[Closed] STW Police officers

Looks to me like the police were after a couple of specific folk and went in to get them. There's no way of telling from this video clip who they were or what they had done to deserve such attention and whether or not the police action was justified. Perhaps we might find out more if they are subsequently charged with something.

What do [i]you[/i] think is happening in the video?

Don't blame the police, blame the politicians.

Just seems like a daft bloody move.. I find it really hard to believe that any target would be worth the mayhem that ensued 😯

The first thing that springs to my mind is that nerves got the better of someone..

Could have been an assault way before the camera shot and the suspect was trying to melt in but then spotted.

One (current) camera shooting angle doesnt always tell a whole series of preceeding events in a flowing event passed where hes stood.

Someone sprayed graffitti on the war memorial. I have no sympathy with anyone there.

Someone sprayed graffitti on the war memorial. I have no sympathy with anyone there.

😆 that's brilliant Hora

[quote=hora ]Someone sprayed graffitti on the war memorial. I have no sympathy with anyone there.Guilt by association?

What are they protesting anyway? The election has just concluded ...

Another question is what if someone deck an officer what sort of penalty will that person get? Police record? Criminal record? A10-gunnig?

🙄

It wasnt officially arranged was it? It was designed with antagonism in mind. Peaceful protests should be at least arranged. Cast your mind back to central London, anachist protests. Heres one I remember when I lived there:

[url= https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=mayday+protest+2000&client=ms-android-google&espv=1&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sboxchip=Images&sa=X&ei=FLJTVfv7H8PiUeiagfAM&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=360&bih=511 ]
[/url]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/may/1/newsid_2480000/2480215.stm ]

I've seen police snatch squads taking innocent people at demos just because there has been some trouble and they need some arrests.
And I've known some demonstrators who were just (word deleted) out for a fight.
So we shall never know

Just seems like a daft bloody move.. I find it really hard to believe that any target would be worth the mayhem that ensued

Mayhem? Ru nning away to avoid being kettled?
This seemed quite an effective and efficient bit of plodding.
Was it an training video?

not sure if you're joking reuben

The police will have had plain clothes officers in the crowd and covert video surveillance , one of these may have seen an offence committed and identified the offender.
There may have been a specific target they had identified from intelligence that needed arresting.
It looked like they went in for a specific person,

Easygirl, and others, don't waste your time. Yunki already knows what he wants to believe.

The truth is that police officers will not go into a large peaceful crowd and cause mayhem, unless they have a very good reason.
I've been in large scale disorder situations on numerous occasions, and it is very scary

yeah nice one CFH.. 🙄 I won't take offence though. Did you watch the video?

I was just shocked at the way a peaceful march (as is clearly evidenced in the video) could be subverted so dramatically and am just asking what may have caused the police to choose that course of action..
I've asked the police officers on the forum to contribute because to me it looked like it could have been a mistake, or an error of judgement.. The media reporting was certainly incongruent with the footage

I don't think I quite match up to the rebel of your fantasies Flash! 😆

Sorry, I didn't realise this really was meant only for police officers.

All are welcome Colin 😀

The truth is that police officers will not go into a large peaceful crowd and cause mayhem, unless they have a very good reason.

Hahaha good one!

Surprised Easygirl didn't blame everything on cutbacks. 8)

Surely this one is more relevant Hora?

[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8593158.stm ]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8593158.stm[/url]

57 seconds, you can see they they go in to arrest a masked 'peaceful protester' who they had been following and was trying to leg it

Yeah that's clear enough.. seems like a huge lot of fuss (and risk) over one anarchkid though?

I'm guessing that there were a bunch of 'anarchos' in that part of the crowd so they decided to split them off from the main part of the protest?

Is it really cold in London? Or do peaceful protesters always leave the house with scarves, hoodies and balaclava helmets? (And marine flares, cans of paint etc?)

are those items of clothing banned now or something?

Just seems strange that you would leave the house on a summers day to go to a peaceful protest carrying a balaclava

[img] [/img]

I'm sure there's a perfectly innocent excuse...

I didn't want to get into a debate with a wally over this, so I'm gonna err on the side of caution and choose not to engage with you ninfan 🙂

My question was about whether the removal of one or two naughty looking people warranted so much risk to public safety

Glad to see Bristol's event today proceeded with a little more decorum 🙂

[img] [/img]

Depends what he did doesn't it?

We don't see the context, we don't see why the police were following him before moving in to arrest him.

Just seems strange that you would leave the house on a summers day to go to a peaceful protest carrying a balaclava

Could have been a couple of welders on their lunch break

Hoods and masks... maybe it was this lot?

[url=

I once wore a mask on a demo, because I was skiving off school and I was worried my mum would find out 😆 Ah, what we would have given for guy fawkes masks back then.

