
I can't watch
ermegurd!!!
Nothing more than they deserve there. All been the home side most of this half, out played our back row all day. Hey-ho; all for Sydney next week.
Outplayed the back row? Seriously? I think the lack of a lineout and scrum chaos were the big factors.
Well played Aussies. But bllx!!!!
I think the lack of a lineout
+1
It was chaotic - that last one 😐
another great test match.........wonderful
man of the match vinuopla
dragged himself from being awful in the extreme at points
BOD kicked away the advantage....bad bad choice
Cole was surprisingly good
B Youngs subsitiuted after a A Jones furious moment to Warbs...youngs far too slow at the put in and not accurate
wonderful tackling from Lions
Back row was much better than last week, lydiate was weak in supporting Vinupola at the srum.
Parling no POC, line out dire
looking forward for next week
Sam Warburton has a nice English accent 🙂
Disappointed though.
Hookers have to hit their men, (says the ex hooker). Driscoll and Davies great in defense but Aussies were more exciting to watch with the ball. They deserved the win.
Tackle carry of the series North on Foleau............... 😀
Joubert excellent ref display
Can't complain at that really. Again we lacked penetration, very conservative in our game plan. Warbs had a good game this week being allowed to do what he does best. Missing POC and Corbs massively. Personally, ill be very disappointed if I don't get to see Manu run at these wallabies next week.
Tackle carry of the series North on Foleau
Big gamble picking a player up when you can't control how you put him down.
Could easily have got himself sent off and left his team a man down.
Very lucky boy.
Davies great in defense
Flapped at AC for the try.
needs to grow a shoulder.
We were disappointing in attack. Too much like England, says the Englishman!
(missed that loum in all the excitement)
indeed but still a sight to be hold
Not seen it but read text commentary. Lineout sounded awful. ..where exactly did Parling get the lineout guru tag? England's lineout was a shambles in the 6n's and we finished with the worst lineout stats of everyone...very overated player is Parling imo.
Set piece poor yet again, not good enough at this level and they have had weeks to get it sorted.
Think gatland needs to look at the bench for final test and have proper options to change tactics if needed, tuilagi for example and a proper 2nd row. Farrell and any scottish player will only be used as last resort it would appear so maybe not worth having them on the bench. 🙂
I think we defended ball poorly and the Aussies turned us over too much. Line was dire, but that was to be expected from EVERY game so far. Cole did a good shift when he came on. Vunipola was out of his depth all game,all he did was concede (fewer) penalties second half. Game was gone as soon as Warburton went off. Worry for me is that with the exception of Corbisero and perhaps Roberts both repaired(and even then Davies was not bad)what more can that team give? The Aussies can hold us at the scrum, the back row mix is off,and we lack penetration or the ability to get quick ball out wide. Still;at least the Aussies will be missing Horwell next week.
Outstanding test match, high pressure rugby. The Aussies dominated the second half and stayed strong, all credit to them.
Our scrum was good and bad in equal measure, credit to the players for working it out on the field. In the end we didn't capitalise on an Aussie gift, we should have taken a lower risk line out option.
BTW I think the Sky team have been outstanding.
All to play for next week ..
I wouldn't agree that it was lost when warbs went off. No reason whatsoever that the replacements couldn't do the job. BOD hasn't been outstanding in the tests, we don't have an excellent scrum half (although today was an improvement on last week regardless of the result). Parling was lightweight today. Grey or Evans next week please.
Vunipola man of the match
put the crack pipe down!
Hooper was man of the match in my eyes. Great performance.
I'm sure someone on here said that Warbs should not have been selected due to being made of glass. Sadly, I think that's a prediction that's come true. He was injured for the warm ups, ok last week, good this week until the knee went. Now a doubt for next week. Not a good tour fitness wise! Damn shame because I really do rate him!
*
Flapped at AC for the try.
needs to grow a shoulder.POSTED 2 HOURS AGO #
he missed the tackle because he couldnt get to him in time. Not his fault.
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vunipola man of the match for the mental toughness
could easily have crumpled under the pressure he managed to turn round several bad/horrid moments and keep going lasting the full match.
