[Closed] summer rugby

I thought when he did Genia right on the line as the Lions attacked he got it wrong though as I thought Genia was the tackler so could get up and play the ball without being offside.

AA - it wasn't Genia he penalised, it was the next 2-3 aussies driving through the ruck that failed to stay on their feet - they had hands all over the deck. Agree with the majority of the rest of your comments particularly Youngs excellent performance.

On second watching Philips defence for the first try was poor - he was way too hesitant backing off Genia and gave him way too much room.

Interesting to see the boot/head up there. Did it make the British broadcast? The Green & Gold lenses down here didn't pick it up at all.
Agree that kicking killed the Wallabies, but will be interesting to see who comes back from the head injuries after some pressure not to rush people back over here in other sports.
Lions need to watch that game a few times and put some good planning/moves together and just gel a little more.
As for the Ref the most annoying bit was the hesitation with the Scrum calling, as if he wanted them to infringe. Keep it a bit more RL for them up there.
The pitch didn't look up to any serious beating either, seemed to be a few slips and divots pulling out not helping a few things (and helping one right at the end)

The biggest plus for the Lions is that nobody went off on a stretcher, hopefully those involved Wednesday with plans for the next 2 tests stay safe.

Still 1-0 with 2 to play, see how the Wallabies cope with must win pressure in Docklands.

jambalaya - Member

However overall we had the best of the refs decisions, had the Aussies run a block on BOD for a try there would be pages of protest here.

It wasn't a block. The ball was passed behind the player, yes, but at no time did a ball carrier pass behind the 'blocker'. It was simply a successful decoy and poor defending. The Australian didn't need to defend against a player who very obviously didn't have the ball in his hands.

If we are going to feel guilty about it why not talk about the blatant forward pass that led to a Folau try. Lets not have rubbish about the passer's hands moving backwards* 🙄 - the ball went forward. The lines on the pitch showed that. So they scored a try which in other circumstances would have been disallowed. 😉

* as the commentators were talking about. And let's face it, if the ball had been passed forward over the midway line, for instance, the pass would have been ruled forward regardless of where the passer's hands were moving.

Aussies used lots of [s]blockers[/s], sorry dummy runners themselves, so there can be little complaint with BOD. That was mild compared what goes on the whole time in most senior rugby. Indeed before that BOD was blocked by two/three Aussie dummy runners. Perhaps officials need to look at blocking a bit more, be it dummy runners or people blocking runners chasing high kicks etc. The All Blacks are past masters at this and "creating" gaps in the oppo!

Interesting article posted above, not sure how much is written with benefit of hindsight. But if the Aussies ran that game plan, and nullified Phillips then that was pretty smart. I was more relieved that we actually won the line out ball even if the throws were hardly down the middle!

Duckman - as a ref, what did you make of the time taken to set the scrums. Isn't almost impossible to hold that long without someone engaging? Still seems he was looking to ping, rather than looking for successful scrums?

Nasty stamp that - hard to see how that can be anything other than a ban? Amazed Spikey missed that in front of him. Obviously calmed down since Ellis Park final test!!!!

Cougar, is the main culprit having "some quiet time to think'?

If we are going to feel guilty about it why not talk about the blatant forward pass that led to a Folau try. Lets not have rubbish about the passer's hands moving backwards* - the ball went forward. The lines on the pitch showed that. So they scored a try which in other circumstances would have been disallowed.

Anyway forgot to say cheers to Cougar (I'm sure he's still reading along - if not someone report this post to let him know) for reffing this thread like a rugby game lots of warnings and chances before the yellowbanhammercard comes out and explaining his thinking.

Pass to Folou wasn't forward even though it went forward. See here for the explanation.

Well done for picking up the actual stamping incident - AA?
Don't think they will ban the Australian captain - probably a warning or inconclusive evidence - remember NZ 05?
I'm a big fan of JD but we need some go forward in the midfield so either JR or Tuilagi back in the centre with BOD.
I would replace Phillips and the back row needs to be changed - replace Croft unless we intend to start throwing to the back.
I would bring in SOB and Faletau, assuming they keep Warburton.
Otherwise same team, except possibly Bowe for Cuthbert.

Well done for picking up the actual stamping incident - AA?

