[Closed] Struggling to deal with the Black Dog.

Welcome to the squad. I don't have much to say other'n that obviously you're not alone... And I resisted meds for literally years and now it's one of my biggest regrets, I've found citalpram not to be a happy pill or a cure but just basically a difficulty slider, depression and anxiety basically took away my ability to own my own life and the little white pills did just enough to take it back.

We can get better

Try the meds - the side effects are horrible until you get over them.  Been on Duloxetine for about 3 months now. I was getting snappy etc. Worries over on-going pain (accident- car hit me on bike 3 years ago - broken spine), debt issues having been off work and massively increased travel costs, and work stress.  Despite being bed ridden a for a week, and not feeling great since, it's given my mind a break, and has helped the pain (it's prescribed for back pain).  I'm slowly sorting things out and not snapping as much. Wife mentioned I'd not got angry when cut up in the car this week - having used to commute on the bike, it's just as bad in 1600kg of car.

Be prepared to feel like shoot at first - take to the bed, I did for a week.  One of the side effects of duloxetine is lost appetite - I've lost all the weight I put on after breaking my spine, but it's left me tired and not sleeping well. Plus, as others will say, it can affect sexual function, both libido and 'finishing' - you won't.  That said, it's evened out my moods, but it takes time. The side effects aren't great but it's helped.   I'll be coming off it once my legal case get's sorted out, but I have to do it slowly.

Hi Dirk

I was about to put up a thread about how I can’t cope and at the end of my tether then I come across this.

I now find myself being slightly more alive and wanting to help you.

Medication, I think, is the last thing anybody should do.

It goes on your records, that every organisation can see, takes years to work, then when it doesn’t, takes years to come off.

Talking to friends is hard as no one wants a depressed mate (I know they will be cool but hard to burden them)

Talking here has really helped me with certain situations.

I hope nobody here has labelled me with my little issues, and I’m sure you will get the same helpful advice and understanding.

Mark

Talking to friends is hard as no one wants a depressed mate (I know they will be cool but hard to burden them)

I’m really sorry that you feel like this. You should never feel like you’re burdening your mates - that’s what true friends are for!

[i]Medication, I think, is the last thing anybody should do.[/i]

That's just as a bad advice as saying don't bother seeking advice from your doctor.  Medication has a stigma, doesn't mean its a poor choice.

And the only thing on your 'record' that would be reportable to other employers is a factual based reference to amount of sick leave taken, and I doubt even this makes it onto a reference any more due to potential reprisals at a later date.

You're not alone in feeling like this, or in always having an ear on here. It has helped to just be able to offload the stresses of life.

Find someone to talk to, it can get better, but also you have to fix what is causing it - easier said than done on some of your list.

What about CALM?

Welcome to the squad. I don’t have much to say other’n that obviously you’re not alone… And I resisted meds for literally years and now it’s one of my biggest regrets, I’ve found citalpram not to be a happy pill or a cure but just basically a difficulty slider, depression and anxiety basically took away my ability to own my own life and the little white pills did just enough to take it back.

We can get better

Northwind has pretty much described my situation too. The tablets have enabled me to regain a bit of confidence and start exercising again. I’ve been on them for nearly four years and have a plan to start weaning off them come spring. I suffer with SAD so attempting it now would be silly.

I too have a job I don’t like, but it means Mrs F can stay home with the youngest. As with you OP I moved away and have found it difficult to make new friends. It’s tricky with work and family commitments. If you ever want to vent or chat with someone who can understand what you’re going through just let me know.

Take care

Every time these threads appear, I am amazed at how many of us have these issues but not surprised anymore about the level of support there is from the STW collective.

Northwind +1.

mark d, obviously you have your experience and that is as valid as anyone elses.  For the same reasons I resisted medication for a long time - only to find it was the key to giving me the ability to use counselling effectively.

Without the medication, I could not get enough mental space, peace or energy to use counselling to my benefit.  With it, I began to take some steps forward.

In terms of going of years to work and years to come off them, this wasn’t my experience.  I started to feel a positive effect after a few weeks.  In terms of stopping, it does require tapering the dose down over a period of time.  But from 20mg per day you can do this in around 3 months without side effects.

Hope this helps, dirk.

I have to echo what Spooky & Jamj said about anitdepressents. Further, they don't take "years" to work, although it can be a bit trial & error finding the one that you respond to best.

Doesn't have to be a long term thing either. I've been on antidepressants 3x now for a few months each time - long enough to help me start  getting myself together enough to tackle things without them. (A bit like bump starting an old car, if you like).

They're just one of the tools available to you to get over this. And you will.

