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@relapsed_mandalorian I couldn't give a shit what his position is, I already said he had good points. What's annoyed me is his constant distortion/misrepresentation/call it what you will of what people are actually saying.
Edited
Just don't read my posts SK. They are often several paragraphs long so as soon as you see my name at the top ignore it and scroll down to the next post. Simples.
relapsed_mandalorian
Full Member
Ernie, it’s been explained enough, either read what people actually write or bugger off and let people have a discussion blow smoke up each others arses for sharing the same righteous postion without you screaming in the middle of another bloody topic circle-jerk.
Incisive
Just don’t read my posts SK. They are often several paragraphs long so as soon as you see my name at the top ignore it and scroll down to the next post. Simples.
So we're back to the circlejerk?
As I said, you do actually make good points but for some reason...
My last word on the matter - promise - do you not wonder that when several people tell you the same thing all at once (that you're basically making stuff up) they might actually be telling the truth? It's not like TJ, Binners and I are known for our collective harmony now is it?
As I said, you do actually make good points but for some reason…
But for some reason I really annoy you, as you keep telling me. Seriously, just skip my posts, or do you enjoy getting annoyed?
There 2 or 3 people on here whose posts I find tedious and predictable, I generally either skip them or very quickly scan them, I don't create a song and dance and throw personal insults at them.
In contrast I get the impression SK that you go through my posts with a fine tooth comb, why? You know my form now - I don't blame brexit for everything that is wrong and I don't support the opinion that the majority of voters are racists.
If that winds you up that much why bother engaging - you must have better ways of spending the bank holiday weekend than getting angry with random punters on social media?
do you not wonder that when several people tell you the same thing all at once (that you’re basically making stuff up) they might actually be telling the truth? It’s not like TJ, Binners and I are known for our collective harmony now is it?
Well first of all I am not aware that I have made anything up, it is certainly not my intention to do so. If I have misunderstood a point then apologies, although it's possible that you have misunderstood my point.
Secondly I don't tailor my opinions and what I post to satisfy you, binners, and TJ. Me and binners don't actually engage, he regularly posts some hyperbolic rant which I sometimes challenge, he invariably responds by posting pictures. TJ has a problem as he can't quite reconcile the fact that I don't agree with him that brexit is the cause of everything that is wrong, apparently he agrees with me on most other things. And you? Well I just annoy you - you might be surprised how little that bothers me. So no, I'm not going to change my opinions to suit what you three feel they should be.
Edit: Reading back this sounds more hostile than intended : "you might be surprised how little that bothers me". To be clear it's not my intention to annoy you, but I would suggest that you take the same attitude as I take and not get annoyed, or simply ignore me.
I don’t support the opinion that the majority of voters are racists.
See, there you again. No one has said that “the majority of voters are racists”.
brexit is the cause of everything that is wrong
Said no one.
See, there you again. No one has said that “the majority of voters are racists”.
Two pages ago on this very thread :
it’s safe to assume that a majority of the electorate in this country are so credulous and gullible, they’ll buy into any old anti-immigrant bollocks
I am glad you can confirm that the majority of the electorate who "buy into any old anti-immigrant bollocks" aren't racist.
I hadn't realised and I find that warmly reassuring.
They are people who aren’t racist that buy into the “blame the foreigners” nonsense, for sure. Tell them everything is under threat due to “swarms” and “floods” and the sheer (faked) scale of the (vastly exaggerated) problem makes them afraid and supportive of measures to “secure the borders”… and against those who they are told want “open door” and “uncontrolled” immigration (even though they don’t).
Guys guys - its all going round in circles! Stop!
I know thats rich coming from me but I do try to learn 🙂
🔁 😆 🦉
When you’re right, you’re right.
Earlier today I read some comments from Florida’s State Representative, DeSantos, going on about how much he likes being in England, and how in some ways it’s like being at home.
Now, if that isn’t a truly terrifying thought, I’m not sure what is. 😖
It now has a name... 'National Conservatism' and it does indeed have some thoroughly unpleasant far right bedfellows that we should all be concerned about.
The foes and bugbears that will be decried include “political theories grounded in race”, and “a powerful new Marxism”.
develop the kind of chaotic populism associated with figures such as Donald Trump and Boris Johnson into something much more moralistic, and highly organised and codified.
