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BBC now reporting that Margaret Thatcher's re-animated corpse was seen speaking to Graham Brady of the 1922 committee.
Strong and Stable. From today's FT...
Home secretary
2010-2016 — Theresa May
2016-2018 — Amber Rudd
2018-2019 — Sajid Javid
2019-2022 — Priti Patel
Sept 6 2022 — Oct 19 2022 — Suella Braverman
Oct 19 2022 — Oct 25 2022 — Grant Shapps
Oct 25 2022 — November 13 2023 — Suella Braverman
November 13 2023 — James Cleverly
Foreign secretary
2014-2016 — Philip Hammond
2016-2018 — Boris Johnson
2018-2019 — Jeremy Hunt
2019-2021 — Dominic Raab
2021-2022 — Liz Truss
Sept 2022 — Nov 2023 — James Cleverly
November 13 2023 — David Cameron
Chancellor
2010-2016 — George Osborne
2016-2019 — Philip Hammond
2019-2020 — Sajid Javid
2020-2022 — Rishi Sunak
July 2022 — Sept 2022 — Nadhim Zahawi
Sept 2022 — Oct 2022 — Kwasi Kwarteng
Oct 2022 — Jeremy Hunt
Cameron as foreign sec is just absurd tho but he maybe will be able to be vaguely sensible in negotiations with the EU
surely more to do with having an experienced senior politician with at least some respect from other countries in the post in the midst of: Ukraine, Russia, Israel and Palestine etc? But perhaps also an olive branch to the less extreme parts of the party who might just be who keep the nutters under control.
He was directly responsible for Brexit in the first place and then the protracted and largely bitter negotiations with the EU (in which they walked all over us).
Directly responsible might be going too far! He made a massive miscalculation but the outcome he expected was the opposite one and supposed to put the issue to bed for a generation. He hadn’t realised just how gullable a third of the electorate were. It’s obvious to us now - but bear in mind at that point nobody had made Borris PM!
not sure how you can blame him for the eu negotiations - he quit as soon as the shit hit the fan. The issue was the muppets who succeeded him pursuing some idealistic dream brexit rather than seeking compromises. I don’t think the EU walked all over us - they acted exactly like he and every remainer predicted because to believe otherwise means you have a massively misplaced understanding of the power balance.
I don’t think the EU walked all over us – they acted exactly like he and every remainer predicted because to believe otherwise means you have a massively misplaced understanding of the power balance.
This. And there was also a misunderstanding that the EU is a rules-based organisation, that the rules you'll accept will dictate the access you get, and that it wasn't going to make exceptions for a (frequently awkward) member who had just flounced out.
BBC now reporting that Margaret Thatcher’s re-animated corpse was seen speaking to Graham Brady of the 1922 committee.
If I were in any way talented with graphics I would make a picture of Thatcher's corpse as the God Emperor of Mankind sitting upon the Golden Throne maintaining the Good Friday agreement with the last remnants of her Psyker powers.
Sorry, Warhammer 40K references. But it feels like the day for it.
So everyone who voted remain thinks he’s a * for obvious reasons and everyone who voted to leave also think he’s a * because he was one of the ‘liberal elite’ who sabotaged their glorious Brexit?
Righto!
They've accepted the Red Wall has gone. Now they are just trying to maintain the Blue Wall which I think this appointment is for. Although they might find Cameron isn't as popular in those Blue Wall seats as he used to be.
