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...be glad you've got a job in this day and age !
Yeah, know your place workers!
whats that Discount Tents?
Tensions 'boiling over'
Prof Roger Seifurt from the University of Wolverhampton said many of the tensions were longstanding and were "boiling over now because during Christmas they get more media coverage".
He told the BBC's Today programme that discontent among workers was not just affecting these companies, and that worsening pensions, stagnant pay and reduced job security was hitting a range of industries.
"This is now boiling over into strikes which I think will carry on into the new year."
He added that we were entering "a period of quite bitter and prolonged disputes" where unions will take more strike action.
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-38359640
But in the future they'll have robots for striking and we should make the most of it before the tradition extincts.
So far this year we've had
Teachers(standard)
Tube drivers(standard)
Doctors(unprecedented)
Paramedics(unprecedented)
Royal mail (standard)
Train drivers(standard)
Prison service(unprecedented?)
Pilots on a work to rule(virgin)
Any I've missed?
Mrs T must be so proud of Mrs T's and Mr C's performance - its like the late 70's all over again.
I wonder if the average RMT striker today thinks they are striking over safety as their leaders proclaim or if in their heads its only about saving their jobs. My feeling is the latter. If the former and they are doing it for 'us' we the public don't seem very grateful. I just wish they would be honest - I'd respect them more for it.
Is it the EUs fault? 😉
It seems to be riding on the same wave of disconnect as Brexit
unfitgeezer - Member...be glad you've got a job in this day and age !
Not sure if being ironic?
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37701672 ]The UK jobless rate held steady at a near 11-year low of 4.9% in the three months to August, figures show.[/url]
We need more migrants to fill all these job vacancies....
What is the common theme amongst that eclectic mix of 2016 strikers?
The gap between those with their noses in the trough, and the workers had got ridiculous, so I'm not surprised.
the covenant with capitalism is broken, also southern rail is awful.
Mrs T must be so proud of Mrs T's and Mr C's performance - its like the late 70's all over again.
Nothing like it at all!
You obviously weren't about in the 70s....
We had rubbish piled high in the streets and a 3 day week.
Enlighten me, what is the common theme amongst disgruntled striking workers?
The only reason we ain't got rubbish piled in the streets here footflaps is most of us here are resigned to taking it to the waste centre ourselfs
Increasing job insecurity, downward pressure on wages and pensions, rising inequality between the boardroom and the employees, inflation, rising rents, cutbacks in public services etc etc etc. Who in their right mind would be gruntled?
The only reason we ain't got rubbish piled in the streets here footflaps is most of us here are resigned to taking it to the waste centre ourselfs
Do you not have weekly / fortnightly bin collections like the rest of the UK?
Increasing job insecurity, downward pressure on wages and pensions, rising inequality between the boardroom and the employees, inflation, rising rents, cutbacks in public services etc etc etc. Who in their right mind would be gruntled?
I'm surprised we don't have more strikes to be honest, the public sector pay settlements are basically a pay cut every year till 2020.
For me, working frontline in the public sector right now (NHS) you're bearing the brunt of "austerity" every day. If it was just the stagnant wages(effective cut) the increasing pension contributions(effective cut), the unsustainable workload, the toxic litigious environment and the demonisation by the press I wouldn't mind. But not having the resources to do my job to the best of my ability and seeing people harmed or die as a result is getting old, especially when you've worked in another system.
Its been this way for several years but the numbers are just starting to filter through - correlation does not imply causality but Mental health services have basically collapsed and guess what
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-38343186
"GP's need more training" says the article above - I can never get enough training, I love it. Even though I pay £thousands for it myself every year.
What I need more is capacity in local services to see and treat people that need it. Last week, young man comes to see me, first presentation of moderate -severe depression with strong suicidal thoughts. Phone up local MH team -"give him a leaflet and we'll see him in 2 weeks" Ok but what about the fact he's told me he lined up a beam in his garage and practiced tying the noose? "He's got no previous and he's not psychotic" " Why don't you see him next week to make sure he's ok" Brilliant. Trouble is the guy on the phone knows he needs to be seen today, but there is NO capacity, so he's taking a gamble, literally. This happens every days thousands of times in the good old NHS.
Fully qualified after 8 years of training last year and Ive just handed in my NHS notice. I will just wait it out on a series of short term contracts, where I dictate the terms while I can, until people decide how and what they want to pay for healthcare.
Others may not be so fortunate.
GRAPHTIME!
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Even if it were updated, I doubt even this year's shenanigans would feature as more than a tiny blip on the LH Scale. No political conviction of the modern worker, that's the problem these days! Too content to change career rather than fight for a dying industry! Where's their backbone?! It weren't like this in't 70's yerknow!
