[Closed] summer rugby

duckman - Member
I didn't say Phillips was poo

that was me 😉

England U20's are world champs - beating the Jnr AB's before then Wales in the final.

Huzzah.

No, i agree with you duckman

OZ backline for next test rumoured to be

9. Genia
10. Beale
12. Lealiifano
13. Ben Tapuai
15. Folau
11 & 14. O'Connor and either Nick Cummins or Luke Morahan

Despite the injuries that is a dangerous looking line up.

Starting to think there will be a change or two. We got the result, but we were very lucky. They know there's work to do, and improvement needed.
Tomorrow looks very much like a " playing for places " selection.
TBH, don't think the management are that happy with the last two performances, and we'll see them really go for it against Melbourne. And reckon there's a spot up for grabs - probably between between Lydiate, Faletau and SOB. Just not sure who's spot yet.

100 % sure Warburton's playing on Saturday. He was better than the week before, which was better than his first game. He's captain, and he's improving week on week.
Be interesting to see who get's the rest at 60 of the 2 locks, and the two flankers. Or if he leaves them both out there and Croft and Tips both come on as BR subs.
If he was to demote Croft, who's our next best jumper - Warburton, Heaslip, Lydiate?

ijs445ra

that does look good.
Wouldn't be surprised if they swapped the centres in defence too.
Protect CL who could be goalkicking, and put Tapaui in for the hits.

I hope there is a big reaction from tomorrows team, with injury concerns etc there has to be places up for grabs and you would expect them all to be keen to get a Lions test jersey.

Does Heaslip not do a fair bit of jumping for Leinster and Ireland? Can't recall seeing the other two doing much.

Edit: That is not doing much jumping rather than not doing much of anything 🙂

He's not bad, but no Croft.
He'd be my guess, if picked, but don't know enough about Warburton / Lydiate.
I seem to remember seeing a lot of Faletau lining up in the centres off lineouts, so guessed one of them two must be a decent jumper ?
Might be completely wrong here...

What I was getting at, is Warburton's nailed on. If he's a jumper, then there's more scope for change.
If he never jumps, then the best of the other at jumping is more likely to play.
Chances are it's heaslip, leaving 6 as the position up for grabs.
If lydiate a good jumper too, I'd say he defo in for Saturday.

Think it's significant that now 7 is nailed down, SOB's starting there this week and Lydiate's being given a chance to go for the 6 position. If tommorrow works out, I'd bet on Lydiate starting the next test.

There might be an outside chance of them then having Croft cover lock/6 from sub, and picking another 7 on the bench.

ijs445ra - Member
OZ backline for next test rumoured to be

9. Genia
10. Beale
12. Lealiifano
13. Ben Tapuai
15. Folau
11 & 14. O'Connor and either Nick Cummins or Luke Morahan

Cummings but no Mogg! I'm surprised.

That aussie backline will be devastating with enough ball.
Arguments about Phillips or Youngs aside hasnt Dawson got this arse about face?

Matt Dawson

Former Lions scrum-half
He believes Youngs' quicker, less-confrontational style may suite the Lions' cause better than the famously combative Wales scrum-half Phillips.

"The Lions are all about momentum," he said.

"They need pattern, they need to get into strategy and actually they didn't do that until, really, Ben Youngs came on with 20 minutes to go.

"And all of a sudden everything calmed down, people could get into position and just run the clock out and they threatened a couple of times."

First bit could be true butI thought the Lions started the last 20 with a comfortable ish lead and then very near ****ed it up and in fact should really have lost. The replacements in the front row seemed to do the most damage but Youngs didnt preside over an easy close out of the game at all.

POC is a huge loss, I'm gutted for him as a chance to be a Lions hero at this stage of his career was there for the taking. We need plenty of cool heads and experience, Warburton's only 25 but he's got to start IMO. Saturday will be a huge pressure game, even more so than Brisbane, sorry to be boring but it's about control, territory and keeping the scoreboard ticking along. The Lions have players that can hurt Australia, holes will appear when the Aussies are under pressure.