Having attended the march on Saturday, it is a small relief to see Braverman sacked today. The main march was incredible for many reasons, no least it's sheer size, which shows the level of support for Gazans and the level of opposition to not only the actions of the Israeli regime, but also our government. Regardless of what the British press might say, the overwhelming global narrative is one of a peaceful and respectful march, in direct contrast to the shameful scenes involving the far right thugs whipped into hatred by the (former) Home Secretary. One thing that was very noticeable was just how little police involvement there was on the main march; there was clearly no desire from them to provoke the crowd in any way, as has been seen on countless other demos in central London. There were a few young idiots letting off fireworks later on, but they were not representative of the majority. Neither were antisemitic posters and banners that were reported; I personally didn't see anything like that, but I'm not claiming they didn't exist. I did encounter one 'freelance journalist' who was seen photographing/filming banners and placards that could possibly be misrepresented as being anti-Israel, and when confronted, he tried denying this, but it was pretty obvious. As were the police 'spotters', but they're always at demos. By far the most offensive thing I witnessed was a group of far-right thugs outside a pub in Victoria, shouting racist abuse and slogans. I would question the decision to allow them to gather at that particular place, given that the police had instructed various groups to avoid any areas the march was going through. But they were largely ignored and people just walked right past them. There were many, many families with young children on the march, and the demographic was very diverse indeed. I felt it was a very positive effort, and one which will hopefully send a strong message to the rest of the World. Once again, London stood up to denounce oppression and violence against innocents. I'm so pleased so see so many people from the rest of the UK attending too; if we take the official police (under)estimation to be around half the actual figure at least, then well over half a million people marched to say 'not in my name'.
As for the far-right; they did exactly what Braverman wanted them to, but exposed themselves for the racist thugs they really are. Nonsense about 'defending the monuments' has been exposed as a total sham, and they've been denounced by pretty much everyone. Even Brave Little Tommy was denounced by many of his own, for scuttling away early with his tail between his legs. The small crowd of thugs I saw at Westminster as I was leaving to go home, were just a bunch of pissed up and coke-fuelled morons, being kettled by police. I feel sorry for these people. What a waste of a life to go through it with so much fear and hate in your soul.
But one thing that I am now determined more than ever to challenge when I see it, is anti-Semitism. There were a number of ignorant people on the march, and conflating 'Zionism' and Judaism is wrong. From my own experience,I know that a lot of young Asian Muslims can be very ignorant and naive, but the key is education. I hope that from this, more conversations can be had, and more minds opened. As a Muslim, I feel it is my duty to show solidarity with Jewish people, and minorities everywhere, because only through solidarity can we have the power to resist fascism.
And fascism is coming. Braverman is just the start.
Looking forward to Have I got News for you on Friday
We really are through the looking glass.
Osborne to make a come back?
I can only think that cameron needs both the money and a boost to his self-worth.
He won't be held to scrutiny in the commons but is likeky to get a hard time in the lords - here's hoping.
This will be a divisive appointment with tory MPs but, IMO, will be popular in the party.
It would be re-assuring if a high level government minister had a demonstrable record of sound decision making.
cameron doesn't have that - failing to understand or not caring about the consequences of austerity, brexit referendum, Greensill.
His cowardly decision to resign immediately after the referendum after saying he woukd stick with it.
Part of his new responsibility will be to deliver new trade deals; I predict dismal failure.
Difficult to see him having much credibility in any of the current war zones.
But one thing that I am now determined more than ever to challenge when I see it, is anti-Semitism.
Why "more than ever"? You claimed not to have seen any anti-semitic posters and banners on the demo.
I didn't either, despite being there from the start to the finish and witnessing tens of thousands of placards and banners. Nor did I hear any anti-semitic chants, despite being in the presence of hundreds of thousands of people.
I will always oppose the stupidity and destructive nature of racism, and no doubt a few individuals in a crowd of hundreds of thousands struggle to make a distinction between Jews and Zionists (the worse offenders are Zionists themselves) but I am more than ever convinced that claims of anti-semitism are grossly exaggerated and barely figure on the radar.
Cleverly's first 'promises' - stop the boats and protect the British people.
The first part - yeah, meaningless sound bite which we've all heard so many times...to absolutely no effect.
As for 'protect the British people' wtf does that mean?
I think its time, once again, to leave the last word on our new Foreign Secretary to that sage of our era, Danny Dyer....
SPOT. ON.
good article here about how unpopular Braverman was in the Blue Wall
I reckon polling data from these areas is partly behind cameron coming in
Nice post brownperson.
Cleverly’s first ‘promises’ – stop the boats and protect the British people.
