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”it’s like the Gaggia espresso machine calling then Dualit toaster stainless steel”?
OK - we have now reached peak middle class woke acceptability. Everything from here on is downhill 🙂
Oh dear, is it any wonder Reform is on the rise.
Does this mean any phrase or saying which includes reference to the colour black or brown is now off limits, I assume the same applies to white and yellow?
There's plenty of overt inequality, victimisation and bigotry out there and on here without having to go looking for it.
I'm off to ride my bike, suggest some of you do the same.
Of course it bloody is! You’re accusing me of being a racist, which I take massive offence at!
Get over yourself, FFS. You're just being asked to think about not using a particular phrase. No need to get all Daily Mail about it.
Anyway, back on track,
Nice try.
doesn’t recent polling put Pritti ahead amongst party members, so we’re likely to see her as leader?
I don’t think they’ve even decided what the rules will be yet. So we don’t know if her name will ever go in front of the members.
tjagain
Full Member
I think you mean sexist not sexiest 🙂
I think they were right first time 😉
Does this mean any phrase or saying which includes reference to the colour black or brown is now off limits, I assume the same applies to white and yellow?
No, that would be a flamboyant Faragesque emotive over-reaction. People can say what they want - all that's happening here is people are being asked to be mindful of others.
Oh dear, is it any wonder Reform is on the rise.
The ONLY reason this has caused such a fuss is because of binners reaction, there is no other reason.
Bill seemed to have interpreted binners comment as a little joke about both women being black, kryton tactfully suggested that it was probably not the best phrase to use, and predictably binners erupted into a mega strop because, despite dishing it out on a daily basis, he personally is hypersensitive.
Edit: Binners reaction could have been "oh yeah, hadn't thought of that - good point !" And that would have been the end of it.
Is that TJ ? ^
Amazing what a haircut can do, has taken 30 years off him.
Anyway, back on track, doesn’t recent polling put Pritti ahead amongst party members, so we’re likely to see her as leader?
The stuff that I've seen has Badenoch easily in the lead, Jenrick and Patel joint second.
Choice of language is very important - whether sentiment is right or not the way things are said can escalate or de-escalate while saying 'the same thing'.
Some of the other posters might also think on that.
This thread is crazy.
I have never heard so much nonsense - white, middle class IT managers, complaining that an ancient expression could potentially be offensive, to someone somewhere.
I do wonder what many posters on here would think about themselves if they could read their content through someone else's eyes?
For the record, I think Binners over reacted but also that plenty of the responses were just they type of thing that 'proves' the anti woke idiots are correct (in their own head), which does no one any favours.
Just had a read of the last couple of pages.... what a load of nonsense. Do so many of you go through life debating this kind of thing.
Is that TJ ? ^
That was exactly the picture I had in my head too. Makes you think ™
I have never heard so much nonsense – white, middle class IT managers, complaining that an ancient expression could potentially be offensive, to someone somewhere.
This. Many on here have never been the subject of racism - I have, through school and the work place. Only the other day one of the juniors described our ERP system as having a bit of a paddy.
I do wonder what many posters on here would think about themselves if they could read their content through someone else’s eyes?
I'd probably think I was a massive throbber. But to be fair I think that already.
Many on here have never been the subject of racism – I have, through school and the work place. Only the other day one of the juniors described our ERP system as having a bit of a paddy.
Is there a reliable source to show that "paddy" in the sense you mean it is derived from the nickname for Irish people? Reliable meaning a rigorous etymology rather than some toss on the Internet.
Just catching up on what I've missed over the last 24 hours and I'm now in a state of anxiety!
Please, please, please can somebody educate me with an acceptable replacement for "THAT" phrase which I have been ignorantly using all my life?
I’m offended by proxy.
*Actually I’m not. Two pages FFS!
Jeezus, is this still rattling along?.... "political thread comes to a standstill because binners is massively offended shocker"
Let's get back to ridiculing Suella Braverman, led by binners of course.
What's the latest daft thing she's said?
“political thread comes to a standstill because binners is massively offended shocker”
To a limited extent, to greater extent by the self righteous pile on from a range of posters desperate to have a go at Binners because he wouldn't cave in the left wing on here during the election period.
Tolerance goes both ways, there are so many groups in our society that can potentially take offence at someone else's use of language it's impossible to avoid theoretically offending someone (which is what has supposedly happened here). Maybe we just take what people say at face value for now and stop looking for offence where there is none intended.
This thread is a good STW example of one of the far rights recruitment tactics.
