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Tin can be heated in the kettle
Or just eaten cold and washed down with hot tea. Spaghetti bolognaise cold from a tin is great, lovely and sweet. Bacon grill, not so much, especially with the layer of congealed fat around the outside.
Malt cake is a great call.
If she’s travelling in a canoe then she’s got a natural fridge, she’s got running cold water and just needs a bag.
You arrive at your destination to find your knot skills were not up to the task and your bag of goodies has floated off. 😆
i prefer a protein rich breakfast. hard boiled eggs and tinned fish would be my suggestion. not sure if a teen would be prepared to eat such a breakfast, though
My view is it’s better she has something with her that she will definitely eat, rather than something she won’t eat, any calories is better than none for doing a DofE expedition.
this is a very sensible approach. how about a big pile of peanut butter and jam sandwiches? or a sandwich that she likes if she’s not keen on PBnJ
@IdleJon Are you from the Pasty Marketing Board or something?? I mean, I agree that they are food _and_ container in one hit, but...
And yes, skydiving. You burn a lot of calories in a day with the walking and the falling so I generally get advice to eat something small between every jump cycle. I'm a natural snacker, but when I don't want to eat, I like having the option to sit down and actually eat a meal.
I really should try and see if I can eat a pasty in freefall. 60 seconds should be enough, but I'm not sure my visor would make it easy. I'd hate to drop it as well.
Edited to add: OP, I have an excellent book called "Moveable Feasts" that I was recommended when I was doing a lot of long distance trail running. It's relatively cheap, so maybe buy it for her as a present so she can experiment with foods she likes and fits the scenario?
I think it is this one: https://www.amazon.com/Moveable-Feasts-outdoor-enthusiasts-Cicerone/dp/1852845341
Thanks all for the suggestions. I've shared them with her and they didn't all get a screwed up face.
maybe she needs to learn to eat what she needs, not what she wants.
That’s an outdoor life skill. And you can change your tastes too. DofE is kind of about finding these things out…
@Chevychase - I'm guessing you don't have a teenage daughter! I think I was clear from the start that she would try to force herself to eat it and I was looking for more palatable suggestions. To me, working out other ways to get the nutrition you need rather than following a well trod path that you don't enjoy is a much more valuable life lesson than learning to suffer. Certainly, your tastes can change, but I think she's more likely to learn that from having options that mean she actually goes back and has more adventures in the future rather than endures it to get a bit of paper on her "CV".
The using the water as a natural fridge suggestion might work on some canoe trips - but this water is pretty gross, not fast flowing and (assuming they are camping where her brother did previously) the camp site is not actually in sight of the water (although its only 50 yds from it) and theres a busy path along the water's edge. It might be a more viable suggestion for silver/gold though as they tend to go somewhere a bit "nicer" for that!
Just a note to add to some of the suggestions, ~4000 calories ready to eat might be achievable for an overnight trip, but you'll have to look at alternatives for the Silver/Gold in that case as a tin/400g bag of anything is only about 400 calories, and clearly 40+ of those isn't practical. So if the rule is to be self sufficient then they'll need other options.
That being able to cook a nutritious and balanced 1-pot meal with stuff you can buy from the co-op is probably a more valuable life skill and relevance to enjoying the outdoors than developing a taste for mingin freeze dried food is a different debate.
Have a look at the covid edition of the GBDuro for inspiration as that was ~5 days self sufficient for most, and a fairly miserable looking last 48h as the last few tried to get from the Scottish border to JoG on nothing more than a malt loaf and Harribo.
Have a look at the covid edition of the GBDuro for inspiration as that was
They rode past my house...and all stopped at the bakers, chip shop or convenience store and all came out with arms full of supplies as they all said it was going to get sparse further up north! All 3 shops thought they'd hit the jackpot for 2 days.
@IdleJon Are you from the Pasty Marketing Board or something?? I mean, I agree that they are food _and_ container in one hit, but…
Oh, I wish! When I worked in the food industry it was in cheese and butter/spreads, and while I love cheese it's not a pasty! 😀
They rode past my house…and all stopped at the bakers, chip shop or convenience store and all came out with arms full of supplies as they all said it was going to get sparse further up north! All 3 shops thought they’d hit the jackpot for 2 days.
Not that year, 2021 they were fully self sufficient rather than self supported. They had to carry all their food supplies, bike spares etc the whole route.
Ah, it was 2022...
just give her whatever she will eat that is convenient to carry with minimal mess.
i rarely eat breakfast. if she fails because she didnt eat a 'full breakfast' (when her body isnt used to it) i`d genuinely make a formal complaint about hte assessor.
this sort of thing is about learning about managing your body effectively to complete the tasks required. If she eats more at the mid morning snack to make up for it and doesnt keel over from lack of food then all is good.
that siad when our kids go on camp with scouts they eat everything and anything offered regardless of the time of day as they are so knackered and hungry that literally anything looks appetizing! hahaha
I really should try and see if I can eat a pasty in freefall. 60 seconds should be enough, but I’m not sure my visor would make it easy. I’d hate to drop it as well.
