[Closed] suicide in young men. ( life is shit sometimes )

Agreed. My sister's partner did it just before Christmas and not a day goes by I don't think about him. We weren't even close (either relationship or location) but I can't help feeling I could have done something, if only to hear what he had to say. I hate that he felt he had to deal with whatever it was alone.
As someone who's been diagnosed with depression I know how hard it can be to talk to people but also how much it can help.
Anyone out there in a similar position, please don't keep it inside

So many things bloke's don't talk about, financial problems, not much family or friendship support network, job insecurities..

All manageable things on thier own but when things stack up.. It's quite easy to see how people get pushed over the edge..especially if trying to keep up apperences.

Sorry that's not any help to your situation but maybe he had other stuff going on that he felt was out of control.

My condoloces.

It's crap and devastating.

The statistics for suicide of teens to young men is frightening.

We've some friends whose 15 year old committed suicide - he was a week older than our eldest. Brings it home.

Extremely sorry to hear that, my condolences to all concerned.

I know the feeling, too well unfortunately. The only thing keeping me in check at the moment is the kids. They've already lost one parent, they don't need to go through that again. It's unbelievably lonely at night when they are all asleep. I worry constantly about what mattyfez said, and more. Trying my best to get through each day, but it's incredibly hard.

Sorry for all involved Ton. It can get a bit lonely when you feel like that and there doesn’t appear to be any other way out. I know of a couple of young guys who have committed suicide. So sad.

Gnusmas - you are an inspiration to us all, the way you have coped with all that has been thrown at you recently.

I have personally had some mental health issues the last 18 months or so (although I suspect it has been underlying for years and I’m just realising the symptoms now), been to some pretty dark places but have always managed to drag myself out the hole.

My thoughts are with all involved.

Awful times. Dropping like flys in society 🙁

Lots of broken people struggling on alone.

Mental health problems are hard to understand, tried to snap my sister out of it for a few years. I still dont understand it but accepting it exists was a huge step forward for us both.

Good friend hung himself when we were 11, cant really remember my thoughts back then as I'm 47 now but there was definitely a sense of confusion, why would someone so young and carefree, apparently, do that?

Wifes old friend from school, male, ended his life a couple of years ago on the motorway.

Acquaintance who appeared to have it all took his own life 18 months ago leaving a wife and two kids to carry on running the successful family business.....

I still dont understand mental health but it can happen anytime to anybody so ALWAYS chat to your mates about it. Every friday round the poker table I humorously ask them all if they are OK, any issues they want to talk about and tell them if they have anything at all they need to get off their chest to get in touch with me privately ......normally met with lots of homo erotic replies! We are all married, straight and with kids in cosy suburbia in seemingly happy lives....but you NEVER know and I've known them all since school days. They know I'm there for them and that can, but will hopefully never come to it, save a life.

Its so easy to chat to your mates about it.....SO DO IT!

My brother did it last year. It was devastating to my small family and the knock on effects are terrible.

My mum took it especially badly and I think the stress and depression made her ill. It's her funeral today.

@scott_mcavennie2 *hugs*

I was the last person to speak to my dad before he killed himself. I was a teenager at the time and I'd told him to **** off. Be kind, ask and listen to those close to you

My thought are with you all. I posted something at the weekend along related lines and have a little experience with mental health issues and where dark thoughts can lead you. I also found out this morning that someone else I knew has taken her life although she did that before the cancer did so although I’m sad about it (even if she was a bit racist at times) at least I can understand why.

I’ll be contacting old friends I’ve lost touch with this week and making sure I stay in touch.

The thing is that people who suffer with mental health issues can get really good at hiding it. My boss was recently diagnosed as bipolar and is doing great considering what he’s going through.

When I opened up to him and told him that I’ve suffered with depression most of my adult life, he was genuinely shocked. I spend a lot of time putting up a front and it takes its toll. Very tiring, but you get extremely good at it. I’ve been to some truly dark places over the years and been close to doing something irreversible a few times.

My thoughts are with anyone that is suffering.

That's terrible Ton. It's such a tragic waste.

So many other sad stories here. Hope you're all ok.

What we need to have is a cultural shift in this country. We need to break the really unhealthy link between a certain form of masculinity and mental health/depression.

It's the 21st century, not the 19th. We should no longer be equating depression, asking for help or saying you're struggling as some kind of admission you have failed as a man. We need to adopt the more open and supportive attitude that women seem to manage so well. This MTFU attitude needs to change because it's killing people!

If you've not seen it, there is a very unlikely champion of this. Fair play to him for trying to break this link and help people

I was at a funeral of a mate not more than 3-4 weeks ago, chucked himself of a bridge... shocked and astounded doesn't even begin to describe it...

It's a bloody strange world.

