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Going back to ethnicity of grooming gangs....
BBC News - Twenty-one convicted in West Midlands child sex abuse inquiry
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-65189785
**** sake that makes grim reading.
Going back to ethnicity of grooming gangs….
Shhh, that undermines the narrative.
Shhh, that undermines the narrative.
Damn, you've seen through my cunning plan
**** sake that makes grim reading.
Doesn't it just. What makes it even more depressing is that the whole issue is being cynically used as a piece of political grandstanding by these morally bankrupt shysters
I have just discovered that the chief crown prosecutor who prosecuted the Rochdale grooming gangs, Nazir Afzal, is of ****stani parents and is a practicing Muslim.
The racists kept that quiet.
It's almost as if you can get both good and bad Muslim/British ****stanis, a bit like white Brits I guess. Who would have thought it?
I'm struggling to get my head round the 4D chess that's going on here.
It's a horrific case from what I heard on the radio on the way home and from the little I've read since - not that I'm going out of my way to read stuff. And of course 'easy' points could be scored by asking why the ethnicity of the convicted is not front and centre in the reporting of it, given this week's pronouncements that we mustn't shy away from confronting it.
That's the bit I don't get. Although the reporting has been kept secret because of the type and duration of the trials going on, I can't believe that the PM, Home Sec, etc., and relevant advisors are not fully aware of what is going on and that it's a white gang that did it. And consequently the obvious challenge that seems to be coming.
Is it some sort of trap they expect their critics to fall into that I can't see. Are they taking aim at '****stani grooming gangs' in spite of knowing this in some sort of attempt to appeal to their far right support? I just don't quite get why they've been all over ethnicity of grooming gangs with this about to break?
^^ The "market" they are aiming for simply sees the facts they want to see. No 4D chess required.
"I can’t believe that the PM, Home Sec, etc., and relevant advisors are not fully aware of what is going on"
I can... Just like with the shooting of refugees in Rwanda that Cruella was pulled up on the other day on sky News, this government hasn't got a scooby doo.
They don't listen to advisors and Civil Servants, why would they when they've got Tommy Robinson and Paul Dacre on speed dial?
I also wonder if said advisors and Civil servants no longer bother to inform their masters of pesky little things like the facts, or the truth. Instead they just take the insults that are thrown in their direction and wait for their bosses to fall flat on their face.
If your bosses were constantly castigating you in front of the public, wouldn't you keep mum if you knew there was a rotting banana skin waiting for your Cabinet Secretary a couple of steps down the road?
ethnicity of the convicted
It isn't even that, it is the ethnicity of "suspects", in other words innocent people in the eyes of the law, a point which as a lawyer Braverman understands very well.
https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1642813082492624897
It might seem a small point but the use of the term "suspect" rather than "those convicted" will definitely have been deliberate so it makes me wonder why, ie, what was the thinking?
With regards to the latest grooming/ paedophile gang conviction, just an observation - there were a surprising amount of women involved, I suspect that the possibility of them having been abused as children is very high, as sadly is also the possibility of some of the men involved. As apparently it is often the case. It really does **** up people's heads, the lasting damage is immense.
Those responsible should be relentlessly pursued and the victims provided with a appropriate and long-term support. Which of course costs money.
It isn’t even that, it is the ethnicity of “suspects”, in other words innocent people in the eyes of the law, a point which as a lawyer Braverman understands very well.
The words "as a lawyer" are doing a lot of lifting there!
Why?
I think the extent of her experience in the legal profession never made it past the office photocopier in a lawyers office.
She does have a Grant Shapps-esque capacity for building her part up though
Why
Binners beat me to it.
Yeah I knew about the alleged exaggeration of her contributions to a text book but she did qualify as a barrister. She would definitely be aware of the concept of 'innocent until proven guilty'.
She would definitely be aware of the concept of ‘innocent until proven guilty’.
I think it's very much a theoretical concept to her
I’m struggling to get my head round the 4D chess that’s going on here.
The recent case has 7 victims - I guess there may be more. A conservative estimate is that there were 1,400 victims in Rotherham and 1,000 in Telford.