In this case, the police weren't out simply to provoke imo- they weren't dressed for it.Whether it was a good idea is another question, I don't think you can judge without knowing the reason for the snatch. Now, when there's a peaceful protest or assembly and the police turn up suited and booted, that's when you want to watch out.

OTOH, perhaps we should all wear masks all the time now, in case we commit David Cameron's new offence of obeying the law.

Considering there was violence that day and a number of other problems it's hardly surprising the police wanted to arrest somebody.

Whats more ironic is a group called Truth and Clarity putting out such a blatant piece of one sided propaganda that would probably have Putin smiling.

Whats more ironic is a group called Truth and Clarity putting out such a blatant piece of one sided propaganda that would probably have Putin smiling.

There are times when the People have to assert their will directly and overrule the Government and assert the supremacy of the will of the People over the will of the Government.

There was a protest by the courts near our office the other day. Lots of local people supporting the guy, a couple of coppers keeping an eye on them.

Went back past 2-3 hours later, much bigger crowd, can't all have known the guy, quite a few at the back ready with masks, someone with a hard hat, Go Pro and a hi viz labeled "official observer". Much larger Police presence, everyone a little tense.

There is an element that are always seeking to provoke the Police and stick it to the man. The kind of asshat that defaces a memorial. I'd be happy for the Police to pull them out of my protest.

[img] [/img]
Think there are a bunch more of the same peaceful protesters throwing stuff at the police (Smoke bombs, traffic cones etc.)

You will always get a small number of protesters intent on causing mayhem and violence and spoil it for the VAST majority of other protesters.
Then when they are targeted by the police, dragged away by the scruff of their necks and locked up, they start crying and whinging.
They deserve everything they get

The truth is that police officers will not go into a large peaceful crowd and cause mayhem, unless they have a very good reason.

Ian Tomlinson, Blair Peach and other innocent folk who have died at the hands of the British Police might disagree (if they were still alive that is)...........

Some groups contain people who are complete aholes and the police are no exception.

So out of over 30,000 officers one leads to a death that should have been unavoidable. Daily they are dealing with the great, the good and the ugly. What an utterly thankless job it must be in the Met.

Parents tell their children to be good or the bobbies will come and get them/or they'll be locked up. When really they should be saying 'if you ever need help, the Police are there for you'.

Sick of reading/hearing grown men acting like they are 17 still smoking weed and talking about the bad Police/the Police state (enter any name here). Yunki, no offence but I get the impression that you are this.

Imagine doing a 12hour shift daily where you receive abuse, are scrutinised and filmed increasingly more and more. Would you do it?

To me it looks like they were going for one or two specific people. It doesn't make any sense- the majority of the set up is peaceful, surely it makes sense for the wider peace to be preserved than take on one or two offenders then cause a much larger amount of trouble?

It looks to me at least like the police weren't thinking properly.

Surely it would depend on who the targets were and what they had done? What if there was information that the targets were going to cause more trouble and perhaps put more people at risk? We can't infer anything from that video clip alone.

Sick of reading/hearing grown men acting like they are 17 still smoking weed and talking about the bad Police/the Police state (enter any name here). Yunki, no offence but I get the impression that you are this

sorry but I'm going to take offence

Are you on ****ing crack you arsehole..? you spout some deluded bollocks on here at the best of times..

I'm a law abiding family man in my mid 40s, I don't take drugs and haven't been on a demo since the criminal justice bill march..
I live across the road from a police station and bid good morning to the local coppers on a daily basis and like you, I raise my kids to see cops as people to turn to for help
My only issue with the police, if you could call it that is that I find it hard to understand people who tend to see things in black and white, and by the nature of their job I've always imagined that folk who sign up for the job must tend towards that mentality..
That makes them different to me, but it doesn't automatically mean a lack of respect
you really are a ****ing simpleton Hora

I posted about this video, because it shocked me. And to my eye it looks like a collossal balls up that was touted in the media as mindless rioting

😯 😯 crikey, hora seems to have annoyed the one person on here that i thought was "unannoyable" 😯 😯

waaaaaaaah 🙁

I feel a bit like I've kicked a puppy

Sorry Hora, I know you're not very bright, and I really should try harder to have more patience with you

All is well again in the world... 😀

Yunki be quiet and grow up.

😆

Then when they are targeted by the police, dragged away by the scruff of their necks and locked up, they start crying and whinging.

That reminded me of this:

See if you can spot the moment he realises the camera is on him

An Italian footballer would have been proud of that dive 😆

I've been on lots of demos.
🙂

You always get a minority willing to cause trouble.
But, take your blinkers of and you can see that applies to both sides.