I'm surprised we don't have more strikes to be honest, the public sector pay settlements are basically a pay cut every year till 2020.
Won't Brexit put pressure on employers to increase salaries, once the flow of cheap migrants dries up?
Won't Brexit put pressure on employers to increase salaries, once the flow of cheap migrants dries up?
Possibly so, but no employer will be willing to take that as a hit to profits so we'll just see it reflected in increased price of goods and then that salary increase was all for nothing.
The toady old unions have long since stopped caring about ensuring the organisations their members work in remain financially viable or serve the customers that keep the money coming in.
Having Theresa May as a PM represents a once in 30 years opportunity to re-run a coordinated campaign against a female prime minister - it's no coincidence that nearly all of the union leaders are men. We don't need to guess as to why there are so many strikes:
- The Union leaders told us they wanted to use Jeremy Corbyn to re-establish hard left politics and funded him for that purpose
- They told us they would seek to agitate disputes with the Government
- They told us they would work to do this
- Jeremy Corbyn / Labour have nothing to say - perhaps the £116K the former received from the Unions has something to do with this?
...And they are still telling us this now.
The video of RMT president Sean Hoyle takes away any uncertainty about how these strikes will play out - "we are coordinating to bring the government down".
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/rail-union-boss-vows-to-topple-tories-c0hm3r3sh
As with NUM/ miners in the 80's these disputes will simply cause untold misery for the majority of workers who aren't in Unions and will likely cause the government to introduce even more anti-union legislation. This is something that's a retrograde step but when the likes of the RMT have balloted their members more than once a week for the whole of the last year it's pretty clear they have no desire to resolve things in an sensible negotiated way and the only measure of success they seek is conflict.
oldnpastit - Member
I'm surprised we don't have more strikes to be honest, the public sector pay settlements are basically a pay cut every year till 2020.
Won't Brexit put pressure on employers to increase salaries, once the flow of cheap migrants dries up?
LOL.
Yeah OP I agree...Be glad you've got a job even if it doesn't pay the bills and you have to use foodbanks, your kids miss you because you hardly see them because you're working long hours to make ends meet and consequently your health suffers and your chances of dying early is increased... least you know the shareholders/decision makers are doing alright for themselves. 🙄
Having Theresa May as a PM represents a once in 30 years opportunity to re-run a coordinated campaign against a female prime minister - it's no coincidence that nearly all of the union leaders are men. We don't need to guess as to why there are so many strikes:
That would have so much more credence if the TUC General secretary was not called [u][b]Ms[/b][/u] Frances O'Grady.
edenvalleyboy - Member
Yeah OP I agree...Be glad you've got a job even if it doesn't pay the bills and you have to use foodbanks, your kids miss you because you hardly see them because you're working long hours to make ends meet and consequently your health suffers and your chances of dying early is increased... least you know the shareholders/decision makers are doing alright for themselves.
Indeed, I saw an infographic (which I have to admit I didn't have time to fact check) claiming that due to benefits needed by low paid workers, we (the taxpayer) subsidise supermarkets to the tune of 150-300k/yr depending on brand (and I guess depending more upon size of their typical store).
Won't Brexit put pressure on employers to increase salaries, once the flow of cheap migrants dries up?
I doubt it, as the jobs will just move overseas to places that have a good supply of cheap labour. Most of the veg/salad farmers in the UK will sell up and we'll just import veg from Europe. At the end of the day, consumers will still want cheap veg in the super markets....
But Jambalaya told us that cheap migrant labourers will spend thousands of pounds to apply for a work visa.
Yeah OP I agree...Be glad you've got a job even if it doesn't pay the bills and you have to use foodbanks, your kids miss you because you hardly see them because you're working long hours to make ends meet and consequently your health suffers and your chances of dying early is increased... least you know the shareholders/decision makers are doing alright for themselves.
Apart from of course very few of the lowest paid using the foodbanks etc are in unionised professions. Train guards basic is circa £25K pa. Looking down the list of 2016's strikers teachers, tube drivers and doctors are not on the bread line (or the paramedics, prison guards or royal mail come to that) and the BA pilots are positively rolling it in. It does not mean you don't have a point but don't don't mix the issues.
That would have so much more credence if the TUC General secretary was not called Ms Frances O'Grady.
Yes but this misses the point that the TUC can't call members out on strike - that's the likes of the RMT, ASLEF etc. most / all? of which are led by men.
No political conviction of the modern worker, that's the problem these days!