I think that you might have missed theotherjonv's point mefty.
I didn't get the impression that it was some sort of competition between this case and previous cases. Yes Rotherham involved far more people and was for a much longer period before the authorities put a stop to it.
But this latest case was apparently the largest ever child sex abuse case investigated by West Midlands Police. And the victims particularly young - the eldest 12 years old.
The very fact that so far only 7 victims have been identified actually probably makes it even worse imo. 7 children, the eldest 12, abused by 21 people for almost 10 years? FFS.
Hard as it might be to say one child abused 200 times must be worse than one child abused twice. The number of perpetrators is possibly even more of an issue than the number of victims, in my humble and completely non-expert opinion.
Anyway I understood theotherjonv's point to be not about the severity of the case but the fact that Braverman would have aware that the story was about to break and yet banged on about ****stani child abuse gangs.
I think Rishi Sunak was more careful than Braverman and didn't mention "****stani" when talking about grooming gangs.
See "GollyGate" has come back to bite her in the arse.
In what way?
See “GollyGate” has come back to bite her in the arse.
Is she in a bit of a jam?
She claimed she had told the police not to bother with such minor nonsense and to get on with catching real criminals. the police force deny this.
I know who I believe and its not Sue Ellen
welcome to the white Hart Lynching reenactment Night.
Another please shut with your racist shit letter
The Guardian has this quote from her.
She confirmed that her husband had been photographed in a T-shirt from the far-right group Britain First. She said: “I don’t think Chris is a supporter of Britain First, he was just wearing that shirt because it was convenient at the time.”
I mean who hasnt stuck on a t-shirt from a far right group since it just happened to be handy?
She claimed she had told the police not to bother with such minor nonsense and to get on with catching real criminals. the police force deny this.
I know who I believe and its not Sue Ellen
I don't think she did. Apparently a "Home Office source" made that claim, not Braverman. The police are saying that the Home Secretary hasn't contacted them, which contradicts the Home Office source, not Braverman.
I don’t think she did. Apparently a “Home Office source” made that claim, not Braverman
Its being quoted as "source close to Braverman" which is a tad different to "home office source".
Normal depressing journalism allowing the politician to make a claim but have a cutout in place in case they get shown to be lying. As in this case.
Its being quoted as
I guess it differs according to what article you read. I have read two articles which claimed that a Home Office source had told Sky News.
he was just wearing that shirt because it was convenient at the time.
I took that as meaning that all his other tee shirts were in the wash.
Luckily I never get to a situation where the only clean tee shirts I have left available are neo-nazi ones.
That requires some advance planning mind.
I like to dress up my collection of ‘gollies’ in far right t-shirts
Doesn’t everyone?
Who wouldn’t want to clearly signal
their agreement with totally rational, considered and measured opinions such as this?
https://twitter.com/goldingbf/status/1645804265984888835?s=46&t=1lK7Dw1b6RqGJyvufO-trQ
What have I woken up to here!?
The Home Secretary's husband has a far right t-shirt? As in "I'm not racist, my husband is Jewish" Braverman has racist supporting clothing in the house?
No, the pub landlady's husband. But he only wore it because his robes (sorry, other T-shirts) were in the wash.
You know, the ones that Braverman was reportedly annoyed about the police getting involved in because they shouldn't waste time on minor stuff. According to 'a home office source' or 'a source close to SB' depending what version you read.
I guess all depends on whether golly lynching and bantz about it on twitter are just minor stuff to you.
It’s the pub landlord claiming that he’s not racist who’s wearing the Britain First T-Shirt. Because don’t we all have t-shirts bearing far right slogans?
Looks like the Tories have got their real brain boxes in the press banging on about the small boats again, coincidentally on the same day the Britain First leader is accusing the RNLI of being people traffickers
https://twitter.com/isabeloakeshott/status/1645737195167252480?s=46&t=1lK7Dw1b6RqGJyvufO-trQ
https://twitter.com/nigel_farage/status/1645883874147201025?s=46&t=1lK7Dw1b6RqGJyvufO-trQ
If you were being cynical you could suspect that a similar approach to Brexit was being taken here. Where useful, non-official sources are used as outriders to throw extreme views and scaremongering out there, shifting the argument to the right, then these views are then echoed, slightly toned down, by the government.
