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Maybe we can unite the historic threads in to one but...
Todays question; my Vanguard Lifestrategy funds seem to have dipped a bit this week leaving me at 2% loss, this may seem obvious to an expert but for the layman; is this the time to invest some more e.g buying on the cheap a little? Or is there a correction coming and its bet to wait a bit longer?
My layman's opinion is that all the money since Covid has shifted into non-impacted & growth stocks, e.g. away from travel, retail etc and into technology, renewables, crypto etc. There will be some disruption while investors choose the right time to switch some money back to those suppressed stocks ready for easing of lock down. *Probably* best to leave the experts to it and wait for funds to pick back up.
Nobody knows, that's the whole point. If we knew then we'd be off MTBing in Oman or somewhere at this point, not skivving off our tedious IT jobs reading Singletrack.
Depends if you want to invest or trade. If the former then get it in whenever, but asap. If the latter then wait for it to go down.
I've been playing the drops the last year and am 25% up, but accept that trading is a fools game. Everyone knows that including Buffet. But it's fun, so I do it.
PS, if you want to unite the threads then why didn't you post on one if the existing ones, instead of creating yet another one?
Also, in answer to your question
seem to have dipped a bit this week leaving me at 2% loss, this may seem obvious to an expert
If you were investing properly according to various experts, you wouldn't even know you were 2% down. Can't recall exactly, but the maxim is
count your shares every five years, your bonds every year and your cash every week. Or something.
But basically ignore the short term noise.
PS. I don't follow this advice as it's loads of fun.
2% loss overall? Did you purchase the units recently?
In my experience of the past year, I'd say keep buying monthly if you have spare cash to invest. It's a long-term investment so you aren't gambling on short-term movements.
Buying the dips can work well for individual shares but if you are investing in large global trackers then probably pound-cost averaging via a regular monthly sum is best.
What will share prices do? Fluctuate. Anyone who tells you they know otherwise, better be a multi-billionaire.
If people are not comfortable with fluctuation then investing in shares might not be a great strategy for them or else check the performance less frequently!
Wot thegeneralist sed.
But, as you're talking about buying (and by that I mean investing, i.e. buying units and forgetting about them for ten years), not selling, if you can afford to, why not? Not because of the 2% 'drop', but because, if we're trotting out maxim
the best time to invest is ten years ago, the second best time is now
I have a question about SIPPS and funds.
I have money in a few old company pensions that I want to move into a SIPP, as I think a fund such as a Vanguard Lifestrategy 60 will do better than my existing pension funds. Meanwhile I'm still paying into a company pension, which will be separate. I'm 40 so perhaps not much more than 20 years from retirement.
So let's say I have 100k to transfer - would it be wrong to lump it all in one diversified fund such as Vanguard LS 60, or spread it further into several funds.
I don't want to do regular buying and selling, but I will be checking growth monthly.
What do you think?
Well, for me this is a small pot of money as "savings", with at least 10 years until I'm 60 to run. The 2% loss is over a 9 month period - it was 2% up before Feb. Yes I'm guilty of looking at it frequently...
I don't want to dabble, I just got nervous and have a bit of other savings in an account paying 0.01% which I could move today, and split across the two Lifestrategy funds I have (60 & 100).
What do you think?
If you want to stick with Vanguard you could also use their Target Retirement fund which shifts risk downward as it gets toward your project withdrawal year.
Vanguard LS 60 is incredibly diverse and contains multiple trackers funds, each of which contain hundreds of individual investments:
https://www.hl.co.uk/funds/fund-discounts,-prices--and--factsheets/search-results/v/vanguard-lifestrategy-60-equity-accumulation
If your strategy is to invest in 60% share & 40% bonds diverse tracker then you would have no need to further diversify into multiple funds my opinion.
Whether this is the correct strategy is another question!
However, consider transferring 5K or 10K at a time. If you transfer 100K at once and the market drops 10% then you’ve lost 10k.
not skivving off our tedious IT jobs reading Singletrack
Get out of my head!
If you want to stick with Vanguard you could also use their Target Retirement fund which shifts risk downward as it gets toward your project withdrawal year.
depending on what you want to do when you retire, this might not be the best option. The risk reducing funds were great when everyone bought an annuity as it avoided the risk of pulling all your funds out on a day\month when things are looking bad - however if you're going to target a drawdown strategy, it makes sense to leave your funds in riskier\higher earning pots until the day/month you choose to withdraw them.
note that is is still sensible to de-risk your 25% tax-free lump sum (and to do so, you might want to actually de-risk about 30% of your fund as it'll grow slower than the rest over the last few years) - as that is all taken out in one big bump.