National conservatism, they say, is a movement that wants “a world of independent nations”, societies centred on the traditional family (“built around a lifelong bond between a man and a woman” and therefore spurning “ever more radical forms of sexual licence and experimentation”), and a big official role for Christianity (“which should be honoured by the state and other institutions both public and private”).
Strength through unity, unity through faith!
😐
Sounds very much like the nasty bunch opposing assisted dying.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/small-boats-sunak-braverman-rwanda-b2328318.html
“I’ve been to Rwanda, and the shadow of the genocide there in the 1990s hangs over that country. It’s ruled with a very firm hand by Paul Kagame,” he said of the current president, a former military commander.
“It’s got a pretty dark history, and it’s not the sort of environment I would put people from Syria and elsewhere in the world into.”
This in an mailout from Byline Supplement today. The current Conservatives and 'Conservatism' aka populist far right BS align and it's fair to judge people by the company they keep. Sunak included.
Rishi Sunak Defends Suella Braverman’s Appearance at Radical ‘National Conservatism’ Event Alongside ‘Great Replacement’ Conspiracy Theorists and Covid Deniers
Fellow speakers have called for abortion to be banned and said the PM does not understand British culture due to his Hindu faith, reports Adam Bienkov and Karam Bales
ADAM BIENKOV AND BYLINE SUPPLEMENT
MAY 11Rishi Sunak has defended his Home Secretary Suella Braverman’s upcoming appearance at a radical right-wing conference, alongside speakers who have labeled parts of Britain a “foreign country”, called for abortion to be banned, suggested life should be made “harder” for Muslims, pushed far-right conspiracy theories and suggested that the Prime Minister himself is not “fully grounded in our culture” due to his Hindu faith.
Braverman is due to appear at the National Conservatism event in London next week, alongside the Levelling Up Secretary Michael Gove, former ministers Jacob Rees-Mogg and Lord Frost and the Conservative MP Miriam Cates.
Speakers at previous events have included the Hungarian Prime Minister, and autocrat, Viktor Orban, the book-banning Governor of Florida Ron DeSantis and the far-right Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni.
Other speakers due to appear at the event in London next week include the right-wing commentator Douglas Murray, who has previously described the UK capital as a “foreign country” due to the large number of ethnic minority citizens living there and given credence to the far-right conspiracy theory that Britain and other majority-white Western countries are victims of a “Great Replacement” by migrant populations.
He was also accused of Islamophobia after suggesting that “conditions for Muslims in Europe must be made harder across the board”. At the time, Murray’s comments reportedly led to David Cameron’s government breaking off relations with him.
Other figures connected to the event have also pushed the ‘Great Replacement’ theory. One of the signatories of the organisation’s manifesto, David Azerrad, has previously suggested that Western migration policies are being deliberately used for the importation of “untold millions of peoples of different colors, creeds and cultures for decades on end”, adding that “this is what tyrants do to conquer a broken people, to pacify them.”
Also due to speak at the event is the disgraced historian David Starkey, who was widely condemned after previously saying that slavery was not genocide as “otherwise there wouldn't be so many damn blacks in Africa or in Britain.” Starkey was last week forced to deny further allegations of racism after accusing the Prime Minister himself of being “not fully grounded in our culture” due to his Hindu faith.
Other scheduled speakers include the Trump-supporting US Senator JD Vance who wants a nation-wide ban on abortion in the States. When previously asked whether any ban should include exceptions for rape and incest, he replied that "two wrongs don't make a right."
Vance has also been accused of pushing the racist ‘Great Replacement’ conspiracy theory, telling Fox News last year that he believed the country was suffering an immigrant “invasion” in which Democrats “have decided that they can’t win re-election… unless they bring a large number of new voters to replace the voters that are already here”. Vance has also previously pushed a hoax conspiracy theory about President Biden planning to put people into Covid “quarantine camps”.
Other so-called Covid ‘skeptics’ at the event include the commentator Toby Young, who was previously criticised by the press regulator IPSO after writing a “significantly misleading” anti-lockdown column which suggested people who had recovered from the common cold could have “natural immunity” to Covid-19.