I expect Suella will be announcing wave machines in the channel, Royal Navy submarines torpedoing migrant boats or landmines on the beaches by this afternoon, saying it’s needed to ‘combat terrorism’
Has some new data come to light, which is prompting all these claims? No sources seem to be immediately evident...
I don't think there's any new 'information'. Its just more of this, ahead of the local elections...
Its literally all they've got left.
Suella has been surprisingly quiet for a few days now, but I'm sure that now her outriders have put this out there, she'll be happy to pop up with some 'solutions' to the completely fabricated issue any moment now
That pub landlady has now replace the golliwogs display.
No sources seem to be immediately evident…
Unnamed "sources" have told the Daily Mail that 19 suspected terrorists have entered Britain posing as small boat migrants, do you need more than that?
Has some new data come to light, which is prompting all these claims?
Yes. They have noticed the local elections getting a day closer plus there are various mutterings that some tory mps will push back against Bravermans "small boats" bill.
That pub landlady has now replace the golliwogs display.
and put a sign up saying (paraphrasing) 'we have a display of gollies* behind our bar, so unless that appeals to you prepare to be offended'
So that's all OK now.
* pub landlady has caved in and won't say wog any longer because some people find it offensive, even though she doesn't. That's nice of her
Looks like the Tories have got their real brain boxes in the press banging on about the small boats again, coincidentally on the same day the Britain First leader is accusing the RNLI of being people traffickers
Made a donation yesterday, purely a coincidence, just saw them at work over the weekend and it nudged me.
Tory peer accuses Suella Braverman of ‘racist rhetoric’ over grooming gangs
Lady Warsi criticises home secretary after comments singling out British-****stani men in child abuse cases
As a reaction to Lady Warsi's (entirely reasonable) comments about Suella Braverman, racist bawsack Tommy Robinson has had his minions put up a typically vile video* of him ranting about Lady Warsi and singing the praises of our home secretary and her recent words and proposed policies
So there you have it... Cruella has the ringing endorsement of a thug like Mr Yaxley-Lennon and his knuckle-dragging followers, which surely shows you exactly the company our present Home Secretary is keeping and who she's courting. Not so much a dog whistle to the far right as a foghorn
* which I won't link to, obviously
Baroness Warsi is fantastic when criticising the Tories.
Apparently very down to earth in real life - MCJnr had to mike her up for a speech at uni and he wasn't sure about the whole touching an older woman of South Asian origin. She apparently just held her jacket open and told him to get his hand in.
I don't understand why Warsi can stay in the tory party. She has called them out for Isamophobia and racism.
Shes been calling them out and saying islamophobia in the party needs to be investigated since 2018
Yup - which is why I cannot fathom why Warsi is still in the tory party
anyway - a bunch of tories are sticking the boot in to Braverman over being a racist
I don’t understand why Warsi can stay in the tory party.
Because her right-wing veiws fit in nicely with Tory Party idealogy. And she is happy to be compared with Thatcher. If she is defensive of Muslims it is because she is herself a Muslim.
I didn't read Warsi's Guardian article.
Nudged over here from another thread, maybe someone can help me out on this one.
I realise the tories are about division and distraction these days and individuals like SB are probably most concerned with clinging to their own power liferaft in the tory sea of ****. And I realise that there's racism and classism etc in all societies.
But the racist lines from someone of her influence who's of ethnic minority in the UK with immigrant parents is what I don't understand.
Let's say she and other tories carry on down this line. The thugs like Robinson and Britain First are empowered by it. If English nationalism plays out further, what happens to 'people like her' in the thug's eyes, or her parents? English nationalism isn't going to have an effective pass list for those of ethnic minority who helped them out. How does she feel about the people from similar backgrounds as hers of many ethnicities who will be (or are) the victims of these thugs?
Maybe I'm naive here but is she so callous and power-hungry to be able to ignore where the path they're on leads for short-term power and ego? That's the only answer I can come up with.