That probably correct for the people who have the sort of job you could withdraw your labour from. Unfortunately a lot of people now seemingly have a 'job' but don't know today if they'll be asked to work tomorrow or ever again. Zero hours contracts have effectively returned us to the pen system.
just5minutes - Member
Having Theresa May as a PM represents a once in 30 years opportunity to re-run a coordinated campaign against a female prime minister - it's no coincidence that nearly all of the union leaders are men. We don't need to guess as to why there are so many strikes
And nothing to do with comments like this, from February (before the strikes and May becoming PM)
[url= http://m.croydonadvertiser.co.uk/department-transport-says-break-train-drivers/story-28783309-detail/story.html ]DfT 'punch-ups' with union[/url]
Over the next three years we're going to be having punch ups and we will see industrial action and I want your support," Mr Wilkinson told residents in Croydon Town
..."I'm furious about it and it has got to change - we have got to break them," he said.
"They have all borrowed money to buy cars and got credit cards.
"They can't afford to spend too long on strike and I will push them into that place.
"They will have to decide if they want to give a good service or get the hell out of my industry."
just5minutes - Member
Yes but this misses the point that the TUC can't call members out on strike - that's the likes of the RMT, ASLEF etc.
No union 'calls members out on strike'.
most / all? of which are led by men.
Doesn't seem like it would be too difficult to find out before making allegations of a patriarchal conspiracy against a female PM who wasn't even in power when the dispute started.
Unfortunately a lot of people now seemingly have a 'job' but don't know today if they'll be asked to work tomorrow or ever again. Zero hours contracts have effectively returned us to the pen system.
A lot ie, less than <3% of the workforce including some for whom ZHCs work well. 😯
3% of 30 odd million is still 'a lot' of people imo. Zero hour contracts do have their place though, as you say.
Zero hours works very well for the worker when theres an undersupply of skilled people. You basically choose when, where and how you work!
For example, a new rota for the most experienced A+E nurses was implemented. In addition to being inflexible, it was short notice shift work(3 weeks) which made childcare planning etc impossible for them. So the majority of them left and came back as agency staff when we failed to recruit anyone else to replace them. These are senior, band 6 -7 nurses essential for smooth running of the department. The NHS now pays them double what they were earning and they work when they want with less responsibility and less stress. Meanwhile the gaps in the rota opened up by their reduced hours sees a newly qualified band 5 is "acting up" to be nurse in charge of a busy A+E running considerably over capacity with majority locum staff.
It'll be years before we can replace these experienced people by which time they'll most likely be tucked up in managerial roles for Virgin et al. The same pattern is happening across all spheres of healthcare and probably the rest of the public sector?
Unions don't strike for political reasons.
They strike because members have voted to do so in order to protect their own interests. That they have the right to do so is incredibly important.
On the subject of safety concerns vs. job security in the rail dispute - think about it for a second and you'll realise the two are not mutually exclusive.
I'm dismayed at the extent of anti-union sentiment in this country - the nation that gave the world the trade union. I wonder what the correlation is with Brexit support? Both have an element of turkeys voting for Xmas.
"Establish a Socialist Order", you say?
Ermmmm. No thanks.
Not sure about your first point chakaping.
If its public sector you withdraw labour from the government in the hope they(government) will come under public pressure and either relent to your demands or be replaced by the electorate.
Unless you're the BMA of course, in which case you just organise a right merry balls up and start handbagging each other.
So far this year we've hadTeachers(standard)
Tube drivers(standard)
Doctors(unprecedented)
Paramedics(unprecedented)
Royal mail (standard)
Train drivers(standard)
Prison service(unprecedented?)
Pilots on a work to rule(virgin)Any I've missed?
How about Swissport baggage handlers at Heathrow
And British Airways cabin crew
It's Virgin pilots, not BA as someone up above said, that are working to rule apparently.
On the subject of safety concerns vs. job security in the rail dispute - think about it for a second and you'll realise the two are not mutually exclusive.
There *can* be a conflict of interest. That's why Unions aren't responsible for safety, the regulator is. The Union's responsibility is, quite rightly, the T+C's of their members.
One of the reasons we are all feeling hard done to is the change from RPI to CPI as the measure of inflation by the UK government in 2003. CPI/ RPI are different measures of inflation, and are used to calculate 'cost of living' wage increases in both the public and private sectors. CPI generally runs at around 1% less than RPI, and has been doing so since 2003 (this is a huge generalisation mind).
Since 2003 we've been getting steadily 'poorer' in relative terms. This manifests itself in a general underwhelming feeling of not being properly remunerated.