I nick all the gifs from gwladrugby.com

Good clip that AA, thanks.

the ****tersphere reporting that POC has broken his hand and is going home and Court has been called up as cover for Corbisero 😥

What's the range of punishment for that kind of offence? Would be a bit of a shocker if it gets withdrawn for inconclusive evidence. To me it looks like he lines it up then practically crosses his legs trying to put the boot in. Maybe retaliation for the 1st minute injury?

the ****tersphere reporting that POC has broken his hand and is going home and Court has been called up as cover for Corbisero

Really hope that's not true......POC is a massive loss but also Corbs as we need a decent scrummaging loose head. I hope that Grant is as good as some people have been making out

"Over there my boy"

[img] [/img]

doesn't look like POc is worried about his hand here! Poor old Beale
[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]
If Croft had taken out O'Conner I think it is then North wouldn't have tracked him inside. Genia does Phillips like a kipper but Genia is bloody amazing in open play.
Here Croft wanders out of the line and does nothing, doesn't lay a hand on anyone and leaves North all at sea.
[img] [/img]

Maybe retaliation for the 1st minute injury?

retaliation for Lealifano being shit at tackling?

What about the "chase" from Phillips - he's strolling at the half way line. You're number 1 priority is your opposite number and Phillips just lets him go. If you roll it back to the infringement Phillips is waving his arms trying to get a decision and just looks half asleep when Genia takes the tap.

Would be sad If POC's out.
But no surprise if he played on with a broken hand, saying nothing.

Read something similar about Ashley-Cooper. Reports say he dislocated his shoulder.
10 minutes before he went off.

Ben tapui, jesse mogg and George Smith called up.

A-a, you are crediting a forward with the ability to link two events together and come to a conclusion. I am gambling that Horwills thought process was more like:

Ozzie down!!!! Me kick Lion head!!!

Did anyone else notice in the post-match interviews that Will Greenwood seemed to be taller than both George North and Cuthbert?

Just looked up Greenwood on wiki and he is supposedly 6ft4", whereas I'm sure that I saw a stat early in the match saying that Cuthbert was 6ft6"!

Attack didn't look too dangerous either. Perhaps we should have taken a different coach?

Horwill cleared! FFs!

The citing official must have looked at a different tape. I find that a very odd decision from the clip AA posted. He would be advised not to linger too long at the bottom of a ruck in the 2nd test (not that I would condone violence).

Just watched it. Didn't think that Croft was great, thought that Warns and Heaslip were good. Thought that BOD was pretty good too daft couple of early pens though.

Wasn't blown away by Sexton tbh, good kicking game-the Aussies aren't great under a high ball are they!, but didn't think that he helped out the backs when he'd got ball in hand....that said, Spike probably didn't help matters either......Young's and Farrell to start next week anyone 🙂

Shame to hear about POC.

"After hearing all the evidence I could not find that when James Horwill's right foot came into glancing contact with Alun Wyn Jones' face, that he Horwill was acting recklessly," said Judicial Officer, Nigel Hampton QC.

"I found that I could not reject as being implausible or improbable Horwill's explanation that as he was driving forward with his right leg raised he was spun off balance through the impact of Lions players entering the ruck from the opposite side.

"In an endeavour to regain his balance Horwill brought his right leg to the ground unknowing that Alun Wyn Jones' head was in that area, due to having his sight impeded by the presence of Michael Hooper and Tom Croft who were beneath him and over the top of Alun Wyn Jones. Due to these reasons I cannot uphold the citing."

[img] [/img]

no one regains their balance by bringing their feet closer together!

Attack didn't look too dangerous either. Perhaps we should have taken a different coach?

almost certainly, Howlers is shite!
Its been quite noticeable on re-watching that the ref totally gave up on pinging the early engage after the first few scrums. Adam wasn't bothered he conceded the hit and then drove over his man. Cole however lost the hits and was always going backwards from there.

Madness that explanation, it's like he hasn't looked at the tape. If you are going to accept the excuse irrespective of the damming evidence what's the point!

@brianmoore666 
Horwill - to the judicial officer, Nigel Hampton, who ruled Horwill was trying to regain his feet, not stamp - You are a ****ing idiot.

wonder who will replace POC? Parling or Evans judging by who is playing tuesday.

Gray in and SOB for Croft would be my choice.

I could go with that but Grey and Parling start on tuesday which suggests Evans will start. He is the nearest like for like replacement but isnt good enough imo.

It's obvious to anyone that video shows deliberation and force being out through the leg. He should have been banned.

Could be an angry game next week.

No not an Evans fan myself.

Evans has been good so far but it's prob grey.
Could that Aussie rush defence (did someone say offside?!?) have been caught out with more up and unders? Bags of space behind, and it came good when sexton tried it.

world youth final just starting,on s4c aswell for those without sky.