Please, please, please can somebody educate me with an acceptable replacement for “THAT” phrase which I have been ignorantly using all my life?
He could have said "...which was a bit rich..." In the context of one RW Tory apparently labeling another as "mental".
But hey it looks like 2 pages of thread derailment were the preferred route TBH.
Back on topic (sort of) I can actually see Cruella jumping to Reform, she's ridden the hard-right Tory bandwagon in parliament longer then most of her peers, many of whom are now off making their fortunes with think-tanks and RW media trying to Sculpt the narrative and line their pockets for the next decade. It's worth remembering Reform is still more of a business with a political wing than an actual party, she doesn't have to be in power to wield (and sell) influence over the headbangers, but the opportunity to do so is a time sensitive one...
A jump of party gets her back in the headlines again, and so long as she doesn't outshine Nigel she gets to play as a bigger fish in a smaller pond. There's every chance the Tories will at some point in the next 5 years start trying to appear sane and moderate, at which time Cruella will find herself increasingly gagged. Reform on the other hand welcome poorly considered bigoted statements that get their members in the press... It's kind of her natural home now.
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/will-suella-braverman-join-reform-defection-379368/
The whispers have been doing the rounds over the last 48 hours, after internal party polling show just how unpopular Suella finds herself amongst her colleagues. It’s understood that she would struggle to rally enough support to even get onto the leadership ballot.
Throwing a “paddy”, it’s completely obvious where that comes from.
The English have a bit of history of stereotyping the Irish.
The Scots too. Probably worse per capita in Scotland, actually, considering the strength of the Orange Lodge and religiously segregated schooling there.
Braverman has no chance of becoming leader. It was always a long shot, but of the remaining Tory MPs, enough are moderate enough to not want her.
I think pushing for a bye-election if she defects is pretty hard though. No precedent for it as far as I'm aware? Probably be a good coup initially for Reform, but she'll just be yet another toxic MP more interested in GB news and popular conservative style grifting side gigs.
I think pushing for a bye-election if she defects is pretty hard though. No precedent for it as far as I’m aware?
Oh there are definitely precedents, but from politicians with some integrity, so that probably rules Braverman out.
It is important to pressurise her to face a by-election though as her inevitable refusal will simply further discredit her
If she does join reform how will that sit with the racist ethos of the party? Farage is an unrepentant if hidden racist. Many of its candidates were openly racist, much of its voter base is racist.
I cannot see it actually working even tho Braverman is also clearly racist
As for a byelection? Not a chance. Plenty of precedent for not having one and no way to force one
I’ve just had a look and my fiver bet on Braverman as next Tory leader has a cash out of 73p, which I think I’ll take
According to the bookies, Badanoch has been a shoe in at 2/1for about a year now. But then Sunak was the same and I stuck a fiver on Truss at 9/1 and that paid out nicely
Remember that the final decision doesn’t lie with the MPs, it lies with the racist pensioners of Eastbourne and they’re all quite… well… racist
I can see it ending up being Jenrick because, when push comes to shove, they’ll opt for the chinless, pin-striped, middle-aged white bloke every time
I think pushing for a bye-election if she defects is pretty hard though. No precedent for it as far as I’m aware?
There is no mechanism for pushing for a byelection if someone switches party.
Douglas Carswell and Mark Reckless both did choose to trigger a byelection when they defected from the tories to UKIP.
They were unusual in doing so though.
No chance of a by-election... we've had MPs sitting as independents or in different parties to the one they were elected under as a matter of course for a while now. She can always wait for a crunch moment where the Conservative party message can be said to have moved since the election, and then claim that her defection or resignation from the party is because it is the party that is not respecting the wishes of her voters, rather than her.
Remember that the final decision doesn’t lie with the MPs, it lies with the racist pensioners of Eastbourne and they’re all quite… well… racist
Only if it is contested - thats how Sunak got it - a coronation not a contest
It will be Mordunt or Tugenat
Unlikely to be Mordaunt now!
Tugendhat if they are smart, and I think he is emerging as the favourite
If she does join reform how will that sit with the racist ethos of the party? Farage is an unrepentant if hidden racist.
Their racism is fairly flexible when there's a benefit to the party, sorry I mean business.
https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd11xxn833yo.amp
Only if it is contested – thats how Sunak got it – a coronation not a contest
But that’s under the current process. MPs whittle it down (to 2?) then party members vote.
