I have had a stocks and shares ISA for 20 years now which comprises of a slightly risky portion (shares) and cautious portion (bonds). Over the 20 years, ive just let it run, with no management from my side (i pay a nominal fee for someone to manage it for me). I've not skimmed off any.profit and have accepted the ups and downs with an overall upwards trend.
However, I am.now worried with current market slumps. I'm.aware that the clever thing to.have done would have been to skim profits before the tariff announcements,. Anyway, should I be worried? I don't need the savings at the.moment and have alternative savings I can draw from if need be. Would you just let it run with the view that things will recover in.the medium to longer term? I was always under the impression that bonds do well when shares are down. Is this true in the current crisis?
Your best bet would be to monitor it for a few days and see if it goes down further. if it does then take all your money out and reinvest it once it has returned to growth 😉
More seriously, James Shack's later vid covers this quite well
Sit tight basically
The old saying, It's not about timing the market, but about time in the market,” has been proven true over the years. If you dont need any of your savings now then ride this out. Its just a very small bump compared to other crashes / dips. Infact the opposite holds true than selling now. Buy the dips 🙂
Crashes come and go. You've already missed avoiding this one so hold on and wait. Annoying as it is there isn't much you can do. If anything it's a good time to buy if you are feeling brave and in it for the long term.
Only thing I would say is what are you paying a management fee for if they aren't doing much management. Just get a low fee tracker and let it ride.
I was thinking - was today a good time to chuck some money into the market?
I should note that I pay into it every month, so will be buying during the slump. I'll get more shares for my.money, but my worry is how low can they go.
The management fee - I would hope that risk is somewhat being covered but in my limited knowledge there doesn't seem to be anywhere safe
I was think - was today a good time to chuck some money into the market?
Exactly. My son put a chunk in his LISA last week but didn't buy anything with it. I'm currently resisting the urge to kick him out of bed and take advantage of the fire sale
+1 for James Shack's video. My portfolio of savings/pension has lost an extremely large chunk, however I've timed putting in a whole years worth of pension contributions at the end of last week, with the intention of buying at a market low. However to manage my risk, I've re-directed my additonal emergency fund top ups to a cash isa, as this might be needed in the short term.
Thanks for the replies. I'm now thinking if I should actually be increasing my.monthly contribution!
you missed the boat to sell, if you sell now you'll miss the deadcat bounce..
short selling is undoubtedly killing the pensioners and retail investors , they'll have to buy back to close their positions, sure they'll put the short profits into the purchase and then win both ways
I was wondering a similar thing. My stocks and shares ISA doesn't give a unit value, just the Stirling value of the investment. Now we're in a new tax year, (I hit the limit a couple of months ago) am I better to start putting into the ISA again or just stick with the decent 4% savings option?
I'll be buying during this crash. Buying through a bank account ss ISA so I'll put the cash in and let them do the work. Bit if a delay in the buying process so I could do with buying now and hoping for no increases until later 🤔
That James Shack video has been really helpful and put my mind at rest.
I'm just about to do a 25/26 ISA.... would stocks and shares be a good option given the current state of affairs?
(I've already got a couple of cash ISA's and don't need access to the money any time soon.)
I'm just about to do a 25/26 ISA.... would stocks and shares be a good option given the current state of affairs?
(I've already got a couple of cash ISA's and don't need access to the money any time soon.)
Sounds just about perfect. If you don't need the money soon and you already have some cash then I'd go for it. It'll be a bit rough in the near future and some stocks will be dropping some more but long term there will be a bounce back.
I was about to fill up this year's ISA with a s&s ISA.. But I'm holding off for a few weeks... It's going to get turbulent.
If you already have one and don't need the money for an emergency I would NOT cash out in a dip... Worst thing you can do unless have little choice.
Ride it out or even stop your monthly payments for a few months and put that money you would have paid into a cash ISA or a decent easy access savings account. Or over pay the mortgage a bit with the money you would have automatically put into your s&s ISA.
