Can’t see anyone else has picked up on this yet, but it’s gone to the Secretary of State to sign off, and the plans, finally, look like how it should have been done twenty years ago! It’s going to be twin tunnels, bored not cut and cover, about 40m deep and 200m away from the stones, so further away than the A303 is now. Plus changes to the various junctions.
https://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/news/22976266.national-highways-a303-awards-contracts/
The only issue I can see is the incessant whining from entitled assholes snivelling because they won’t be able to see the stones any more! Boo ******* hoo! You’re not entitled to look at the sodding stones, you’re required to pay attention to what’s in front of you while you’re driving!
Just getting across the junction with the A303 heading south on the A350 to Salisbury is a bloody nightmare, due to entitled ****s deliberately blocking the ‘keep clear’ boxes, afraid they might get pushed back a space or two, which won’t add any appreciable time to the delay they’re already enduring.
Can’t come soon enough for the poor locals who’ve been suffering delays there for years.
Was really surprised how close the road is to the stones when I went past. This can only be a good thing and hopefully should look good from the stones (ie you can't see the road)
I use that stretch of the '303 regularly to get from home on the Wilts/Dorset border, to work in Oxfordshire.
Personally, I'll be grateful for the improvements, as I imagine the residents of Winterborne Stoke & Shrewton will be, but I am sad that the Till Valley is getting the road through it; Parsonage Down is magnificent in its tranquility and natural beauty. I hope much of that is retained 🤞🏻🤞🏻
Surely the brave new way is to knock them down and build a housing estate on the site.
I guess it depends on how it is dug out. The problem is Stonehenge is just one part of the landscape with multiple other sites in the vicinity and probably more undiscovered. So would want to see some informed comments about the risk of the boring approach to losing history.
What provision is being made for cyclists? I assume they're not expected to use a 2 mile long tunnel?
It's a shame that the current site is a replica. The original stones were dumped in a dusty storage facility on a secret airbase not far from the original site just before WW2...
Best make the whole site into a carpark and visitors centre as the current setup is awful. You could use the existing 'stones' as hardcore...😎
The tunnels are going to destroy known archaeological stuff i believe. Thats why its been constantly rejected.
Also new roads mean more traffic
hmmm, sounds like the entitled locals don't want the scruffy outsiders blocking access to tescos.
£1.25 billion for this 8 mile detour, i think they could spend that on better solutions on the 303 in general!
hmmm, sounds like the entitled locals don’t want the scruffy outsiders blocking access to tescos.
The nearest Tesco is far enough away not to get affected.
The nearest Tesco is far enough away not to get affected.
then what's the problem? after all, people have been slowly proceeding to have a look at the thing since it was built.
entitled assholes snivelling because they won’t be able to see the stones any more! Boo ******* hoo! You’re not entitled to look at the sodding stones
yes; yes they are. world heritage site mate.
then what’s the problem?
Yawn 🥱
The tunnels are going to destroy known archaeological stuff i believe. Thats why its been constantly rejected.
I think that was the case with the cut and cover method. If they are boring it should be better(ish).
Yawn 🥱
keeping you up are we?
The tunnel under the Devil's Punchbowl at Hindhead has been a spectacular success. Traffic is so much better on the A3 south in particular, on the local roads, and the old A3 has been allowed to grow over so the area now is whole, no load through the middle for walkers, horse riders and cyclists to navigate around.
Great name for the PM on the project
edit
£1.25 billion for this 8 mile detour, i think they could spend that on better solutions on the 303 in general!
Unfortunately, I suspect there's a strong possibility it will have been spent on tax cuts
If they are boring it should be better(ish).
Hopefully. I would assume its a lot better than the previous proposed trashing of the landscape but before jumping up and down with happiness I would like to see some informed opinion as opposed to just the locals being happy.
I'd suggest that 'locals being happy' constitutes informed opinion. Public consultation has taken place, expert and lay views, knowledge and opinion has been sought and listened to.
You can please all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time. Compromises need to be struck and this seems like a good one to me.
I too would like to know what provision is to be made for cyclists, horse riders, pedestrians etc.
WHS protection means the square root of ****all to this Tory Government. I know. Because the ****s called in and approved building in WHS buffer zone here in Derbyshire. Because they corrupt builders had stuffed the corrupt party coffers with pieces of silver after it was repeatedly rejected in local planning ( its in the WHS buffer zone which is there to protect the WHS. But that was dismissed as not mattering.