@a_a - I think Phillips is first choice at 9 as you'll see from my posts, but what do you think about his "chase" of Genia on the first Aussie try ?

Shit. But to be fair Genia is ****ing rapid. When Genia turns him and then puts the after burners on it was game over. Phillips could have sprinted for his life it would have made no difference.
Ioum I cant see any of tuesdays starters starting saturday. Bench at best again for Lydiate or SOB. Parlings been pulled out so he starts saturday. Bowe and Parling and maybe Roberts are the changes. Tuilagi may bench as Roberts could cover 15.

Philips was ambling back when there was a good chance they could have been stopped, not great from him. Genia had a much better game however Youngs would not do any better than Philips at stopping him and Gatland will go with experience again. Maybe Yongs to come on a bit sooner on Saturday if Philips doesn’t look any sharper around the base.

Overall I would rather be in our position, we had good possession and territory and the goal kicking was immense again. The injury blow to POC is bad but there are other players who are far more vital, the squad of forwards in general is pretty good, plenty of line out operators and born tacklers in the mix. For some reason we just lacked the spark to turn the possession and territory pressure in to points although we were comfortably ahead early in the second half, a bit sharper game management could have made it a comfortable victory in the end.

Anyone fancy doing a world xv pick? For the first time in a while I've seen recent games involving every major rugby nation (I caught a bit of a Scotland game too 😀 )

Mine:

1.Tony Woodcock
2. du Plessis
3. Adam Jones
4. Eben Etzbeth
5. POC
6. Thierry Dusatoir
7. Ritchie Mccaw
8. Kieran Read
9. Will Genia
10. Dan Carter
11. Julian Savea
12. Wesley Fofana
13. BOD
14. That Aussie Fofau
15. Sorry 1/2p but Israel Daggs just edges it.

How to play Genia:

Nice vid but I don’t think you are going to get that every time, once in the series would be a result.

Thats al very well ioum but thats **** all to do with Genia and all about dicking their scrum. Nice wheel to cut him off from the easy pass and then put the drive on. Even croft could do what SOB does in that clip!!!!! The hard part is how to stop Genia when he has front foot ball and plenty of runners coming off him and the fringe defence is poor.

Tom B - Member
Anyone fancy doing a world xv pick? For the first time in a while I've seen recent games involving every major rugby nation (I caught a bit of a Scotland game too )

Mine:

1.Tony Woodcock
2. du Plessis
3. Adam Jones
4. Eben Etzbeth
5. POC
6. Thierry Dusatoir
7. Ritchie Mccaw
8. Kieran Read
9. Will Genia
10. Dan Carter
11. Julian Savea
12. Wesley Fofana
13. BOD
14. That Aussie Fofau
15. Sorry 1/2p but Israel Daggs just edges it.

Hmm, as always you can argue most of the positions but not a bad team at all! 🙂

Except I wouldn't have BOD in there. He's going in over Conrad Smith, Ma'a Nonu, Rene Ranger, just to name 3 NZers? On current form I'd pick one of those, maybe Smith as he looks like he's turning 50 next week. (He looks older every match I see.)

Nonu is on the bench alongside Corbs, Hoare, Cole, Pocock, Parisse, Parra and 1/2p

Cole? Are you on crack?

Name me the better option....fwiw a great deal of sports journo's had Cole in the starting xv earlier in the year.

In fact, name your 15 you infuriating Henson lover-no supergav allowed though 🙂

Franks, Mas one of those DuPlesise all better than Cole whose form has dropped of a cliff recently. The first 15 was good. I would have Picamoles over Parisse but you need a lock really no idea who I'd pick AW Jones but I may be biased! You also need a ten so sexton

Corbs (but on becaue stampy healey is broken), Youngs, Franks, AW Jones, Picamoles, Phillips,Sexton and Nonu

No comedy gav pick. I iz disappoint 🙂

Lock is a funny one...AW Jones was my thought as a third pick.

Just read that an arrest warrant has been issued for Loane so he may be a doubt for the weekend!