Binners, I agree but as I'm sure you know/can imagine it can still be very difficult and take courage to say something. Last month I stood up in my team meeting, did a 10 minute session on stress, depression and my experience of it and offered my ear should anyone want to talk at any time. However, that was my third attempt as I bottled it the first two as just didn't feel up to it. I'm glad I did it and I hope something good comes out of it but it wasn't easy

That's pretty brave of you swdan. Well done.

I've suffered from depression in the past and know how lonely, debilitating and isolating it is.

Locally a local group of blokes have set up a group for men who are feeling like this, as an outlet.

I'm sure many people will read that link and scoff at it. And they're the problem. I just know it has made a huge difference to the lives of one person, in particular, I know who has suffered terribly with depression over the years. And many others.

We need to see more of this kind of thing. Because I know myself how going out on a Monday Night Pub Ride and having the piss taken out of me for a couple of hours changes things, and how much the sense of community of this place helps when you're suffering

We need more of this approach and a lot less MTFU

Agree with all the above, I sort of half told my 2 closest friends last year and they were shocked I had gotten so low. It’s fair to say they make sure to keep pestering me with phone calls and WhatsApp messages etc. I’m not sure if they are conscious of this but it does help and I was surprised how understanding they were. I got back in to cycling again just after Christmas and it felt good to be back out.

I haven’t been it for a while though as I am struggling for motivation just now, feel very drained and run down, my aches and pains are playing up aswell which doesn’t help. I spoke to my boss 6 weeks ago about reducing my working hours and dropping every second Friday, said I really struggled with the work load last year etc.. he made all the right noises at the time but it’s coming into silly season at my work (wheel attendant in the road tanker industry) so everybody makes the best of the dry weather. Needless to say sod all has changed, I’m still struggling with the work load, still doing 15 hour days and still waiting for an answer on my request to drop the Friday. There is enough cover across the board but the thought of a lorry parked up every second Friday obviously doesn’t sit well with him.. I don’t suppose me going off again with stress and exhaustion has even occurred to him.

I have nothing left to give energy wise, have been on empty for months now and I sometimes wonder what people expect of me but you just have to keep on going.

Anyway, rant over. Stay safe chaps and lasses.

The stats are crazy.
A guy directly opposite us hung himself about 18 months ago.
saw his daughters off to school then jumped out of the loft hatch. Scary.

I have managed to arrange a mental health awareness course for all of our line managers in our dept with st john ambulance. Am hoping this will give some clues and assistance in maybe spotting some of the warning signs ahead of time

I don't know if anyone else listened to Clarke Carlisle and his wife on Radio 4's All in the Mind last night but it's worth listening to on catch up.

At my old workplace about 18 months ago once everyone had arrived for the day they called everyone together and told us that one of my colleagues had committed suicide over the weekend (he hung himself).

He was slightly younger than me (late 30's), I didn't know him that well, he seemed outwardly fine whenever I spoke to him.

Sad stories. The charity PAPYRUS works to prevent young suicide, and has some useful resources on their website.

Sorry to hear that Ton. I have to admit I have been lucky to have zero experience of this in my 54 years until last year.

My mate was approaching 50 and he organised for 16 of us to spend a long weekend away in Bedoin last June to celebrate. We rode the cingles du Ventoux and all agreed it was the best cycling day out ever (and I like to think I've had some pretty great cycling experiences).

Three months later he left his house at around midnight (without the wife and two teenage boys knowledge) and cycled 120km down to Beachy Head and well, you can guess the rest. He even uploaded the ride to Strava before he did it.

I'd known him about five years and on the face of it he was the happiest guy you could meet. always positive and upbeat. He had been encouraging me to return from my badly broken wrist I suffered just after Ventoux.

Others had known him for 30+ years and still had no idea why.

It was devastating for all who knew him.

It's awful, and for everyone who's been affected by it, just horrible.

One thing did jump out in the OP

but something must have been seriously wrong in his mind.

...not as something I disagree with, but just a thought. Maybe the view is that in order to do something like take your own life, something has to be 'seriously wrong' - and maybe that's partly why nobody ever really talks about it openly. But given the numbers and prevalence and how common depression is, perhaps we're thinking about it wrong.

I'm struggling to articulate it, but it seems that especially for people with long-term depression, it's less about 'something seriously wrong', but more about a longer-term issue combined with a short, sudden onset of dark clouds (which can occur worryingly suddenly).

Nicko - I totally agree, the change I think we need to make is to really understand that this is no different to any other disease. Viral infection, cancer etc and treat is a such. No one chooses to die from cancer but it happens, I would argue that if you are suffering from depression the 'choice' to commit suicide is not a choice at all, it is just one option as a result of the disease, much like recovery, extended illness or death can be from a lot of diseases

Some really sad stories on here. Thoughts are with all those impacted, it's never easy to deal with.