I'd like to know who TF is paying.
Could they not just move the stones?
It's not like it matters exactly where they are or anything.
The tunnels are going to destroy known archaeological stuff i believe
Correct. The whole area is rammed full of unique archaeological treasure of significant importance of human development. There are astonishingly small numbers of sites across the world that are so densely packed with information about the earliest human settlements.
Driving a tunnel that close seems to me to be the equivalent of knocking down Museum D'Orsay with all the art still there to widen the road alongside the Seine, or knocking down the Piazza Del Doumo to make room for a housing estate.
Idiots
I don’t understand why they aren’t planning to spend the money on dualling the A303 in its entirety.
This is what is needed as the road suffers from pinch points all along as it changes from dual to single carriageway. I don’t see that digging a tunnel Will alleviate that, just push the problem further down the road. The section past Stonehenge needs to have something there to block the view for drivers, lots of whom slow to take photos and look at the stones, as this is dangerous.
I live in Amesbury and commute west on the a303 for work. I’ve had very few problems in the nearly two years I’ve been doing the journey. I know others do but it’s clearly not the constant problem that it’s made out to be.
I am fully opposed to the tunnel, if anyone is interested to read about the destruction of archeology in the area, look at the “Stonehenge alliance” website. There has been a suggestion that Stonehenge may have it’s whs status removed as a result of the tunnel. Overall journey time improvement from the tunnel has been put at a matter of a few minutes, which is not a great return for the billions it will cost.
I don't really get what the fuss about Stonehenge is, sure it's quite big but there are bloody hundreds of stone circles up here. It's like the Neolithic dogshitbaginatree
Tourist crack, innit.
I like the piccies of it when they remodelled it in ‘45 🙂
Although it was very spooky in the Qatermass series in the ‘79 when the hippies got fried there.
Anna-B
I don’t understand why they aren’t planning to spend the money on dualling the A303 in its entirety.
Seeing as this proposed tunnel bit of the A303 is currently part of a single carriageway bit of the A303 I'm confused how they would spend the money for a section of the dialling on dialling the whole lot?
Last time I drove the road there were large sections with construction ongoing adjacent to the road to provide new dual carriageway so it would appear that dialling the whole lot is the endgame plan.
Due to how the funding tranches are applied and bid for, it's fairly normal to undertake projects as smaller sections of a greater master plan.
From a heritage point of view, the tunnel boring will have next to no effect on archeology in the area if done deep enough to be below those remains. London underground for example, when redoing Kings Cross underground station, tunnelled within 300mm of a buildings foundations with no ill effects. The potentially risky bit for archeology is the tunnel entrances and these will have been carefully sited with regard to the large number of remains that are known about.
Some nice screening fences would be a nice cheap option to reduce the rubbernecking but this has previously been rejected by the public
I’d like to know who TF is paying.
The monument itself is being sold to private owners to pay for the bypass.
I should probably check this isn't actually true before joking about it.
In other news secretary to the treasury, ardent tunnel supporter and salisbury MP John Glen stood down from his 5 year post earlier this year and subsequently hasn't made so much as a whimper about the new government ploughing ahead with its financial plans after tearing up the treasury playbook.
I’d like to know who TF is paying.
RIS (Roads Investment Strategy) 2 budget (covering 2020 - 2025) was already cut by about £3.5bn due to delays in both A303 and Lower Dartford Crossing, the original budget was about £27bn. Same for RIS3 which will be 2025 - 2030. There's a lot of crossover as well in the "2025" part, some schemes will get budget from both.
Nothing has yet been fully costed for Stonehenge Tunnel as it was in the balance as to whether it would go ahead in the first pace or whether ot would be full dualling or some other scheme (cut & cover tunnel for example).
Stupid idea - years of construction, almost certainly hundreds of millions of ££ cost over-runs and then it'll be full of traffic again in a couple of years and the area will be back to square one.
If the Government had been even halfway competent (ha!), there'd be plans for "HS3" from London to Exeter, possibly via Bath (or a spur to Bath / Bristol). The SW is desperately poorly connected at the moment.
From a heritage point of view, the tunnel boring will have next to no effect on archeology in the area if done deep enough to be below those remains.