I would think Parling will start,which would retain croft at line....Or Grey will be in,which would allow SOB to start. I think the defence will be pinged to bits next week so maybe concentrate on your attacking players, which Croft undoubtedly is better at. I don't see why Grey fell behind Parling for any reason other than he was injured;now he is fit(although he was pish last week)

Eh? Parling is the best line out jumper of the lot! Grey is much better everywhere else though.

Parling and AWJ to start? Grey as first sub?

1000. Whoop.

some big lads in that England under 20's team!

Parling and AW Jones would look underpowered to me. Grey would be my choice.

I don't see why Grey fell behind Parling for any reason other than he was injured

Something to do with G******'s wife or daughter?

Rumour is that he hasn't been impressed with Grey's attitude. Too laid back.

If that's the case, once a coach doesn't like you then that's it really.

Would explain how Grey went from at least top 3 of the locks in the earlier games, to 5th choice.

Wrecker;I think we have to quicken to ball at the line,I think Grey is a better front jumper but for quick ball,if Youngs can hit it,we must use three jumpers. I think Parling is a dog second row and would fit well with AWJ,if that is how they choose to play,but Grey will cover the second channel better,where the Aussies played a fair old bit today.On reflection THM PROBABLY has it, I thinK we will know by 50th min of next game when sub board held up.

Any of you move, I'll free kick ya. So stay were you are... Go!

Three jumpers = croft. Phillips didnt manage much quick ball on Saturday. For all of the excuses, he didnt play well and as earlier stated; I'm a big Phillips fan.
WRT back row play; I've played there for 22 years (open mostly but also blind and even left and right at times) and have learnt form some very good coaches including 3 mates who are currently playing professional rugby in the prem or championship. I've always been taught that the open side should lead the tackle count and be first to the breakdown (if he hasn't caused it). Then again, I'm not at or anywhere near international level and never have been.

Oh, and well done England youth team. World champions!

Totally agree with that.
7's job is to be there first.
Make the tackle. If someone else tackles, then win the ball. It's not easy but it's not complicated.
To give Warbs his due, he did lead the TC this week.
14 made, 2 missed.
Next were BOD with 11 made 0 missed, JD10/0, Heaslip 9/0, Corbs 8/2, and Croft 8/0.

That looks about right to me, centres and other back row should be next. Good shift from Corbs .

Hooper was top of Oz TC too with 14 made 1 missed
Next were their locks, blindside and hooker.

I like this one
[img] [/img]

I've always been taught that the open side should lead the tackle count

when Warburton has been most effective is when Lydiate does the chopping and he then goes in for the ball. Watch the All-Blacks too they run at Pocock to tie him up, if your tackling you cant be jackling, I doubt Richie MAcaw leads the tackle stats either. Having said all that refs and especially Pollock yesterday seem to want to rid the game of the jackel which may explain why the are using Warbs differently at the moment.

check this one out, how was Genia not done for holding on?
[img] [/img]

First one you can see the refs point about initially off his feet, second one is baffling
[img] [/img]
[img] [/img]

I doubt Richie MAcaw leads the tackle stats either

These clips just serve to show how hard it is to ref, you could call the penalty against both teams, he just gives it to the attacking team every time.

In the second one the Aussies could easily clear him out but they don't cos they know they will get the penalty.

wrecker,
You are not wrong. McCaw tops the NZ tackle count in about 95% of games he plays. Occasionally someone else has a stormer, or maybe he's at 8 and Cane's at 7 so it's tight. Usually makes about 16 a game.

Team tackle count could be around 120 ish.
So it's the other 100 odd tackles made by his team-mates where he tends to be next, or close to next to win the ball. 😉

In a similar vein, Lydiate nearly never tops TC's. He's good technique, and very noticeable. Doesn't miss many. But doesn't have the outright speed or game to be there that often that he tops the TC. Only one time in last two years that I can see is against Italy last year, 2012. Tips was 7 that day.

"I found that I could not reject as being implausible or improbable Horwill's explanation that Australia are running out of decent replacements"

QFT

I may stand corrected but Faletau often tops the tackle count for wales and lydiate regularly does. I know Faletau didnt miss a tackle at the world cup and he started every game.
Adam made two yesterday fat useless tub of lard.

Faletau tackles loads, saw one game where he had 22/0.
Lydiate tackles well, but probably not as much.
Warburton (if on form) as likely to top Wales TC as Faletau, more likely than Lydiate.

22 is a freaky number, only seen one other above 20.
15/16 is good for a 7.
12 is very good for a 6. Lydiate regularly gets around this when fit.