When the Allies were advancing on Berlin and the world was collapsing all around them the Nazis, in an act of hopeless desperation, hung onto the belief that a German wonder-weapon would materialise and save them.
"Stop The Boats" is the wunderwaffe that the Tories desperately want to believe will save them from electoral annihilation.
Cleverly’s first ‘promises’ – stop the boats and protect the British people.
So he'll be applying foreign aid, committing troops to UN deployments and helping the nations people are fleeing to become more stable? All the while committing further resources to combat people traffickers?
Or are we sticking with shithole internment camps and Rwanda?
Another useless turd. And as a sidebar makes way too much of his unspectacular service in the Army reserve. Absolute whopper of a man.
Why “more than ever”? You claimed not to have seen any anti-semitic posters and banners on the demo.
Because Jewish people are suffering backlash for this war, as ignorant people conflate the actions of a government with an entire race and culture. I'm seeing loads of Star of David and Swastika combos on material posted on social media, and I'm hearing quite a bit of anti-Semitic rhetoric when out and about. Mostly low-level stuff, but there is so much ignorance and misinformation out there that must be challenged. Also, not enough people are condemning Hamas. Disproportionality aside, Hamas have tortured and murdered so many innocent people, including peace activists and non-Jews. Women were gang-raped. Children executed. Let's not ignore this. Without wanting to rake over old ground, or apportion blame or whatever, such actions must not be conveniently brushed under the carpet. Youths with Hamas bandanas etc might think they're being edgy and cool, but you cannot condemn the actions of one side without condemning similar on all sides. I read that police were anticipating a convoy of cars with young men holding Palestinian flags, that were planning to drive through Jewish communities in London. I've witnessed such in the past; people in those communities are no more responsible for what is happening in Gaza now, than I am for the actions of our politicians. Like; we don't accept certain right-wing elements conflating Hamas with all Palestinians, so likewise we have to challenge similar towards Jews, when we see it.
“Stop The Boats” is the wunderwaffe that the Tories desperately want to believe will save them from electoral annihilation.
Guessing they feel is is holding a lot of votes for them. In reality it makes little difference to people lives.
Does one boat a day coming or 100 boats a day coming make any difference to my life and would I even be able to notice it - No.
Is it awful that it is happening for those involved - Yes, but that is not why the tories are so obsessed with it is it.
Not read the rest of this, but was she setup as the fall women to allow changes to happen or was she really that much of a loose cannon?
Cleverly’s first ‘promises’ – stop the boats and protect the British people.
FFS more of that old Tory BS eh. "no don't look at us, it's not us to blame, look over there! Them! It's their fault!"
Protect us from this bunch of Tories more like.
Braverman was probably only sacked for undermining Sunak, the messages won't change.
Also, not enough people are condemning Hamas.
It is constantly pointed out that the UK sees Hamas as a terrorist organization so goes without saying they will be doing very shitty things. Israel, as far as I am aware, have not been labelled a terrorist organization and even worse we are supportive of what they are doing. If any other "valid" country was doing the same other countries would not just be sitting and watching. Okay, maybe they would but they wouldn't be giving them support.
as ignorant people conflate the actions of a government with an entire race and culture.
Racist people in being ignorant shocker
Also, not enough people are condemning Hamas
That's one of the main issues here, people think it's binary, there are three entities at play in this conflict
The IDF - directed by the Israeli government
The Palestinian People.
Hamas.
The Palestinians are sandwiches between two sides having a kinetic ding dong and dying hand over fist as a result.
Hamas give zero ****s about the Palestinian People, the IDF want to kill Hamas and if the Palestinians get in the way it's unavoidable 'collateral damage'.
Women were gang-raped. Children executed.
So you have switched from what was allegedly happening on pro-Palestinian demos to what has allegedly happened in Israel. That's quite a leap. Still, it is a forbidden topic on STW.
Do we now need a James! Cleverley! thread?
was she setup as the fall women to allow changes to happen
You mean like bringing back a washed-up prime minister from the past?
Edit: I am looking forward to Liz Truss's triumphant return to frontline politics.