Maybe it's a case of telling themselves the right thing is being done and the wrong things that happen aren't connected, not their fault. I don't believe they don't see the links though.
(this may have been done a few pages earlier, sorry if it's repetition - tbh I despise what this lot stand for to the point where I don't read about them much. 'I see you..')
How does she feel about the people from similar backgrounds as hers
Her background is middle class, educated and definitely not one of those naughty Muslims, if you’re one of her kind fine otherwise tough titties.
More English than the English is not an uncommon trait in various strands across minorities.
I think she is actually a racist. It also is her positioning herself for a run at tory leader after the next election by pandering to the racism of the tory party membership
brown on brown racism is a thing. Ethnic minorities can be racist
Maybe I’m naive here but is she so callous and power-hungry to be able to ignore where the path they’re on leads for short-term power and ego
This, it isn't really about stopping the small boats it's about rallying a bunch of disillusioned people to a "cause" so they vote for someone who will solve "the problem" and so keep her in a job or the party in power to better feed her ego and account.
Watch her narrative switch to either full blown burn the boats to, who will help these poor people. When she is no longer in a party in power.
(Edit: I agree with tj she probably is racist.)
Ethnic minorities can be racist
Her background is middle class, educated and definitely not one of those naughty Muslims, if you’re one of her kind fine otherwise tough titties.
On both points, sure - but to the English nationalist thugs who hear the dog whistles none of that matters. Surely Braverman and Sunak will have experienced racism as will their families. It's the lack of empathy that I struggle with. Then again it seems a prerequisite of tory membership so perhaps that answers my own Q. They only empathise with class and seem to think absolutely everyone can work hard enough to be better.
Surely Braverman and Sunak will have experienced racism as will their families
At their level of privilege it will have been much less than if you are poorer.
Lack of empathy is required to be a tory.
It’s the lack of empathy that I struggle with.
Some people always need somebody else to look down on.
At their level of privilege it will have been much less than if you are poorer.
Maybe, though I've had conversations that told me class and education doesn't insulate anyone from this. Not that I know any barristers or millionaire hedge funders though. I don't know - I would be pleasantly suprised to know neither of them had experienced racism (though that would hinge on being able to believe what they say)
It also is her positioning herself for a run at tory leader after the next election by pandering to the racism of the tory party membership
Very much this. Its no secret that she's got a Liz Truss level of both ambition and ability, ie lots and none.
The Tory's know that the next election is as good as lost already. When they lose Sunak is toast. The general consensus is that the conclusion they'll draw is that they lost because they weren't right wing enough. Thus, as the far right darling of the ERG she'll be a shoe in to take over. Why she'd want too is anyones guess, but like Boris, then Liz, then Sunak, I doubt she's thought that far ahead. She just wants the top job, as like them she no doubt regards it as her entitlement
Oh I am sure they will have experienced racism - its just wealth insulates you.
No standing at bus stops or being on the bus and living in affluent areas, etc etc so there are less opportunities to be on the receiving end of it.
As for the racist element, as Lady Warsi pointed out; its not something exclusive to white people.
Its a very dangerous game she's playing by courting far right thugs. They would love to get rid of all the men of ****stani Muslim heritage, but you'd have to be hopelessly naive to think they'd stop there
She's obviously not taken on the old adage "first they came for the...."
“first they came for the….”
Exactly. I wasn't going to say it, godwin's etc, but yeah.
But the racist lines from someone of her influence who’s of ethnic minority in the UK with immigrant parents is what I don’t understand.
Most small boat arrivals, for example, are not of Indian heritage. There really is no particular reason why Rishi Sunak, Priti Patel, and Suella Braverman, all of Indian heritage, should feel a particularly strong affinity towards them.
Indeed as Rishi Sunak, Priti Patel, and Suella Braverman, are all of East African Indian heritage there is reason to believe that there may exist some racial animosity.
People of Indian heritage in East Africa were very much seen as privileged stooges of British imperialism, when independence came they often became the victims of extreme hostility, including mass expulsions.