A lot of people saying "commit suicide".

It was decriminalised in 1961 in England and Wales, so no crime has been committed.

the change I think we need to make is to really understand that this is no different to any other disease

It's a huge shift though. On LinkedIn you often see platitudes about "we take mental wellbeing seriously" and the like; it's a start of course, but only a tiny step. I've thought about posting more honestly and openly on there about the challenges of mental health and depression, as a way to prompt genuine discussion in my industry about it, but have held off because I'm pretty sure I'd lose business as a result - from clients not understanding and preferring to go with someone more "stable".

Rant\Society is ****ed. We've no community any more. We live in bubbles isolated by distance from family and friends. Kids can't play in the park because of all the dogshit. We work, watch telly and sleep. Nobody has free time because the cost of living is so high. Everything is set up for us to be good little consumers, earning to spend and buy. A quick giving an endorphins buzz where a cuddle used to do. Men are getting it bad now. Feminism needs to include men now and the balance of freedom and responsibility evened up./endrant

So much sadness on this thread. So much support from forum users. You guys are awesome. OP, I hope everyone finds a way forward and upwards.

A mate did it and my cousin did it.

My aunt and uncle are still suffering 20+ years later.

Work colleagues' son committed suicide last week at 20 . Absolutely devastating and totally out of the blue.

https://theoutline.com/post/7267/living-with-passive-suicidal-ideation?zd=1&zi=ovlmognp

This has been my life on and off for about 20 years now. I have periods where I tread water, some where I even swim. And many where it is just too tempting to stop fighting against the thoughts and events I cannot control and let the waters close over my head, just to be free from battling against my own brain and its insistence that everything I am and will be is of no consequence to anyone.

But I have (as the article describes) flotation devices that keep my head above water, so for the moment I carry on.

I think in reality I don't want to die, I just want the static and the noise and the anxiety and worry to stop. But that's modern life, so on we go..

read all the replies on here. it is a more common thing than I ever knew.

and if any of you blokes need someone to vent to and let off steam or just have a natter, feel free to contact me any time.

my email is thoss20@hotmail.co.uk

keep strong fellas, not only for your families, but moreso for yourselves.

Currently going through a dark patch, had booked a couple of days off and it clashes with a BS audit, when the MD found out that my line manager had dropped a bollock it felt like payback. Was tasked with compiling a safety data sheet before I went on leave,at 4pm. Had viscous email off line manager saying that my work spaces were unsatisfactory. Basically I went into meltdown, went to work the following morning at 4am, compiled the data sheets, and sent everything else out.

Went to the Doc's afterwards and broke down, was issued with a sick note giving Anxiety with depression, signed off for two weeks. Went back in and was signed off again, this time for 4 weeks. Next day I received a letter from work asking for my consent to access my medical records, with veiled threats, then received a letter advising me that I'm under investigation for misuse of company email address. At the moment I am really struggling not to do something stupid. I have been on citalopram for years, but this latest episode is proving difficult to say the least

Jimster, that sounds like a properly rubbish work situation. Remember though, your work life does not equal your life. Sounds like you need to find a better employer. If you can make that happen then things might start to look a whole lot brighter. Do not give up!

That sounds shit jimster, sorry to hear it. Take the time you need to get yourself right and forget about work for now.
Your employer has no right access your medical records - ask for an occupational health referral, if they deem it necessary they will get consent and write to gp for info, not directly your employer.(I'm an occ health nurse)
Do you have an employee assistance program you can access for support? Often quicker than via gp route.
Many on here, me included, happy to speak as I think most of us have been there at some point to some degree.
Keep posting here, amazing support available from bunch of random strangers.

The scale of the issue is frightening, I've had two friends take their own lives over the years, one we knew had issues but the other was a bolt from the blue - both were over 40. Since the latter, I've had a bit of training to try & help recognise the indicators etc but have thankfully not seen anything requiring any form of intervention as yet.

On Easter Sunday my son & I joined up with an amazing 'event' organised by a football fan who has experienced his own mental health issues. It sounds simple, but a group of about 120 people walked the 12 miles or so from Selhurst Park to the Emirates with one aim - highlight mental health & give folk an opportunity to talk openly without fear. By the end the number had probably doubled.

For those on Twitter you can search #WalkAndTalk or look up the organiser @HC15Ontour if it's of interest.

I have to say, there were some seriously brave people willing to be very open about their own circumstances or having had to deal with the fall out of suicide & I wish there were more opportunities like this to encourage anyone who needs help to talk to someone, anyone.

I get the feeling our connected world is actually disconnecting us from each other....

