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Ok so slightly after the horse has bolted but after my wife finding the back door kicked in yesterday I think we are going to be in the market for something a little stronger. Current door is uPVC with plastic lower panel and glass upper. The (nike shoe) wearing scrotes popped the whole lower panel out with 2 kicks. Despite the repair guys assurance that the door is not damaged and is as strong as before neither of us now trust it. This type of door looks to me to have a inherent design flaw in the way the panel is fitted which means they will never really stand up too much. So are there any STW recommendations. A quick bit of googling seems to suggest that a composite door offers the life advantages of uPVC, but without the inherent weakness of the current door (looking at something like [url= http://www.yaledoor.co.uk/ ]http://www.yaledoor.co.uk/[/url]). Any view on these?
I appreciate if someone really wants to get in no door is going to stop them, but would like something in place that puts up more resistance in the hope of putting someone off (or forcing them to go through glass with the hope of a nice bit of red DNA evidence being left).
I've had cause to break through (or get broken through for me) quite a few doors, and can confirm that the all in one composite UPVC stylee ones are indeed right bastards. Aluminium sliding patio doors on the other hand, you may as well leave open, having neatly boxed up your valuables for the scumbag's convenience...
That is good to know, thanks.
From the ease it looks as though the current one went through it would appear to be in the same category as the alloy sliding door!
Out of interest, why are the alu patio doors so easy to open? Do dead locks on the help?
They lift off the runners really easily don't they?
speak to a good local double glazing firm - not one of the national chains with salesmen. I know a v. good one in southampton. they will be able to advise you on the door choices. It can be quite complicated. but composites seem to be the recommendation these days.
thomthumb, Who's the Soton one, would be ideal since that's where we are.
Finding good trades people is one of the things I hate doing, so hard to know if they are good or not!
^What nixie said, always seem easy to lift up and away from the runners, like a big catflap. Deadlocks might help, but depends on their positioning.
Im a fan of wooden doors tbh, had no luck kicking mine in when my wife locked us out for the umpteenth time 🙂
Having said that I prefer wooden window frames with nice double glazed units to pvc too.
Ta, thats the place next to Manpower iirc. Will take a look.
I like the idea of wood, however want to keep the multi point lock and better hinges of the uPVC type. I've not yet found a wood door that offers that.
Composite, as theyre made in one piece, and most local councils fit them, as opposed to woden or upvc.
Remember if they cant get in through the door the window will be next.
We've recently had a composite door fitted. Not cheap (£800 fitted all in) but it looks like wood, it's easy to clean, and by god it's solid!
I reckon you'd rip the frame out before the door caved in!
Remember if they cant get in through the door the window will be next.
Yeah, am thinking though if the door will resist for a minute or two they may kick it hard enough to set off a trembler sensor on the alarm. My hope is that if they set off an alarm when they aren't in yet this may cause them to think twice. Also smashed glass may equal cuts and blood.
I reckon you'd rip the frame out before the door caved in!
Sounds like the effect I'm after.
Door tough...hmmmm wheres an easy window....
Door tough...hmmmm wheres an easy window....
When one of our little girls managed to lock us out I was surprised at how easily a window can sometimes be taken out - a screwdriver to the uPVC frame soon had the external beading off. (Un)fortunately our window unit was actually bonded to the frame but apparently it is quite common for them not to be and then it is a quick job to lift it out.
my wife finding the back door kicked in yesterday
chortle.
chortle.
child.
Wood door all the way with dead bolts fitted. If you go for another UPVC door mate make sure you ask for an anti snap device fitted around the cylinder. Any decent company will know what i'm referring to.
window unit was actually bonded to the frame but apparently it is quite common for them not to be
Should be attached to the frame, externally beaded windows will use window security tape on the inside, easy to remove from the inside with a Stanley, almost impossible to remove from the outside without smashing the glass. It's also needed to ensure appropriate compression is applied to the extenral gasket.
Might also want to consider a true composite window or door, aluminium external, real timber internal, get the benefits of UPVc locks etc. with real wood internal / maintenance free external. Very pricey though.
Should be attached to the frame, externally beaded windows will use window security tape on the inside, easy to remove from the inside with a Stanley, almost impossible to remove from the outside without smashing the glass. It's also needed to ensure appropriate compression is applied to the extenral gasket.
