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Every time I read a line or learning from stoic philosophy it seems ridiculously relevant to the modern world we live in (which in itself is both weird and wonderful).
Therfore reaching out to the learned world of STW For any decent books or blogs that provide some further insight on it.
Dont really want to be reading Greek classics or anything hugely intellectual but just some stuff that can educate me and that is relevant and useable in modern life.
There was a big thread on this a few months ago, not sure if the search function would find it
Ryan Holiday. I've enjoyed his books.
The Venn diagram above is very much like the serenity prayer, which is close to some aspects of Stoicism, and a very sensible way to look at things.
"Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference."
I think the 'worry about what you can control' is something learned with age. I tend to go for this mind set these days. Otherwise you put yourself under undue stress - I certainly did when younger. I'm more like, well, I can't change that, or influence it. Does it affect me, nope. Leave it.
A man in full by Tom Wolfe is a novel that features a Trumpian main character who is ultimately influenced by Stoic philosophy. Not a bad read.
I think the 'worry about what you can control' is something learned with age.
Yes it's possible to pass down knowledge to a younger person but not wisdom. That has to be developed (or not) by each individual.
I'd say it's more pragmatism than stoicism..
But it's just words and it's too easy to get bogged down with too much navel gazing.
The top layer stuff is easy to digest but when you actually read it, you start to wonder why you're wasting time reading it, as most of it is basic logic.
Thank you for listening to my Ted talk!
As opposed to Plato, that is the most pernickety and dull thing I've ever tried to read, it's seriously a slog to get to the next page, never mind chapter. I do not reccomend!
Probably great if you're an insomniac, though.. Plato will put you to sleep.
Fossy, if everyone throws in the towel and "leaves it" when they reach mid life don't expect any change for the better. Do something, I suspect doing something will make you happier than philosophical navel gazing.😋
If the world is in the state it's in it's because people leave it rather than working out how they can act positively.
People moan about Putin but still use oil and gas.
People moan about ICE greenhousing and stinking cars and drive them themselves.
If there's a petition to sign or a demo to go to they stay at home and nearly half can't be arsed to vote.
They know sugary salty processed over packaged foods are bad for them but still stuff themselves with them.
Exercise is good for you and the NHS but the sofa is so comfy.
Social media beckons you to fill it with flights and flags and tourist traps. Do yo really enjoy all that faff and stress and rip off or are there things you really find enjoyable and satisfying. Use your immagination, you don't need influencers and marketeers.
When did you meet a fit healthy active philosopher full of the joys of life doing things to make their world and the world in general better?
Don't consume philosophy, think for yourselves. 🙂
Happy by Derren Brown is based around stoicism, he bangs on a bit but it's a pretty decent read. 🙂
https://fs.blog/knowledge-project-podcast/william-irvine/
There's a few podcasts on here about Stoicism. A couple with Ryan Halliday that are quite interesting conversations. Worth sticking with as there's always a few gems in there. I got put off by hearing the trend for Stoicism being descrbed as 'tech bro philosophy' but it also seems like a more recent-times development of Taoism. There will be something we can learn from in there, I think the mistake is thinking one branch of any of it is the go-to answer.
I do feel Stoicism is useful for certain things life throws at you but it does have it's limitations.
The kind of existential crisis that can creep up at any time but most commonly in middle age, for example. Stoicism's answer is to ignore it. Still struggling? Ignore it harder. By the way, I can also sell you a series of worksheets and courses that might help...
At some point the train that is the pointlessness and absurdity of life is going to reach the section of track you are tied to. To a certain extent ignoring the train and making the most of what you can control is great but at some point the train is going to be impossible to ignore.
Then it's time to read The Myth of Sisyphus. Good luck with that...
Don't consume philosophy, think for yourselves. 🙂
Can't argue with that. Be a broad church and if you do want to follow Stoicism, be careful not to file too much as being out of your control because it's a easy way out of dealing with it.
To borrow Big John's quote "Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference"
It may come second, but it's just as important.
Edukator
If the world is in the state it's in it's because people leave it rather than working out how they can act positively.
People moan about Putin but still use oil and gas.
People moan about ICE greenhousing and stinking cars and drive them themselves.
If there's a petition to sign or a demo to go to they stay at home and nearly half can't be arsed to vote.
They know sugary salty processed over packaged foods are bad for them but still stuff themselves with them.
Exercise is good for you and the NHS but the sofa is so comfy.