Asked about the appearance of senior ministers and Conservative politicians at an event alongside speakers with such views, Rishi Sunak’s Press Secretary told Byline Times on Wednesday that “ministers and members of the party are free to speak at events where they see fit.”
A Conference for the Evangelical Hard Right
NatCon is designed to support the Conservative Nationalism (CN) movement which is based in the evangelical Christian Right. The group’s Statement of Principles includes demands for nations to be governed on the basis of “humility and gratitude before God and fear of his judgment”, while also backing immigration moratoriums and opposing what it describes as the “grave threat” of “ever more radical forms of sexual license and experimentation as an alternative to the responsibilities of family and congregational life”.The line up for NatCon London 2023 resembles a CPAC for culture wars. There is considerable crossover of speakers between NatCons and the Hungarian CPAC in 2022 which was described as a gathering of the international right in a previous Byline Times report.
Speakers at NatCon 2023 also include former Revolutionary Communist Party member and editor of Spiked Online Frank Furedi, and James Orr, who is also chair of NatCon UK, and UK chair of the Edmund Burke Foundation (EBF).
The EBF is NatCon’s parent organisation. Founded in January 2019 as a public affairs institute, its stated aim is “strengthening the principles of national conservatism in Western and other democratic countries” through research, educational and publishing ventures.
EBF member and NatCon chair Christopher Demuth is also scheduled to speak in London. Demuth is a fellow of the conservative think tank the Hudson Institute and former president of the American Enterprise Institute (AEI) from 1986-2008. The AEI is considered to be one of most influential right wing think tanks in the US. One of the AEI’s largest funders is the Donors Trust which has been described as “the Dark money ATM of the conservative movement” by MotherJones.
Conference organisers have declined a request by Byline Times to attend and cover the event.
We went to watch Frankie Boyle last night and he did a section about Suella Braverman which, if I tried to repeat in any form would get me an immediate lifetime ban. It was very, very funny though
Nice to see risky edgy comedy not getting cancelled or censored.
Why, which comedian has been cancelled or censored recently??
Not that hilarious wife-beater Jim Davidson again?!?
Although no one seems quite able to censor him. And if any of his shows are cancelled I suspect it is most likely due to lack of sales:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/jim-davidson-goes-epic-rant-13065337
Jim Davidson goes on epic rant at venue after no one turns up to see his show
I bet Suella Braverman would have accepted a complimentary ticket to watch Davidson perform his repertoire of hysterical jokes and mimicking of brown people.
The letter cites three specific Bar Council code of conduct rules it claims have been breached, including behaving in a way which is likely to diminish trust and confidence, conduct which the public may reasonably perceive as undermining honesty, integrity or independence, and a breach of the instruction not to discriminate against any other person on the grounds of race, colour, ethnic or national origin or other grounds.
You would assume that organisations such as the Society of Asian Lawyers and the Association of Muslim Lawyers have done their homework and are fairly confident that they have a strong case against Suella Braverman.
I don't know what punitive action the Bar Standards Board can take against someone they find guilty of professional misconduct, but whatever it is it must surely be welcomed if it challenges Braverman's behaviour.
Why?
What makes you think she cares? Do you really think she expects to have to work for a living like some sort of pleb ever again?
Because I feel that the 9 organisations who have lodged a complaint with the Bar Standards Board urging them to investigate and take action are confident that this is a worthwhile exercise.
And also because it is widely accepted that Braverman harbours ambitions, realistic or otherwise, to become Conservative Party leader. Being found guilty of professional misconduct really won't help her to achieve that.
Like the current Labour leader Braverman is known to exploit her background as a barrister to further her political career :
https://www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/barrister-casts-doubt-suella-bravermans-cv-claim
She would undoubtedly consider any censure by a professional body to be a drawback, it is difficult to believe that she would dismiss it as unimportant.
We are all lazy and could forget how to work. That should appeal to the tory ****er voters but then won't they always be voting tory anyway. Does it appeal to the people who swung away from tories in local elections?
Clearly easy to rip apart the ignorance of what she is saying (again) but that doesn't matter, she has said it now so it is in the idiots minds.
Braverman harbours ambitions, realistic or otherwise, to become Conservative Party leader. Being found guilty of professional misconduct really won’t help her to achieve that.
Isn't it a requirement for the successful applicant nowadays?