I'm not surprised to see established staff suprisingly (to some!) leaving companies and teams, to take advantage of zero hours contracts, or moving companies to ratchet up their pay.
We undoubtedly have a race to the bottom approach in the public sector for which the price will be significant in years to come. Whilst Mr Average may care little based on a perception of overpaid underworked civil servants et al he will bemoan the reduced quality of those services when the impact fully filters through and it's going to take years to remedy.
Recruitment of quality employees is becoming much harder in the public sector and retention post extensive training is a major issue. We're struggling to recruit maths teachers and it's not because they're overpaid with excessive holidays.
Stop striking and get back to work..
said the troll posting on STW during working hours
BA pilots are positively rolling it in.
[Citation needed]
Also, thought it was Virgin, not BA...
Has anyone noticed how every single union leader, no matter who they're representing, sounds like they're doing a Reggie Kray impression. Do they breed them in a little colony in Bethnal Green?
What alternative do people that have seen their wages eroded, working conditions made much worse, pensions go south and all the rest of it actually have to negotiate with except a strike? I've never heard a decent answer to this question from those opposed to this type of action.
Before you slag off BA pilots, please get your facts straight!
1. We aren't striking
2. I'm certainly not rolling in it. Don't believe everything the Hate Mail tells you about pilots wages.
Before you slag off BA pilots, please get your facts straight!1. We aren't striking
2. I'm certainly not rolling in it. Don't believe everything the Hate Mail tells you about pilots wages.
Apologies - that was me - I got my Virgin pilots and BA aircrew mixed up.
You must be doing it wrong though - I have a friend who is a Virgin pilot (which makes my error inexcusable) who is rolling in it relative to the average Joe. Well rolling in it if you count kids at private school, an audi on the drive and a pony in the paddock as doing well monetarily.
What alternative do people that have seen their wages eroded, working conditions made much worse, pensions go south and all the rest of it actually have to negotiate with except a strike?
I believe the correct answer is to seize their entrepreneurial spirit, educate themselves, take advantages of all the opportunities this meritocratic, egalitarian land of milk and honey provides, maybe move to a studio flat in Hoxton, buy some skinny jeans, set up their own web development agency, and become a self-facilitating media node.
"What alternative do people that have seen their wages eroded, working conditions made much worse, pensions go south and all the rest of it actually have to negotiate with except a strike? I've never heard a decent answer to this question from those opposed to this type of action."
The alternative to striking is to be more productive. Striking doesn't help them in the least.
I think they should strike more often then award the Union leader high salary for a job well done.
The workers should also demand more pay increments.
They should also apply wild cat strike to make things more interesting.
I say not enough strike ...
Labour and Lib Dem should lead the strike too.
outofbreath - MemberStriking doesn't help them in the least.
Well that will explain why Aslef drivers are only on £50k - I always did wonder.
No doubt if they didn't ever strike they would be on at least double that.
.
binners - MemberHas anyone noticed how every single union leader, no matter who they're representing, sounds like they're doing a Reggie Kray impression.
You mean like the leader of Britain's largest union Len McCluskey ?
So Reggie Kray was a scouser right ?
.
Every time I visit STW I learn some new fascinating facts. Today it was that train drivers are on shit money 'cause they strike and East End gangster Reggie Kray was scouser.
I wonder what tomorrow will bring.
binners - Member
Has anyone noticed how every single union leader, no matter who they're representing, sounds like they're doing a Reggie Kray impression.
If I were a union leader I could be anything you wanted me to be so long as I have nice handsome pay cheque at the end of the day.
so far this year we've had
Teachers(standard)
Tube drivers(standard)
Doctors(unprecedented)
Paramedics(unprecedented)
Royal mail (standard)
Train drivers(standard)
Prison service(unprecedented?)
Pilots on a work to rule(virgin)Any I've missed?
How about Swissport baggage handlers at Heathrow
And British Airways cabin crew
It's Virgin pilots, not BA as someone up above said, that are working to rule apparently.
Theres also the fire men and women,
other parts of the privitised health services, cleaners/porters etc,
Lots of small companies are also feature strikes,
then theres the univercity staff ,
and lots more, all fighting and strugling to maintain their ground/wage/skills and differentials from other groups of workers.
Without conflict their wouldnt be class, and with out class there wouldnt be conflict.
Convert - how much do you think a senior pilot (15-30 years experience minimum) responsible for the safe passage of 300+ pax and 15 crew around the world, who had to pay £80-100k for his own training, should be paid? Granted it is more than factory workers (my dad) but certainly a lot, lot less than most professions.
argos delivery drivers working for Wincanton
and now
Weetabix workers to strike after christmas.
outofbreath - MemberThe alternative to striking is to be more productive
Not sure if serious...