I've totally forgotten the name of the French 8, but I've have him instead of Parisse*.

I wouldn't have Parra - there are several NZ 9s I'd have instead, or Ruan Pienaar.

And Mtwarira on the bench just so that the crowd could hidd 'Beeeeeeaaaaaastttttttt' when he comes on.

a_a got it - Picamoles.

What about that big lock from the warratahs he was a monster

That stampy Horwill fella is no slouch either!

Can't have McCaw in there, he's on a year off still isn't he?

6 months all done and dusted I thought?

Ah ok, I stand corrected. Didn't think I saw him playing Fance though.

Seems like his sabbatical just caught the France series. Due backnfor the rugby championship.

And if you thought the Horwill verdict was bollox...
😉

"If I am to uphold this citing I must conclude that the Player has lied to me. My assessment of the Player is that he is honest: he immediately accepted that he had grabbed an opponent's testicles - he did not attempt to dispute that fact - and he said that there is no room in the game for insidious acts. Further there was no attempt to weaken the evidence given by Strauss who himself accepted that there was probably no malicious intention.
"In those circumstances I determine on the balance of probabilities that the Player did not intend to squeeze Strauss's testicles, nor were his actions reckless. In the dynamic situation of a ruck in which he was attempting to clear out an opponent he attempted to grab hold of his shorts and accidentally grabbed his testicles."

http://www.espn.co.uk/blogs/rugby/story/187293.html

Further there was no attempt to weaken the evidence given by Strauss who himself accepted that there was probably no malicious intention.

Do they even consult with the "victims" before they waste time and money on these citings?
I've never grabbed an opponents testicles, but a team mate had a fondness for flicking them. Somewhat unmaginatively, he called it the testiflick. He made many people very angry.

Tipuric on for O'Brien at the 50 minute (ish) mark, a sign for Saturdays team?

Possibly, one of them will be on the bench.

The big sign is that both locks played 80. So maybe Croft will cover lock and 6?
Maybe from the bench, with Lydiate starting?
Either way, there could be a spot freed up on the bench.
Tipuric probably more likely than SOB as an out and out 7.
And he's Welsher 😉

Reports say Faletau had a stormer. But played 80 mins. might be a real wildcard for that bench spot, he's fit enough to do 2 games in a week.

Maitland and Manu (and Zebo)also played 80.
To me, that says Roberts is fit. And Kearney's moved ahead of Maitland for a bench spot, although much more likely to be JD if not in starting 15.
Then there's Tommy Bowe too 🙂

Apparently Gatald says Roberts unlikely to play. Leaves JD as likely starter.
Puzzling why Manu's played 80 minutes. Not rated?

The big sign is that both locks played 80. So maybe Croft will cover lock and 6?

Parling was pulled from the squad so he starts Saturday.
Given Joubert is likely to police the breakdown like Pillock did SOB would be a better option than Tipuric to bench. Turnovers are banned front foot ball is needed.
Changes will be Parling, Bowe to start or bench over maitland and Roberts to start if fit over Davies

Needs game time I reckon and he's unlikely to be needed for more than 20 mins on saturday (if he's even on the bench).

I am going with the below for 2nd test on the assumption that Corbisero/J Roberts are not going to be fit and I think Kearney came off with an injury today which is why he did not play the 80. Don’t see Gatland changing much except where necessary.

I dont think they can afford to have a specialist wing or fullback as the third back on the bench, Manu could cover 12-14 if necessary but I think Maitland is more likely to be on the bench again to cover back three and allow a rejig if required of North to centre for example.

1. Grant
2. Youngs
3. Jones
4. AWJ
5. Parling
6. Lydiate
7. Warburton
8. Heaslip
9. Philips
10. Sexton
11. North
12. Davies
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. 1/2p

Vunipola
Hibbard
Cole
Gray/Croft
Obrien
Youngs
Farrell
Maitland/Tualagi

Can't see Lydiate coming in, and I'd prefer Vunipola at Loose head. Otherwise, yep.