If you transfer 100K at once and the market drops 10% then you’ve lost 10k.
He still lose 10% in his company pension ?
If you are wanting to lower your fees/take control yourself .... just get it done.
Target Retirement fund which shifts risk downward as it gets toward your project withdrawal year.
If you think that you'll not have very long in retirement.... Me, I want my retirement money still growing for 20/30 years
Good luck
not skivving off our tedious IT jobs reading Singletrack
Get out of my head!
🤗 Found it.
Thanks for your comments.
Vanguard Lifestrategy funds are all overweight the UK (17% IIRC), and our economy is $a bad joke, hence the drop over a period when globally markets have been on an absolute ripper.
My SIPP has returned almost 20% since this time last year,
It's with IM and is across 5 of their funds.
I was told to diversify and hold and it's worked for me.
Massive market correction imminent IMO, but ETLs and the like should be about long term investment. It's very difficult to time the market so conventional advice is to buy regularly which will flatten out peaks & troughs and leave with with a sustained average increase.
That said, with it coming up to FYE, it may be worth putting some extra cash in to the fund (assuming it's an ISA) and leaving it as cash to buy more units as & when you feel is the best time.
Massive market correction imminent
Seems like folk have been predicting that for years.
March was the "Market correction" but now that it's recovered, there is a "Market correction due"
I would agree though, forget checking it every day and get in for the long term. It's not trading.
our economy is $a bad joke, hence the drop over a period when globally markets have been on an absolute ripper
Really ? not on my balance sheet. The UK economy is anything but a bad joke.
As they say, it's time in the market not timing the market that wins the day. Little and often ignoring market fluctuations
“There are two types of investors, those that can’t time markets and those that know they can’t time markets”
If you’re portfolio is setup / diversified for your risk tolerance and financial objectives, forget about it and just keep buying monthly (aka pound cost averaging).
Really ? not on my balance sheet. The UK economy is anything but a bad joke.
We can agree to disagree on that. My global excl. UK trackers are probably up >10% on my incl. UK ones this year.
But I don't pick individual stocks, so perhaps that is where we differ.
Or is there a correction coming and its bet to wait a bit longer?
Don't sweat the random little swings.
Investing is a 5 year plus thing.
and our economy is $a bad joke, hence the drop over a period when globally markets have been on an absolute ripper.
You seem to be suggesting buying the thing that's already a the top of the market. Classic investment psychology mistake.
Diversify, keep low cost, buy and hold.
You seem to be suggesting buying the thing that’s already a the top of the market. Classic investment psychology mistake.Diversify, keep low cost, buy and hold.
Thanks for the investing tips. Don't think I've ever heard those before.
Buy low, sell high is the other mantra, right 😉 ?
2% dip? Pah, last March I was several £100k down when the markets dipped. I did absolutely nothing about it and a few months later the markets recovered and went a lot higher. Just sit back and enjoy the ride. Investing for retirement is a long term game...
Just checked in on my monies and am saddened/shocked to see that I'm ~8% down on two weeks ago. A decent chunk of money.... Where'd it go?!?!
Although was "happy" to see that pretty much all the funds on my watchlist are in a similar position.
Still hurts.
Just checked in on my monies and am saddened/shocked to see that I’m ~8% down on two weeks ago. A decent chunk of money…. Where’d it go?!?!
Sorry - think that's my fault. I was planning on pulling some money out of my investments this month. Naturally that caused the the prices to plummet just before I do...
Sorry – think that’s my fault. I was planning on pulling some money out of my investments this month
I'll send you an invoice.
Just checked in on my monies and am saddened/shocked to see that I’m ~8% down on two weeks ago. A decent chunk of money…. Where’d it go?!?!
10 year bond rates have gone up a bit, which means people worry / panic that equities will come off the boil - hence you get a dip in equities. It's just part of the normal ebb and flow of the markets.
It’s just part of the normal ebb and flow of the markets.
Yeah, I'm not wetting myself just yet.
In March/April 2020 I was down ~25% on Feb 2020. I was a little upset then. However, now (or rather was!) up 46% on April 2020 (now 42%).
Only looked as I need to show the German citizenship office what I have in the way of assets. Should have screen shotted last months total. 😂
Thanks for the investing tips. Don’t think I’ve ever heard those before
There's hearing and there's listening.