Rishi Sunak, Priti Patel, and Suella Braverman, all share privileged lifestyles, the fact that their ancestors might have suffered discrimination at the hands of white Europeans does not guarantee that they themselves cannot be guilty of prejudice and bigotry towards others.
Just look at the role of Afrikaners in Apartheid South Africa or Jewish settlers in occupied territories for similar examples.
People of Indian heritage in East Africa were very much seen as privileged stooges of British imperialism, when independence came they often became the victims of extreme hostility, including mass expulsions.
I don't know about the others, but that was certainly how Priti Patels parents ended up in the UK, which makes her attitude particularly brutal and stone-hearted. She's not just the child of immigrants (like a lot of us) but of refugees escaping persecution
binners
Full MemberIts a very dangerous game she’s playing by courting far right thugs. They would love to get rid of all the men of ****stani Muslim heritage, but you’d have to be hopelessly naive to think they’d stop there
Dangerous but endlessly appealing. It's the same thing as some jewish people thinking that anti-arab racists are allies, rather than just racists who're temporarily pointed at someone else. Or women, the daily mail and trans rights. You might think you can use just that little bit of hatred and fear to your own benefit but all you're really doing is growing it and legitimising it.
Somewhat unironically, racists exist in all walks of life and races.
Sad but true.
"People of Indian heritage in East Africa were very much seen as privileged stooges of British imperialism, when independence came they often became the victims of extreme hostility, including mass expulsions."
There was an excellent BBC4 documentary a while back where a young girl whose parents had been refugees from Uganda interviewed people from that generation who had settled here.
The first 3/4 of the programme mapped their progress since their arrival. In the final part she asked them how they had treated the locals when they were in Uganda. There was a lot of looking at the floor...
Rishis' story is quite different, British passports were offered to Indian Kenyans, thinking a similar situation to that which was occurring in Uganda could occur in Kenya. In the end that didn't happen and the Indian Kenyans were recognised an official Kenyan tribe.
That's the lottery of colonialism for you and it worked out pretty well for Rishi and his family, right of abode on several different continents coupled with the fact that upon independence, 75% of the non agricultural wealth was in the hands of Indian Kenyans despite them only making up only 2% of the population.
You'd have thunk that Pritti, Suella and Rishi would have shown some sensitivity towards this rather sensitive history? Yet they choose to double down on the racism.
And the recent attack on Muslims is much more dangerous than many people realise. I wonder how many of those British Indians who celebrated Sunaks' ascension expected him to exacerbate the tensions between the hindu and muslim communities?
@inkster I have looked on aghast as the Muslims have been demonised. It offends my live and let live British upbringing (well except for the Norfolk Types 😆 ). We don't need the sectarian problems of India in our back yard.
"We don’t need the sectarian problems of India in our back yard"
I'm afraid they're already here.
Last year there was some serious unrest in Leicester in relation to events in India. The Indian ambassador to the UK threw flames on the fire, publicly placing all the blame on the Muslim community. Our government said nothing.
It's worth remembering that the last time Prime Minister Modi visited the UK he had to quickly jump on a plane home before conducting the meetings he had scheduled. He was concerned that he was about to be arrested for genocide, he had just been banned from entering the United States and was worried that a European arrest warrant was about to be issued.
A decade ago when he was governor of Gujarat, he initiated a three day pogrom against Gujurati Muslims, where his religious militia kiled hundreds of muslims with the assistanceof of the police. Lovely chap and good mates with Putin.
We've seen Baroness Warsi call out her own party and Sajid Javed has been marginalised (probably because he was one of the few Tories to criticise the culture war nonsense.) I'm guessing the Conservative Party has concluded they don't need the Muslim vote,
The Tory’s know that the next election is as good as lost already
I wish I shared your conviction.
Photo of Suella Braverman in this BBC article was well timed 👌
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-65297070
A truly brilliant article here :
For entertainment value obviously.
It turns out that Suella Braverman is a victim of bigotry and racism from the Left, the Guardian, Tory "wets", and apparently, bizarrely, Lenny Henry.
You don't get much better than that.