If any other “valid” country was doing the same other countries would not just be sitting and watching.
This isn't true at all. Other countries have recently sat and watched as civilians were cut off from basic supplies, ethnically cleansed, and killed in Ethiopia, Yemen, Central African Republic. That's not to say they should sit and do it again, but Israel’s position here is not unique.
Braverman was probably only sacked for undermining Sunak
Poor woman. I doubt she's been this upset since she was unable to fly a few dozen foreigners off to Rwanda or stick a whole load of desperate asylum seekers onto a disease-riddled barge.
The Palestinians are sandwiches between two sides having a kinetic ding dong and dying hand over fist as a result.
Hamas give zero **** about the Palestinian People, the IDF want to kill Hamas and if the Palestinians get in the way it’s unavoidable ‘collateral damage’.
Yes I agree. Hamas' leaders are extremists, whereas most Palestinians are much more liberal. Many are quite secular. Hamas' leadership are a group whose aims are simply to wipe out Israel and kill all Jews living there. It's complicated though by the fact that as no actual democracy exists in Palestine (because it isn't allowed by Israel to engage in any form of democratic process), Hamas have risen up in a vacuum, and offer resistance. This is an inevitable consequence of suppressing democracy, and a situation engineered by those who wish for a perpetuation of war. The same exists in Israel; whilst there is a continuous state of fear, so belligerent right-wing governments will prevail.
Did the isreali government not bring about the end of the palestinian authority that created a more moderate leadership?
But one thing that I am now determined more than ever to challenge when I see it, is anti-Semitism. There were a number of ignorant people on the march, and conflating ‘Zionism’ and Judaism is wrong. From my own experience,I know that a lot of young Asian Muslims can be very ignorant and naive, but the key is education. I hope that from this, more conversations can be had, and more minds opened. As a Muslim, I feel it is my duty to show solidarity with Jewish people, and minorities everywhere, because only through solidarity can we have the power to resist fascism.
What a honourable sentiment @brownperson, I wish there were more people that spoke this sensibly about the issue.
Did the isreali government not bring about the end of the palestinian authority that created a more moderate leadership?
The PLO took the, er, Sinn Féin route (sorry if that's a crass comparison) and lost out at the ballot box because of it. When people lead desperate lives, and/or live in fear, the hardliners have the means to build on their support. See also the Israeli Labour party losing influence and power (not to mention key politicians being assassinated) in Israel, and the rise and control of the country by the war hungry far right.
According to the Daily Mash, Braverman was told that being sacked is a lifestyle choice.
They're on good form today but I guess they've got an absolute ton of material to go at!
Did the isreali government not bring about the end of the palestinian authority that created a more moderate leadership?
No.
no actual democracy exists in Palestine (because it isn’t allowed by Israel to engage in any form of democratic process), Hamas have risen up in a vacuum, and offer resistance.
This is totally backward. Hamas's position was strengthened as a result of Fatah ineptitude and corruption, and it was elected in contested and democratic-ish elections. Hamas and Fatah then fought a civil war, Fatah was expelled from Gaza, and in response Fatah cancelled democratic elections. The PNA is not internally democratic because it doesn't suit the Palestinian ruling class (or, perhaps, western powers) for it to be democratic.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Palestinian_legislative_election
It looks as if there might actually be some very good news for Rishi Sunak on Wednesday:
The latest City expectation is that inflation on Wednesday will come in at 4.8% according to Refinitiv, or 4.7% according to Bloomberg.
Unfortunately for Rishi Sunak because he has decided to focus so much on something which was never going to be achievable the good news on Wednesday which affects ordinary voters lives, and was always going to be easy to achieve, will be completely overshadowed by Rwanda and arguments over whether the UK should withdraw from the ECHR.
I have no doubt that most voters are more concerned about inflation than ECHR membership.
I don't think Rishi Sunak is stupid but he is clearly not a brilliant strategist
Jeremy Quin says he has resigned as paymaster general, a minister in the Cabinet Office. He says he wants to focus on projects in Horsham, his constituency, where he had a majority of 21,127 at the last election.