Try to beat it down and catch it. 😁
If oats are off the menu, I'd suggest:
>Peanut butter/Nutella sandwiches or wraps
>Soreen or other malt/fruit loaf
>Pancakes
>Brioche
Or if she usually eats toast, can she make some? I've managed to toast bread on my jet boil before by sticking a fork into the side and hovering it over the flame at the right height.
Pre cooked sausages, boiled eggs and barm cakes. Make a breakfast sandwich.
Or the Soreen idea
A tin of rice pudding and a mug of hot chocolate (I imagine a splash of brandy would be frowned upon).
I think the fruit cake or ginger cake options are good too, especially with custard.
Even if you don't want to buy expensive freeze dried stuff you could take a look at Expedition Foods or Firepot etc. for ideas.
As an aside I reckon one of the issues regarding porridge is the sort of crap people think of as porridge - Ready Brek, Porridge Pots, etc. You need decent large oats to make something that doesn't end up a slimy mess.
~4000 calories ready to eat might be achievable for an overnight trip,
Just to pick up on this - the only thing i would cook would be the pasta for my tea. Everything else ready to eat and 4000 calories a day. It took a long time to come up with a menu that would remain palatable to us day after day. The most we carried was 5 days food. 1kg each per day.
However its rather a distraction from the original issue. In a canoe weight matters a lot less. Breakfasts she can have cans if they are insisting on a cooked breakfast - all day breakfast cans. Bread for the first day or two crackers or oatcakes afterwards. flapjacks are also good - a nice mix of short and long carbs and fats. Don't get too hung up on protein. IME / IMO you really don't need much and cheese thru the day is a good source
As you realise the key thing here is something she will like to eat or at least not make her boak
I think I was clear from the start that she would try to force herself to eat it and I was looking for more palatable suggestions.
Absolutely. No offence meant.
But if you read through the thread "more palatable suggestions" are basically "boatloads of sugar". Which, whilst a bit more calorie-dense and not harmful short term aren't exactly slow-release energy that you really need on long hikes (appreciate kayak here). And if the choice is between "unhealthy but like it" and "healthier but don't" then I personally fall down on the healthy side. Because food is about nutrition, not taste (and as you said, tastes can and do change - and even more than that - you can change your own tastes deliberately).
I struggle to suggest much myself without adding significant bulk as porridge (not porridge pots or ready-brek - proper rolled oats which haven't been blended to crap to effectively be a sugar substitute) is my own go-to. But I always take eggs with me when I'm camping. Half a dozen eggs, scrambled or in an omlette, are pure victory. I would disappear up my own @rse and take an avocado, some feta and make some avo and feta smash too. But then I'm a food snob and not prepared to compromise.
Yep. I will carry salad. 🙂
Cold, pre cooked pizza. Keep it in a plastic bag at the bottom of the sleeping bag overnight and it will be warm pizza.
If calories are wanted those invalid drinks are good. 400 cal in 200ml of slop.
1. Spanish omelette. Not cooked fresh but saved in box. Keep ok just like a sandwich (maybe not in august).
2. Mini bannock in the pan? Pre mix it and just add water and cook. Experiment at home.
Some of you can't wait read/don't have kids obviously
Easy option
Aldi - 8 pack of croissants individually wrapped
Nutoka or similar spread
Brioche with chocolate chips
Individual orange juice cartons
A secure zip-lock bag of Huel?
Just add water, or preferably milk (powdered milk?)
A fully balanced meal replacement.
@bikerevivesheffield:
Some of you can’t wait read/don’t have kids obviously
Easy option
Aldi – 8 pack of croissants individually wrapped
Nutoka or similar spread
Brioche with chocolate chips
Individual orange juice cartons
So, boatloads of sugar-y crap that doesn't give the long-burn energy required for a hike.
I can read. But I fall down on the "tough titties" side of the equation - food is about nutrition, not flavour. So eat what you need, not particularly what you want.
That's a better life-lesson to take from DofE IMO. And given that you can consciously change your own taste preferences then a lifelong relationship with food that revolves around proper nutrition seems to be a reasonable thing to push for given 75% of the UK population is overweight or obese.
That's why you teach kids, not just pander to their tantrums, no?
If its a canoe trip and weight isn't too much of an issue, PBJ sandwiches or PBJ crackers.. or eggs benedict on a muffin with cured bacon hollandaise dressing.
My daughter makes protein pancakes. Would be a doddle to knock up a mix in bags that you just add a bit of milk and cook on your trianga. Full of oats, protein powder and for added bonus taste of Belgian chocolate. Perfect.
A bit like this but my daughter uses the Belgian chocolate protein shake instead.
https://www.voomnutrition.nl/en/blogs/news/best-protein-pancakes-recipe-you-decide
Very nicely put @chevychase, some absolutely shocking suggestions on here. No wonder so many of the kids I see around could probably roll their way round a DoE hike
+1 for boiled eggs, perfectly portable and lots of protein--I like to take wraps too, and something like almond butter to spread on them. I'm not one for a stack of sugary stuff in the morning, but then I am a 55 year old male at risk of diabetes!