Both sides hide their identity - badge numbers get removed and obscured on one side, balaclavas are worn on the other.
I've seen plain clothes police officers launch bottles at their colleagues and protesters ruin a peaceful demo by provoking the police.

Both as guilty as each other.

The them/us mentality in some of these posts feeds the problem.
The right to peaceful protest is a fundamental one.

Anyone on either side who doesn't get the 'peaceful' bit shouldn't be allowed to compromise this for the rest of us, police and otherwise.

Peace.

Both sides hide their identity - badge numbers get removed and obscured on one side, balaclavas are worn on the other.
I've seen plain clothes police officers launch bottles at their colleagues and protesters ruin a peaceful demo by provoking the police.

Both as guilty as each other.

+1

I went on quite a few marches/protests when I was younger. From my own personal experience I found the police easily have it within their power to avoid a riot with a light and friendly touch. I'm not going to claim they deliberately start them, but they know full well what will happen if they go in heavy handed with batons/horses/snatch squads/kettling etc. I'm not going to speculate on who decides which tactic is used on any one occasion, but I suspect there's more at play than just events on the ground.

The violence against protestors at the countryside alliance march. That I couldn't understand. It shocked me.

You always get a minority willing to cause trouble.

With the concealing of badges- that shocked me when I heard/read that too- I see both sides but you can't taint a whole force(s) because of elements that seem to be up for a ruck' too.

The Police have a difficult job and getting more difficult. I didn't know this but Gtr Manchester only has 8,000 officers to cover a population of 2.7m.

dazh - Member

I'm not going to claim they deliberately start them,

I am. Or if not [i]riots[/i], then disorder.

Example- a criminal justice bill demo I was on (ancient history this but just proves this isn't a new tactic) Kettled (we called it boxing, same thing) a subgroup of about 50 of us by blocking both ends of a narrow street, held us there for ages, very squeezed in- not pleassant but we were a very laid back group and quite self-policing, so nobody really flared up badly, it was just very boring for all concerned tbh... it just gave the impression they weren't sure what to do with us next.

But then when some guy needed a piss, someone (don't know if rank and file, or an officer) decided to go in heavy and pinch him for disorderly behavior. (obviously he didn't have much choice, since he wasn't allowed out for bathroom breaks) That created the flashpoint which turned a totally peaceful standoff into a very messy one. And of course, what was on the news was "protest turns violent, 20 arrests"

This could sound very anti-police, it's not supposed to be, just an account of how things play out- there were probably a hundred or so officers involved there and I bet 99 of them were good people just doing a very unpleasant job. But the sad reality is, when one or two decided they were fed up policing a peaceful protest, the 99 good people were the tool they used.

I didn't know this but Gtr Manchester only has 8,000 officers to cover a population of 2.7m.

8,000 was the highest its ever been hora (around 2010) current figures are heading towards 5,500

5,500?!

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/even-thinner-blue-line-greater-7929340

@ninfan, priceless. I see the photographer got a picture of the police "holding him down"

@yunki the original video it's clear the police when in for some specific individuals most likely as a result of a prior incident. Then the crowd reacted. As
@northwind says the police didn't have any riot gear so they weren't really expecting trouble

I can't say shouting f off back to eton is particularly peaceful either

I can't say shouting f off back to eton is particularly peaceful either

That's probably the funniest thing you've ever written on here. 😀

Page 1:

Someone sprayed graffitti on the war memorial. I have no sympathy with anyone there.

you can't taint a whole force(s) because of elements that seem to be up for a ruck' too

northwind says the police didn't have any riot gear so they weren't really expecting trouble

And they didn't really get it either.
I dunno where all this mayhem is that folk keep mentioning; I didn't see anyone getting thumped, no one got batoned or glassed, nothing was thrown, there were no riot police tapping their shields, no dogs or horses, and no claret.
It was all over, without escalation, within 5 minutes. There was one other bloke arrested but the film makers censored that by running some text across the incident at the crucial moment, so we'll never know why...
Good plodding!

Hora
I work in greater Manchester and it is scary how many police are on the streets patrolling now, and I mean really scary.
Especially on a night shift

I can't say shouting f off back to eton is particularly peaceful either

Heaven help us if theres ever a repeat of the riots

Yunkie wears glasses! Who knew!!, to be fair the fella would be slated round here for having a posh accent!! And posh folk swearing never really works !! 😉

I'm not sure why I watched it, but compulsion took over & I got to the end, that's when the text commentary announced that the crowd ran to avoid kettling.

How would an innocent peaceful protester be aware enough to run to avoid an aggressive police tactic if they had done nothing wrong to be worth running for?

2unfit2ride - Member

How would an innocent peaceful protester be aware enough to run to avoid an aggressive police tactic if they had done nothing wrong to be worth running for?

