[Closed] STW Locksmiths advice please

I'm a fan of a lockpicker on you tube called Lockpickinglawyer.
He can open anything, but best judge is how long it takes him and he's probably the best reviewer of locks out there.
If he classes a lock as yeah, ok lock, thats a really high standard 99.99% of people would have no chance of opening
Fill yer boots
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=lockpickinglawyer+euro+locks

Yeah easy to swap. If possible I would slip the existing one off and go down with it to your local supplier to confirm its the same, or obviously just measure it. Length depends on door thickness/type of furniture. Also they vary depending whether they lock both sides, thumbturn, etc.

No idea why a cylinder might cost 50 quid. Any reputable brand should be fine imo.

Edit : Are you absolutely sure it's the cylinder that's playing up and not the body of the lock? Once removed I would try the key in the cylinder several times to confirm that it is the cylinder which is playing up, before going out to buy a replacement.

Btw I don't think you'll need to take the handles off. Just remove the faceplate (don't lose the 2 tiny grub screws!) Undo the bolt that goes through the cylinder, and then slightly turn the cam on the cylinder with a key or thumbturn until the cylinder slips out.

key both sides. id thought it might be the lock mech playing up, something loose and with play hence the 'pull key back out'. the sand has meant the cylinder is now a real pain though. the fact that it might be more than just a cylinder does worry me, I don't want to take the cylinder out, find something breaks in doing so and then need an emergency locksmith. it this that has meant i've put this job off for the past year. I'm considering just getting a locksmith in to replace the cylinder/fix the lock...getting a tradesman in is not my norm....I tend to think of myself as handy and capable... but I've been in the position of helping the FIL try and secure a front door when the lock decide to give up on BH weekend a few years ago and I don't wish to be there myself!

You want a 3 star cylinder

Otherwise as Ernie says

https://www.toolstation.com/yale-platinum-3-star-euro-double-cylinder/p35564?utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=googleshoppingfeed&mkwid=s_dc&pcrid=515847200333&pkw=&pmt=&gclid=CjwKCAjwmqKJBhAWEiwAMvGt6PRUplyzBh-l57Kgr-K3c1tndlDKfG5MvQAVybeRcTlsFDnmI2a7PBoCczwQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
In 50-50 double key variant that's £47.98 alhtough partly toolstation excessive pricing, as it looks like i can find yale platinum elsewhere at 36 qui or 2 for £39

3 star, right, like the one above, with antibump and antisnap etc, like the one linked above.
rather than one like
https://www.trulypvc.com/locks-security/euro-cylinder-locks/standard-locks/yale-standard-euro-cylinder?number=YAL-1280-1007&gclid=CjwKCAjwmqKJBhAWEiwAMvGt6Amq9opR7UFHVtxS16_jkZ6dEyqEJECPYb16xyFcux_MdRRv200WfRoCA7AQAvD_BwE

I don’t want to take the cylinder out, find something breaks in doing so

I can't see why you would break anything taking out the cylinder. I take it that you've only got one lock fitted?

It's always good to have more than one lock on a front entrance door, mortice deadlock or even night latch, makes kicking the door in harder. Otherwise the easiest way to kick a door in is to hit it at the exact point of where the lock is.

I see what you mean by the price difference! I fit ironmongery but rarely buy materials myself.

its a composite door with the one lock operating errr. 2 big hooks, 2 sliding bars and the deadbolt...ie one of those lock mechanisms that runs right the way up the height of the door, so no where that i could fit a mortice lock or such. I guess i cold fit a surface mount bolt on the inside but don't see the point.

If you want a nice, secure lock, look at ABS Avocet locks. I splashed out and ordered keyed alike cylinders for all my doors so I just need one key. If you ever give one to the pet sitter they can't copy them without a key card, they are bump and snap proof too, I'm sure the lock picking lawyer could pick it but they have various features that would put off a chancer.

You need to take your old cylinder out to measure, it's easy, one grub screw and you might need to manipulate the key slightly to get the lock aligned with the door handle.

I've attended numerous break-ins through work, and have never come across a house that has had the lock picked or jemmied/broken off.
In all cases, the door has either been forced with a large bar, or a window has been broken to get in.
Expensive locks give peace of mind, but don't help with opportunist thieves who will smash a window and be in/out of the house in 2 minutes.

Expensive locks give peace of mind, but don’t help with opportunist thieves who will smash a window and be in/out of the house in 2 minutes.

As above in my area at least. By all means get a decent lock for peace of mind but you are not facing some master criminal who can pick locks in 30 seconds.
What you are up against is scumbags who throw any heavy item in your garden thru the window. They do this to avoid being caught "tooled up".

Timely thread - similar lock issues, but cannot get the screw holding the barrel in to turn so unable to remove old cylinder.
Anyone got any magic tips, apart from get a locksmiths in which I am very tempted now.