In fairness, we are all hypocrites if we dig deep enough. Life is inherently a compromise and the best we can do is make sure those compromises are as benign as possible, both to ourselves and those they effect
That's what I attempt to do anyway.
I think you've misunderstood me. I said "do something", that's very stoic philosophy.
I made a list of things I do that most people don't, you'll note all those things are very stoic if you are on the doer side.
And I posted to rail against "leave it" which is defeatist, nihilist and not very stoic at all.
The OP doesn't want to be reading greek but reading about half a page of the original Greek concept is about all you need and enough to tell you you don't need to read modern day books about to understand it, books which probably distort it in their exploitation of it more than they explain it.
Sure, only worry about things you can do something about, but don't underestimate what you can do.
Dont really want to be reading Greek classics or anything hugely intellectual but just some stuff that can educate me and that is relevant and useable in modern life.
The Meditations of Marcus Aurelius are very accessible, highly relevant and available free. I honestly think they're as good as or better than any modern take on stoicism.
When did you meet a fit healthy active philosopher full of the joys of life doing things to make their world and the world in general better?
How many philosophers have you actually met?
I know a few personally and they are all active, engaged individuals.
Philip Ebert is a great example. A real outdoors guy who has done great work on risk awareness, perception and communication in the outdoors as well as more traditional philosophy.
When did you meet a fit healthy active philosopher full of the joys of life doing things to make their world and the world in general better?
How many philosophers have you actually met?
I know a few personally and they are all active, engaged individuals.
Philip Ebert is a great example. A real outdoors guy who has done great work on risk awareness, perception and communication in the outdoors as well as more traditional philosophy.
A few other examples of philosophers doing things to make the world better that immediately spring to mind would be Mary Warnock's work on the right of children to be educated according to need and Bertrand Russell's tireless campaigning for nuclear disarmament.
Bertrand Russel also campaigned to stop the Americans entering WW1, campaigned against rearming before WWII and smoked a pipe. Yeah the guy had some nice ideas, in a dirty nasty world. Peace and love man. 😉
Europe is still consuming Russian gas and it's funding Putin's war. Britain is part of the European gas network. Everyone in Europe including Britain who stops burning gas reduces Putins funds by the value of the gas they don't use. Ditto oil.
People moan about Putin but still use oil and gas.
And that has what to do with Putin?
I was quoting someone else matey.
Everyone in Europe including Britain who stops burning gas reduces Putins funds by the value of the gas they don't use
No they don't, that's just silly
Silly you might think it but 1/ I'm right 2/ this a thread on stoic philosphy and nihilist rubbishing of positive action has no place here. 🙂
I could heat with electricity in Winter in France claiming that only 3% of French generation is from fossil fuels. But given the interconnectivity of networks in reality if I use electricity it means that the extra demand will be satisified by a gas or coal fired station somewhere in Europe.
Besides, doing things to cut my carbon footprint that also reduce dependance on dictator produced fossil fuels is a positive action that makes me happy = stoic.
this a thread on stoic philosphy and nihilist rubbishing of positive action has no place here.
I don't think stoicism really has a good answer to nihilism, beyond just ignore it. Just ignore it real hard.
One of the things some people struggle with is accepting just how little ability they have to influence the course of their own lives, let alone society as a whole. I would imagine it's a bit different if you are the Emperor of Rome. What Marcus Aurelius could influence is quite a bit more than what Joe Bloggs of 4 Dead End Lane, Milton Keynes can influence.
If Stoicism works for you that's great. For many of us, coming to terms with our ultimate insignificance is going to take a bit more than just trying to ignore it harder.
I think we do need an answer as to why Nihilism isn't the answer, but we have to admit they have a point. Ultimately the human story is going to end the same way (sooner or later) and neither our individual actions or our collective actions are going to make any difference to the fact this will all disappear as if it never even existed.
Ultimately we can influence nothing other than our own reaction to our insignificance.
Edukator, gas may be fungible but your statement is still just plainly silly as you might realise if you spend a few seconds thinking about it.
My understanding of stoicism is its not about ignoring stuff. Its about focusing on the things that you can impact on and and deriving purpose from those. It requires a work / productivity ethic and achieving a healthy mind and body through positive strong action. Its certainly not "try not to think about it, put netflix on"
And you still haven't explained why, thecaptain, you're just throwing gratuitous insult around without any justification. You're the one who's called bollocks; it's for you to prove me wrong rather than just say I'm silly.
Europe is burning Russian gaz, if enough people stop using gas (incuding in the UK) Europe won't need Russian gas: simples not silly.