Clearly easy to rip apart the ignorance of what she is saying (again) but that doesn’t matter, she has said it now so it is in the idiots minds.
The entire MO of the Tories post-Brexit. 🤷♂️
I see Cruella has said that post-Brexit visa rules won't be relaxed, despite labour shortages as
Thousands of Britons should be trained to drive trucks, work in the meat industry and gather crops rather than filling vacancies with foreign workers, Suella Braverman will tell Conservative activists on Monday.
Suella Braverman to rebuff cabinet calls for easing of visa rules
Theres no detail on where she intends to magic these people up from. Maybe they'll grow them in petri dishes. In a more likely explanation, some vile Tory outrider was on Five Live this morning saying that the culture of 'paying people to do nothing' isn't an option and the benefits system needs reform to make people take these available jobs
It seemed inevitable really that this was in the pipeline, didn't it?
Though they seemed to have given as much thought to the logistics as they have to that of the Rwanda scheme. If someone is unemployed in the North East of England, are they going to be forced to move to Lincolnshire to pick fruit. And if so, where are they going to live? Workhouses, I presume?
Edit: Having read the Guardian article, apparently this is an actual real thing 😳
If someone is unemployed in the North East of England, are they going to be forced to move to Lincolnshire to pick fruit. And if so, where are they going to live?
The market will decide.
Until the market shows any tendency to redistribute wealth and then legislation will be necessary.
Looking forward to outraged of Boston talking about all these non-locals with their alien culture of wearing flimsy dresses in the winter and football and stotties. Then demanding they be repatriated to Sunderland or wherever.
Then demanding they be repatriated to Sunderland
That's really cruel that mind.
It's an unsinkable rubber duck this "pay people to pick fruit" thing, isn't it? There's nothing tories love more than a annually harvestable line of bullshit rather than having to plant new ones, since ironically they are very much against working hard.
It now has a name… ‘National Conservatism’ and it does indeed have some thoroughly unpleasant far right bedfellows that we should all be concerned about.
Whenever a political party starts throwing words like "National" around in their headings, not to mention "cultural marxism" in their briefings you've got to wonder just how far to the right they are intending to go..
As for the "grassroots" Conservative Democratic Organisation? Well, their emblem? Look familiar some how?
It’s a front for a far right US think tank, no surprise to see the Tory ****er division throwing their full support behind it.
https://twitter.com/peterwalker99/status/1658017797778145280?s=61&t=27Xz8oI3pGlaNEQvowJBcg
Brexit is like a self inflicted 'Morgenthau Plan', (the original plan to deal with Germany after WW2 and the one favoured by Roosevelt). The idea was to prevent Germany from reindustrialising by turning it into a nation of turnip farmers.
It was as late as 1944 that the allies had a rethink, Churchill above all recognising Germany's economic importance to continental Europe, saying that such a plan would leave Britain "tethered to a cprpse" and would result in famine and inevitble further conflict on the continent.
Conservative Unionist Nationalist Tories is the correct name, I believe.
Genuine question - if the Tories Godwin themselves, is it still a Godwin to point it out? Or do we have to wait for mass book burning to be sure?
Go on Danny, call the Tories Nazis, you know you want to.
So Cruella has kicked off the next Tory leadership battle then? And Rishi has fully backed what she’s said, thus confirming, if their was any doubt, that he’s a fully paid up member of the ERG/Brexit/NatCon headbangers club! Unless it’s really severe Stockholm syndrome
One Tory MP, far from impressed with todays latest leadership bid, noted that it’s a bit rich dedicating an entire speech to slagging off the present immigration system when its your own party that has been in power for the last 13 years and you’re presently the actual Home Secretary
Tory MPs accuse Suella Braverman of making bid for party leadership
‘paying people to do nothing’ isn’t an option and the benefits system needs reform to make people take these available jobs
My son turns 18 next year- given his cerebral palsy, I always feared for his job prospects.
Now he can be in charge of one of the new longer artics to keep them happy! Though given the repairs his wheelchairs needed I don’t want to be on the road when he’s driving!
Ballet Dancer -> Cyber -> Lorry Driver -> Seasonal Agricultural Worker
Busy Fatima.
What’s next on her training and career path?
It's not looking good for the nasty people...