Grey's poo would really appear to smell,so Croft on bench and Vunipola to start,although Grant is a better scrummager. Tuilagi will get the nod as well.

I reckon it'll be:
Vunipola
Youngs
Adam
Parling
AW Jones
Croft
Warbs
Heaslip
Phillips
Sexton
North
Davies
Bod
Bowe
1/2p

Grant
Hibbard
Cole
Evans
SOB
Youngs
Farrell
Maitland

anagallis_arvensis - Member

I reckon it'll be:

I think your probably right but no Cuthbert?

Its harsh because he took his try well but Bowe is the bettr player

Fans of cole and vunipola look away now. Wallaby scrum could dominate on saturday!!!

A closer look at some of Pillocks decisions. Got the BOD first one right to be fair some others are odd to say the least.

With Kepu likely to start at tighthead for Oz i think they have to start Grant, Lions can't afford to be conceding pens or getting ball on the back foot off the scrums. I think Vunipola is good but he is thought of as a weak scrummager so anything goes down on his side he is likely to be pinged.

Huw Bennett forced to retire with an achillies problem, feels like there has been a lot of forced retirements this season

Adam Jones is a world class scrummager, part of that skill set is conning the ref from time to time as per the YouTube clip. The Lions scrum was poor after the substitutions and should have lost us the game in the last 10 mins. The scrum was definitely affected by Pollocks bizarre calling of the hit right from the start. We need to be much better on Saturday and Australia's confidence will be high in this area.

I think Tuilagi will be on the bench and he may possibly even start, I don't think BOD's place in the side is a certainty.

As an aside McCaw was part of the commentary team for the NZ/France series

ijs445ra - Member

i think they have to start Grant

Problem with that is that Grant is Scottish; Gatland will see him and IMMEDIATELY be reminded that another Scot in the party has refused to marry his daughter and indeed is demanding a DNA test.

The Lions scrum was poor after [s]the substitutions and should have lost us the game in the last 10 mins.[/s] their best player fractured his arm, but played on and packed down anyway to do what he could to keep us in the game

Can't all be blamed on the subs.
But tbh, Heaslip should have been packing down at second row if they knew there was a problem.

I don't think BOD's place in the side is a certainty.

He's not welsh, so that's true.
We'd be two tries less on the scoreboard without him. There's been enough talk about the block for Cuthbert already. The ref allowed it 🙂
But have a re-watch of North's try too and watch the perfect line he run's in front of Folau when the kick's in the air. Keeps moving so as not to stop and visibly block him, but times it so subtly that most people, ref included, would miss it.
north might have won it in the air and ran it in anyway, but the other contests suggest not.

The Lions scrum was poor after their best player fractured his arm, but played on and packed down anyway to do what he could to keep us in the game

But have a re-watch of North's try too and watch the perfect line he run's in front of Folau when the kick's in the air. Keeps moving so as not to stop and visibly block him, but times it so subtly that most people, ref included, would miss it.
north might have won it in the air and ran it in anyway, but the other contests suggest not.

number three the kick was waaaaaay tooooo loooong Folau would have got nowhere near it any way.

re Tuilagi
I'd love it if he was involved. He's the best twelve available with Robert's injured.
JD had a couple of good games, but he's not a twelve , he's the third best thirteen in the party.
But can't see G****** going for it after giving Manu 80 minutes yesterday.

Scrums will be a big focus on Saturday given the variance in performance in the 1st test, we started ok but then tapered off - Aussies may perceive an advantage but we still have some good operators and a key theme is going to be adapting to the ref in the game. We didn’t do so well with the way he policed the engage, we need to learn from that and use the experience to get over it.

If we can adapt and tighten up the discipline then no problem or at least an even chance in the lottery of penalties called when they collapse.

nicked from elsewhere but I thought it worth a read.

From a Sports writer called Murray Kinsella
http://elverysblog.com/2013/06/25/lions-breaking-down-the-back-row/

Lions: Breaking Down the Back Row
The Lions are lucky to be 1-0 up in the Test series, and Warren Gatland certainly needs to re-think his use of the bench, kicking tactics, lineout strategy and player selection. One area in particular that needs a change is the back row.