There's no reason you have to pay into an ISA every month. Pay in what you want, when you want.. Up to the 20k limit obvs.
I'm beginning to think I'll never win at this game. I've lost money every year since I opened a stocks and shares ISA. I've had two ethical investment accounts (Triodos and the Big Exchange) and it feels like I'd have just been better off putting it into my ethical savings account instead.
Does anyone middle class not bother investing and get away with it at retirement?
i have a lump sum sitting in Premium Bonds that is destined for this year's S&S ISA now that the window is open. It's staying where is it for a bit ! Hopefully move it across in a few months and still get some gain in the current tax year
Double post
I'm beginning to think I'll never win at this game. I've lost money every year since I opened a stocks and shares ISA. I've had two ethical investment accounts (Triodos and the Big Exchange) and it feels like I'd have just been better off putting it into my ethical savings account instead.
Does anyone middle class not bother investing and get away with it at retirement?
Depends on the rest of your assets /portfolio.
An investment doesn't have to be stocks and shares.
Problem is you have to beat inflation just to break even.. Otherwise you are technically losing money.
Now would be a good time to use free cash to over pay on any expensive debts you have rather than invest it.. Certainly for the next few weeks IMO.
If you own property you could sell off for example... That's still technically an investment
I have my house (home, not an investment, like all houses should be), a knackered old Skoda and some bicycles. And no debt. Who has all this debt and property to sell off?
I have my house (home, not an investment, like all houses should be), a knackered old Skoda and some bicycles. And no debt. Who has all this debt and property to sell off?
Most of the rest of the planet 😁
I've a house and extension, a newish Skoda and a small collection of bikes (and a similar sized collection of small person bikes) .
Trump has beaten Truss in his decimation of my S&SISA.
I'm beginning to think I'll never win at this game. I've lost money every year since I opened a stocks and shares ISA. I've had two ethical investment accounts (Triodos and the Big Exchange) and it feels like I'd have just been better off putting it into my ethical savings account instead.
Does anyone middle class not bother investing and get away with it at retirement?
Depends on the rest of your assets /portfolio.
An investment doesn't have to be stocks and shares.
Problem is you have to beat inflation just to break even.. Otherwise you are technically losing money.
Now would be a good time to use free cash to over pay on any expensive debts you have rather than invest it.. Certainly for the next few weeks IMO.
If you own property you could sell off for example... That's still technically an investment
Fill your boots in a slump, sadly most people buy high and sell low. It all equals out in the end, today was a good buying opportunity if you had spare cash. Tomorrow may slump, who knows.
Fill your boots in a slump, sadly most people buy high and sell low. It all equals out in the end, today was a good buying opportunity if you had spare cash. Tomorrow may slump, who knows.
Depends on your personal position... I've got 20k ready to invest but I'm just going to hold it in cash for now (making circa 4% in a decent savings account).
When i put that into stocks it will be on the up-curve as best I can judge it... And it's going to be be a very turbulent few weeks or more.. IMO.
When i put that into stocks it will be on the up-curve as best I can judge it...
Probably better off investing it a bit at a time over longer period rather than trying to time it?
As above, general recommendation is time in the market beats trying to time the market.
if your a regular monthly investor id sat just keep doing what your doing, assuming you don’t need the money in the next couple of years…
if I was a betting man, I think it’ll get worse before it gets better…
I’ve just filled up my isa for this year, and it’s gone into cash, at 4.5%
that’s as my fixed term mortgage has a couple of years left and I might want to pay a chunk off when it’s up…
that being said, if it continues to drop to a loss of 30% or more, I might drop it into s&s then, as it can then only go up right… right…
ive just fallen into the trying to time the market trap haven’t I
I invested some extra into my pension before the tax year end for some tax relief on it. Just before it went pear shaped.
Awesome.
I’ll be salary sacrificing some extra money into the company HL pension over the next three months or so, hoping the trough is near the worst.
I get the comments, 'people always think this time is different' and yet things always seem to rebound.