Also in future don't use oil. Get a 5B pencil and rub it on the key. Graphite is a "dry" lubricant perfect for keys and locks.

cannot get the screw holding the barrel in to turn so unable to remove old cylinder.
Anyone got any magic tips

I've drilled cylinders out in the past, a bit time consuming but not difficult IME. Always found the material to be relatively soft. Although I guess that there's the possibility of hardened steel being used these days rather than relatively much softer brass, there must some justification for 50 quid cylinders!

its a composite door with the one lock operating errr. 2 big hooks, 2 sliding bars and the deadbolt…ie one of those lock mechanisms that runs right the way up the height of the door, so no where that i could fit a mortice lock or such. I

Ah, not a traditional door setup then, sounds very secure!

I guess that the bolt holding the cylinder isn't hidden behind a faceplate then.

Why is there a key both sides btw, do you have to use a key to get out? Would you have to find your keys in the event of an emergency, eg a fire?

It's never a good idea to be fumbling about in the dark in the middle of the night looking for keys to get out, smoke inhalation can kill in seconds, apparently.

Should be a 5min job to remove the bolt and slide the euro cylinder out. Maybe one faceplate too if it wraps over the front. Then measure both inner and outer dims and order something online. Key outer, thumb turn inner would be better. Put the old one back and do the swap when the new one comes.

Why is there a key both sides btw, do you have to use a key to get out? Would you have to find your keys in the event of an emergency, eg a fire?

It’s never a good idea to be fumbling about in the dark in the middle of the night looking for keys to get out, smoke inhalation can kill in seconds, apparently.

Recently changed locks to keyed alike Avocet ABS jobbies and went for thumbturns for that exact reason.

Timely thread – similar lock issues, but cannot get the screw holding the barrel in to turn so unable to remove old cylinder.
Anyone got any magic tips, apart from get a locksmiths in which I am very tempted now

I used an impact driver (the type you hit with a hammer) to "loosen" the screw. Just make sure you use the correct bit

It's a modern door fitted admit 8 years ago iirc and the lock mechanism is secure but I thought nothing out of the ordinary these days. I also agree from experience a scrote will take a flower pot from the patio and smash the double glazed unit in the conservatory door and another pot to smash the double glazed unit in the kitchen door. However it's all about not being an easy target and an extra £30-40 on a better cylinder (better doesn't only mean more secure) isn't much.

Yes key needed inside if the door is locked with the key. Absolutely recognise the need to exit swiftly in emergency but also don't want a thin armed scrote or coat hanger type tool through the letter box letting themselves in. Years ago a lodger I had locked himself out and got in quite easily they way. On that occasion it was via a cat flap some distance from the locked door and he managed to turn a key left in the inside lock. So unfortunately it's not going to get a thumb turn on the inside.

Good tip, yes I should have tried graphite first.

Keyed alike doors all around the house seems convenient.

Thumbturn fan here. I find it worrying when I knock on a front door and hear people telling me they're just going to look for the key. Yes, love, you left them on the other side of the inferno.

Why is there a key both sides btw, do you have to use a key to get out?

Balance of risks isn't it between fire safety vs. security a thumbturn is a lot less secure by a letterbox or catflap as someone can reach/use a tool through and turn the thumbturn.

There's the forced entry of your insurance cover negated quite easily.

I'm sure most people don't think about it too hard.

Wouldn't personally be having a thumbturn on an external door where it can be seen through a window, smash a window in the door or next to it and dead easy to open.

If struggling to get the screw out and you don't have an impact driver, place the screwdriver in and turn it hard and while holding it with turn a good tap with a hammer to shock it.

Yeah, not all Euro locks are equal by a long way. Ive said it on here before, I tried to burn my garage down by setting fire to the wheelie bins, luckily neighbours put them out before it set the garage on fire (just, 3 were plastic puddles and the other 2 were extremely melted). Anyway fire brigade turned up, broke into the garage to check there were no hidden fires. Snapped the existing Euro cylinder without damaging anything else, even replaced it with a new one, so obviously something they do quite regularly. Made me realise they are the weak point. I also replaced all the house locks with keyed alike Avocet, they are about the best you can get, anti bump, anti pick and have two shear zones to make snapping them almost impossible. The keys are also impossible to copy. The cost stung at the time, but not as much as it would have doing after being broken into.

Yes a scrote could smash a window or kick a panel in but it's noisy. For the same reason I wouldn't have thumb turns, why make it easy for them to carry everything out, make them climb back through the broken window and hopefully cut themselves. Double glazed panels do require a bit of effort to get through both panes.

Yes, but as I said, a flower pot seemed to smash them easily and it seems neighbours did nothing about the noise. I have learnt that a house is not very secure, however as with bikes and bike locks, don't make it an easy target or invalidate your insurance.