The balance in the first Test just wasn’t right. Many critics have highlighted Tom Croft as anonymous, while others are suggesting Sam Warburton’s lack of carries as reason to drop him. The stats that are freely available can be misleading, so I’ve taken a detailed look at each the back row’s performances.

Jamie Heaslip

The Leinster man turned in an excellent performance, with a huge work-rate. In attack, Heaslip made 10 carries for around 30 metres. In the tight, his leg drive was impressive as he eked out every possible inch. On the two occasions he got possession in midfield, he made big gains, busting a tackle the first time and making an offload the second.

When he wasn’t carrying, Heaslip didn’t hang about waiting for the ball. He was involved in 16 attacking rucks. Seven of those were accurate cleanouts; one was ineffective; he leeched onto attackers twice to aggressively drive them through contact; conceded one penalty; and was ‘guard’ at five rucks (meaning he didn’t clear anyone away but protected the ball).

Heaslip made six passes over the course of the 80 minutes. It was interesting to see him used as first receiver, from where he either popped the ball to forward runners outside him or made a longer pass back to Sexton. These passing skills are one of the areas where Heaslip is slightly ahead of Toby Faletau.

At the lineout, the No. 8 was an important part of the jigsaw. He claimed four throws, all at the front. Again, his lineout ability nudges him ahead of Faletau.

Heaslip was superb defensively. With nine (two assisted), his tackle count wasn’t the highest but his impact was immense. Three of those tackles were dominant, where he either sent the attacker backwards or into touch. He also managed to strip the ball from James O’Connor inside the Lions 22.

All in all, this was a complete display from Heaslip and he deserves to keep his place.

Sam Warburton

It’s becoming popular to question Warburton’s contributions and I can understand that. I’m a big fan of Justin Tipuric and would love to see him start at 7, but I feel that some of the criticism leveled at Warburton is over the top. On Saturday, he did his job and should keep his place for the second Test.

In attack, Warburton contributed three carries for a total of eight metres. All three of them were in midfield. We will come back to that. In the Lions’ attacking phase play, the captain was involved in 22 rucks. 12 of those were effective cleanouts; one was ineffective; one saw the Lions awarded a penalty; one saw them concede a penalty; and in seven of them Warburton acted as the ‘guard’.

Helping the Lions win the breakdown is Warburton’s main function, and he did well in attack. Defensively, referee Chris Pollock ruled out any chance of turnovers meaning Warburton only had five half-hearted efforts at stealing Wallabies’ possession. The second Test will be a truer illustration of Warburton’s ability at the breakdown.

The Lions captain kept himself busy in defence, with 17 tackle involvements. Seven of those saw him assisted in the tackle, with the majority of the rest being low one-on-one tackles. Warburton did miss two tackles, but neither resulted in Wallaby points.

At the lineout, Warburton didn’t catch any ball, but he contributed two lifts. Elsewhere, he made a partial block down of a Genia kick early in the second half.

Warburton’s role for the Lions is to make tackles and be the first to the breakdown. He did that job well and has done enough to keep his place in the starting team. If the Wallabies add George Smith to the mix, things get a lot more interesting.

Tom Croft

Croft’s main strengths are his lineout excellence and his pacy running game out wide. Starting with the latter, the Englishman delivered, with four clean takes on the Lions’ throw. Three of those were at the front, with one catch at the tail. Job done in the lineout.

Unfortunately for Croft, he only got one chance to show his running game out wide and he took it poorly. With around 20 minutes to go he finally got space but it ended with a forward pass to O’Driscoll and a wasted opportunity. In total, Croft made 6 carries for 30 metres. The rest of them were in midfield or in tight, where Croft isn’t particularly effective.

In defence, Croft made 10 tackles (three of which were assisted). That looks good on paper, but his tackles lacked impact. The Englishman missed at least two chances to smash Wallaby attackers. On top of that, his decision making for Folau’s second try has to be questioned. He shot up out of the line, but didn’t tackle anyone. The try certainly wasn’t his fault alone, but he should have done better.