However, if ever there was a candidate for, 'this time it's ACTUALLY different' then this might be it.
Of course, different doesn't always mean worse but it always means different.
Happy investing!
@rockhopper70 I'm in the same boat, invested my annual bonus into my pension in mid march
However the way I see it, the tax savings I have made hugely outweigh the dip in value.
When i put that into stocks it will be on the up-curve as best I can judge it...
Probably better off investing it a bit at a time over longer period rather than trying to time it?
Depends on your individual circumstances... I'm paying tax on my savings interest, so I'm just going to bung this spare cash (lump sum) into a cash ISA for now, and probably port it into an S&S when it feels less risky..maybe June, at his rate, lol!
Well I for one am glad that I'm not 25 years older and relying on my investments to see me through my retirement.
Logged onto my Hargreaves account for the first time in over a month. Kinda wish I hadn't.
Down about 25% on the start of this year. Although I'm not going to stress or lose sleep over it (ironic given it's 4:20 and I can't sleep).
Have been busy the last couple of months and have a decent chunk coming my way. Due to my lifestyle (living in a van, sleeping in the woods and with no tent or mortgage) I'm not in the position that I need the money on my bank account. However, I'll sit on it for a bit and try time the dip correctly.
Forgot to add ..I just really hope it'll be within the next three years that the markets turn around...!
Unless you need the cash soon, honestly don't even look at your accounts. Markets bounce. Sometimes quickly and sometimes it takes a bit longer. But if you do need it soon then why have it in a sticks and shares ISA in the first place. Dips are a buying opportunity if you have that ability.
I "think" I'm going to continue paying a lump in monthly as normal, but I've got enough doubts that part of me is probably very sensibly thinking keep it as cash. It's part of a 5-10 year plan, but I've got grave doubts about the whole system now. It looks to me like Trump has no qualms about trashing Wall St.
my HL S&S ISA pay 2.3-2.4% so can always put money in and invest later.
i liked that youtube video, he makes sense. sit tight, money on the side is reducing return. deadcat bounce today was always going to happen. see how short lived it is.
making irrational decisions like selling everything would cost fees and stamp duty and likely pay more than you sold them for, unless you are in early on the sell, then buy as the falling knife stops, which is tricky
For everyone shitting themselves now that this is different (just like we were shitting ourselves during COVID when that was different, or in the 2008 financial crash or any other examples from the past however long....)
Please do yourself a favour and go and watch the James shack video posted above
Reports that some markets are back up a bit this morning.
For everyone shitting themselves now that this is different (just like we were shitting ourselves during COVID when that was different, or in the 2008 financial crash or any other examples from the past however long....)
Please do yourself a favour and go and watch the James shack video posted above
Reports that some markets are back up a bit this morning.
Does the past however long include the 1920s where it ended up taking 25 years for the S&P500 to recover?
I guess the main difference between this and COVID is that COVID wasn't actively trying to destroy and reconstruct global markets according to the way it thought the world should work. The bottom could be in already or the bottom could be in a couple of years from now with 80% of value evaporating.
Unlikely, but a non-zero chance.
Still, this is only really relevant for people who have a sizeable chunk of money that they are trying to figure out when to invest or trying to figure out if they are going to need their already invested money in the next few years.
The rest of us can just carry on DCAing.
I would advise against looking at what the market is doing day to day if you are trying to make a big decision though.
Since we're posting videos, this one explains why the finance industry is no longer providing a benefit to society (or rather, the benefit it provides is now being dwarfed by the rents it extracts) which has been a growing issue for some time now (and at least partially explains the rise of populist governments). The issue may finally be coming to a head, in which case who knows what comes next.
that being said, if it continues to drop to a loss of 30% or more, I might drop it into s&s then, as it can then only go up right… right…
In 2015 as a FTB, I looked at interest rates which had been stuck at an all-time low of 0.5% for 6 years, decided there was only one way they could go from there, and took a 10 year fix at 3.1%.