Thanks for the advise guys, we're currently looking into finding a new job/career. The company only has 10 employees, four in Europe, three on the road in the UK. I'm the only person who deals with suppliers/stock/data sheets and all the other crap. Basically it comes down to the fact my line manager hasn't any idea of my workload until it's too late. If it gets too much for me as the day wears on you can't get agency staff in in the afternoon. They have no plan B in place, BS auditor picked up on this last year.

What we need to have is a cultural shift in this country. We need to break the really unhealthy link between a certain form of masculinity and mental health/depression.

Our system is broken. In general, women are abused more than men and men are less able to cope. We need to change it.

Although the point about men and "big boys don't cry" is pertinent depression is endemic in our society and we need to get to the root causes.

IMO this is the hopeless mismatch between the dreams we are sold and the reality of our lives. Take cars for one example - we are sold them as inspirational, as freedom machines and as all sorts of positive things. the reality is half your wage goes into paying for it and you spend half your life sitting in traffic getting frustrated.

Work so hard, get your nice house in suburbia, wife, kiddies in school and all sorts of classes. Are you happy? Or is your life still unsatisfying? Or worse - work so hard and you cannot even get those things that you are told will make you happy.

To me one of the key things is time outdoors. That and working less hours and being less aspirational towards material things and more towards the things that truly make us happy. For me this is wandering around the mountains. Hardly aspirational but boy does it clear the rubbish from y9ur mind and let you know what your real needs are.

Awful reading. I am still staggered by the fact that the biggest killer for men under 45 is Suicide.

I cant really add to anything already said, but I think TJ is spot on.

The post above re daily whatsapp messages is spot on - a couple of friends are struggling so I send them a daily message. Someone I know far more experienced in this than me told me the only way I could get them out was to knock on their door, hold their hand and help them down the street.

Such a shame, but you have to want to help yourself too.

MO this is the hopeless mismatch between the dreams we are sold and the reality of our lives. Take cars for one example – we are sold them as inspirational, as freedom machines and as all sorts of positive things. the reality is half your wage goes into paying for it and you spend half your life sitting in traffic getting frustrated.

Work so hard, get your nice house in suburbia, wife, kiddies in school and all sorts of classes. Are you happy? Or is your life still unsatisfying? Or worse – work so hard and you cannot even get those things that you are told will make you happy.

I understand what you are trying to say, but that’s a sweeping generalisation. Depression wears many faces and what you outline is just one of the many things that can help cause it. I’ve suffered for years and it has nothing to do with money or wanting the next pointless status symbol.

To be totally honest I don’t even know why or how I started suffering with it. Just remember going from being full of life and energy in my early teens to spending my eighteenth birthday contemplating ending it all for the first time. Life is kinda ****ed up like that.

The thing is, once you’ve been to a place where you’ve considered ending it all it’s pretty tough to get all the way back. I’ve never managed it. I’m not doing a great job of getting my point across here, sorry. For me it’s like watching the bonus content for your favourite film. Once you’ve seen that it’s all just smoke, mirrors, make up and special effects you’ll never view it the same way. Something that made it magical has now gone. That’s what depression has done to me. Stripped away that thin veneer that gave life a purpose.

Sorry - that was not meant to trivilise things in any way and of course a sweeping generalisation. My point is that when 1:3 of us will need treatment for mental health issues at some point in their lives then something is wrong on the level of society. Its not just about individuals issues - this is an epidemic ( or pandemic?)

Stripped away that thin veneer that gave life a purpose.

Thats sort of what I was trying to get to. We need a purpose but the things we are conditioned to chase do not make us happy

We need as a society something that makes us all healthier mentally. The mental health equivalent of the victorians building sewers that stopped diseases from contaminated water.

I completely agree TJ. Finding a purpose is difficult and is likely a huge contributory factor to why a lot of people suffer. The attitudes towards mental health in general need huge improvements.

So sorry to hear all the tragic stories.

We have had two suicides on my mother’s side of the family in recent years. My mum’s sister in 2013 and then her son (mid 40’s), my cousin, took his life 14 months ago. Both had been struggling with mental health issues for some time. Suicide leaves so many ripples in the pond for all involved from family to friends to work colleges and so on and so on.

