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I have a question closely related to this thread, but didn't want to derail it by going slightly off-topic.
In any case, I am just wondering about the nature of strength and the ability to exert power.
I have always had powerful legs. I have natural muscle that means I have always been able to "power through" certain types of activities. So, for example, back when I was in my teens and early twenties, there was no one I knew who could press more than I could on a leg press machine. When it came to hill training as a teenaged cyclist, I was easily the fastest on the team.
BUT... when it came to playing football, I never had the strongest kick. I could place well enough, but if I took a free kick from my own end, I could not depend on my power to send the ball very far. Likewise the situation being discussed on the above-quoted thread. I am currently 80 kgs and 179 cms - so on the heavy side - and can climb quite well. Flats however? I struggle to exert any sort of consistent effort.
I know about the benefits of riding in a group to improve consistency of effort, but is there a way of training the body to deploy its strength more effectively in general?
Technique I reckon. Kicking a ball is certainly more about technique than sheer strength.
personally i think there is a big difference in mountain biking vs road. mountain biking in general tends to be lower cadence higher strength than road biking. flat road sections might be harder for a mountain biker as they spend less time at a sustained high cadence as part of a normal ride.
strength is really the ability to perform a specific movement.
Strength isn't the limiting factor on a road bike. Cardiovascular "fitness" is.
(It's not really a limiting factor in the vast majority of MTBing either. But thats another discussion altogether)
Flats however? I struggle to exert any sort of consistent effort
As I said on the other thread, I think this is a psychologivcal/technique thing for mtbers. Stick it out on the chain-gangs.
Kicking a ball is more explosive power whereas hill climbs are muscular endurance, very different energy systems and different muscle memory.
I also get the whole preferring hills things, you have something to fight against (gravity), but I think that's psychological and not physiological.
Strength isn’t the limiting factor on a road bike. Cardiovascular “fitness” is.
I can well believe you, but there must be something additional holding me back, first of all considering my question linked up performance in more fields than just cycling, but secondly because I am moderately fit in cardiovascular terms already.
Kicking a ball is more explosive power whereas hill climbs are muscular endurance, very different energy systems and different muscle memory.
Okay. So where would you place something like leg presses?
Okay. So where would you place something like leg presses?
It's slow twitch muscle rather than fast twitch muscle.
Similar to the difference between a squat / deadlift and a clean / snatch. The latter relies on explosive power which uses different muscle fibres and different energy systems (ATP vs muscle glycogen).
Do you train to put power down on flat road at high cadence?
If not, then that's probably why you aren't as efficient at it.
If you trained for that and not riding up hills, you'd most likely find that your body would adapt to that training and you would become better at that, but perhaps with a decline in what you are more proficient at now.
It's why sprinters are not long distance runners and vice versa.
I believe as you get older you get worse at explosive power, but can keep getting stronger - that's my excuse for being a bit duff at (Olympic) Weight Lifting....
It’s why sprinters are not long distance runners and vice versa.
Although real explosive power, e.g. the snatch, all occurs in sub 1 second, whereas 100m takes a whole 10 seconds!
Some impressive joules/sec numbers....
People talk about low cadence 'strength' training on a bike, but f you think about the load you're pushing per repetition, it's not really strength at all in weight training / resistance terms anyway. Even at, say, 40rpm, that's still a force you can exert for hundreds or thousands of repetitions - as above, you're really looking at localised muscular endurance.
If you did 40 leg presses in a minute, you'd consider that muscular endurance, not strength right. And that's just a single minute's worth.
People talk about low cadence ‘strength’ training on a bike, but f you think about the load you’re pushing per repetition, it’s not really strength at all in weight training / resistance terms anyway.
Yep when I do 5x5 squats I'm spent after the 5th rep and would probably have to ditch the bar if I tried another rep or two. Very different from cycling up a hill in a low cadence where I might have several hundred reps....
Kicking a ball is not just about strength, more about technique and timing, similar to golf, the folks that are ripped don't necessarily hit the ball the furthest.
And riding on the flat, mibbe it just doesn't inspire you enough to get going? I know I tend to get bored when there's no ups or downs.
I forget to pedal on flats!
You need to understand where your aerobic threshold is. Below your aerobic threshold you're working the aerobic zone and will have alot more endurance, but less out and out strength/power. But above than then your in the anaerobic zone where your muscles are working differently and generating more power but also generating lactic acid, which is a buy product of the chemical reaction going on in your muscles when using them anaerobically. And of course we all know that Lactic acid damages and fatigues muscles so when you're generating lactic acid you haven't got long before muscle failure.
My brother had a VO2 Max test and the outcome was he was very good anaerobically, but his aerobic threshold was low, so dropped into anaerobic mode quite early which is no good for any endurance sports like Triathlon (whcih was what he was training for). So his training plan had to have alot more endurance training built in to raise his aerobic threshold. By doing this he could lay down more power aerobically and save the anaerobic exercise for the final sprint to the line where he had to dip into that additional power.
Not sure if any of this will do anything for your ball kicking though. I was always the strongest at school in terms of press ups, bench press and general upper body strength, but couldn't throw a ball anywhere near as far as alot of my class mates, so I suspect this has far more to do with technique than strength and power.
I can well believe you, but there must be something additional holding me back, first of all considering my question linked up performance in more fields than just cycling, but secondly because I am moderately fit in cardiovascular terms already.
Technique. And practice.
Applying reasonable force to pedals at 100 times/minute for 20-30 minutes (or more), and doing it consistently is apparently beyond many. And an understanding of how fit it can make you when you do it lots seems to have been missed by many of those in the other thread.
If you do it more you'll get better at it.
It's what 2x20 is all about. (And others)
Two other things to bear in mind, who are you comparing with for how effective you are on the flat, who are you comparing with for cardio fitness?