Can't help with personal experience, but from second hand people I'm very close to the meds can make a MASSIVE difference, in much the way Northwind has decribed.

Where are you in the country? If you're anywhere nearby (I'm in Hull, ride the Moors / Dales / Peak quite a bit) then I'm happy to meet up for a ride / walk / cake / whatever and have my ear bent (as said above, that's what friends are for, I've done it for folk I've known for years and I work on the principle that other bikers are just friends I haven't met yet until proven otherwise).

On the meds front, they take around 6 weeks to be effective. Sometimes there can be a danger in the middle of this when you feel more effective but not quite there, that's where the suicide risk lies. A colleague did just this, so talk as well as take the drugs. At this point start riding your bike, walking the dog, going for a run to get the endorphins going and some out doors time.

If you're really struggling on one drug ask to try something else, there are many alternatives and your brain chemistry may not like citalopram but fluoxetine may be the dogs danglies.

Good luck and we'll listen if you want to give Mrs Pitt74 some respite.

dont suffer with it myself luckily but i do have family members suffering.  i cant really add anything other than a recommendation for a book an old mate of mine has written and is apparently doing quite well on amazon.  he was on the brink of suicide at one point and turned his life round and wrote this book, hes also become a bit of a therapist on this subject.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dying-Be-Happy-Embracing-Finding-ebook/dp/B07HLLR4WD/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1538726197&sr=1-1&keywords=dying+to+be+happy+embracing+death

its certainly not a shameless plug, ive bought it myself for my family after recommendations, although they havent read it yet so cant comment on how good a book it actually is.  might be helpful, might not, but i wish you all the best.

Thanks for all the support - I see I'm not alone in this.

How have those who have had counselling found it? Part of my problem is I'm not much of a talker and find it difficult to talk about me in general.

Managed a few hours sleep last night which is the most I've had in a while - woke up feeling like I had a hangover though (haven't had a beer for a few days though). Still feel tired but in a different way to usual.

Find your own counsellor check out the bacp website for a list. Attend an initial appointment and see how you get on. I'd try to see a physcodynamic counsellor, GP one might be CBT/shorter term conditions.

Go easy with the booze! At least until the meds are doing their thing. (The odd glass/pint isn't going to hurt but a session won't help).

It's a slow process, it took many years to get to this point for you. It won't clear up in a couple of weeks.

I didn't get talking therapy, my GP is a specialist in this area so his appointments were longer than normal when I saw him. Otherwise it was take the pills and exercise. Binners wrote an item for the mag which is in the archive here

So it all got a bit much over the weekend – was supposed to meet a mate for a ride Saturday morning but after a couple of hours sleep I was in no fit state.

Phone them, go for an easy ride. A good mate would understand and it may be a chance to offload. Where do you live? I know a number of people on here have offered to help people in the past. It should stop suprising us every time one of these threads pops up.

If there are definite things that are causing you problems then I too would try to look at those rather than resorting to meds. They treat the symtoms not the problem. But as others have said, they can sometimes give you the control you need to solve the problems so if you think they'll help then discuss them with your GP to understand the pros and cons.

If you are having little luck with your GP does your company offer anything. BUPA membership will get you help almost immediately. Many other large coorporations have membership of organisations that you can phone.

While you are waiting I would suggest

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Happiness-Trap-Pocketbook-Russ-Harris/dp/1472111826

The amazon description makes it sound naff but I read it alongside ACT sessions. The ideas help you get over the feeling of hopelessness/ dispair. And if you work out what values you have give you something constructive to improve your mood.

Also maybe some of the ideas here could help. Some may resonate, some may seem patronising.

https://www.unstuck.com/advice/21-tiny-ways-to-stop-feeling-hopeless/

The thing I would suggest you keep in mind is that you are not alone or unique in what you are going through. Others will understand, they may have had to deal with similar things themselves. It will get better.

STW is a good place to vent.

How have those who have had counselling found it? Part of my problem is I’m not much of a talker and find it difficult to talk about me in general.

Problem I found is the stuff offered varies by postcode and GP. I got "holistic" counselling which I didn't feel was really the right thing. It looks too much at root causes back to childhood etc. Those are just what define you in my opinion unless there's really some incident of issue. Understanding what is going on and management of it is more important I feel, combined with sorting out anything in your current life that is causing problems. Making some life changes can make a big difference, more than just talking about your past.

Loads say CBT is worth a shot though. I never had that on offer.

Meds - maybe. If it's the first thing offered, consider it carefully. Some GPs (and my experience) jump straight on the drugs as it's an easy answer but not the solution and may even drag things out. But some are in a position where they need immediate help so they may work for them.