After a couple of recent threads on here I'd be interested in any further thoughts on moving some or all of my DC pensions into SIPPs. Presently I have two main ones roughy equal amounts in Standard Life and Aviva. I'm shovelling as much cash as I can into them for the tax breaks and the hope of an early and comfortable retirement (I'm on track for this, I think)
Also after recommendations on here I bought 'smarter investing' by Tim Hale and wholly agree with the approach he recommends (diversified low cost trackers, buy and hold)
Regarding moving away from Aviva and Standard Life, any thoughts on whether I could expect better returns from a market tracking SIPP ? (e.g. due to lower costs) I haven't researched their performance vs. the market yet.
Also any top tips for not messing it up if I do move some/all the cash? I'm fairly nervous about potentially being responsible for screwing my own retirement plan up!
Working in insurance looking after IFA’s etc the number of SIPP funds which have just exploded and disappeared with savers losing everything is scary. Some of course are protected by the FSCS, some are not. However as a rule SIPPs are not suitable for people with their sole pot of retirement money in them.
I wouldn’t go anywhere near one…
I have a slug of shares I keep for income, mainly ex employee shares so bought at a discount and the cumulative divis must exceed the purchase price.
So I used to look at the prices a fair bit, on good days I thought I was some sort of investment God for keeping them, on bad days stupid for holding.
Now I only look every year when I complete my tax return, it's a pension product and bought for income, which it achieves.
Its a bit like an investment property, if it delivers what you bought it for then it really doesn't matter what it is worth.
However as a rule SIPPs are not suitable for people with their sole pot of retirement money in them.
That's just utter nonsense..
A SIPP is just a tax efficient wrapper for a pension and has zero risk associated with it as the SIPP wrapper has no bearing in what you hold within it.
The risk comes from what you choose to invest in within the wrapper, if you stick everything on an unregulated mini-bond for a development in the Bahamas guaranteeing 8% return, then yes you'll probably lose everything. Unregulated mini-bonds are currently the most popular way of loosing all your savings.
If, on the other hand, you buy a range of main market trackers through regulated providers your SIPP is as 'safe' as any other money purchase pension scheme.
The basic investment rules are simple and don't differ for pension types. Diversify your portfolio, so if one investment does go tits up, you don't loose it all. Invest in sensible low risk regulated assets eg Trackers / managed funds with the big providers. Make sure everything is FCA regulated. If anything sounds too good to be true, it's because it is.
I'm 70% up since this time last year (pre covid) Markets have stalled a bit recently. Would have been a lot more up if I'd have just bought Tesla.
Pictet Robotics has been a great fund for me. Argo Blockchain been brill recently though I got in relatively late.
El boufadour your existing pension providers are likely to have low cost, diversified tracker funds e.g. Standard Life myfolio market. Moving into a sipp is unlikely to be cheaper.
Working in insurance looking after IFA’s etc the number of SIPP funds which have just exploded and disappeared with savers losing everything is scary. Some of course are protected by the FSCS, some are not. However as a rule SIPPs are not suitable for people with their sole pot of retirement money in them.
I wouldn’t go anywhere near one…
Care to name any of the ones you are talking about ?, because what you have said is basically rubbish.
Care to name any of the ones you are talking about ?, because what you have said is basically rubbish
I am interested in this as well! I have the majority of my Pension provision in one and share @footflaps understanding of what they are and arent!
So now I’m in a quandary. My NS&I ISA paying 0.1% can now be moved, my first thought was to move it to a Vanguard ISA, then use the Vanguard ISA as this years savings account.
However, I’m wary of putting everything in one pot so to speak e.g. Vanguard but equally don’t want lots of accounts floating around.
I wish the NS&I Green bonds were open with a decent rate, anyone heard any rumours to that effect?
I’m wary of putting everything in one pot so to speak
If you set up an ISA through a fund supermarket like Interactive Investor, AJ Bell, Hargreaves Lansdown, etc, and then invest in individual funds within that (which can include Vanguard funds), you own the investments so are protected if the supermarket goes down. But going direct to Vanguard saves you one set of fees.
Fees are important. The difference between 1% and 2% may not seem much but it's compound interest in reverse - losing 1% a year for 20 years, you're 18% down. The supermarkets have different fee structure, some are a percentage, some are a flat fee, so which works best depends how much you're putting in.
ignore. got my compound interest calculations wrong 😀
you own the investments so are protected if the supermarket goes down.