After 14 months I’m still thinking ‘if only this, if only that’.

https://www.thecalmzone.net

I do wonder if the suicide rate is as high in 'laid back' countries like Spain , Portugal, Greece , Turkey and to some extent france?
TJ has a valid point though , we are bombarded with adverts for shiney trinkets all day , everyday . When in reality who gives a stuff if your car is 3 or 9 years old.
Maybe its spendaholic women who see burning through the family joint income as some sort of mission, on stuff you could happily live without , I really dont know.
There will be background causes that will never come to light , someone having 'mental health issues ' could be being sexually abused , bullied at work , PTSD , a torrid affair or unrequited love , marriage break down . Without sounding like Geetee some guys may be suffering domstic abuse. Alot of the time there will be no evidence.
I do know that parents should never have to bury their children , that must be soul destroying.
Maybe it just seems like the only way out of the situation they are in , there is no option , no plan b . No point in carrying on , no point in getting out of bed, no point in going to work to be shouted at for doing the best you can in a job you despise.
I sometimes wonder if cycling doesnt help.Like an addictive drug the endorphin high of a great day out on a bike , thn returning to the mundane , when all you want to do is to get out in the sunshine and ride for even longer. You do not get the same buzz watching Pointless.
Life is tough , and I do think we make it tougher on ourselves

When you see populations in very poor countries there doesn't seem to be much depression. In our first world consumer driven country it seems that we expect to have a right to happiness.
As TJ says, it seems the simple things such as going out into the hills, visiting your close friends and only family members that you love and they love you.
This world is phone mad. Facebook is full of people seemingly having a wonderful time, lets face it we're not going to show pictures of misery and things going wrong in our lives. This constant bombardment of things such as strava isn't healthy either, too competitive and taking away time from doing proper things. Family life gets disrupted when screen time takes up hobbies,sport or activities that can be done together.

As a female it is indeed easier to talk about mental health issues to other females. Men do need to take note and talk about their depression. It's so important.

I've spoken to complete strangers and just started to ask questions and trying to listen. Men often open up to me (when I used to lead walks, or in the local swimming baths, even out mtbing in the hills).

Sorry for waffling on but if one life can be saved and help given then that is worth it.

Member
Rant\Society is ****. We’ve no community any more. We live in bubbles isolated by distance from family and friends. Kids can’t play in the park because of all the dogshit. We work, watch telly and sleep.

Agree with this. My wifes family were/are pretty well of Filipinos - she went to an American international school then a UK university. She's clever, speaks three more languages than I do and English in an American accent, works in finance and earns a good whack. She's a bit of a melancholy soul though.

Some of her extended family are pretty poor, tin roofing etc - not living in a shanty town but live day to day, most of the older males are dead, lots of kids and unemployed family members. However, they always have massive shit eating grins - the family and friendship bonds are strong and the weather is good.

When you see populations in very poor countries there doesn’t seem to be much depression. In our first world consumer driven country it seems that we expect to have a right to happiness.

It's not that westerners have an expectation to be happy, it's that a lot of developing worlders are happier. For the reasons TJ states and my points above.

Even the people who work long hours in Vietnam, Thailand and the Philippines are happier - because at night time - food is cheap, the cities are vibrant 24/7, you can always afford to eat street food out with your friends after work if you are a professional, you stay out late with friends and family, enjoy the smells and good company and then crash out for 6 hours and rinse and repeat.

Men often open up to me (when I used to lead walks, or in the local swimming baths, even out mtbing in the hills).

If you have a male friend who you feel needs to talk then take the above route and do something where you will be side by side and not face to face and will have another reason to be there. A few years ago I listened to an ex soldier on Radio 4 talking about his work with men suffering from depression and he took them walking while they talked.He made the point that men opened up far more that way, he likened it to sitting at a bar where you'd get far more out of someone than sat across a table. I also recall an ex colleague who always said how his son only really talked openly to him when they were walking or cycling together.

Such a shame, but you have to want to help yourself too.

That's real tricky, just starting on helping a family member on this long journey

Hate to say this, but I think in private industry the attitude of "pull yourself together" still exists, and the pace of communication that exists now is not helpful.
I'm 55, when I first started working we had the telex, which moved onto fax, then it sped up with email, then email on your phone. There is no escape from technology, and it's destroying families, communities, society.

I don't think technology is itself to blame, how we use it reflects social attitudes towards commercialism, inclusion and status. For myself it's a lifeline where I can communicate to such diverse network of people, whereas I can't in my physical life.

A month before he killed himself my dad came home in tears saying that he'd made a mistake and had to speak to my mum, he never spoke to anyone about it despite having a lot of good friends. A week after my 17th birthday I had an argument with him and told him where to go, the next morning he decided to take the day off work as he had a headache and went to put his van in the lockup. He was found 4 days later, then buried on Christmas eve.

It's not the memories which hurt but the social stigma it attached to those who were left behind did. It's not talked about, even as a family and my mum was a therapist!

I've felt a sob rise a few times reading this thread, some of you are having such a rough time and others have been so thoughtful and taken time out to let someone know that they care and to just listen. Unfortunately it's rare, it takes a lot of courage to talk of the difficulties you are having, and too many dismiss concerns or issues as drama or chin up if you're feeling not worthy.

aweeshoe - I am so sorry to read your post. Your situation is one I wouldn't wish on anyone.

bunnyhop x

but something must have been seriously wrong in his mind

Ever been to a party where everyone is having a great time, but you feel a little out of place? You try to get along and wear a smile, it's a party after all so you want to look happy like everyone else. But secretly you're just waiting for the right moment to slip away unnoticed confident that no one will miss you when you're gone.
I guess for some people life is a bit like this.