LOL Dan Wootton the "acceptable" face of white supremacy. Funny he doesn't follow his own advice when it comes to Meghan Windsor
I grew up in Grays. It was a crappy place to grow up. Was a crappy place to live. Kept away from most of the pubs, preferred the snooker hall.
My uncle still lives there. Big house. Broken into five, maybe six times over the years. Not nice.
Would never move back there.
However, I'm glad someone made a point of smashing that pub.
Grays, as with most towns along the estuary, has seen(/always has had) a large influx of people coming from east London. That's ultimately why my old man and uncle lived there.
Now a lot of those leaving London are black and lots of them have settled in Grays.
Glad that someone is sticking it to the racists.
A truly brilliant article here
Fair play to them. They got ‘woke agenda’ into the first sentence. 😂
https://twitter.com/william_wragg/status/1649571213801398272?s=21
https://twitter.com/william_wragg/status/1649577608756207616?s=21
https://twitter.com/william_wragg/status/1649580988635271175?s=21
https://twitter.com/william_wragg/status/1649581983700320258?s=21
Another blow to the labour shortage by Cruella, that’s bound to be a huge help to the UK economy where the latest figures for unfilled positions is 1.2 million…
https://twitter.com/suellabraverman/status/1650573225703665664?s=46&t=1lK7Dw1b6RqGJyvufO-trQ
From Yorkshire Bylines. We knew that Braverman was sharing her confidential brief with a degenerate Tory dinosaur, but the links to Christian Nationalist money from the US (and possibly other origins too) come as no surprise.
but the links to Christian Nationalist money from the US (and possibly other origins too) come as no surprise.
Personally, I prefer to call them Nationalist Christians, or Nat-C’s, they even have their own flag:
Or there’s this one - can’t make up my mind which one works better…
…or worse, depending on one’s point of view, of course. I’m wondering how long it is before these, actual Nazi Christian flags get adopted by Americans finally showing their true colours, as it were.
This comment in that link is very misleading:
Despite Suella Braverman’s devotion to the Triratna Order, a controversial religious sect founded by a sexual predator
It is not a controversial religious sect, it is a Buddhist order and its founder was the Buddha. Yes Dennis Lingwood was by all accounts something of a sexual predator, who should have faced justice, but that doesn't have any bearing on the current members of the order.
Last week it was reported that the Dalai Lama behaved in a thoroughly unacceptable way, it might have changed my perception of the Dalai Lama but it certainly hasn't changed my perception of Tibetan Buddhists.
I know members of the Triratna Order very well because although I am not in any way a Buddhist the local Triratna Buddhist Centre is in walking distance from me and I usually attend yoga and meditation there on a weekly basis.
I don't get involved in any overtly religious stuff but I obviously get some of the flavour of Buddhism from attending led meditation in the shrine room. I have got to know them well and have done voluntary building work for them (which involved working, eating, etc as part of their community).
They are thoroughly decent people and how Suella Braverman is a member is a complete mystery to me. She seems to represent the very antithesis of what they stand for........metta bhavana/loving-kindness? FFS
This comment in that link is very misleading:
...a controversial religious sect founded by a sexual predator
Yes Dennis Lingwood was by all accounts something of a sexual predator
So what did I miss?
And what about the rest of the piece?
So what did I miss?
I thought my comment was pretty self-explanatory. The Triratna Order is a fairly standard Buddhist organisation which follows the teachings of Buddha, there is nothing controversial about it unless you believe that Buddhism is controversial. And I would not describe it as a sect.
I fully accept there is evidence that Dennis Lingwood did not totally follow the Buddhist teachings which he was so responsible for disseminating, but I don't accept that this necessarily is a reflection on current practicing Buddhists.
Are there any Triratna Buddhists that defend the sexual behaviour of Dennis Lingwood? I doubt it.
I think therefore that the comment in the link is misleading because imo it paints a misleading picture of Triratna Buddhists. They are not a weird sect of sex perverts imo, they are fairly mainstream Buddhists.
I didn't bother reading much beyond that comment. I know nothing about Christian Nationalists in the USA and everything they say about them might well be true.
HTH