I really hope so, however I’ve read a lot on the subject as I want to be fully informed about this. Especially what professor David jacques has to say and I’m afraid it won’t be the case. He is head of archeology related to tunnel plans. I believe that the 6000 year old site of blick mead and its springs about one mile from Stonehenge, will be irreversibly damaged due to water table drop. It already has been by the highways agency, apparently, during their initial work.
Lots of info on the web about this.
Doesn’t bode well, really.
The problem is Stonehenge is just one part of the landscape with multiple other sites in the vicinity and probably more undiscovered. So would want to see some informed comments about the risk of the boring approach to losing history.
I don’t really get what the fuss about Stonehenge is, sure it’s quite big but there are bloody hundreds of stone circles up here. It’s like the Neolithic dogshitbaginatree
The tunnels are going to destroy known archaeological stuff i believe. Thats why its been constantly rejected.
All of this is true. The stones are iconic but are only a fraction of the wider historical landscape - most of which is pretty much hiding in plain site - just a case of knowing what you're looking for.
However, we can't keep everything. To say that we're not going to improve society just because we're destroying parts of history that are already in abundance within this same landscape is just non-sensical to me.
So,the questions are - how much of the past do you need to preserve ? who decides what are the important bits ? what usable function do they serve as heritage ?
So,the questions are – how much of the past do you need to preserve ? who decides what are the important bits ? what usable function do they serve as heritage ?
1. The bits tourists and film crews will pay for coffee while taking selfies beside.
2. Accountants.
3. See answers 1 and 2.
This should explain some of the issues
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001bykc?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile
Anyone want to bet this is either dropped oncost grounds orchanged to cut and cover?
"Just getting across the junction with the A303 heading south on the A350 to Salisbury" .. .Think you mean A360. That roundabout is pretty much my least favourite in the country, drives me nuts. No one is able to follow the white lines and stay in lane. Travelling East the junction has 3 lanes, the left is straight on or left, the middle straight on and merge on the other side, the right is to turn right. So pretty much everyone uses the middle and right hand lanes to go straight on, and then there's a 3-way merge on the other side with ****s trying to push in and get one car ahead. I was in a hire Astra one time in the middle lane going straight, when the car on the left of me started drifting into my lane, I had to swerve into the right lane to avoid a crash. And she had the cheek to beep me. There's something very wrong with the design of that roundabout.
Shame the dual carriageway will cut a swathe through the pretty countryside north of Winterbourne Stoke, but then again a bypass couldn't come sooner. I guess the idea is continuous dual carriageway which is all fine and dandy, but travelling West I'd imagine it will just move the mile-long merging queue to after Deptford where it goes back to a single carriageway, so what's the point?
Waste of money, 1 point whatever billion (which is sure to increase) so mr "I got stuff to do" will possibly have a 2 minute (at most) shorter journey time..before he gets to the next traffic hold -up..
If you dont like being in traffic hold-ups drive less, if your mission is time critical leave a few minutes early and stop being part of the problem/ "incessant whining entitled asshole snivelling" 😉
Shocking. Firmly oppose this destruction and it shows a total lack of respect for our history and those who have gone before us. It really is a special landscape and doesn't deserve this.
what destruction, the plans aren't even finalised? Have you been to the A3 tunnel at the punchbowl, it has improved the landscape and greenspace massively
Destruction of the archaeology
The train to Exeter is already quicker than driving from London. The trouble is that 303 traffic is generally not driven by people wanting to go to Exeter, they're going further west at which point the train goes to s..t.
Other than this bit the 303 is (from memory) dualled pretty much the whole way to the m5 turning at which point traffic drops right off anyway
5 minute vid from archaeologist Prof Mike Parker Pearson who may be familiar to some:
"The right to drive your car does not trump the right to clean air / safety / environment / historical sites"
(Delete as applicable)
Destruction of the archaeology
I'd agree if it was a cut and cover but if they bore through as they did at Hindhead
https://nationalhighways.co.uk/our-roads/a303-stonehenge/archaeology-and-the-a303/
Interesting video - so the contention isn't actually against a tunnel, more that it needs to be longer. OK, that's new to me
Once the first time machine gets built we'll look back on all this and laugh. Then get slaughtered by evil future robots building an intergalactic bypass.