If your'e cheering to your own crowd... etc.
If you fed the mail online into a blender Braverman would pop out. Weird Science.
evil evil evil evil evil evil evil
Utterly discracefull the way the UK GOV are deporting.
There is a special place in hell for these people.
Not that I'm religeous, but I'd send her to hell too.
https://sflix.se/movie/watch-guy-ritchies-the-covenant-hd-95935
The thing is you know that she’s an absolute shoe-in for the next leader of the Tory Party. She knows it too.
The obvious glee she takes from inflicting misery on the poor and desperate is mirrored by the majority of Tory MPs and their affluent, elderly, racist base. They all love this shit! They’ll vote her in in a heartbeat
That might well be a good thing, as she marches the party off further and further to the unhinged Trumpian right she becomes abhorrent to more and more of the electorate
She's a dark horse.
Braverman has launched her leadership campaign now for certain. She's popping up everywhere being nasty.
Obviously she is playing to her natural crowd at the moment, but if experience has taught them anything over the last 7 years it is that there is more of a crowd for her than most of us like to admit. Sorry times.
On the plus side, I have figured who/what Cruella has been reminding me of for so long. It is Jabba the Hutt's pet/sidekick Salacious Crumb.
If I can get an image to post, I will.
Braverman has launched her leadership campaign now for certain. She’s popping up everywhere being nasty.
To be honest I think this is a good thing. It was the same with Truss, Rishi and the oversexed honeymonster. As long as they're preoccupied with personal campaigning then they carry on doing what they've always done - promising the moon on a stick (40 new hospitals, a mini- nuclear reactor on every street, reform of social care) while having no intention whatsoever in delivering any of it as it isn't actually a policy at all, its a vague, wooly campaign 'promise'
Of course this means that in amongst the perma-campaign and associated backstabbing, we've effectively not had a government at all for the past 4 years. Having said that, given what happened on probably the single solitary time they actually carried through their campaign promises - Liz and Kamikwasi's mini-budget - having the country ungoverned, rudderless and drifting is infinitely preferable
at least drifting there's a chance we'll avoid collisions.
When we're being steered, it's towards spiky rocks that already has a flaming oiltanker aground on them.
Does she want the top job before the next ge? I guess she does, which presumably means she thinks she can beat starmer. Given that immigration was largely behind the brexit vote I fear a great many voters do listen to her. Cripes.
This whole NatCon thing is weird
Im not sure we are ready for full US style tea party politics, GBNews does not have anywhere near the reach of Foxnews (yet)
I cant decide whether its a cunning ploy to have ministers & MPs like Braverman/Mogg/Kruger etc go there and spout their extreme stuff safely removed from the Tory party- keeps the frothing nutters onside, but still deniable, or whether the rest of the electorate just look at the Tories and think- get these dinosaurs away from power asap!
either way if you have to go to such efforts to explain why you're definitely not a fascist...
https://twitter.com/DmitryOpines/status/1658380244259143681
the oversexed honeymonster.
You paint pictures with words as well as crayons 👌
Given that immigration was largely behind the brexit vote I fear a great many voters do listen to her. Cripes.
Quite.
But - it could never happen here* etc.
*It really could.
having the country ungoverned, rudderless and drifting is infinitely preferable
I suppose it means that the disaster capitalists and exploiters have to actually look for the cracks rather than create them, but it's scant consolation.
It never ceases to amaze me when otherwise rational & intelligent work colleagues start spouting racist right wing s@1t!! Don't underestimate the selfishness/entitlement of the country , plus the reach of the mail/express.
I read Melanie Philips' article on archive. It's interesting in the sense that she makes no attempt to explain why any of the points that have been made by any of the speakers at the conference aren't right wing no sir not at all.....she just repeats the mantra "we're not right wing....honest..." It's fing fantastically deluded stuff.
All you really need to do is ask yourself if you know of any previous political movements with the word 'National' as part of their title who aren't (or don't at least aspire to be) genocidal lunatics?
I can think of many binners. It's the aims not the name that's the real problem. Think of the NHS, and the SNP... "national" doesn't have to mean what these National Conservatives want it to mean. The idea of a nation state that is open, tolerant and cooperative again is the big challenge of the next decade... here and in the USA.