A good point I forgot about this, maybe safer to stick with Vanguard then on the basis of its single fee.
Also with vanguard they have a range of products. You can mix your risk and mix what markets you are in. You don't need to put it all into the same fund
https://www.vanguardinvestor.co.uk/what-we-offer/all-products
Sure. I had £500 in last years ISA with Vanguard which to date is up 22% using Lifestrategy 100. I'll probably just move the NS&I pot to that, I'm too risk averse / time and maths poor to be dabbling in anything more than a passive fund.
I've just set up a couple of mixed funds through my current account provider. A "high street" bank but given my risk appetite is low to medium at its raciest, I'm not too fussed about performance over the long term. Anything is better than cash at the moment. Fees were 1% I think.
1% is a little high. But if you get the return then I'm sure you'll live with it.
Specialist fund providers like Vanguard and Intelligent Money are a better bet than banks imo.
I've just checked. Total fees are 0.62%
I started buying stocks very recently via the Freetrade app. GME (did very well), AMC (not well), AAPL (pretty well).
But I’ve also realised that I should put some proper money (~£20k?) into a S&S ISA, rather than have it sitting in a current account losing value. Freetrade can also do this, eg you can buy ETFs. I know there are differences between ETFs and their fees/ tracking accuracy.
Is there any ‘catch’ to using Freetrade rather a more traditional vehicle? The app is currently costing me £10/month for the pro version which is required for USA-listed stocks (like GME or AAPL) although I could potentially just use the free version or the £6/month ISA. Although I’m using an ISA wrapper I don’t know how essential this is since I won’t be troubling the £12,300 capital gains allowance limit.
I think I know roughly what level of risk I want and so on. But what vehicle?
I started a Wealthify S&S ISA this year. I have chosen an ethical investment - something I've always done. So far in 6 months I'm just shy of 3% up. O.6% fee.
(I've a £25 referral bonus for anyone thinking of taking one out...pm me)
Despite a plummeting this time last year, my Standard Life Ethical pension has surged back by 36% in a year. Fingers crossed that continues!
book marked. farting about with freetrade and I'm failing to see the catch.
£100 quid slush money is now worth a whopping £101.56 (after 2 weeks).
I may remortgage and go pro 😮
(joke obvs)
So, a couple of things. First, more details on the NS&I green bonds are out, a 3 year fix although we've yet to see the interest rates which I can't see being very high:
https://www.nsandi.com/green-saving
Secondly, some advice please... I got a "retention" bonus from work paid out in June, enough to fill half my ISA allowance. Until now I've been putting bits and pieces into Vanguard. I have an open Vanguard ISA with £19500 remaining for this year but I'm scared to shove the money in because the markets have been steadly rising over recent weeks.
I kind of know the answer is
a) Is it a long term investment if yes stop worrying and do it
b) drip feed it monthly into the ISA
and maybe even
c) Start with b) then when the NSI Green Bonds are out out the rest in there.
Any sage advice to calm my nerves?
Only you can judge your appetite for risk
If it was my cash I'd stick it in Vanguard and drip feed it in £1k/month split across
S&P 500, new ESG funds and some Life Strategy 40 & 60
The new NS&I Green Bonds interest rate won't be that high. If it's too low nobody will invest but if it's too high the Govt will have lots of issues and they need to be seen as stable.
My guess is 1-1.5% to tempt the public but that is usually achievable with S&S ISAs but with more risk. As mentioned on the CV19 thread many times, as a society we're terrible at communicating relative levels of risk so the Green Bonds will be very popular as they'll be perceived as safe and higher interest.
If it was my cash I’d stick it in Vanguard
Ive never done this ive always use my debit card to deposit, but you can have a cash balance ready to go which is a more instant/same day purchase process - is that right?
but I’m scared to shove the money in because the markets have been steadly rising over recent weeks.
Forget about trying to time the market, all that matters is time in the market.
I fill my ISA each year on 5 April without bothering to look at the state of the market.
Debit card goes in as cash and 'clears' instantly so is same as having cash balance.
Funds do not trade instantly unless you are buying an Exchange Traded Fund, but that will typically have a larger dealing charge and you could pay more per unit. Because they trade instantly there are benefits if you wanted to get out of a position quickly, but that's more typical in institutional investors.
Fund prices are based on the value of underlying assets, ETFs will have a premium / discount depending on the market at that time on that day.
When you buy a Fund typically you get the position 4 days later.