Shocking. Firmly oppose this destruction and it shows a total lack of respect for our history and those who have gone before us. It really is a special landscape and doesn’t deserve this.
What destruction? What is currently there is destroying the whole aspect of the entire site, the cut and cover proposal would have been highly destructive to any archaeological remains, however what is proposed is a twin-bore tunnel, moved further away from the stones than the 303 currently is, and will be bored by tunnelling machines 40 metres below ground, that’s about 131 feet! If you can point to any significant archaeological remains buried that deep below ground, I thing the local archaeological society would likely be fascinated.
The entrances will be two miles away, which was requested instead of the mile and a quarter originally proposed.
You’re right in that it is a special landscape, and it doesn’t deserve the situation it currently finds itself in, with thousands of cars grinding slowly past every day, creating a polluting eyesore.
yes; yes they are. world heritage site mate.
No, drivers are required to pay attention to their driving, not rubbernecking an archaeological site. I’m sure the Highway Code has something about it.
Destruction of the archaeology
Tj, do try and keep up, the whole point is to avoid destruction of archeology, putting a tunnel 130 feet below ground by boring it, and increasing the length to two miles avoids all the issues raised against a cut and cover tunnel one and a quarter miles long, which anyone with a bit of common sense would agree would have been horribly destructive and intrusive.
Firmly of the belief that the biggest crime would be to do nothing.
The road as it stands at the moment is detrimental to everyone - dirty, polluting, noisy, dangerous and a scar across the precious WHS landscape.
The example cited above of the Devils Punchbowl shows what can be done with thought and sensitivity - which it seems this scheme has in spades. those opposing it don't really want a solution, nothing would satisfy them, there would always be another reason why whatever was proposed would be impossible.
The road as it stands at the moment is detrimental to everyone – dirty, polluting, noisy, dangerous
There are countless examples demonstrating that building more roads and infrastructure to tackle congestion doesn't achieve what it sets out to, merely attracts more use. We should be building infrastructure that encourages people out of their cars, especially at sites such as the one around Stonehenge
We should be building infrastructure that encourages people out of their cars, especially at sites such as the one around Stonehenge
The challenge is that the 303 is one of two main routes to the SW (it's that or the delights of the M5). You'd need infrastructure that can make it appealing to do a car-free trip (with kids, tents, surfboards, SUPs or whatever) to all the nooks and crannies of Devon and Cornwall, then to move people around when they got there. Any suggestions for that? Perhaps you can make it less appealing for thousands of people to head SW every summer, and take tourist revenue from what's already a surprisingly deprived area in parts. There are no easy solutions here.
You're never going to get an unbiased opinion from an archaeologist on this topic. But I doubt there can be much undiscovered archaeology left due to the amount of digs that have been carried out along the route over the last 20 years.
The current A303 will be developed into a PRoW with links to the north & south, with no road crossings.
Any suggestions for that?
Nope, but then I'm not a civil engineer. But I know (and you know as well, as you're clearly not stupid) that building more roads doesn't ease traffic congestion, in fact; it makes it worse. And I can't believe you're genuinely arguing that we must allow for the potential destruction of either priceless artefacts, or unimaginable knowledge about the earliest history of Britain, that may impact how we understand the earliest settlements in Europe so that folks going on holiday don't have to use the M5 as it's just beastly certain times a year.
Are you?
building more roads doesn’t ease traffic congestion, in fact; it makes it worse
Nobody has proposed building more roads, just moving the existing one.
Nope, but then I’m not a civil engineer. But I know (and you know as well, as you’re clearly not stupid) that building more roads doesn’t ease traffic congestion, in fact; it makes it worse
at pinchpoints like this, that's not true. In general, a better road network increases traffic, and that will probably happen here, however the congestion will not be worse (at stonehenge) as its going from a major pinchpoint to a free-flowing road in a tunnel.
I suspect more people care about going on holiday to the southwest than care about possibly, maybe damaging some artifacts that aren't known about today.
Are you?