Ever been to a party where everyone is having a great time, but you feel a little out of place?

Sounds similar to a guy I was talking to the other day. He said, no matter what was going on around him, he felt like the 'designated driver' on a night out. Irrespective of who he was with, or where, it was like he was missing out/not enjoying himself like everyone else. This made him feel that he was different to everyone else & that feeling made him feel like he didn't belong/fit in whether socially or at work.

His turning point was both simple & fortuitous. He was asked to walk his mum's dog as she'd hurt her knee. He didn't want to but did so & within minutes, another dog came over (as they do) & the owner followed & started talking to him. They walked round the park for 45 mins & he completely opened up to the stranger. Since then he's sought help & is getting his life back (& has a new friend in that dog walker).

He considers himself one of the lucky ones.

Ever been to a party where everyone is having a great time, but you feel a little out of place? You try to get along and wear a smile, it’s a party after all so you want to look happy like everyone else. But secretly you’re just waiting for the right moment to slip away unnoticed confident that no one will miss you when you’re gone.
I guess for some people life is a bit like this.

That’s what I was trying to say earlier in the thread, but you’ve explained it so much better than I did.

aweeshoe after your kind words to me I can't imagine what you went through and I'm sorry that you had to.

Nobby, every now and then you read a summary that describes how you feel more eloquently than you could. What you wrote is that for me. I've never felt I fitted in and have always been an outsider even with those I love and who love me.

Ever been to a party where everyone is having a great time, but you feel a little out of place? You try to get along and wear a smile, it’s a party after all so you want to look happy like everyone else. But secretly you’re just waiting for the right moment to slip away unnoticed confident that no one will miss you when you’re gone.
I guess for some people life is a bit like this.

That is a very good description of it. And unfortunately that describes me and my way of thinking. Thinking back to my teens, I've always been this way so maybe it's a long term underlying issue I've not faced or dealt with.

The only place (I hope) I fit in is here. But I question that sometimes too.

I never contribute to these threads, but I always read them. Someone always comes out with a little nugget of info or a description of something that I can directly relate to. It's a useful reminder that no matter how far down you are your situation is far from uniquely horrible.

This struck a chord with me yesterday,

The thing is, once you’ve been to a place where you’ve considered ending it all it’s pretty tough to get all the way back. I’ve never managed it.

That's how I tried to explain it to my girlfriend. I feel like I've been so far down for so long that I can't come all the way back to normal. I never fully switch off or fully enjoy myself. It's ruined my family and social life. Everything i do for 'fun' is just a distraction. As soon as it's over and I'm on my own my brain goes straight back to the same old places.

I'm alright at the minute, everything is going well, but I'm not the same person I used to be. It's when you can't get any enjoyment from the things that you know you love it just feels like all the reasons to do anything have been sucked out of your life. When all the things that usually get you excited or cheer you up stop working, why bother with them? Getting ready for a bike ride now is a major battle which half the time I lose and I just waste the day.

I can't type much more, I'm at work but I'll keep reading.

Stevet1 - Exactly this. Even at large family gatherings I'll find somewhere to hide away.

Ever been to a party where everyone is having a great time, but you feel a little out of place? You try to get along and wear a smile, it’s a party after all so you want to look happy like everyone else. But secretly you’re just waiting for the right moment to slip away unnoticed confident that no one will miss you when you’re gone.
I guess for some people life is a bit like this.

every single ****ing day of my life for the past couple of years or so. it's awful. and i don't feel able to talk to anyone about it, because i just assume i'm an annoyance. literally the only thing keeping me going is my little boy.

Is this ^^^^^^ not just your personality? I.e an introvert as opposed to an extrovert? I used to feel jealous of people that were life and soul of any gathering as opposed to how i have always been, but I have just accepted that that is how I am and am happy with it this way.

I'm not trying to make light of any issues raised here, I know its a very serious issue and something that a lot of people are struggling with.

i think, for me definitely, there's an element of being an introvert to it, yes. but it doesn't explain it all, i mean i don't go to parties if i can help it anyway but feeling like i'm out of place even when just in a public place with a few people isn't simple personality type, is it?

gonefishin, the guy who said those words to me had spent a good 30 years of his life believing he didn't fit in, even with his limited circle of friends. The mini-epiphany he had when, for the first time he could remember, a complete stranger spoke to him without reason (not a shop assistant, colleague etc) was all it took to turn a corner. He says he's a long way from getting his head fully straight but the therapy he's been having has taught him that we are all different and that any perceived 'norm' is simply a construct of society.