Warburton is playing well imo. What did he do wrong yesterday. Heaslip plsyed well too but Croft was rubbish. Won a few lineout and **** all else, not many tacklrs made and none broken. He is a luxary the lions cannot aford.

He made 8 tackles and missed none....he wasn't as good going forward as he needs to be to justify his selection but he was far from rubbish.

Surprised that Tom Youngs didn't feature as a top tackler, he regularly does so for England.

The stats lie though he missed two on the two gifs posted of the aussie tries but as he didnt get close enought to lay a hand on anyone they done count! He also f'd up a clear overlap with a forward pass.

As rubbish as Croft is (and you were never going to say anything else) you still owe me a pint. 😈

Croft didnt play badly. Neither did warbs. Neither played well (by their standards).
Best players were north, youngs, Corbs, AWJ and jones.
Worst was Phillips.
All IMHO of course.

Anyway **** it we won. Here's to next week. Fingers crossed for POC and Corbisero.

Fingers crossed for POC and Corbisero.

Tinybits. Indeed as i posted a while back name a charity and give them a few quid. I think that post was lost in all the bickering though.

Pick of the back rowers playing for me was Mowen. Not seen him before, but he was ace. Made his side of the scrum a complete no-go area. Battered anyone who tried to snipe around the rucks. Linked play wide, good hands and made yards running. And top lineout performance too. Up there with Genia and Folau for performance IMHO, but won't get the credit 'cos a lot of it's dog work.

Neither Croft or Warburton were "rubbish".
OK, but not brilliant from either. But Croft is more critical to the lineout.

SOB is our best chance at someone having a Mowen of a game.
There is no player in the squad that Oz are happier about not playing.

Totally missed that AA! RNLI or if anywhere in the West Country, the RUH newborn intensive care unit. After a harrowing 24hrs, my 5 day old is out and doing well, but so glad they were there.

Here?
http://www.ruh.nhs.uk/get_involved/forever_friends/index.asp?menu_id=3

Indeed Mowen was very good. The wallaby fringe defence was excellent the Lions wasnt which didnt help Phillips. Need to see more picking and driving up the guts next week to tie them in. Lack of front foot ball kills Phillips game.

If we had/used/been able to hit three jumpers then that would allow Phillips to go round the corner at the back. He didn't play well cos he was forced to pass, not his strong suit. Still; WE WON!And I would think that Gatland will be working towards forcing the Aussies into playing a game that suits us more.

AA, yes please.

Duckmam. I think your part right but Phillips actual passing is very good. The passes from tapped front ball to Sexton were very long and very accurate. Its the wind up from rucks that can take the time. As you say though Phillips was shit because the forwards didnt get over the gainline and so he tries to do it and things get worse. As you say he didnt have many runners coming of him like Genia did.
Tinybits will send a cheque tonight. Good luck with your kid. They are brilliant!

POC gone. Parling pulled from tomorrows team so I guess he's the replacement.

Thanks AA, it's number two and had a few teething troubles. All good now though!

POC is a big loss, Parling is a decent lock and an excellent line out operator. He's also good with Youngs, so maybe some better ball from the line out on Saturday.

He's often awol around the park though is Parling.

With the loss of POC Gatland should probably look at changing the backrow, i don't think he will, but i would like to see SOB in for Croft. POC does a lot of carrying around the ruck that Parling does not appear to.

We did not see enough carrying from Heaslip, perhaps because of the way the set piece was performing SOB would take on more of that than Croft.

Although if Tualagi or Roberts is back that gives an extra ball carrier in midfield...hmm perhaps undoing my own argument

I didn't say Phillips was poo A-A. What I was driving at was the Aussies forced him to pass from the middle/front of the line and stopped him coming round the back,which is one of his strengths. He also didn't get to dart round a forward moving pack. However it should also be remembered he was playing against the best 9 in the world( despite anything George North had to say during his run in 😀 )

@ loum - re tackle count. Didn't thierry Dusatoir make about 36 against the All Blacks a couple of world cup's back?

Digby Ioane and Pat Mcabe our of rest of series Barnes to miss next test...will Deans have to resort to calling up Quade Cooper

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/23027961

I do hope not...He can play a bit.

charlie,

You're right , it was ridiculous.
It was 38 for Dusatoir, out of a total of 178 for france.
Against 36 for the whole AB team.

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/home/news/newsid=2059872.html

found another silly one, Lydiate against Ireland In 2011 RWC, 24.

Didnt wales make over 180 tackles during the samoa world cup.game?