Rugby is a game of character and he showed it in masses. Made some good tackles and ripping throughout and responded at the scrum
Aussie back row is immense
Must be a hooker who can throw and scrum.....we have either or t'other
Hilarious stuff from North-completely ridiculous though, could've easily turned into a yellow card incident!
He didnt respond in the scrum though Adam went shit or bust on the attack and it worked, Cole did too. Vunipola was awful throughout. As for the lineout it was shit before Hibbard came on.
Refereeing of the scrum was appalling. Zero consistency and poor interpretation of what was going on. The Aussie tight head clearly collapsed some scrums which we were penalised for.
I think Hubbard made a difference at the scrum, line out got worse though. Youngs is still the better all round player.
AA he did respond at the scrum, Lydite did not support/bind as well as Warbs did at the scrum, Parling is a lightweight scrummager that did not help him.
Vunipola like I said pulled himself from the pit, rolling maul was excellent not used enough
hibbert scrummed well, threw awfully,t youngs did well again but scrum suffered
So Vunipola was shit because of Lydiate?? Yeah right!
The lineout was poor throughout. Having a dwarf at 8 didnt help as they were able double up on Aw J and Parling. Croft coming on later helped.
What changes for next week then? How did Bowe look?
Bowe was solid. Next week:
1/2p
Bowe
Bod
Roberts
North
Sexton
Murray
Heaslip
Warburton/SOB
Lydiate
AW J
Grey/Evans
Adam
Youngs
Corbisero
Vunipola
Hibbard
Cole
A N Other Lock
SOB/Falatau
Phillips
Farrel
Tuilagi
is what I'd pick. Reckon Roberts will be only change if Warbs is fit.
not help at the scrum...............lydiate was looking to get out of the blocks not supporting a prop having a bad time unlike warbs who did lend strength and support
tis all teamwork AA...............
Bowe looked decent but limited opportunity to attack except chasing kick, not much ball made it down the backline.
Don't think they can play vunipola with parling behind neither had particularly good games. Need to change one or both in my opinion. Whoever is calling the lineouts needs to stop calling the tail because we lose it every time whoever is throwing. If corbisero is fit I would have him back in with grey in 2nd row and would also consider roberts or manu at 12, tough on davies but the backs did not look like penetrating the oz defence.
Edit: pretty much agree with a_a' s team 🙂
You cannot support a prop who has his head up his arse from the flank. If Vunipola could drive straight the flanker may be able to help a bit but as he was folding in and popping up the flanker could do nothing except look to defend the next attack.
Cant blame Parling either if the prop isnt straight it doesnt matter who is behind them.
See that clip of North and two Aussies drive into North to help their mate? That makes it a maul...Which the aussies collapsed,penalty to Lions... 😆 Mostly agree with A-A's team,I would hope Grey would get the call but Evans will be picked in front of him,despite Grey being better. Actually Parling will get the call,as will Youngs,who wasn't as good as Murray. I think Gatland has over complicated things looking for some blend only he can see. With the exception of the 6/7 and 12/13 mixes,play the best players please Warren.
I agree with that ^^. Grey makes line beaks and is aggressive. We need an agressive centre threat also and Murrey seems to be a Phillips / youngs combo all in one.
* Dean Ryan
* View all67comments
Another Lions Test, another epic of agonising drama. The series is in the balance, which is great for the series, but who knows what awaits us next? You feel the momentum has shifted in Australia's favour after those incredible final minutes, but will that change if James Horwill is unavailable?
And, just as importantly, will Jamie Roberts and Alex Corbisiero be fit? Because on these two hinge the Lions' selection and tactical policies. Roberts is the catalyst for everything. Without his punch through the middle, his ability to breach the gainline, the Lions' persistence with their current strategy will not work.
I have to focus this weekend on the scrum. I think Warren Gatland made an error in picking Mako Vunipola and I cannot believe he left him out there for the entire match. Australia, again, were spot on tactically at the set piece, in this case the scrum.