"We're going to treat you badly at work"
"Fine- I'll be more productive"
"Um, OK. In that case I'll keep treating you badly"
"Sorry, can't answer, working too hard..."
so far this year we've had
Teachers(standard)
Tube drivers(standard)
Doctors(unprecedented)
Paramedics(unprecedented)
Royal mail (standard)
Train drivers(standard)
Prison service(unprecedented?)
Pilots on a work to rule(virgin)
Any I've missed?
When did Royal Mail go on strike or are you thinking of the Post Office ?
Convert - how much do you think a senior pilot (15-30 years experience minimum) responsible for the safe passage of 300+ pax and 15 crew around the world, who had to pay £80-100k for his own training, should be paid? Granted it is more than factory workers (my dad) but certainly a lot, lot less than most professions.
What I think they should get paid is irrelevant. I understand an experienced BA long haul captain is on north of £100K. Am I wrong?
This is irrelevant though - go back and look where I made the first comment. It was in response to another poster claiming industrial action was the only way to keep jobs above food bank levels of pay. Pilots (and all the others on the list of folk involved in high profile industrial action this year) are someway off that.
When did Royal Mail go on strike or are you thinking of the Post Office
royal mail sorting offices, eg accrington
Convert - fair enough. I bit, so apologies.
The productivity and wages of all of the above groups is being squeezed, whilst the executive levels in the businesses profit from their loss. I'm pretty certain this is common to all of the unhappy industries.
Through all of this, just remember that ordinary people aren't members of unions. It's some kind of mutiny of preverts.
Do you not have weekly / fortnightly bin collections like the rest of the UK?
No, 3 weekly on non recyclable waste, fortnightly for recycling.
Bolton next door is 2 weekly, but have ditched normal sized bins for narrow bins for all that were originally for single people in flats.
I have never seen as many rats in my life since Nick Peel foisted that brainchild at a cost of 3 million on the population.
"We're going to treat you badly at work"
"Fine- I'll be more productive"
"Um, OK. In that case I'll keep treating you badly"
"Sorry, can't answer, working too hard..."
Lol
As much as many in the public sector may be striking over pay, terms and job security, a lot of it comes from the underlying frustration at not being able to do their jobs properly due to ill advised cuts.
certainly a lot, lot less than most professions.
Really?
( http://www.flightdeckfriend.com/how-much-does-an-airline-pilot-get-paid)?The Guardian (a UK newspaper) stated that in 2013, airline pilots were the 2nd highest paid profession in the United Kingdom earning an average of £78,356 ($126,000 / €99,000), a year.
Whereas the current average UK wage is approximately £27k. That you've paid for your own training is irrelevant - you knew this before entering the profession and clearly decided that the potential earnings mitigated this; most graduates are now saddled with comparable debt, yet are unlikely to reach these earnings.
so far this year we've had
Teachers(standard)
Tube drivers(standard)
Doctors(unprecedented)
Paramedics(unprecedented)
Royal mail (standard)
Train drivers(standard)
Prison service(unprecedented?)
Pilots on a work to rule(virgin)
Any I've missed?
One of those wasn't to do with money though (primarily)
One of those wasn't to do with money though (primarily)
Was that the teachers?
not being able to do their jobs properly due to ill advised cuts.
Just o[b]n[/b]e letter missing there
Was that the teachers?
No it was them screws. 😛
I work for Royal mail although we have not yet been on strike this year I fear we will be doing soon. There's a huge amount of bullying towards staff from management.
I am all for a business moving forward with the times but bullying in the work place is unacceptable. I am all for strike action!!!!
Stagecoach Bus are striking on wirral from jan the 4 for a few days, and i support them they need better pay for the responsibility of driving a large bus full of passsengers
they need better pay for the responsibility of driving a large bus full of passsengers
Is that because when they took the job they were just driving a small bus with no passengers?
There used to be 2 groups of pcv driver big bus buses with more than 16 seats, and small bus driveres driving buses with 16 or less seats, eg converted vans, thankfully theyve mostly gone now, the strike is about no payrises , lower wages for new starters, and more responsibilities, shift chnges etc.
New DOO services amended calls yesterday as some stations not authorised for DOO, guards will be on trains from late afternoon to early morning due to low lighting levels at the smaller stations (ie it's too dangerous to let the drivers close the doors in these instances, so exactly what the unions have been saying) and some drivers were having to get out of the cab to check it was clear as the screens were obscured by the sun at certain points during the day.
It's not like Southern have had a year to plan this, almost as if the argument is more important than the implementation.