Quite apart from every bit of gas that stays in the ground is a positive that slows our approach to a deadly Cretaceous climate and atmosphere. Unfortunately most people think like Brucewee and don't see that as they are part of the problem they can do something about it.
https://gml.noaa.gov/ccgg/trends/
Your original point about any gas consumption funding Putin is nonsense. Your later points about reducing gas usage overall isn't.
With energy consumed via a decentralised grid, you pay for production, not consumption. i.e. you pay a company to produce the energy you will consume.
I've had Ecotricity electricity for about 20 years. I can't guarantee that every last electron that I've consumed has come from renewable sources, and not just from a gas turbine, as all electricity produced just goes into the grid.
However, I can guarantee that for electron consumed I have paid for an equivalent electron to be produced from a renewable source.
This is the same for gas - as long as you pay a company that is not using Russian oil or gas to produce your gas, it doesn't really matter whose actual gas you are consuming.
I don't have gas anymore. I have a heat pump, solar panels and Ecotricity.
Your original point about any gas consumption funding Putin is nonsense.
Well prove it then! Because if you didn't burn the stuff Germany wouldn't need to buy it from him.
Oh come on it's obvious isn't it?
If there was one single seller of gas then you could argue that a single customer buying £1 less gas would be putting £1 less in the pocket of that one seller.
If there were 10,000 sellers of gas then would you claim that a single customer buying £1 less gas would be putting £1 less in the pocket of each of the 10,000 sellers? If not, how do you get to define which seller lost the customer's £1?
My understanding of stoicism is its not about ignoring stuff. Its about focusing on the things that you can impact on and and deriving purpose from those. It requires a work / productivity ethic and achieving a healthy mind and body through positive strong action. Its certainly not "try not to think about it, put netflix on"
Sure, and like I said for some stuff it's great.
The problem comes when you start to think, 'What can I impact?' When you really start to think about it the answer is you can impact nothing. There is no lasting impact. That's the really big picture problem.
Like it or not, humans are always going to think about why we are here and what our impact is as an individual. If that's what keeps you up at night, ie simply finding a reason to even continue existing, then Stoicism's answer is to ignore the question. Without something to give their life a meaning many are going to struggle.
And then you're into Existentialism, which for Stoics would be mostly navel gazing and would do nothing to ensure the empire didn't experience famine. I really like Camus but even he never really came up with a final answer but I doubt there is a final answer so that's fine. But you've got to appreciate someone who on the first page of their book writes:
"There is only one truly serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide.Judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy".
I find Stoicism lacking as a philosophy. As the basis for a self-help course it's excellent, but to me the big philosophical question is why do we continue getting up every morning.
Someone said above that Nihilism has no place on a Stoicism thread and I'd agree. Stoicism really has nothing to argue against Nihilism (unless you subscribe to the idea that there is a 'plan' but then you'd be better served finding a religion to follow).
I don't really have a good answer to why Nihilism isn't correct but I feel it's not correct and if an answer that explains why exists then it probably belongs somewhere in Existentialism and definitely not in Stoicism.
I suppose it may be the difference between a philosophy for the hows and whys of the world vs a philosophy for how to live your life.
To me a good stoic can affect change and have impact i.e. go and help out at a shelter or foodbank. BUT they probably wouldnt beat themselves up about world hunger etc
If not, how do you get to define which seller lost the customer's £1?
In this case the seller that gets dropped when demand drops: Putin. Europe is only buying gas from Putin because there isn't enough available from elsewhere. If demand drops thanks to my (and hopefully your) efforts then Putin can be cut off
Good example, blackflag.
Read all the Moomin books. Whenever you face difficulty ask yourself “what would Moominmama do”? You won’t go wrong.
To me a good stoic can affect change and have impact i.e. go and help out at a shelter or foodbank. BUT they probably wouldnt beat themselves up about world hunger etc
I guess it depends on what you mean by impact.
Marcus Aurelius, when faced with the prospect of widespread hunger in Rome due to crop failure, would have a great deal he could do to minimize the effects of this hunger. If I were an ordinary Roman I'd be reassured that he was focusing all his attention on mitigating the coming problems and not spending his time complaining about the lack of rain.
As an individual today, faced with increasing levels of inequality and widespread hunger, you're faced with a wide variety of ways you could act that could 'help'. In almost all these cases the impact would be pretty much exactly the same if you took these actions as if you didn't. When faced with the evidence that no matter what actions you take the outcomes are going to be the same it's difficult to not conclude that Nihilism is the correct viewpoint.