I did suggest he got a bike & started riding a bit (he's not really a walker nor can he have a dog of his own at the moment) as they do seem to have a way of disarming people's natural wariness of strangers. There's also other cyclists who will usually be happy to pootle along with you talking absolute **** too.

He reminds himself every day that many of the most influential humans that ever lived didn't exactly fit in or conform to 'normality', whatever that might be. I think that's sound advice for anyone.

Edit: Just remembered that a much younger lad on the same walk said he often felt like "a fish in a tree" which struck a chord with quite a few. Thought that was funny at first but it soon made sense listening to them talk.

I'm another one who is on the fringes and never fitted in, it's a lonely place to be and I reached out to someone I thought was a friend but was told that I'm a drama queen (among other insults, and this person wants to be a special needs mtb coach!) . I no longer have any friends to turn to when I'm down as I'm autistic, and reluctantly beginning to accept that I won't ever be

feeling like i’m out of place even when just in a public place with a few people isn’t simple personality type, is it?

xherbivorex (and others) - You. are. not. alone.

Edit - meant that in a reassuring way, rather then a serial killer hiding in your attic kind of way.

The thing is, once you’ve been to a place where you’ve considered ending it all it’s pretty tough to get all the way back. I’ve never managed it.

That’s how I tried to explain it to my girlfriend. I feel like I’ve been so far down for so long that I can’t come all the way back to normal. I never fully switch off or fully enjoy myself. It’s ruined my family and social life. Everything i do for ‘fun’ is just a distraction. As soon as it’s over and I’m on my own my brain goes straight back to the same old places.

I’m alright at the minute, everything is going well, but I’m not the same person I used to be. It’s when you can’t get any enjoyment from the things that you know you love it just feels like all the reasons to do anything have been sucked out of your life. When all the things that usually get you excited or cheer you up stop working, why bother with them? Getting ready for a bike ride now is a major battle which half the time I lose and I just waste the day.

Funny thing is that I typed what struck a chord with you and you’re response has done the same for me. The worst part for me is how it affects my wife, she deserves better. Living with someone who has depression is really hard.

My biggest fear is that the kids will pick up on it and I don’t want my problems to impact them. My little immediate family are my life raft and I cling to them for dear life. My son telling me about his day (mostly made up craziness) and cuddling my sweet natured daughter or just watching her amble about are the things I still take pleasure from.

Funny thing is that I typed what struck a chord with you and you’re response has done the same for me.

See that's why this place is amazing sometimes!

I don't feel like I explained the second bit very well. I just think years ago I had lots of things that were guaranteed pick-me-ups that would get me out of a slump. Now, when I'm doing something or in a situation where I should be thrilled or excited or whatever, I'm just not into it and finding yourself indifferent about what used to be your passions give me a huge deflating sense of 'well what's the point?' I get really miserable about the thought that I used to have so much going on in my life and I've let almost all of it go.

My girlfriend is an absolute saint. I've literally never met a nicer, more generous person in my life. I don't have crazy mood swings or treat her badly or anything but when I'm in a slump I'm not much fun to be around. She always just knows to do the right thing at the right time. We don't have kids yet. I'm terrified in case they grow up like me!

Hate to say this, but I think in private industry the attitude of “pull yourself together” still exists, and the pace of communication that exists now is not helpful.

This attitude is still incredibly prevalent. Privately people do feel some sympathy - although often they'll feel unable to help because they think it's so incomprehensible - but outwardly and in business settings the default is still there's something "wrong" with you.
And "wrong" -> "weird" -> "disturbing/ not someone you want to work with".

So it's like the onus is on *you* to pull yourself together and sort it out. Possibly some of this is perception that we imagine in our heads, but there's still a gap between the public statements of "we encourage people to talk about it" and the actual behaviour and support in the workplace.
And if you find yourself in tears at your desk because... well, you don't really know why... where tf do you start in trying to explain to colleagues that this is OK, it just comes and goes but mostly you have it under control?

I’m another one who is on the fringes and never fitted in, it’s a lonely place to be and I reached out to someone I thought was a friend but was told that I’m a drama queen (among other insults, and this person wants to be a special needs mtb coach!) . I no longer have any friends to turn to when I’m down as I’m autistic, and reluctantly beginning to accept that I won’t ever be

As a fellow ASD I sometimes feel this and go through stages of wanting alone time and to wallow in it, but my friends are there because they want to be and are pretty good at giving me a reason to come out of it.
All my closest friends I made as an adult, so there's no reason why you can't make new and brilliant friends right now. I've got an incredibly understanding and supportive mate who I've only known a couple of years but can turn to if i need to talk.
Whatever your passion is, there must be an avenue to meet new people through that?