Sounds like the job situation is worth addressing. Change of job or even career. Okay I come from a world of IT where jobs barely last a few years and onto the next one. Those where I've not been kicked out, I've been bored of and stressed about after a few years and really have to push myself to move on.

Riding - group rides? Official ones or just find a bunch of like minded people going out for a ride. Do that regularly or find several groups and swap about. I've been amazed at the pool of people I get to know from riding, and also learn a lot from it. About bikes, trails, new places. I've done trips I'd have never done before without the social side of riding.

Go easy with the booze!

I would avoid it completely to be honest. Not the best thing if you’re already feeling low. Can be counterproductive when you’re taking meds in my experience too.

Medication, I think, is the last thing anybody should do.

It goes on your records, that every organisation can see, takes years to work, then when it doesn’t, takes years to come off.

Sorry, but that is complete dross. My wife had some severe "black dog", went on the pills for 12 months which gave her time and clarity to identify part of what the cause was, and have the ability to fix it. She then came off them gradually over about 2 months and has suffered no ill effects at all. It does not go on any kind of record bar the time you needed off, it would be a breach of patient confidentiality of it did.

I have no doubt that medication is not the right option for some people but it is for some, and can be very helpful indeed, and that kind of comment is not helpful at all.

the weeks of little sleep, pressure of work, still not dealing with the loss of my Mom and trying to support my Dad where I can, lack of motivation, putting on weight, comfort eating and increased beer intake.

before you go for meds consider that that list - little sleep, pressure of work, loss of mum, etc - is enough to tip you over to feeling like that without anything else being wrong.

I would first look at what you can do about relieving pressure of work, especially as you likely to be working less productively because of it.

once that is more sorted then look at if you need meds as well.

And not sure the term Black Dog can be used nowadays, if "Whiter than White" is wrong.

^^Wha?

People who have gone down the route of drugs. Did you just go with GP recommendations, is there a sort of order of what they would be likely to try first, and so on? Are different drugs likely to treat different symptoms (anxiety/panic attacks vs lethargy, for example) better?

I have been in counselling a couple of times and it does help but i have a lot on my plate at work, at home and with ageing parents and I am only just coping.... and I feel at a tipping point (my wife says I've crossed it already) where if something else goes wrong I don't think I will. And yet my comfort is overeating, I've said this before and had some great help from and by running chub club. But guess what, I'm half way back to my heaviest from my lightest and despite best intentions first sign of trouble and the cakes and crisps come out, and I hate myself for it, and the fact my suit won't do up, and.....

And while i've avoided drugs till now, I wonder if it might be time... but my wife's friend who went on them and it helped her, said the side effect was significant weight gain, and if that was to happen to me I think it'd only make me feel more of a waste of space.  Would a GP listen to that and account for it (duloxetine?) or it might be a case of something else enables me to not do the comfort eating? Experiences (good or bad) with various types so when i go to see them then I can ask the right questions?

Where in the country? If you are down Bristol/Somerset way then always up for a ride/pint/chat.

Another one here! I’ve had several episodes of severe depression and anxiety over the years. I look after myself- healthy diet, not much booze, lots of biking, seeing friends, etc but sometimes all that’s not enough.

I’ve tried various different antidepressants, various counsellors, CBT and what’s worked best for me was a fantastic counsellor who I really clicked with a couple of years ago, plus fluoxetine which I’ve been on since Feb this year. I’m going to stay on it over the winter as I get SAD too.

you are definitely not alone!

People who have gone down the route of drugs. Did you just go with GP recommendations, is there a sort of order of what they would be likely to try first, and so on? Are different drugs likely to treat different symptoms (anxiety/panic attacks vs lethargy, for example) better?

I had the first drug the Dr prescribed, but did a little research and most importantly, took professional guidance from Mrs JAMJ who is a psychiatric nurse.

After a few weeks - seems to be about 4 for me, things like increased anxiety fall away.  I do think I am more tired when taking them - but to the extent I have experienced, it seems a small price to pay.

if anyone wants to talk via PM - I’m always willing to.  Also, if anyone in/near Brum needs a chat - the kettle is on.

Dirk, I haven't read all the threads so may be repeating stuff but...In May I walked out of work as I could see no point being there at all. Crap task in an office with no crack at all. Went to docs, broke down in tears feeling dreadful. She prescribed tablets and fresh air and exercise. Also referred me to First Step counselling. Never took the pills but took 5 weeks off work, cycled, walked and motorcycle loads, got tons of jobs done and felt much better. The counselling was an on line thing after an initial phone chat and it gave me useful tools to help with moods and thoughts.