Some people instead dedicate their lives to one cause, sacrificing almost everything else in their lives so that they can dedicate themselves to making a small difference, even in the knowledge that difference is going to be nothing. By this point you've gone beyond Stoicism and into Absurdism.
It's difficult to find examples of people living life by Absurdist principles as it's not as fashionable as Stoicism, but I like the idea of consciously embracing the futility of an action and then wholeheartedly doing it anyway safe in the knowledge that it's not necessarily the impact (because we already know there won't be any impact) that you rely on for satisfaction but instead you gain satisfaction from the Sisyphean act.
Saying all that, one place I do find Stoicism very useful is in accepting that my body (and my mind) are always going to let me down. In lots of small ways over the years and then eventually in one pretty big way. Stoicism really helps in acknowledging this and focusing on what I can control (keeping myself healthy as far as possible), rather than the sack of meat and hormones I can't control.
Ultimately, that comes back to what I first said which is that all you really can influence in this world (unless you happen to be a billionaire Oligarch or World leader) is your reaction to what is going on around you (and even if you are a billionaire oligarch or world leader the Universe is still going to end up in the same place whether you exist or not).
Anyway, is this guy a Stoic, an Absurdist, or just someone who didn't realise what he was doing was 'impossible'?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jadav_Payeng
People moan about Putin but still use oil and gas.
The UK hasn't bought Russian gas for well over a year or more. 80% or so comes from either Norway, or the North Sea. The rest is from a whole host of producers (Angola, USA) none of whom are Russia.
The problem comes when you start to think, 'What can I impact?' When you really start to think about it the answer is you can impact nothing. There is no lasting impact.
For the Greeks philosophy was a tool to allow oneself to live a virtuous life. To be virtuous, one has to practice the four cardinal virtues, Prudence, Fortitude, Temperance and Justice. As @Blackflag notes the modern interpretation of "keep buggering on" is at odds with the original school of a universe that operates according to reason. The universe make lack meaning, but by creating your own you give yourself purpose,
When you burn gas in the UK Germany buys it from from Putin because there isn't enough from the rest of the world to go round, Nickc, jeeez some poeple are deliberately hard of reading when they want to be. Four posts with the same message on this thread and still some people choose not to get it. 🙄 If the UK doesn't by from Norway, Norway will have enough for Germany, France and the rest of Europe.
The universe make lack meaning, but by creating your own you give yourself purpose,
Then I believe we are beyond Stoicism and into Existentialism, starting with Søren Kierkegaard who believed that a leap of faith into the hands of God was what was needed and on to Camus who believed we should confront the futility and rebel against it by throwing ourselves into our Sisyphean tasks.
Where Stoicism falls down is the concept of Logos. The idea that the Universe is fundamentally rational and driven by reason. Meaning is innate and not something for us to worry our heads about.
As we've grown as a species I think we have moved beyond the idea that the Universe is in any way rational or driven by reason. It's just pure futile chaos.
I don't think the question of how to confront the futility of existence has ever really been answered for me. Camus got closest, imo, but his philosophy still leaves an unsatisfactory feeling.
Ultimately I believe Stoicism provides a good basis for helping to focus on what you can control, but in a big universe where you can't just assume the gods have a greater plan that gives us meaning, it's a basis that needs to be built on.
I believe there are two misinterpretations of Stoicism. The first is the 'stiff upper lip just carry on without emotion' that it came to be associated with in the English language.
The second mis-interpretation is where a lot of its current popularity comes from where Stoicism-bros try to sell you courses implying that if you can master the tenets of Stoicism and live a virtuous life then you too can become the modern equivalent of an emperor of Rome (there's a reason there's a lot of overlap between tech-bros and stoicism-bros).
For those of us who don't want to be Emperor of Rome and are just trying to find a reason to exist I find Stoicism lacking. But, like I said, as a basis for accepting the lack of control we have of our own bodies it's excellent.
but in a big universe where you can't just assume the gods have a greater plan
How d'you know that 'they/him' don't? (joke, let's not turn this into theology)
The beauty, the simplicity of Logos is that if you're willing to accept that is the case or at the very least a decent enough starting point as any other complex theory or explanation of everything and how it operates (or indeed, doesn't), then as far as you can [within a complex system that one cannot hope to grasp], it is still a 'good thing' to live as virtuously a life you can, as far as that goes as an individual in this particular civilisation at this particular time vis @Edukator exemptions.
The purpose of Stoicism isn't to understand or control the greater whole, it is to live happily within it.