No I'm not - (#devilsadvocate) are you arguing that spending 35 million quid on an archaeological project in an area that's unlikely to ever get that much attention again won't make some fascinating finds and help our understanding of the earliest history of Britain? Or are you suggesting that the M5 isn't already choked as well, so encouraging traffic over that way will mean more capacity is needed on that road with concomitant spend and upheaval for those affected. So public transport infrastructure isn't up to the job, reducing tourism isn't acceptable, increasing road capacity isn't acceptable, digging up historic sites/ancient woodlands/newts isn't acceptable, the current A303 isn't acceptable...
potential destruction of either priceless artefacts, or unimaginable knowledge about the earliest history of Britain
Destruction? As Crossrail and now HS2 have included large scale archeological digs (eg: uncovering layers of london history which wierdly enough, Swampy and co didnt bother to do when they were digging all of their home made tunnels around Euston...)as part of the construction process, I simply cant believe that the A303 tunnel project wont also include this.
Ooh, look! They're already doing this: Archaeologists unearth bronze age graves at Stonehenge tunnel site
Id reckon it will be the biggest ever archeological dig on Salisbury plain.
I can’t believe you’re genuinely arguing that we must allow for the potential destruction of either priceless artefacts, or unimaginable knowledge about the earliest history of Britain, that may impact how we understand the earliest settlements in Europe
It won't be destroyed though - if there's anything there. It will be dug, catalogued, studied and curated as appropriate.
There's a great BBC documentary about the 303 called Highway to the Sun. It's a pretty ancient RoW that's been used, adapted and modernised many times over history. It's as much a part of the landscape as any other feature.
so that folks going on holiday don’t have to use the M5 as it’s just beastly certain times a year.
It's about more than that. A sizeable amount of people live in the SW peninsula, it's not just a holiday park. Some of those areas are amongst the poorest in Europe. The only access in/out of the peninsular other than the 303 is via Bristol. If levelling up means anything at all then basic transport infrastructure has to be a part of that.
For the money being spent why not just bypass the entire are by several miles?
It won’t be destroyed though – if there’s anything there. It will be dug, catalogued, studied and curated as appropriate.
ie. removed from the site or tangibly lost forever.
Proper digs last years, much longer than a commercial or even government contractor will tolerate, at best you'll get a slap dash dig and sift. Look at the Ness of Brodgar dig site and how long that's taken.
I live in Somerset and am careful to time my drives on that section of the A303 to when it is (or should be) quiet, rather than add an extra 1/4 or 1/2 hour. I’ve also been waiting 40 years for it to be tunnelled or diverted, so my thought is more that I won’t see it complete! The removal of the stretch of the A360 and junction has been a small but notable improvement.
Wouldn't a tall hedge stop people looking at it when driving past?
ie. removed from the site
And ? Why would that be a problem ? There's lots of artefacts in the Stonehenge visitors centre
What purpose does heritage serve if it's buried underground, undiscovered and without utility ?
Seems like a win/win. Dig an area of the landscape that would otherwise probably remain unstudied and solve on of the major issues of the 303 at the same time.
Seems to me that one aspect that's lost in this argument is that the 303 is an integral part of the cultural landscape. Cultural landscapes are living environments, it's not all about time depth and the unchallenged views of Heritage professionals.
And ? Why would that be a problem ? There’s lots of artefacts in the Stonehenge visitors centre
What purpose does heritage serve if it’s buried underground, undiscovered and without utility ?
Archaeology has developed massively over the last couple of hundred years, so much that digs even 50 years ago look primitive. If you destroy the context of a site now then you remove any way of interpreting that site in the future when more sophisticated techniques and technology are available.
I can’t believe you’re genuinely arguing that we must allow for the potential destruction of either priceless artefacts, or unimaginable knowledge about the earliest history of Britain, that may impact how we understand the earliest settlements in Europe
You do know we are talking about Stonehenge, right?
Archaeology has developed massively over the last couple of hundred years, so much that digs even 50 years ago look primitive. If you destroy the context of a site now then you remove any way of interpreting that site in the future when more sophisticated techniques and technology are available.
Yes, that's what I was getting at.
You do know we are talking about Stonehenge, right?
No, pretty sure the road is going somewhere else. Point being the area is awash with archaeological sites.
I’ll be surprised if english heritage don’t claim the tunnels as theirs and charge admission.
theotherjonv
what destruction, the plans aren’t even finalised? Have you been to the A3 tunnel at the punchbowl, it has improved the landscape and greenspace massively
Improved? It's absolutely disgusting.