Likewise for the first Folau try, when he shot up on James O’Connor and created space either side of himself. In this instance, he needed to at least block O’Connor’s progress. In his place, Dan Lydiate or Sean O’Brien would have put a shoulder on O’Connor. For me, Croft just lacks that aggressive edge.

Supporters of Croft often mention that his breakdown work isn’t appreciated, but that wasn’t backed up by his display on Saturday. In 24 ruck involvements, just seven were effective cleanouts. Six of them were technically poor; four were weak leeches where his lack of aggression showed up; and seven saw him acting as ‘guard’.

Overall, I don’t think that Croft did enough to keep his place in the team.

O’Brien or Lydiate the Answer?

Between Warburton and Croft, there were eight carries close to the rucks and in midfield on Saturday. If O’Brien can come into the team and be the guy in those positions, the Lions are likely to get over the gain line more regularly.

Furthermore, O’Brien’s threat in attack would draw defenders to him and free up space for others. It usually takes two men to bring him down, and that would mean one less defender harassing Mike Phillips or marking George North out wide.

However, Dan Lydiate is a tempting option for Gatland in a potential role as stifler-in-chief of Will Genia. Lydiate could certainly perform that role expertly. The big Welshman also contributes plenty of clean-outs. His excellent discipline is another advantage over O’Brien.

Either way, Gatland needs to change the back row and my preference would be to see O’Brien in the starting team, with Lydiate coming off the bench for the last 20 minutes.

Huw Bennett forced to retire 🙁

Backs - Halfpenny, Bowe, O'Driscoll, Davies, North, Sexton, B Youngs

Forwards - Vunipola, T Youngs, A Jones, AW Jones, Parling, Lydiate, Warburton(c), Heaslip

Replacements - Hibbard, Grant, Cole, Croft, O'Brien, Murray, Farrell, Cuthbert

Happy to see O'Brien on the bench

I would prefer to see SOB start but nench option is good. Not happy to see Croft covering lock. If one of them goes down early we are screwed.

AusXV v Lions: Beale Folau A-Cooper Leali'ifano Tomane O'Connor Genia Robinson Moore Alexander Douglas Horwill Mowen Hooper Palu

Gatland said Phillips was "fit and available", although the Welshman - who started all three Tests in South Africa - has not been able to take a full part in training with a knee injury that also hindered him in the first Test.
"The decision was to rest him this week," Gatland explained. "He is potentially an important component for next week. Given the quality of the nines we have got, all of them have done a great job for us. We felt it was prudent to make sure he was 100% fit for next week."

more Gatland Gibberish?

Phillips dropped - simple as. Hopefully Youngs/Murray can distribute a bit quicker. Lydiate should provide a bit more protection for them too. Front five looks a bit creaky if we're unlucky with injuries.

Does parling pack down behind vunipola or is he other side?

Think croft as 2nd row and Cuthbert as back three bench cover is a bit risky.

Duckman, looks like your right Grant for token of the test.

Think croft as 2nd row and Cuthbert as back three bench cover is a bit risky.

interchangeable though, Croft could cover wing and Cuthbert lock 😆

My guess is Lydiate is in to provide the dog we lose with O'Connell's injury. We lose a little in the lineout though, and pace out wide. Worried about Vunipola starting, he has to get the serums bang on from the start before thinking about the big carries.

The pack seems less balanced this week, carrying a weak(er) scrummager and a lighter lock means we lose athleticism in the back row, but the Aussies have more dangerous broken field runners on the pitch from the first whistle, which could expose a slower back row. let's hope our rock blunts their scissors...

Having Bowe back is a big plus, but I'd never drop Phillips from the 23

Given the forced changes I didn’t think Gatland would do much tinkering but he has gone for it. Can’t argue with Philips and Croft being disappointing in the first test so they are out on their arses. Cuthbert will feel hard done by as he didn’t do anything wrong but Tommy Bowe probably does have the edge on him. Brave and positive move I think.