Another one gone. Got to be approaching double figures now
Did the isreali government not bring about the end of the palestinian authority that created a more moderate leadership?
No.
Absolutely they did. Israel created Hamas to undermine the secular and left-wing PLO. They were very successful.
Why is this being discussed when it is a forbidden topic?
Israel created Hamas to undermine the secular and left-wing PLO.
This is why it's hard to discuss this stuff on a forum. Would you want this nonsense appearing on your website?
The Israeli government back then kept channels open with all parties in Gaza, no matter how opposed to Israel they were, or if they backed terrorist attacks (back when talking without prerequisites was was accepted as the route to peace). They did not create Hamas.
Ha ha ha Cameron must now be the best candidate they've got to replace sunak. I don't know if it's legally possible but he's surely the most competent in government at the moment
Wee Ruthie must have fo'd the FO
Just when you thought you were scraping the barrel, someone had a look underneath
BP I think you'll find that a lot of those allegations against Hamas were quietly dropped by journalists and politicians because there was no evidence for it. Also, what you refer to as 'collateral damage' is also referred to by the perpetrators as 'mowing the lawn'.
Would you want this nonsense appearing on your website?
Why not? The Wall Street Journal don't have a problem with that "nonsense" on their website:
https://web.archive.org/web/20090926212507/http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123275572295011847.html
"Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel's creation," says Mr. Cohen, a Tunisian-born Jew who worked in Gaza for more than two decades. Responsible for religious affairs in the region until 1994, Mr. Cohen watched the Islamist movement take shape, muscle aside secular Palestinian rivals and then morph into what is today Hamas, a militant group that is sworn to Israel's destruction."
Obviously not everyone likes the truth but I wouldn't necessarily put STW in that category, would you?
The rise of Hamas was possible because of actions taken (and not taken) by Israeli governments.
I really appreciate your comments, @brownperson, and it’s a shame to see you getting some pushback for them.
The rise of Hamas was possible because....
Read it article.
Edit: To be fair to the Israelis it was at a time when the CIA was financing and arming Osama bin Laden and Margaret Thatcher was supporting Pol Pot.
It just seemed like a good idea at the time.
Read it article.
It'll say what I said. Dialogue between the Israeli government any and all players in Gaza (while seeking a peaceful future) including the hardliners of Hamas, emboldened and empowered them... gave the more extreme elements political legitimacy. Helped them grow. But it is not the case that they... "created Hamas to undermine the secular and left-wing PLO". But well done for inserting that conspiracy theory into this thread.
But it is not the case that they… “created Hamas to undermine the secular and left-wing PLO”
That is exactly what the Wall Street Journal article says.
Maybe a strongly worded email to the WSJ demanding that they remove that "nonsense" from their website?
I've read it now. It's a good piece... if you read the whole thing. Worth a read. It doesn't say what you say it does... unless you choose to ignore 90% of the words.
I'll pick a select phrase from it...
"Israeli officials who served in Gaza disagree on how much their own actions may have contributed to the rise of Hamas. They blame the group's recent ascent on outsiders, primarily Iran."
...and add that I think the actions of Israeli officials greatly contributed to the rise of Hamas... but it is simply not the case that they... "created Hamas to undermine the secular and left-wing PLO". That's conspiracy theory nonsense of the oldest kind. The roots of Hamas are well known. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas
I don't think the phrase shuffling the deckchairs on the Titanic is fully adequate now to describe this Tory party.
It doesn’t say what you say it does… unless you choose to ignore 90% of the words.
Well you choose to ignore these words:
"Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel’s creation,” says Mr. Cohen, a Tunisian-born Jew who worked in Gaza for more than two decades."
I think they are quite important. And exactly the same point as I was making.
Guys may i humbly suugest that this gets dropped? Its into arguing semantics already
Apologies for starting it
It comes to something doesn't it, when you see Cameron and think "well... that's probably the least worst option."
The issue was the muppets who succeeded him pursuing some idealistic dream brexit rather than seeking compromises.