Er... Whether you've done anything wrong or not, being stuck inside a kettle sucks. Anyone who's seen it or experienced it knows to try and stay out of it- you're neutralised as a protestor inside the box, and you lose all freedom of movement including ability to leave. And maybe you do nothing wrong but a couple of other people you're stuck in with do, you can easily end up being treated as part of "the mob". Bearing in mind that kettling can be deployed as a tactic to turn protests messy, that's a very big deal.

Avoiding getting surrounded and trapped in is just sensible. (in the G8 demos, I chatted to a lady who was out shopping, decided to watch the demo for a little while, and got trapped in when the police moved)

See if you can spot the moment he realises the camera is on him
An Italian footballer would have been proud of that dive

Meh, can't see his feet - who knows what caused him to "fall" ?

The 2 blokes "holding" him ought to be embarrassed about failing to keep him upright though (unless, of course, one of them caught his leg and also tripped up ?)

2unfit2riot- have you ever witnessed any public disorder?
A football match?
A late night brawl?

If you are an innocent person in a large crowd, and a confrontation breaks out nearby, the fight or flight response kicks in..
If people are tussling with the police in that scary, claustrophobic environment, if you're innocent, the first thing you want to do is put as much space between you and the violent scene as possible..
As much as the pushing and shoving and people running in every direction is scary enough (the thought of falling over is not an option) it's the sound.. The very loud roaring and screaming
If you hear that, and it is coupled with people trying to escape it, the urge is very primal, and the urge is to get away from that sound.. the visual aid of the hi-viz jackets makes it easier to see where the trouble is too

unless you're up for some violence of course

Really? I used to go to proper violent meetings but they were 1980's football matches & although people around me were [s]getting knifed[/s] having a bit of difficulty I as a yoof who showed no interest in being involved, had no trouble not getting nicked, I think the police are just doing a job. Much like social workers, they will never get it right for everyone.

Avoiding getting surrounded and trapped in is just sensible. (in the G8 demos, I chatted to a lady who was out shopping, decided to watch the demo for a little while, and got trapped in when the police moved)

I was on Princes Street watching a handful of folk banging drums, blowing whistles and some (a very few) shouting at the police who had blocked the whole road off in front of them (and everyone else). I was standing well away from this but realised that the police were quickly massing around behind the spectators and got out quickly but they must have swept hundreds of anxious and confused shoppers and tourists up in the kettle. Then they kept them there for ages, while the real trouble makers were pulling cobbles out of the next street.

Anyway, I'm disappointed this wasn't about PC Hipsta..... although I've just seen that's been done so I'll leave it.

I have sympathy with officers sent to deal with these highly emotionally charged situations but it is after all an integral part of the job of "policing". I have no doubt that policing is a role that can only properly be undertaken by those with the correct temperament and attitude and it requires real bravery and professionalism to remain calm and not respond to provocation and escalate a volatile situation. Unfortunately there are some in uniform whose actions seem no more considered or antogonistic than the heated and emotional protesters they are responsible for controlling. Whilst underneath the luminous jackets they are humans and also subject to fear and adrenaline the need to effect an arrest (hooded person making off in to the crowd at start of fracas) and deal with the accompanying protest or complaint from others does not justify a swift and apparently eager resort to overwhelming, and frankly violent use of force by SOME of their number. For my part the most alarming part is how those securely detained well behind a police line are thrown to the ground with their hands cuffed behind their backs whilst others bundle on top of them. Seems unsurprising that onlookers become enraged and respond in equally tribal and violent manner despite the risk of arrest, assault and prosecution!

It is a difficult one. As police we are expected to maintain the Queens Peace, and sometimes force is used that the wider public may see as excessive, but is often justifiable in the wider context. We were criticised in equal measures at the last set of major riots for doing too much/not doing enough from both sides. I'm not suggesting there aren't people with a more relaxed attitude to violence in my job than myself, and sometimes i am not comfortable with the eagerness of some officers to arrest, but I can tell you it is a very fine line to tread, and the vast majority of people i work with are incredibly caring and hardworking.

Really? I used to go to proper violent meetings but they were 1980's football matches

Yes really 😆

If you were at 80s footie then you are not gonna be of quite the same disposition as a bunch of innocent leftie student types are you.. 🙄

sillybilly

(waaaah.. I miss the footie 🙁 )

Perhaps bringing back terraces and reducing gate prices would give the dispossessed spotty anarchkids a more focussed and enclosed outlet for their teen angst and raging hormones?

miketually - Member
Page 1:
Someone sprayed graffitti on the war memorial. I have no sympathy with anyone there.

Page 2:
you can't taint a whole force(s) because of elements that seem to be up for a ruck' too

As I posted earlier- the mob has previous form on this defiling that monument. I can't help my reaction dude.