I think the 1922 cttee can propose/set up a revised format. Some of the criticism of the current system is that an MP popular with members could get voted out by MPs before it gets to the member vote. That may be a good thing, tho, given “ racist pensioners of Eastbourne ”.
white, middle class IT managers, complaining that an ancient expression could potentially be offensive, to someone somewhere.
id just like to point out I’m a white working class sales manager with a black wife and mixed race children if it makes you feel less outraged.
And yes, I’ve experienced racism being thrown at her, my kids and me for me being with them, so have some experience to speak from.
As you were.
I'm really missing the like button on this thread.
Only if it is contested – thats how Sunak got it – a coronation not a contest
And that worked out well for them. Does the present Tory party look like it’s in the mood for a coronation? I’m going to go for the opposite of a coronation…
Rats in a sack
If its a contest that goers to the membership it will go to the whitest person in the contest no matter how useless- Like how Truss got the leadership rather than Sunak.
The pot calling the kettle black - dates from a 1620 translation of Don Quixote and became common in the mid 1720s. There is no racist intent in the phrase. To claim there is I think is a sad reflection of our internet society, of looking for offence and to be offended, argument ensues usually filled by such terms as woke and snowflake etc.
If its a contest that goers to the membership it will go to the whitest person in the contest no matter how useless- Like how Truss got the leadership rather than Sunak.
I think that's a bit one-dimensional and short sighted. The "racist pensioners of Eastbourne" that vote for Tory leaders are the same ones that selected Badenoch, Patel, Sunak, Braverman etc to be candidates in their home constituencies, despite most of those places not being very diverse.
Richmond (Yorks) is 98% white. If I'm reading the figures properly and he lives in the town itself, then the Sunak nuclear family is 10% of the entire town's Asian population and 66% of its Hindu population! Point being If the Tory constituency membership were so unabashedly racist, they wouldn't have selected Sunak at all.
https://citypopulation.de/en/uk/yorkshireandthehumber/north_yorkshire/E63000382__richmond/
PCA - I correctly predicted Truss would get it over Sunak purely based on the racism that is a thread thru the membership. I still say the same. If there is a white and a non white candidate goes to the membership then it will be the white person.
There is no racist intent in the phrase. To claim there is I think is a sad reflection of our internet society, of looking for offence and to be offended,
Good job Kryton did not say that then
That’s a potentially insensitive choice of phrase, that we could do without.
Now drop it please chaps. Kryton is one of the few on here with real experience of this.
There is no racist intent in the phrase. To claim there is I think is a sad reflection of our internet society.
You should read back properly. No one including me claimed the sentence or Binners was racist. I pointed out that it could be insensitive in the context - comparing two people of colour. Yes, maybe we live in hypersentive times, but we also live in times where we can be and should be empathetic and considerate with our fellows regardless of their ethnicity, colour, gender etc.
It should be obvious to you that recent history has been atrociously opposite, therefore I don’t believe people who have achieved rightful equality after decades (if not centuries) of struggle should easily defer to ignorance, especially where that can then be subject to correction or education.
If there is a white and a non white candidate goes to the membership then it will be the white person
Why does that only apply to the leadership selection and not selection at constituency level, then? Presumably all the BAME MPs in the Tory Party would have had plenty of white opponents for selection - and yet they won.
"presumably" I have no idea actually - do you? maybe the racists are in pockets, maybe they are mainly single candidates, We do not know
What we do know is when the leadership was put to the membership they chose a clearly incompetent white woman over a plausibly competent brown man. Its not a stretch to attribute than to racism
Suella is worried the tories will become 'centralist cranks'.
At she has found a common cause with some on here ???
Centralists are why we can't have nice things.
EDIT - the random question marks were smiley faces when I typed the post...
TJ, (and other haters of the racist pensioners of Eastbourne)
You do realise that Badenock was the most popular candidate amongst the members but was prevented from being in the final two offered up to the membership via the initial selection process?
As usual, you're not even wrong.
A lot of the lefties on here need to take a good look at themselves
So the polls said - but would they have actually voted for her when push comes to shove? Personally I doubt it
Thats the process - the MPs select two to go to the membership and they knew she was too batshit to make a decent leader. Or was that racism amongst the MPs?
Braverman is the stand in host on LBC on Wednesday (or Tuesday - can't remember) for James O'Brien. Should be interesting!
Chosen subjects for discussion: firing immigrants into the sun… yes or no?
Correct we didn't get a choice.
“presumably” I have no idea actually – do you?
From memory Sunak had no opposition when piloted in to Richmond? Don’t think the locals had a choice?