Well, that was arguably an issue but it sure as shit wasn't the issue.
Guys may i humbly suugest that this gets dropped? Its into arguing semantics already
TJ now with the antisemantic views.
antisemantic views
I don't know whether that's the best thing or the worst thing I have ever read.
Apologies for starting it
Was it you??
t Thatcher was supporting Pol Pot
Did'nt know that it 's not much of a surprise though
[i]Apologies for starting it
Was it you??[/i]
TJ started Hamas?!?! Quick tell the Wall Street Journal and M<t Cohen that they got it wrong.
This is why I alway come to STW for my world news updates.
TJ now with the antisemantic views.
🎩👏
Post of the week right there
TJ now with the antisemantic views.
Im not keen on vests either so i am an anti semmit
This is why I alway come to STW for my world news updates.
More Hamas related news updates......in two weeks time it will be 2 years since the Tories decided that Hamas are terrorists:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/islamist-terrorist-group-hamas-banned-in-the-uk
It comes to something doesn’t it, when you see Cameron and think “well… that’s probably the least worst option.”
A safe pair of hands. It's not as if we can leave Europe twice, is it?
Cameron must now be the best candidate they’ve got to replace sunak. I don’t know if it’s legally possible but he’s surely the most competent in government at the moment
If this is possible then it's fairly terrifying as I can see him winning the next GE or getting close enough to prevent Labour forming a government.
It is "possible" for David Cameron to become PM again, it just requires the King to ask him to form a government. It's been a very long time since there has been a PM from the House of Lords though.
It just shows how ridiculous the whole House of Lords nonsense is and why Starmer should stick to his pledge to "Abolish the House of Lords – replace it with an elected chamber of regions and nations".
Edit: I don't see how or why Austerity Dave would be an electoral asset for the Tories. There is overwhelming evidence that voters want change, not failed former prime ministers from the past dug up.
So you have switched from what was allegedly happening on pro-Palestinian demos to what has allegedly happened in Israel. That’s quite a leap. Still, it is a forbidden topic on STW.
I haven't 'switched' from anything. I just feel it's important for impartiality in respect of victims of war. It is well evidenced that hostile forces often use rape and sexual violence against prisoners. There have been eye witness accounts of rape from October 7th. In fact, Israeli women's groups are concerned with the lack of evidence gathering regarding this. <br /><br /> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/10/israel-womens-groups-warn-of-failure-to-keep-evidence-of-sexual-violence-in-hamas-attacks
It has been well evidenced that the IDF has used rape and sexual violence against Palestinians too. We must not be partisan when it comes to concern and compassion for victims, any victims. Analysis of suffering must have equivalence. No life is worth more or less than any other.
I am not concerned with being on the 'right side'; I find such reductionism abhorrent and counter-productive. As I've mentioned previously; my partner is Jewish. Anyone who comes for her, comes for me also. The only path to peace is through solidarity.
It comes to something doesn’t it, when you see Cameron and think “well… that’s probably the least worst option.”
I wonder if Gideon fancies chucking his gig at the Evening Standard then we can go full circle.
Halcyon days indeed.
I've just been catching up with the news feed on the BBC, and this lower sentence made me read it three times. Then I realised it's actually 2 sentences.
Health Secretary Steve Barclay was seen arriving at No 10 a short time ago.
We don't yet know why. Barclay has been the health secretary since October 2022.
Further, I am not concerned with anyone who wishes to use this terrible tragedy to score internet points. Whilst you might think it a game to argue about the pointless and irrelevant minutiae of certain interpretations of history, the people of Gaza are suffering a collective punishment that is so utterly immoral, so disgusting, it degrades all of humanity. Some of you might want to consider your thoughts and words on here, and their potential impact. Many hundreds of innocent people lost their lives on October the 7th, many more thousands have lost their lives, their homes, their futures, since.