When you buy an ETF it is yours instantly.
@Kryton57 - sorry I meant steadily put it in Vanguard e.g. £1k/month. Not stick it in all and then allocate a bit per month
Let's say you have £5k
Month 1, £1k in Vanguard and the rest somewhere else such as a Marcus instant savings account
Month 2 take chunk out of savings and put in Vanguard
Repeat until done
sorry I meant steadily put it in Vanguard e.g. £1k/month. Not stick it in all and then allocate a bit per month
The interest rate on Marcus is less than the mean gain per month of most stock markets. You'd only be better off if you managed to time it right and have a consistent falling market whilst you drip fed it in. More hassle than its worth esp as you're more likely to be worse off doing it. 10 years down the line you won't notice any difference.
@footflaps - you're probably right when it comes to long term investments but the drip, drip, drip method enables @Kryton57 to vary which funds he invests in and it gives him more control over it as a cautious investor.
Bear in mind that not everyone is confident enough to throw it all in there in day 1
I realise there is a physological / confidence element to it all, but everything you'll ever read (from anyone serious) about investing will tell you, all that matters is time in the markets (with a well divested portfolio). No one can time the market (consistently), so don't even bother trying.
@Kryton57 Vanguard offer some flexible funds where the split between Equities and Bonds is either 20-80, 40-60, 60-40 80-20 or 100-0. Pick whichever ratio you feel comfortable with and you can always rebalance at a later date.
Thanks for the advice. Of course I know most of it but was being anxious about making a decision, for which process the above helped. As per EL Shalimo I put 2k into a Lifestrategy 60, and 1k each into a Lifestrategy 100 and the S&P500. I’m a bit worried about the latter as it seems to have made some all time high gains recently so it makes me nervous it will dip soon, but hey if it’s good enough for Warren Buffet…
Same again next month.
it seems to have made some all time high gains recently so it makes me nervous it will dip soon
Almost guaranteed, but unless you are planning to cash it all in soon, it really doesn't matter at all! The stock markets are a random walk with a long term upward trend, you pretty much always win long term, but in the short term you could be up or down and it will vary a lot.
The NS&I Green Bonds still haven't appeared. Does anyone know when they are supposed to be available?
As per EL Shalimo I put 2k into a Lifestrategy 60, and 1k each into a Lifestrategy 100
£3k in Lifestrategy 73.3 recurring then 😉
Cyclists obsessing over the Capital markets. Could be the perfect contrarian indicator me thinks.
Cyclists obsessing over the Capital markets. Could be the perfect contrarian indicator me thinks.
I think it's more an age thing, you get to a certain age (in my case 40) when things like pensions / investments go from being never thought about to never not being, at least in the back of your mind.
The NS&I Green Bonds still haven’t appeared. Does anyone know when they are supposed to be available?
Last thing I read was Sunak was having a fit over it for some reason, delaying the launch.
Almost guaranteed
It did and I bought at the bottom of the S&P500 dip this week, I got lucky as I had a bit of cash waiting to be invested.
So er, anyone else buying in the massive dip? Blimey..... 8|
That’s not a massive dip lol.
Worth binging a few quid in mind.
It makes no rational sense to worry about it however it is impossible not to :-/
Yep. I've just transferred 3 final salary pension schemes into my SIPP so taking advantage of the froth being knocked off the market. I'm around 40% equities at the moment, mainly in low cost index trackers as my core but have a few satellite funds for things like small cap, fintech etc. I plan to move to 60% equities but will wait to see what happens over the next few weeks.
So er, anyone else buying in the massive dip? Blimey….. 8|
It's been absolutely nuts hasn't it. My stuff went up 10% in about two weeks. On Wednesday I was 37% up on last year.
Desperately want to invest some more but not until the market drops a bit...
I can buy options in Kingfisher group through work.
You drip in monthly then exercise the option at 3 or 5 years
Instant money back if necessary in full
Price is set on an average week last month, less 20%.
So you can buy the shares in 5 years time, at last months price, less 20%, and the shares are yours to do what you want with.
Up to £250 pcm whicj would accrue very nicely over time
Already in vanguard, Scott mutual, equitable, for 100k plus a serps related ppp at 50k.
Thpughts.....
What dip?
Those company schemes (all the ones I have seen) are a no brainer.
It’s worth shopping around on platform fees - for example some of Vanguard’s products are actually cheaper to buy and own (annual fees) on Hargreaves Lansdown than going direct via Vanguard.