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I can't see a post about this documentary that's been on BBC4 the last 2 nights. Utterly horrifying, a really harrowing watch. As usual, a very good Storyville documentary but I had no idea the extent of what happened. 918 people murdered (although some may have accepted it as suicide), hundreds of children, chilling to hear the audio recording of the event. The manipulation of the followers, the lies, the fear, the paranoia, the maniac cult leader. A very, very dark story. I'm sure the traits that motivate people to seek this type of life either as a leader or a follower of a cult like that are all still very present in the lives of some people today. As one of the interviewees said at the end, it could happen again.
One of those classic Storyville documentaries. Utterly fascinating and shocking.
Only knew the story from contemporary(ish) references, like Brian Jonestown Massacre and Kool Aid, but to get the full amazing story was quite incredible.
I’m sure the traits that motivate people to seek this type of life either as a leader or a follower of a cult like that are all still very present in the lives of some people today.
Its actually quite loudly echoed in the behaviour of a certain president and his supporters.
Interesting that, because Trump just has nowhere near the oratory skills of Jones (or his big influence, Adolf) and yet they still mindlessly follow him.
Interesting that, because Trump just has nowhere near the oratory skills of Jones (or his big influence, Adolf) and yet they still mindlessly follow him.
Its about creating a sense of victim-hood. He's in charge, yet plays the role of the underdog. The more blunders he makes and rules he breaks and gets called out on it the more it creates a siege mentality.
"Jones was known to regularly study Adolf Hitler and Father Divine to learn how to manipulate members of the cult. Divine told Jones personally to "find an enemy" and "to make sure they know who the enemy is" as it will unify those in the group and make them subservient to him"
Jones and his followers were galvanised by negative press reporting and believed there was a grand conspiracy of the press, intelligence services and the Post Office out to discredit them.
For Trump and his supporters the enemy is 'Everyone else'. He can't say/write the name of anyone who's not one of his own without prefacing it with some sort of pejorative term
"Donald Trump recently proclaimed retired US Marine Corps General Jim Mattis to be the “world’s most overrated general.” As the target of such a Presidential pejorative, Mattis should not feel alone. A New York Times running tally shows that since becoming President, Trump—just on Twitter—has insulted 598 different people, places and things (as of May 24, 2019). The aim of his personal insults has often been to make the targets seem incompetent or corrupt, with the apparent goal of reducing positive feelings people might have for them.
Similarly, when a few Republicans criticized President Trump during the impeachment inquiry, he called them “human scum”. Here, Trump is not only asserting they are deeply flawed, he is questioning their worth as people. Because they are of low worth, we should not treat them with respect. Instead, we should treat them with contempt."
The guy was an absolute loon, and the end really rather tragic.
See also tactics used by "vote leave" of late, here.
@maccruiskeen Yes, I picked up on that theme, playing the victim, they're out to get us, it's them against us. But ultimately it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Them vs us is a common theme today. I was reminded of Putin and Russia, Erdogan and Turkey, even reminds me of the dynamic used against me in my last relationship. Warped. Do they really believe they are the victims or are they just using it as a tactic to get what they want?
Scary to hear Jones' drug induced rants stating they're coming to kill us. One of his sons stated near the end of the documentary when they got the coded message over the radio to commit revolutionary violence and suicide in town he hadn't taken his dad seriously when he'd mentioned it in the past so at least some people brought up in the chaos of it all knew it was messed up. But the location of Jonestown and the groupthink seemed to have them paralysed and unable to save themselves. His son's subsequent mention of the zealots murdering kids in the bathroom was really distressing. Utter madness.
I watched it last night, the second half of the second part is difficult viewing. I remember it from the time but not in any great detail. I think in my mind it had always been a story of a mass suicide whereas in reality it was a story about mass murder. There was a lot more fear rather than brainwashing controlling the majority of people there. He did indeed copy the oratory of Hitler but he also employed to great effect the random punishments and denunciations of Stalin.
Terrible to see how good people who had actually built a valuable community had all that taken away. The racial integration must of been something quite rare when it was first formed and it was clear from the survivors that they saw Jim Jones not as the man who created it but who destroyed it.
Just got around to starting this - incredible story.
The whole "them and us" narrative is alarmingly up to date
Do us a favour.
If you think that listening to the audio of this will help you understand the situation - just don't.
Please.
It can't be unlisntened.
@rustyspanner are you referring specifically to Storyville content or the content of the Death Tape on various places inc Wikipedia? I think Storyville docs are fantastic but would rather not **** myself up.
This is worth a listen if you can stand anymore... three episodes in all:
https://pca.st/episode/cdb976db-8e64-4583-bdda-28d5658745e0
Watched the second episode last night, slight warily after Rusty Spanners comments. It was very unpleasant listening, but not as bad as I'd feared, given that I'm very squeamish, especially if it involves kids. Suspect it had been edited to be more appropriate, though other descriptions were brutal.
I found the end sequence, with the various survivors - Jim Jones two sons, the escapees and the Senator - very uplifting. The guy who lost his son but despite obvious trauma went on to serve 30 years as a police officer was a remarkable example of trauma and resilience.
Interesting that, because Trump just has nowhere near the oratory skills of Jones (or his big influence, Adolf) and yet they still mindlessly follow him.
I actually think that when history looks back at Trump's time in power his oratory skills, such as they are, will be pointed at as one of the reasons why he was able to get away with it
I'm not sure Hitler is known for the intellectual thoroughness of his speeches, but for rabble rousing sound bites, he, Jim Jones, Trump, they are all up there