Would deffo recommend it. And as for work, completely disregard it until you feel right. Life and loved ones are all that matters.

Best of luck mate. You will get through it!

First drug worked ok but Mrs S complained that sex went on too long. (A side effect is desensitisation everywhere and the orgasm response gets damped too). Went back to the GP and the second drug damped the depression while allowing a more 'normal' sex-life.

The big book of pharmaceuticals has lots of options for the GP.

Time off work may well be several weeks. Don't rush back and remember that mental health is covered by DDA.

Another one here - variety of things came to a head 3 years ago. Originally resisted the idea of meds as I was worried about side effects, but my GP was excellent, persuaded me to try a low dosage of Citalopram, and although it took a few weeks to kick in it really helped - took the edge off the worst of it while I had counseling and CBT.

Just finishing with the meds now, been a long road but things are turning round. They will for you too.

hang in there OP, hugs, love and good vibes for you, you will feel better and enjoy life again

Thanks again all - will go through the links posted and look at those.

I'm Cannock based so thanks for the offers of rides/chats.

Reading your original post it sounds like you need a change of job/career...and there are always opportunities out there - use your time off to think what you'd really like to do -. That's not to discount the value of counselling and the right meds for short-term to medium-term use.

<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">It took me I while to admit to myself that I'm the kind of person who needs change/variety in my life, especially as my dad wanted me to settle into a stable career. I just change jobs/careers every 10 years or so and the ideal. I get down when I'm bored, but I am not naturally a depressive personality.</span>

For a while I felt guilty about needing to change so much, but I think frequent career-changing/retraining will become the default in our Brave New World.

Enjoy your time off, chill, and good luck.

Black dog is a bitch, and not everyone recognises this unless you’ve been there

i had a real bad episode a number of years ago, broke down in tears in my bosses office and just bawled my eyes out for 30 minutes, daft thing was it was a real minor non issue that tipped me over the edge, he listened, said nothing and once I had stopped crying told me to get to my Drs and don’t come back until ready ( guess I was lucky there) , today I feel for him as his embarrassment was palpable in hindsight as he didn’t really know how to handle it.

Went to my GP and broke down again, again looking back I got lucky there, she listened, talked through options and we settled on a mix of Citalopram and counselling ( paid for by work ), I stayed on meds for about 2 years, something I think worked for me.

Citalopram took about 4 - 6 weeks to kick in, but worked in so much as it stopped the dreadful lows I suffered from and I was very thankful for that,

the reason I asked to come off it was because it also stopped the enjoyable highs, and more than once I caught myself thinking “I should be enjoying this,” but was feeling nothing.

the one thing that counselling did was to help me identify triggers that set off the lows, today, many years later I spit them and usually manage to put strategy’s in place to avert them, not always though and occasionally I still burst into tears for no obvious reason.

guess what I’m saying is don’t be afraid to talk to your GP, try meds, try counselling, and post on here, that’s one thing I regret not doing, and I am in awe of some of the folks who have been through far more than my imagined problems and I can’t say how grateful I am to everyone last one of them.

I’ve been having counselling for a couple of months and diagnosed with general anxiety disorder, depression and PTSD relating to my best friends death from Leukemia a couple of years ago. I wish I’d got help sooner.

been on Escitalopram for a couple of weeks but having some strong side effects including heightened heart rate when attempting to exercise. Currently waiting to see a doctor as had some convulsions and heart palpitations last night. These drugs are strong it seems. I’m going to try to see if I can stick with them though - it’s not helpful to generate a sense of anxiety in people with anxiety about taking medication for their anxiety and the stuff above about it “going on your record” made me cross.

Hope everyone’s ok this weekend.

Bit of an update on this.

Have been off work for a week now and starting to feel like myself. Not thought about work and spent the week having some time to myself and getting some fresh air.

Started building my bike, been to Wales - Lake Vyrnwy and walked part way up Snowdon. Been on a couple of rides and off to Llandegla tomorrow with a mate - screw the weather.

Sleeping better but have been getting head aches during the day - think this is more of a tension release than anything else.

Got some jobs to do around the house next week which I'm feeling motivated to do now.

Have also 'reconnected' with my wife & kids which sounds harsh but realised how distant and off I've been with them for a long time.

Off to see the Dr again next week - thinking of asking for more time off and discuss trying meds.

Thanks again for all the positive posts.

Meds didn’t work for me, albeit a few years ago. They made me feel poisoned and more miserable. These days riding my bike is my drug, I had never read that binners’ article -brilliant. Exactly that.

good luck op .unfortunately, the darkness, as my missus calls it, makes us close off. Making friends &maintaining relationships becomes v hard.  This place is good therapy. Imo.