See that’s why this place is amazing sometimes!

I don’t feel like I explained the second bit very well. I just think years ago I had lots of things that were guaranteed pick-me-ups that would get me out of a slump. Now, when I’m doing something or in a situation where I should be thrilled or excited or whatever, I’m just not into it and finding yourself indifferent about what used to be your passions give me a huge deflating sense of ‘well what’s the point?’ I get really miserable about the thought that I used to have so much going on in my life and I’ve let almost all of it go.

Sums up my feelings too. Nothing surprises me any more, be that in a good or bad way. I just have a kind of detachment from 99.9% of the things going on around me. Recently quit going to the gym and slowly losing interest in other pursuits as my motivation has gone completely.

The thing is I don’t know how much of this feeling is down to antidepressants. They kind of numb me and I can’t weigh up if the pros (not getting as low, more stable mood, no panic attack’s etc) outweigh the cons (feeling like a robot, loss of really good moods etc). Keep toying with coming off them as it’s been five years now. Not sure how I’ll be though and that worries me.

I should have really created another login before unloading on this thread 😂

It’s not the memories which hurt but the social stigma it attached to those who were left behind did. It’s not talked about, even as a family and my mum was a therapist!

This.

When my brother took his own life we found that some people shied away from us and the subject was always quickly moved along if I made the mistake of mentioning it in conversation. We also found that the police & coroners assistants etc treated it still as a crime - his truck was continually referred to as a crime scene etc.

The inquest was awful - ghouls in the public gallery whispering excitedly whenever anything came up of interest.

As I mentioned earlier I do feel that the stress caused by the whole prolonged experience was a direct cause of my mother's cancer. Although she didn't help matters herself by refusing to talk about it to anyone other than immediate family. When she was dying I had to contact her relatives and explain that she was dying and then also explain that my brother took his own life last year - which was slightly awkward.

Privately people do feel some sympathy – although often they’ll feel unable to help because they think it’s so incomprehensible – but outwardly and in business settings the default is still there’s something “wrong” with you.
And “wrong” -> “weird” -> “disturbing/ not someone you want to work with”.

So it’s like the onus is on *you* to pull yourself together and sort it out. Possibly some of this is perception that we imagine in our heads, but there’s still a gap between the public statements of “we encourage people to talk about it” and the actual behaviour and support in the workplace.
And if you find yourself in tears at your desk because… well, you don’t really know why… where tf do you start in trying to explain to colleagues that this is OK, it just comes and goes but mostly you have it under control?

this is definitely my experience at my work- employer made a big show of "supporting" mental health awareness week/month, but actual, genuine empathy, understanding and support for anyone who needed it was more or less non-existent. and as for direct line managers/colleagues- nope. "hand back your man card" was said to me one day after a bit of an episode at my desk when things got too much for me.

Lots of reasons, lots of suffering, but one sentence stands out from all the above, "talk to somebody", they will usually listen, if they dont try someone else, a bike ride, a walk a drive in a vehicle, all help to start chat.

“hand back your man card” was said to me one day after a bit of an episode at my desk when things got too much for me.

Just wow. If I'd been there I'd have ignored my usual self control & punched his 'man card' into next week.

I think I'm fortunate that whilst my employer also "makes the right noises", they are fairly proactive. They openly encourage (& pay for) staff to undertake awareness training including 'mental first aid' with MHFA England.

One of the things I hate most about British culture is the 'stiff upper lip' tosh - it's grade A arse-chutney.

I'll happily listen to/talk to anyone.

Nobody is super human. Looking after the mind/head is as important as the body. Iv'e been on various CBT and counselling sessions the last 6 months - it's helped me cope (massive injury plus work pressure, finances and family issues - carer responsibility). Getting through it, but now have more work crap, but I'm 'well' enough to fight back and not take shoot from my employer.

I did need encouraging to get help, but it has worked. Fixing the head is important. As a fella it's too easy to feel a failure and it just gets worse.

just been to visit my son and his girlfriend.

they are in total turmoil.
they have spent the week trying to get to the bottom of all the hidden stuff that her husband has left.
lots and lots of debt from payday lenders, a house falling apart around him, and a girlfriend with a 3 month child that nobody knew about.
poor lad must have been in turmoil.

lots and lots of debt from payday lenders, a house falling apart around him, and a girlfriend with a 3 month child that nobody knew about.
poor lad must have been in turmoil.

& I'd be very surprised if his job had absolutely nothing to do with it as well Tony.

xherbivorex I think that you work in Manchester? If ever want to meet up for a coffee or a burrito or something then let me know. I'm happy to talk about anything or nothing 🙂

Ton - just sent you a PM.