Ben Alexander, Stephen Moore and Benn Robinson all hit across to the left. Normally, this would leave Alexander, the tighthead, vulnerable to Vunipola coming across underneath him, but Vunipola stayed square for 30 minutes, which left him stranded alone, and you could see him falling out the side of the scrum. It took 30 minutes before he managed to come across to take Alexander and give the Lions a decent scrum. Vunipola can't get his hips low enough in relation to his shoulders to be able to attack Alexander, so he ends up scrummaging high, which makes it really obvious when he's coming across. He ends up getting penalised, either for that or just for being left out on the side.
Australia did the same to Joe Marler in the autumn international against England. As soon as they hit left it forces the loosehead's hips to come out, and then the Aussies can go into the space between the loosehead and the hooker.
The Lions' next problem is that Tom Youngs is not big enough to keep them out. So he and Adam Jones end up with enormous pressure coming through them, and Vunipola gets blown out the side. In that context, I'm astounded, firstly, that it took 56 minutes before Richard Hibbard, a much stronger scrummager, came on to block Alexander out. The Lions' scrum changed dramatically on their own ball when he did. And, secondly, that Ryan Grant never came on. Grant is technically a better scrummager than Vunipola. I coached him in the last Six Nations with Scotland, and I felt he should have been picked for the tour in the first place. But he suffers from this perception – inaccurate, I might add – that the Scotland scrum is weak.
I just don't understand the rationale behind leaving Vunipola out there, especially when you effectively can have rolling substitutions for the front row. Players can come back on if someone is injured there, so there was nothing to stop him doing it. But Gatland clearly has no confidence in Grant, which is a shame and, more than that, a serious problem if Corbisiero is not fit next Saturday.
The combination of a compromised set piece and the lack of a physical weapon in midfield to hit up over the gainline is killing the Lions. This is why Roberts and Corbisiero are so crucial to next week if Gatland wants to persist with the current gameplan. Otherwise, I'm not quite sure what the answer is.
The lineout was a little more ambitious, but there were still problems winning good ball at the tail. They drove the lineout very well in the first 20 minutes, so it's far from the end of the world, but the Gatland ploy of big runners coming round the corner off the back of a threatening set piece is being systematically undone by the Aussies.
Roberts and Corbisiero could go a long way to alleviating that. And I think Hibbard's greater presence at scrum time could as well, certainly if Corbisiero doesn't make it. The Lions need to rediscover life on the front foot, because Australia are defending with 13 men in the first line and Kurtley Beale and Will Genia marking the back on either side of the field. If Jonny Sexton can get the offensive kicking game going that we know so well with Leinster, there is lots of space just behind the first line of defence. But he needs to be on the front foot.
That's why Horwill's hearing on Monday could prove series-defining. He is the charismatic heartbeat of this Wallabies team. If he is banned for the decider, I'm not sure Australia will be the same team. For what it's worth, I don't believe he brought his boot down on Alun Wyn Jones's head on purpose – his immaculate disciplinary record and the fact that his view of Jones's head is obviously blocked tell me that – but there is a case to answer for reckless use of the boot. He may yet miss the final Test.
And that may help the Lions. One thing I am sure of, though, is that carrying on as the Lions are, without the thrust of Roberts and/or the threat of a more confident set piece, would be madness. Australia are working them out.
scroll down to see video of Sir Clives reaction to the game ehich is in stark contrast to that **** Barnes on sky who sai,"Sans injury may be a blessing is disguise".
@AA interesting piece, thanks. By the way, Staurt Barnes - excellent player, good guy, great student of the game. Sky setup is excellent.
What's the rule now about deliberately grounding/knocking on the ball after being awarded a penalty ? I've seen a few situations where the Lions have had penalties taken away after (early) calls of "advantage over". With a kicker as in form as Halfpenny surely you take every shot a goal.
What price a world class drop goal kicker as an option from the bench in that test then ? It's a match winner in that test (with the line out we won and a hooker than can throw) and I think Johnny has better range than Halfpenny, I saw him land two from the halfway line out wide to send Leicester out of the H-Cup. Farrell is very steady but doesn't have a long range kick. Halfpenny has been outstanding but the commentary team said it was a 45m kick, not so huge and hardly a repeat of Steyn's kick in South Africa.