"Im not sure we are ready for full US style tea party politics, GBNews does not have anywhere near the reach of Foxnews (yet)"
I hope you're right but Fox news put the frog in tepid water to start with then gradually turned up the heat. GB News turned the temperature up first and replaced the water with burning oil.
It's often been said that Fox News is the propaganda wing of the Republican party. Though similar, GB News isn't the propaganda wing of the Conservative Party, when you look at their line up, you'd have to say that GB News actually is the Conservative Party.
In terms of reach, Fox News doesn't actually have that many subscribers, their reach comes from how their product gets recycled through other media.
We love to mock the low viewing figures GB News achieve or their financial losses but if you look at how much of their content gets republished and disseminated then you could argue that it provides pretty good value for its funders.
In terms of reach, Fox News doesn’t actually have that many subscribers, their reach comes from how their product gets recycled through other media.
National newspapers have a similar role here. Arguably Fox news is just doing the same as papers like the Mail and Sun do over here... different media landscape, different geography, different regulatory framework... all lead to it being more appropriate to seed and feed the right wing debate via TV over there rather than newspapers.
word ‘National’ as part of their title who aren’t (or don’t at least aspire to be) genocidal lunatics?
I was going to offer National Express, my favourite way to travel when a student.
From a cyclists point of view, aren't all coach drivers genocide lunatics?
Take the National Express when your life's in a mess
Ba-ba-ba-da 🙂
Tune!
Our Mutual Friend is my favourite. Or perhaps The Certainty Of Chance. Or perhaps… damn, too many great tunes.
Natural history museum appears to have made a huge blunder allowing the NatC conference, especially considering holocaust denier Douglas Murray has used it to spout his bile
https://twitter.com/5iveFlights/status/1658553698589523969?t=5p-C0FHlXIeGWz6RKTgZZw&s=19
^ Tut tut.
Defence of course will be that she didn't get special treatment and took the points. The rest was just enquiring, wasn't trying to avoid anything, etc.
Corrupt bastards.
https://twitter.com/HarryYorke1/status/1659951990741368834
How utterly surprising
What's genuinely surprising is that the mail are leading with it
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1660028109612097540?t=F4Yd3mm1deN0vpNOt_0Z5Q&s=19
And the Times broke the story.
Edit : It should be remembered that the Mail on Sunday strongly backed Remain in the referendum.
That was under Georgie greige
He was ousted after moving to the daily mail for his remain stance
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/nov/17/geordie-greig-ousted-as-editor-of-the-daily-mail
If you read the article the headline is "Geordie Greig ousted as editor of the Daily Mail".
Greig was the editor of the Daily Mail, not the Mail On Sunday. In fact according to your link he was replaced by the Mail On Sunday editor Ted Verity.
The Mail On Sunday very strongly supported Remain, as my link to their editorial shows. There is no reason to assume that it has any particular personal loyalty to Suella Braverman.
Iirc Greig was MOS editor whilst it was pro remain and was moved to DM and was then ousted because he was too anti Johnson
Dacre wanted him gone & won in the end, he's now at the independent
Since then MOS & DM seem to have been in lockstep
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geordie_Greig
MOS has been loving bravermans Rwanda gig
holocaust denier Douglas Murray
Adjective Noun: Why Every One Of My Goddamn Books Apparently Needs A Sub-title
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Murray_(author)
You could argue that Grieg was actually promoted after the Mail On Sunday backed Remain by being made editor of the Daily Mail. And although he was replaced as editor 18 months ago I believe that he remained a consultant editor.
Ultimately it is Viscount Rothermere who has final say on editorial policy so I can't see that the Mail On Sunday would have backed Remain against his wishes - the editorial team would have been simply replaced.
MOS has been loving bravermans Rwanda gig
Both the front pages you posted are from the Daily Mail, not the Mail On Sunday. Not that it proves that they are particular fans of Braverman anyway as the daft Rwanda policy isn't even her idea.
I have no idea what the Mail On Sunday's veiws on Braverman are, nor do I care, I just don't think there is anything particularly shocking if they aren't too bothered about embarrassing her. It's a story that they couldn't easily ignore anyway - I guess it will be fairly prominent on all of tomorrow's newspapers.
Edit: Sorry my mistake those front pages are from the Mail On Sunday.