Businessman Rishi Sunak has been selected as the Conservative candidate to vie for William Hague's North Yorkshire seat at the general election...Around 200 party supporters chose Mr Sunak from a shortlist of four at a meeting in the constituency earlier.
www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-29674728.amp
As an aside, apparently the voters of Eastbourne are so elderly, racist and bigoted that they recently elected...a 31 year old gay, black British man to represent them in Parliament, while the combined Tory/Reform vote dropped by 10%! Stereotypes, eh, who'd have em?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastbourne_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
the present Tory party look like it’s in the mood for a coronation
if the current parliament is 5 years, that’s 260 weeks. With 120 MPs, why don’t they let them all have a fortnight each?
You joke, but given their recent track record of changing leaders while in government, whoever gets to inherit the poisoned chalice from Rishi in opposition is probably on borrowed time from day one. They could potentially get through a good few leaders before the next election
My money is on Tugendhat or Mordunt
You joke, but given their recent track record of changing leaders while in government, whoever gets to inherit the poisoned chalice from Rishi in opposition is probably on borrowed time from day one. They could potentially get through a good few leaders before the next election
They should just draw straws once a month, would save a lot of time and effort! 😀
My money is on Tugendhat or Mordunt
Unless there’s a by-election asap, Mordaunt hasn’t much chance.
My money is on Tugendhat or Mordunt
Mordaunt lost her seat so either she would need to be ennobled or one of the current survivors would need to be persuaded to resign. So I would suggest you dont put your money on her.
Sunak lives some distance from Richmond, he was opposed when dropped in mainly by a Local Councillor who eventually ran as an independent. There was significant racism locally, some was very unpleasant.
Locally for a rural area there is a wide range of folks including Gurkhas and others from Catterick Garrison.
Tangent alert, bag to the pot/kettle.
had a ponder on the dog walk about this. I was initially of the view that it just refers to the sootyness/ material of the cooking implements. I also spoke to my brother in law (Spanish) who studied Cervantes as part of his degree.
The actual phrase is not quite pot/ kettle more pan/ saucepan and a reference to “black eyes”.
Although it doesn’t appear to be rascist, given the Spanish try to wipe the memory of the Moorish control (from the Inquisition onwards) could there be a reason that colour was chosen over any other. Could just as well say “the sky calling the sea blue”?
is it more than a coincidence that unfavourable connotations are afforded to black- black sheep of the family, black dog, blackballing?
My money is on Tugendhat or Mordunt
One isn’t an MP any more. The other is far too sane to be elected by the present bunch of headbangers that make up the Tory party.
Of course, they’ll elect an absolute nutter, the question is which one. The party has already reached the conclusion that they lost because they weren’t right wing enough. Tugendhat has no chance!
I expect the first round to involve pretty much every Tory MP that’s left, including Cruella
It’s almost a shame that Liz Truss lost her seat as she’d make the perfect Leader of the Opposition.
I reckon that they'll do similar to last time, make the required number of supporters high enough to rule out the majority, ie Cruella. (Badenoch isn't that popular either). Agreed with you though Binners that it's an absolute poison chalice, hence Hunt ruling himself out. I can't see the next leader still being in place for the next GE. Certainly can't see the next leader as PM. Jenrick or Badenoch for me, maybe Tugdenhat.
I think a better question might be - 'who will be the next conservative prime minister?'
I mean, there will be one. But it won't, i'm pretty confident, be any of the current leadership potentials. And realistically i think itll have to be someone who isn't tainted by the brexit/culture war/austerity pong. So they might not even be an mp yet.
I'm not quite that hopeful @kormoran!
Hunt? I'm not sure who the 'bright new things are'. Laura Trott? Yeah I doubt it'll be her.
Mordaunt lost her seat so either she would need to be ennobled or one of the current survivors would need to be persuaded to resign.
I think they would do that to get her in. I mean she does have good hair and can hold a sword
I don't think they will go for one of the zoomers. They get a lot of air time but I think the daftest elements in the party are no longer so represented as MPs and as the MPs select who goes to the membership I think they will nobble the nutters before it gets to the membership
Well Victoria Atkinson is apparently being touted. Yes, really. A woman who, when doing the morning media round, looks like she’s been out clubbing all night and pushed on through
Am I right in thinking it went Hague, IDS and then Howard prior to Cameron?
I can't remember if any of those 3 were considered 'serious' offers to the voting public. Obviously we can rule out IDS as serious, but the other two?
I suppose in the face of Blair and new labour they were futile gestures, especially at the end of 18 yes 18 years of conservative horror. There was no way the electorate was going back to that.