Jesus @Edukator, you don't understand my post, but you're certain I'm attacking you? That's some over-developed persecution complex you've got going there...I'm not attacking you by the way.
The purpose of Stoicism isn't to understand or control the greater whole, it is to live happily within it.
Yes, but this assumes you are prepared to accept the Universe as being fundamentally rational, logical, and just. For those of us who aren't prepared to accept that all you can do is ignore the fact we are living in an irrational, illogical and unjust Universe. Ignore it real hard.
Which, like I said, is where Stoicism fell down for me and led me to keep exploring. Still haven't found 'it' yet but I suspect the important part is the journey.
Yes, but this assumes you are prepared to accept the Universe as being fundamentally rational, logical, and just.
Does it? The argument for the opposite is also possible, no?
Does it? The argument for the opposite is also possible, no?
Logos is quite an important tenet of Stoicism. You live in a rational logical universe and therefore if you live in accordance with Stoic virtue then you are living in accordance with the Universe.
It could be you just ignore this but then if you are struggling with meaning in your life then Stoicism doesn't really have an answer, other than to ignore it and focus on yourself. If you can just focus on yourself then great but if you always feel like you are trying to push down or run away from feelings of existential dread then another approach might be better.
I think Stoicism struggles for arguments against Nihilism beyond tautologies centered around Stoic virtue. If you are looking for answers to the question, 'What's the point?' I think you need to look somewhere other than Stoicism.
The geologist in me knows that it's taken an incalculable number of fluke events to even be walking this planet so I'm not looking for anything rational logical or just in the universe. It's worth acting so I and others can make the most of those flukes.
That's some over-developed persecution complex you've got going there...I'm not attacking you by the way
That's almost worth book marking ! 🙂
but this assumes you are prepared to accept the Universe as being fundamentally rational, logical, and just.
Stoicism's "universe of reason" asks you to accept that the universe contains a set assertable facts and from that you can deduce rationality and logos -logic (be they casual or conditional etc)- it has nothing to say about whether it's just or what the function or state of the universe is; chaotic or otherwise. Having said that, these are Greeks, so they both believe in Logos, and that fact that the Gods apparently live atop a very accessible mountain, so they could go and check and be back in time for tea, but never seem to bother...so it's probs wise to keep looking for a universal philosophy outside of their tradition.
The geologist in me knows that it's taken an incalculable number of fluke events to even be walking this planet so I'm not looking for anything rational logical or just in the universe. It's worth acting so I and others can make the most of those flukes.
Aye, it's what I take from experiences in conflict. People do irrational things, shit happens, no plan survives first contact so you have to be agile and flexible in your thinking to make best of that situation and achieve the intended outcome.
If you spend too much time trying to figure out the 'why' in that moment then you're burning time and are going to be further on the back foot and as the situation overtakes you, find you are beyond a point of positive control. And that can have quite terminal consequences.
As for existential dread, not a curse I have to deal with. I recognise my career path has unburdened me of such concerns, in it's place it has left me with some other conundrums to wrestle with. But they are manageable and ones I wouldn't change if I'm honest.
If you spend too much time trying to figure out the 'why' in that moment then you're burning time and are going to be further on the back foot and as the situation overtakes you, and that can have quite terminal consequences.
I don't think any philosophical belief takes the front seat when you are in a genuine life or death situation, does it?
The question I was struggling with recently was, if my life is going to be on balance more painful than joyful (or even more painful than neutral) what possible reason could I have to not just end it? I guess it's the kind of question that is going to plague you more after the life or death event which is the state you are going to spend most of your time in*.
I got really into Stoicism for a while but I found the Stoic virtue arguments to be tautologies. If you live your life according to Stoic virtue you will be content because you are living in accordance with Stoic nature (Logos).
'And if Stoic nature doesn't exist?'
'Stop being a Nihilist!', came the unsatisfactory answer.
Some people can get by fine either accepting there is a meaning they can't see (ie, faith) or they just learn to ignore it. Or they just aren't really bothered by the question in the first place.
Some of us just can't or won't accept that and have to look for answers elsewhere.
*Or at least I would hope it was
I don't think any philosophical belief takes the front seat when you are in a genuine life or death situation, does it?
No, but the principles of control, action, etc are still extant, just like emotions are.
You also have the added complexity influenced by leadership and responsibility, either of self and/or others.
But the severity of the situation can compel acceptance and positive action, so why when we have time do some slip from those principles and drift into rougher waters?