Cuthbert should not feel hard done by he should feel lucky he is on the Tour he is p1sh. Tommy Bowe has more rugby skill in his broken bone than Cuthbert does in his whole body. I can appreciate Cuthbert is a fine athlete (big, strong, fast in a straight line) but he really does lack rugby skill, Haskell is similar the over muscled under skilled ****t. Unfortunately that is the way the game has gone in the NH gym work before skill work.

Maitland is the one who should feel hard done by, he has had a hand in quite a lot f tries through his support play, running lines etc and that comes from his [s]Scottish[/s] NZ upbringing 🙂

Maitland is the one who should feel hard done by

Maitland has missed one as far as i recall when the Lions were a man down in the backs, and while he scrambled well to make it across, i know he should not have missed the player having made it across.

Maitland is a far better rugby player than Cuthbert, perhaps not as good an athlete, but a better rugby player

Cuthbert may not always have the safest hands but he is not a disaster zone, he likes a tackle and takes a lot of stopping on the Ball, he puts a shift in and has pace and height. Not a lot wrong with that, I agree Bowe has the edge but if you play well and score in a winning performance then you should feel hard done by.

His try looked quite easy but it was all down to isolating a poor defender in their line and executing the perfect line and timing, he did it so well it looked like a knife through butter.

He's missed more than that, and even worse has left gaping holes where he should be standing/running.
He's an exciting talent but I'd go for Cuthbert against the aussie wingers over Maitland every time.

Would rather take a chance on Tuilagi on the bench than either of them. Actually, would much rather have him start at 12, tbh.
JD was hardly a success there, even against a forward. Good 13, not a 12 at this level.

And Richie Gray, or even Ian Evans, is not as good a lock as Tom Croft?

IRB are appealing the Horwill decision :D. That could be interesting!!! The first decision was basically a dog ate my homework excuse that was accepted - rubbish.

Croft was not great in the first test, he might be a great player on his day but so is Philips and they both suffered the same fate.

Tuilagi is a very exciting player but maybe not a great all round player / safe pair of hands and that is why he is not getting a look in.

He's not getting a look in because there is no space on the bench!
5 forwards leaves 3 back spaces to cover wing, centre, FH, SH and FB. Gats have to pick the most versatile players, not necessarily the best ones. I'd have put him on the bench as wing/centre cover instead of Cuthbert *waits for a_a to froth at the mouth*. Nothing wrong with Tuilagis hands.

I wpuld agree wrecker no point having croft on the bench as SOB is there and Tuilagi might be a better option than Cuthbert. Cuthbert aint shit though, scores a shed load of tries for someone who is lucky to be on tour.Maitland a better bench option as cover 15 but not a better winger.

Good point, but you'd need to replace croft with another 2nd row. Evans and Grey have both been playing well and as you said, SOB can cover the back row. Has me wondering if gats plan is to bring SOB on for warbs?
I like Cuthbert as a player, like manu and north, he can be a game winner. Would like to see manu run at those backs though; create some space for BOD.

SOB would have been the perfect 7 for last weeks ref, dont need a ground hog if the breakdown is policed like that, with Lydiate hitting some rucks to secure our ball a 7 that carries would have been great. But has SOB played with Croft last week our own ball would have become more vulnerable.

North 12 BOD 13 Cuthbert 11 Bowe 14 and 1/2p 15, with Croft at 4 and SOB 6 or 7 would certainly pose an attacking threat for the last 20 if we are in the shit.

anyway whatever else happens I just hope Davies gets a good run up at Lealifano early on 😀

Won't make any odds if he does as do you think lealifano has any recollection of playing against him last week? 😈

Time to put it right irb[img] :medium[/img]

I too hope the IRB do the right thing, the original decision to clear Horwell was simply wrong

So George North is sorry and Craig Mitchell is really really sorry 😮

I despise Schalk Burger. The holder of the dubious record of most yellow cards since they were introduced. I hope he never returns to rugby, it's better off without him.
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