I found my wife yesterday, crying because of the sheer hopelessness of it all. Because babies are dying. My wife deals with human tragedies every day, as part of her job. She seldom cries. Her sister is living in daily fear in Israel, and whilst the 'risk' to her and her family is significantly less than in Gaza, the fear is still there. This is our family; we have Palestinian friends and colleagues who have lost loved ones, who cannot do anything to help those who remain. There is no hierarchy of grief, no scale of entitlement to outrage.
Please consider your words to one another more carefully. Look at your fellow human being; do you truly have hatred for them? Why not seek to build bridges and not trenches between one another? I myself am as guilty as anyone for wanting my voice heard, for wanting my sentiments to be regarded as righteous, but please. This is not the time for further division. Do not play the tories game. Again; the only way forward is through unity.
I'm going to leave this here for now, as it's clear my emotions are overriding rationality and clarity of vision. Peace to all.
Weird to see the "Israel created Hamas" canard being wheeled out to be support for the question (proposition):
Did the isreali government not bring about the end of the palestinian authority that created a more moderate leadership?
...when Hamas was founded in 1987 and the Palestinian Authority was created only in 1994.
Mind you, there's plenty of people that believe in Jewish Space Lasers and Muslamic Rayguns, so perhaps it's only a short hop to imagining Mossad time travelled back to create Hamas to end the PNA before it even existed.
It is well evidenced that hostile forces often use rape and sexual violence against prisoners
I thought you were giving a report about Saturday's demo? Why talk about rape and sexual violence?
Discussing the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is prohibited on STW.
Although if we are going down that road let's focus at least on the most important current issue - the catastrophic human consequences, not who is right and who is wrong
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-67334666
More than 11,000 people have been killed in Gaza according to the Hamas-run health ministry, including more than 4,500 children - but Nick believes those numbers could be just the tip of the iceberg.
"As a result of the bombings there will be large numbers of deaths due to untreated cancers, untreated diabetes," he says.
"Until insulin was invented, diabetes killed everyone. Now, if they haven't got any insulin... diabetes will start killing people.
"If they've got no power, they can't give dialysis, so all patients in kidney failure will die, so that the amount of excess deaths will be huge in the next few months absolutely is a really important point."
"They're drinking dirty, non-sterile water at the moment. The big danger is that infectious diseases just take control and run through the population...and that will lead to many, many thousands of deaths."
TJ now with the antisemantic views.
Very good but I tell you, puns will start WW III or something. 😉
Joking aside...
This thread, as so many of the political/ geopolitical ones do, remind me of how close the opinions are on here are yet pages are spent debating the slightest nuisance of difference.
I mean, I love STW and the heated discussions but it strikes me there is far more consensus than many like to admit. Wood for trees and all that.
Just my thoughts anyway.
It just shows how ridiculous the whole House of Lords nonsense is and why Starmer should stick to his pledge to “Abolish the House of Lords – replace it with an elected chamber of regions and nations”.<br /><br />
although… if you were the PM and you wanted a vaguely competent cabinet having a mechanism to coopt people to make up for the muppets the electorate voted for would be quite handy. It’s hardly uncommon for an ex-PM to end up in the lords. I’m not a fan of the Lords at all but I definitely don’t want a second chamber voted the way first chamber is!
I’m going to leave this here for now, as it’s clear my emotions are overriding rationality and clarity of vision. Peace to all.
On the contrary, your input is careful, measured, polite and informative.
Which rather shows up the rest of us, to be honest
I definitely don’t want a second chamber voted the way first chamber is!
Okay ..... so let's abolish the House of Lords – replace it with an elected chamber of regions and nations, which uses a different voting method.
On the contrary, your input is careful, measured, polite and informative.
Agreed. It's other argumentative sods on here that twist the discussion.
I’m going to leave this here for now, as it’s clear my emotions are overriding rationality and clarity of vision. Peace to all.
You and Ernie actually put your principles on view to the entire country yesterday. That's more than I did yesterday or any other day.
You are both on the same page as far as I can see, just different chapters at most.
Brown person take an hour or a day if yiu must. And try not get into tit fir tat arguement ( i know. Highly ironic coming from me)
But dont disappear please