Some of us just can't or won't accept that and have to look for answers elsewhere.
Maybe the answer isn't to be found in philosophies?
Or is fitting things in a neat box, even if it's marked 'chaos', an innate human need?
I agree Stoicism is imperfect and although on the surface it resonates with people, its also flawed in many aspects and doesn't map neatly over the world today and what we know of it.
what possible reason could I have to not just end it?
Masochism ? Any cyclist knows there's a certain joy in suffering 🙃
I read some Flannery O'Connor which contains and odd mix of nihilists, idealists, good and bad. And a good read. Try her for answers or more to the point absence there of.
But the severity of the situation can compel acceptance and positive action, so why when we have time do some slip from those principles and drift into rougher waters?
Because when you are well fed, have shelter, and don't have anyone actively trying to kill you your mind finally has time to wander and you think to yourself, 'Why am I here?' which for some people, who have a tendency to go down rabbit holes, can be a very dangerous question.
I think the answer to your question is that we are all different and need different tools to live the best lives we can.
Maybe the answer isn't to be found in philosophies?
But again, we're back to the confront or ignore problem. Ignore requires some degree of faith which I simply don't have.
If you want to confront the meaningless of existence then I think philosophy is the only game in town.
Why am I here?
Easy, a fluke of millions of years of evolution. A genetic code string that got this far and may go further if you wish. Mix hedonism, carpe diem and enough forward thinking to avoid dropping oneself in the shit, and life's a ball. Anyhow I'm sleepy after swimming and the coffee cup is empty so time for a siesta. Night night.
Just for clarity I'm not arguing or asserting I'm right, just exploring. I personally take some of the Stoics stuff at surface level, because they were after all an early form of luxury beliefs and incredibly privileged people.
The poor and servant class didn't have the time to ponder such things, just surviving was a mammoth task.
I wonder if there's something in this with experiences. What are the unintended consequences of experiences on us and how that informs our perspective of such things.
I've always wondered why the men who stormed the beaches at Normandy outlived many of their civilian peers? On a deep psychological level did that experience shift acceptance of mortality and raise the threshold of things to flap about substantially?
How did those experiences alter the philosophical conundrums that may have been rattling around their head through the years?
Easy, a fluke of millions of years of evolution. A genetic code string that got this far and may go further if you wish.
I think that's the answer to the question, 'How did I get here?' which is obviously a very interesting question but not the one we're talking about.
Humans do seem to be natural pattern seekers and seem to be very interested in the reason things happen. I think it's a bit unreasonable to just expect people to ignore the biggest question there is.
Just for clarity I'm not arguing or asserting I'm right, just exploring.
And just to clarify, I'm not trying to assert I'm right (although sometimes I slip into doing that in philosophical discussions), I'm more just trying to explain why, even though I got really into it for a while, Stoicism didn't provide me with the tools I need (although, as I mentioned earlier, learning to accept how little control I have over my own body and mortality is something I credit Stoicism with).
In this case the seller that gets dropped when demand drops: Putin. Europe is only buying gas from Putin because there isn't enough available from elsewhere. If demand drops thanks to my (and hopefully your) efforts then Putin can be cut off
This isn't actually true, it's just something that you said. Gas is sold globally, it's fungible, where there's a willing buyer and seller there's a trade.
Now if we could organise a global boycott (and police it) you might have a point.
It's true if you could but see it but you don't want to as it's an inconvenient truth so people (probably including you) go on using an ICE car and burning gas. The very opposite of stoic.
well I bought an EV a while back (last I checked ICE doesn't run on Putin's gas anyway) but our central heating is indeed gas and there's not much likelihood of that changing any time soon.
Saying "it's true" isn't the most convincing argument TBH. What is the mechanism by which me buying £1 less gas means Putin gets £1 less in his pocket? Any not, say, any of the gas producers and resellers actually involved in my transaction, or indeed in the UK gas market, let alone the many other producers and resellers in the global market?
Saying "it's true" isn't the most convincing argument TBH.
It was the obvious eye rolling response to:
This isn't actually true, it's just something that you said.
It's now got to the point where were both repeating points already repeatedly made above and achieving nothing beyond trashing the thread which is negative use of the forum. Kind of ironic on a stoic thread. Still at least I'll make my last post on the thread knowing I was illustrating how people could be stoic and was driven off the thread by nihilism. Apologies to the others on the thread, the Mods, STW and all who sail in her.
Other people can read, no point continuing with this. I hope others can find the will to post something on topic.
Over and out. A stoic solution to the situation. 🙂