I have freeze dried dinners for breakfast, another for lunch and two for dinner.
you can get some really nice ones e.g.
As has been mentioned for a sit down breakfast at camp then it's got to be any type of wayfarer pack according to taste as these are generally made with kcals in mind and take up little space.
For food on the go then I go with little and often using mini Pepperamis and snack sized cheddar blocks for savoury (dirty food), and trail mix made up to suit tastes. Pepperamis and cheddar packs are a bugger for packaging/recycling but they're fairly calorie rich, and I can secrete them in multiple pockets / zip lock bags and they're easy to keep an eye on with regards to pacing fuel throughout the day until the evening meal.
Replacing fats, salts, sugars throughout the day along with hydration is key as well as finding something that half appeals in the first place (which for teens is usually salty flavour overload)
And i also recommend the moveable feasts book mentioned above as a great resource.
And i also recommend the moveable feasts book mentioned above as a great resource.
I've just ordered a copy from worldofbooks on eBay. Has to be worth £3.27 right?
That's a bargain!
Very nicely put @chevychase, some absolutely shocking suggestions on here. No wonder so many of the kids I see around could probably roll their way round a DoE hike
If you are suggesting there's an issue with childhood obesity I don't think the food that gets eaten on a DoE expedition is a contributing factor. In fact, I'd suggest quite the opposite:
- DoE participants by their nature need to be active, whilst we all think of DoE = Expedition its only one of the four elements and they must do a physical activity too. Which at Bronze = 1 hr a week for 3 months, and is expecting to see an improvement. The expedition is many hours of physical activity plus an overnight camp (which just to keep warm burns more calories than sitting on the internet criticising other people's food choices/tastes. They do at least a practice and the expedition, and usually a series of training activities leading up to it (day hikes etc). You don't need to be super fit and certainly people who are overweight do it, but the most obese will have a real barrier to entry.
- The aim of the DoE scheme is that people progress on through each of their levels (by the time you get to gold thats 2 four day "hikes" with all your kit, plus 6-12 months of weekly (1hr) physical activity. Their aspiration is that people who do these things are likely to continue with those sort of habits into adulthood. Having a shit experience, eating food you don't like, or that gives you too little fuel to enjoy the day is almost certainly not going to leave you with the sort of warm fuzzy feeling that means you are rushing back to do it again.
- I don't think any of her group are in any way obese and she certainly isn't. But I can guarantee she'd win an argument with you about whether body shaming "the kids you see" is the best way to address the causes of their obesity.
I didn't make any point about "the kids you see" @poly - all I made the point about is about the lesson kids need to learn being that food is about nutrition, not taste and that taste is something you can control and change. It wasn't limited to DofE - but a wider life lesson that kids need to learn. That 75% of the population are overweight and/or obese shows that a significant swathe of the population hasn't learned that important lesson.
I 100% understand the obeseogenic environment issues, the food industry/advertising/junk food availability crap. But nutrition isn't something completely outside of our control.
And whilst I don't think anyone in this thread was body shaming anybody - "shame" can be a useful emotion - especially when you realise it can be a prompt to take action over things that are within your own control.
Personally, I have many reservations regarding the body positivity movement. It's not "OK to be fat". There's no such thing as healthy and fat - and it's one of the (many) things seriously crippling the NHS - so it's not "victimless" either - that's resources being soaked up that could be used to treat unavoidable health problems elsewhere. Speaking as a previously fat person who used the shame I felt (and the ribbings I was on the receving end of) as motivation to lose weight I've lived what I've said above.
But, gently, the lesson about nutrition - food you need to eat - not food you like to eat - is an important one, and I stand by it. DofE is just a thing that can be used to reinforce that lesson.
If eating a bit of food you don't like is enough to put you off walking in the hills in nature or kayaking, then maybe you'd never really liked that stuff in the first place? (And I'd argue that if your lifelong love of nature hasn't been stoked by your parents long before you do DofE then DofE isn't going to be the thing that changes the game for you anyway).
Personally, I have many reservations regarding the body positivity movement.
Colour me surprised.
That's not really an argument @cougar. Telling obese people it's OK to be obese, when it's a serious condition that shortens their life, has impacts on the quality of what they've got, has knock-on effects to the quality of healthcare the rest of the population is able to receive and is something they can actually do something about if they're supported correctly and have the right attitude is all manner of wrong IMO.
We don't want people to feel bad. But we also don't want people to be ill. And if short-term feeling bad can be used as a lever to making health gains and changes to their bodies that give them a real reason to feel good then we should be shooting for that.
I'm not saying "be mean". I just fall down on the side of reality and personal responsibility (given the caveats that government really should take action on the "food" industry and their awful practices).
Does that make me a "bad man"?
I’ve just ordered a copy from worldofbooks on eBay. Has to be worth £3.27 right?
Great PSA, only 3 left now...