The local freaks go on about damage by mountain bikes (having made it impossible to get to any proper MTB without using a footpath) and there is this complete disgusting mess at the bottom.
You do know we are talking about Stonehenge, right?
Actually we arent unless the tunnel project is rather more radical than I thought. We are talking about the landscape around Stonehenge which is part of a larger archaeological site.
And I can’t believe you’re genuinely arguing that we must allow for the potential destruction of either priceless artefacts, or unimaginable knowledge about the earliest history of Britain, that may impact how we understand the earliest settlements in Europe so that folks going on holiday don’t have to use the M5 as it’s just beastly certain times a year.
What does priceless mean, it's worth what the nation can sell it for and why should the average taxpayer give a shit about how "we" understand the earliest settlements in Europe?? .... how does understanding the earliest settlements in Europe relate to the average taxpayer paying their gas/electric, mortgage, rent or feeding kids?
By "we" do you mean some stuck up toffs at a posh university ???
unimaginable knowledge about the earliest history of Britain
So you can't even imagine what this knowledge is but how it it relevant to the average tax payer?
What does priceless mean, it’s worth what the nation can sell it for and why should the average taxpayer give a shit about how “we” understand the earliest settlements in Europe?? …. how does understanding the earliest settlements in Europe relate to the average taxpayer paying their gas/electric, mortgage, rent or feeding kids?
By “we” do you mean some stuck up toffs at a posh university ???
Wow.
If ever there was an example of knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing, this is it.
squirrelking
Wow.
If ever there was an example of knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing, this is it.
So I take it you are completely unable to show any value to this posh academic bullshit to the average tax payer?
So why should they fund it?
Why not have a referendum?
Bulldoze Stonehenge and reduce duty of fags and beer to zero or spend money fixing a building that fell down millennia ago?
Wouldn’t a tall hedge stop people looking at it when driving past?
I was at Shrewton Parish Council meeting, a few years ago, with English Heritage and Highways Agency folk present, as well as the local BBC.
I asked the very same question and the unbelievable response was that it wouldn't have looked that way in 3000BC, or whatever date it was made!!
I also made the point that it was clear that in the view of EH, the lives and safety of the living were of secondary importance to the artifacts of unknown dead with no real significance. They didn't argue otherwise.
It's a very dangerous stretch of road, particularly with the A344 closed and all manner of traffic tries to navigate the awful Longbarrow Roundabout, or just block it regardless. I've lost count of how many accidents have occurred on that road. Some form of improvement is way overdue and EH have some responsibility here too.
mikertroid
I asked the very same question and the unbelievable response was that it wouldn’t have looked that way in 3000BC, or whatever date it was made!!
I also made the point that it was clear that in the view of EH, the lives and safety of the living were of secondary importance to the artifacts of unknown dead with no real significance. They didn’t argue otherwise.
You should persist and ask for a pound value per life and value of non fatal injuries vs a fact based value for not having a hedge.
You should persist and ask for a pound value per life and value of non fatal injuries vs a fact based value for not having a hedge.
Bit late now.... think the tunnel will be a convenient, if expensive, alternative to a hedge 😎
Bit late now…. think the tunnel will be a convenient, if expensive, alternative to a hedge 😎
Well the channel Tunnel cost 8 British lives in its construction. (2 French)
Another local here.
That bloody A303 ruins one of my favourite gravel loops - when trying to get across from the Woodfords side, to the rest of the byway, you can stand waiting to cross the 303 for what seems like....minutes! I've tried really eyeballing the slow drivers, but non will yield!
Get tunneling and spending!
its going from a major pinchpoint to a free-flowing road in a tunnel.
In the very short term maybe, in the medium-long term it'll be a traffic jam in a tunnel, (as that's how traffic works) and all that money will have been wasted.
So I take it you are completely unable to show any value to this posh academic bullshit to the average tax payer?
So why should they fund it?Why not have a referendum?
Bulldoze Stonehenge and reduce duty of fags and beer to zero or spend money fixing a building that fell down millennia ago?
You are my local MP and I claim my £5
In the very short term maybe, in the medium-long term it’ll be a traffic jam in a tunnel, (as that’s how traffic works)
Strange i don't think I've ever been a traffic jam in the Hindehead tunnel on the A3 but before that had been in many jams when it was a single carriageway.