Okay, 3 star Yale platinum or abs avocet it is I think

I got keyed alike with a thumb turn, got sick of the wife (and her ****ing mother) leaving the keys in the door on the inside, effectively locking me out all the time (had to remove all the internal door locks/keys as she'd get up in the night and lock everything, the amount of time I walked into the kitchen door in the morning).

Anyone who can get through the vicious narrow letter box and reach across 2 and a bit meters to turn the thumb thing would earn better money doing Mr tickle impressions, I can understand being wary depending on door set up mind.

That was the sort of distance my lodger reached a key on they inside and turned it from. I want there to see but he told me with glee it was quite easy.

You can get clutched cylinders which allow entry when a key is left in the inside.

That was the sort of distance my lodger reached a key on they inside and turned it from. I want there to see but he told me with glee it was quite easy.

Your lodger was Tim Jenkin and i claim my £5

Anyway fire brigade turned up, broke into the garage to check there were no hidden fires. Snapped the existing Euro cylinder without damaging anything else, even replaced it with a new one, so obviously something they do quite regularly. Made me realise they are the weak point. I also replaced all the house locks with keyed alike Avocet, they are about the best you can get, anti bump, anti pick and have two shear zones to make snapping them almost impossible. The keys are also impossible to copy. The cost stung at the time, but not as much as it would have doing after being broken into.

Oh, next time you have a fire the fire brigade are going to make a right mess getting in! Meanwhile your local thief is unlikely any worse off as he was always going to break a window or rely on someone forgetting to lock a door.

If the fire brigade need in, the front door is the least of my worries

Thumbturns are, in a lot of cases, inherently insecure from the outside as well. You can put a short pick down the keyway and engage the mechanism very easily in the less secure locks. Even then, if you can get at the thumbturn there are devices that can remotely grab them and open them.

Easiest way to stay safe is to keep the keys nearby in a place they can't be easily snagged. Job jobbed.

I was keen on the Avocet until I saw what a bawache the Yale Platinum was to open, it's a good lock and shouldn't be discounted. If you can get them keyed alike then that's the way I would go. YMMV

Sorry for the hijack OP but whilst we have the burglars in, do any of you know about 5 lever mortise locks? Do I just need the measurement of the end of the plate to the center of the keyhole (33mm)?

I’d like to change my front door lock but have only had euro cylinders before.

five lever mortise are much better than euro cylinders , however , composite doors and their mechanisms use them , five lever are housed in wooden doors in the jamb , if you’re worried bout security , a chain is a good extra while inside , anti bump and anti drill euro cylinders are much harder for casual thief , but as others have said , weak points are windows if door is too strong .
Much less to go wrong with five lever ,you also can fit a deadlock to a wooden door as extra , worst locks are yale nightlatch , one boot and the keep breaks away from frame , plus they lock peolke out when slamming in wind , i worked many years as a joiner for council ......

Do I just need the measurement of the end of the plate to the center of the keyhole (33mm)?

Yeah from the front edge of the plate, but it won't be 33mm, apart from anything else you wouldn't be able to get your escutcheon plate on - it would hit the doorstop.

For those who are worried about the security risk associated with outside access through the letterbox to the thumbturn I would suggest a letter cage, apart from anything else it saves bending down to pick up the mail off the floor, or a security hood. Avoid having front doors with any glazing, if that is an issue. And definitely don't have a cat flap installed in your front entrance door.

Yeah from the front edge of the plate, but it won’t be 33mm, apart from anything else you wouldn’t be able to get your escutcheon plate on – it would hit the doorstop.

Thank you, excuse my non technical terms but from the plate where the lock protrudes from when you turn the key to the center of the key hole is definitely 33mm.

On your front door?? That sounds like a crazily small lock for a front door!

The rebate in your door frame must be tiny!

Apologies for doubting your measuring abilities.

It’s probably intended for a wendy house or something. I’m finding nightmare after nightmare in this place, but it’s mine and I love it.

Its on a proper old school (probably 90’s) Everest aluminium front door. The doors and windows will be done after the roof, but id like to change the lock first as it’s starting to play up.

And definitely don’t have a cat flap installed in your front entrance door.

Yep definitely want your cat flap in your back door!

Everest aluminium front door.

Ah, sorry, I had assumed it was a timber front door. This is what happens when you comment on something which you can't see!

Yeah anyway how far the keyhole centre is from the edge of the door is what is critical. Good luck finding a 5 lever lock that size. And good luck finding one with the identical faceplate dimensions, I have no idea how to make alterations to an aluminium door to take a slightly different lock.

Are you sure you don't want to replace the whole door and frame with a timber/composite door/frame??

I’m very sure I do want to replace the door with something nice and traditional (1899 property). Just a small matter of the 14k to fix the roof first.

Unfortunately removing the waterfall in the living room takes priority over a new front door, hence the quick/cheap fix first.