If the windows are externally beaded presume the easiest way to see if this is the case is to remove beading and see if I can remove the glass?
be aware that it can actually be easier to remove the door frame than the door on a poorly installed composite door. It is only a UPVC profile screwed to the brickwork.
When one of our little girls managed to lock us out I was surprised at how easily a window can sometimes be taken out - a screwdriver to the uPVC frame soon had the external beading off.
No modern DG should be externally beaded though.
As above though, usually most windows are just screwed into the bricks so all you need to do is go round it with a reciprocating saw and take out the screws and you just pull the whole window/door out of the wall. Or, as with one of my previous places of employment, just life the roof tiles, pull up the wood and go in through the roof.
You won't stop a determined theif.
You won't stop a determined theif.
This I accept, just want to make it a little more difficult and perhaps stop the opportunist thief. Plus if they tried to come in at night when we were here then a stronger door might give us the extra time to realise what's going on and react in a better way (like get out of the house and call police).
I had a composite door fitted recently, it's great, right up to the point that you start worrying about the next weekest point, then the next etc etc.
Mind you I quite sure they are going through the front door now 😉
I would recommend grpdesigns.co.uk to anyone, they were extremely professional.
composite door here, it was about 800 quid with a window panel. feels so much more secure than the old wooden one. well solid. recommended.
right up to the point that you start worrying about the next weakest point
Its never ending I guess, our front door is a similar design as the back, but is more exposed so hopefully not such an obvious target.
We have been burgled a couple of times and my view is that once they start kicking the door or window in then they will probably get in or damage things so much that you have to claim on insurance, premiums go up and all in all it costs you a bloody fortune for years to come. We put up a security camera to try and deter people and looking at getting an infrared beam alarm. Basically if they come up to near the back of the house and break the beam then the alarm goes off and is so bloody loud they can't stay in the area. I know you can get commercial versions just need to find a cheaper domestic version
No modern DG should be externally beaded though.
Why not? There is no security issue, that was a sales line put around by various salesmen some years back. The foam tape is more than adequate for retention of the glazing material. In fact internally beaded solid panels such as those found in doors are inherently prone to being kicked in, the bead pops off the back when you kick the panel (not an issue with glass obviuosly as if you kick it hard it breaks which tends to deter the thieves).
The main advantage of internally beaded windows is during installation, much easier to install the glass from the inside on the third floor.
nixie, don't try removing the beading, it can be a pig if you don't have the right tools. Easiest way to check is if there is between 2 & 6mm of usually black foam between the glass and frame on the inside. This is the security tape.
No modern DG should be externally beaded though.
Yeah I thought things had been changed (our units are approx 10 years old now).
I was just stunned at how quickly access *could* be gained if the unit wasn't fitted correctly.
In fact internally beaded solid panels such as those found in doors are inherently prone to being kicked in, the bead pops off the back when you kick the panel (not an issue with glass obviuosly as if you kick it hard it breaks which tends to deter the thieves)
If you kicked our doors hard enough to knock the panel out with the beading you'd have ripped the frame from the wall first. Proper DG beading takes an almighty amount of force to get off when the pane is pushed normal to its surface, they require careful levering and prying off in a way not possible from the outside (well, it actually is if you drill a small hole through the frame and push a hard rod in to pry it off from behind but that's another matter!).
At the end of the day no matter what you do to protect your house someone will get in if they want to.
I feel for the poor sods who have to have ugly security gates on all doors and windows to try to stop the scrotes breaking in - used to see loads of houses like that when I worked in Leeds.
I used to be in the security industry back in the day. A mate of mine developed 40mm Thick plywood sledgehammer proof doors for local authority use. What they then found was scrotes were knocking the locks out, so they then came up with a sandwich plate to reinforce the door at that point, so the scrotes then turned their attention to the hinge side, so again a reinforcing sandwich plate was done for them, then they started knocking the whole door and frame out together, and that was where frame fixings came in. That pretty much did it, except that they then actually started knocking holes through walls.
The moral of the story, your security is only as strong as the weakest point wherever that might be, and you cannot stop a determined attack. Generally the whole deal is to make it easier for them to go elsewhere rather than your gaff.