If you want a nice, secure lock, look at ABS Avocet locks. I splashed out and ordered keyed alike cylinders for all my doors so I just need one key.

... is the correct answer.

Cheapest I've found them is Barnsley Lock and Safe. They've had several orders from me now.

Nine times out of ten replacement is a piece of cake and is as you describe. You shouldn't need to remove the handles even, it's a single screw and then putting the key in at about 20' to line up the internal pawl to extract it. You need the measurement from the centre screwhole to inside and outside edge, but it explains all this on the site I linked to.

Take the lock out, measure it, put it back whilst you wait for your order. Don't try to do it by sight in situ, it'll be wrong. Ask me how I know.

I've just measured it in situ but with an engineer's square so let confident, 55mm external, 45 mm internal. I also, in a bit of a garage tidy, found a new cylinder I bought years ago for something else....50/40 .. Typical.

Thanks for the link cougar

I’ve attended numerous break-ins through work, and have never come across a house that has had the lock picked or jemmied/broken off.

I thought snapping eurocylinders was the most popular way in (far easier than picking). I do see quite a few doors which have had a eurocylinder retrofitted and have about 30mm of lock housing sticking out the front door! You could probably snap those one with a good kick.

When we moved into our place 10 years ago I swapped the mishmash of standard euro cylinder locks for keyed alike ABS avocets.

I was quite relieved when I recently discovered LPL's review of them and it's one of his longer videos.

Being a geek, LPL's videos inspired me to teach myself lock picking. Took me one week and really not many hours to be able to reliably pick all of the old cylinders. I doubt that many criminals actually pick locks, but I was still relieved that I'd bothered to switch them.

I’ve attended numerous break-ins through work, and have never come across a house that has had the lock picked or jemmied/broken off.

yup, its usually a brute force entry by forcing the door open with a crowbar or screwdriver. Not sure breaking windows is a thing these days though, its a hell of a loud and attracts neighbours.
Im not really a fan of these pvc affairs, but really because im more the traditionalist, big solid wooden door, mortise bolt lock type, mainly down to having made a number of them- 2" oak, pretty solid stuff.
That said, the police prog of them trying to smash their way into a drug dealers house shows they sometimes are defeated by pvc doors in that that type of door bounces rather than succumbs to their entry method of bashing it with a tool designed to bash in doors. If the police have problems, and obviously theres no worry of neighbours and the like, that must be a strong testimony as to the security of them against someone trying to gain entry by as much stealth as possible.
Maybe the LPL stuff is more about the fact its just a lock, and he a lock picking expert, or possibly its mainly about padlocks on premises in the shadow of night.

I thought they used a sleeved chainsaw for modern composite doors and just cut down the middle of it.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/watch-welsh-police-use-a-chainsaw-to-enter-a-house-in-an-early-morning-raid-a3215531.html

Thumbturns are, in a lot of cases, inherently insecure from the outside as well.

I have been in a full on bonafide fire brigade situation. We're talking "no escape down the tenement stair smoke coming through the backs of skirting and light switches, just sit and wait for the Big muscly firemen to sweep me up in their arms and carry me down the ladder" type fire.

I would leave my door wide open with a big sign saying "steal my shit" on the street before I would ever live anywhere you can lock yourself in.

just sit and wait for the Big muscly firemen to sweep me up in their arms and carry me down the ladder” type fire.

Happened to a friend of mine.
He got home well drunk, lit some candles and when went to bed forgot about them and he thinks when shutting the door the draft knocked one over.
He's in bed, naked, the GF also naked and said early morning the bedroom door flies in a a couple of firemen scooped them out of bed saying. Time to go mate, you're house is alight 😆

Thanks again Cougar for the suggestions of lock and Barnsley locks to supply. Arrived this morning, fitted in under 5 minutes and door working. It took less time to fit than it's been taking to unlock the door of late!

I had someone replace a cyclinder in a new door we had fitted as it was faulty and I don’t think he even stopped walking when he returned to replace it after the first check - it was so fast to do!

Result, glad you're sorted.

Eurocylinders are usually a piece of cake to replace so long as you have the key. Occasionally the retaining screw is buried inside the door frame and a big job breaks out. I only replaced one of the two locks in my patio doors because of this, the second door gets opened the square root of never because we have Escape Cats so there was little point in disassembling the door to get at it.

Just found LPL's teardown of that lock.

17 minutes.😲

17 minutes.😲

Its down to how long it actually takes him to pick the lock open, which in this case is about 5 minutes.
Thats pretty much a record for LPL, I've seen his vids of it taking under 20 seconds.

It will be drinks all round for Avocet HQ design team

Its down to how long it actually takes him to pick the lock open, which in this case is about 5 minutes.

Bosnian Bill did a Yale Platinum in 6 minutes, similarly impressive.