Within a year... they went down! Suddenly everyone and his dog was on a 1% mortgage. Oops. So much for "there's only one way they can go"
Well said. This is a little different to other downturns as this is basically caused by one (unhinged) individual.
Have a mate who recently inherited 250k (his mum topped herself 😕) and wants to start investing. Told him to hold off for a bit.
Conspiracy theory time:
- Trump sold his Vanguard Lifestrategy tracker last week.
- Trump made tariff announcements knowing they would cause markets to plummet.
- Trump is busy 'buying the dip'.
- This week or next he will announce some sort of reversal on the tariff policy.
- Markets bounce back.
- Trump gets rich(er) on the mother of all insider trading deals.
I'm staying invested, and not looking at my ISA or SIPP accounts. At some point I will rebalance by selling bonds to buy more equities, but not while China and the US are still trash talking each other.
Does anyone middle class not bother investing and get away with it at retirement?
Yes, they had final salary pensions and owned their homes.
I just drip my monthly contributions into AVCs and ignore the market. Over 10 years, it will do fine. Short-termism will make money for the few. Long-termism will win in the end. House rules.
Not an ideal situation for anyone retiring shortly and wanting to take 25% straight away, but my US tracker is down to where it was in ~Feb 2024. Still 18% up over April 2023. It could certainly be / get a lot worse but it's not that bad considering the gains since covid.
My ISA, which is about 18 months old, went negative today. 😭
Another helpful vid
As above, those about to draw down pension or who have only just invested - I feel your pain.
But this is a long haul game
As per the video 👆 zoom out.
There are a couple of things in there that video that I need to consider once things recover (I.e. derisking some of it) as I'm not *too* many years away from when I'd ideally like to retire
I think the idea that the stock market always bounces back is a dangerous assumption to make. What you have to remember is that the finance industry in it's current form is largely a ponzi scheme. There is very little money actually going towards investment and entrepreneurship, which is what the finance industry is supposed to be there for. Its increasing value is entirely reliant on new money coming in and that new money is starting to dry up.
Once we give these people our money (or rather, once we buy ETFs) then that allows the prices to increase across the board which in turn allows the people employed in finance to circulate the money in a closed loop and extract their rent from it.
These tariffs are a symptom of all this. People realise the money is running out and are voting more and more erratically hoping that someone has the magic formula to start innovating and generating real societal value again. Problem is, that's not going to happen (unless something like the business lending industry of the industrial revolution or the consumer lending industry that characterised much of the 20th century happens but I can't think of anything would lead to that kind of shakeup).
The problem with zooming out is that if you zoom out too far you realise that we are in an unsustainable state that is going to be corrected at some point in the future.
I think the idea that the stock market always bounces back is a dangerous assumption to make.
I suppose one day they might not but so far they have every single time. A big crash every ten years or so, then bounced back, a mid size correction every few years, bounced back, a few dips every year, bounced back. If you are a betting man then only one option is highly likely.
I will agree that it is a crap system and lots of people are making a lot of money out of it. Would love to see something better and fairer but that isn't happening anytime soon.
True, although some bounces are faster than others:
Anyway, according to WallStreetBets (because honestly this is as sane a place to get financial analysis as anywhere else these days) today is a day for keeping an eye on 'Basis pair Trades'.
Here's a link to the FT for those of you who are too highfalutin to hang about on reddit:
https://www.ft.com/content/0005e091-930d-46ff-9e81-8591704a9282
i think we all agree its a flawed system that favors the brave / foolish.
But in the short term (i.e the time you have to invest) its a bet.
Breaking: China to impose additional tariffs of 84 per cent on U.S. goods
China will impose 84 per cent tariffs on U.S. goods from Thursday, up from the 34 per cent previously announced, the finance ministry said on Wednesday.
I'm still holding uninvested cash in a staocks and shares ISA (getting 4.6% interest)...
Looking to buy into this but I'm going to hold for now!
@mattyfez - good stuff. I have a few Vanguard products and they generally perform really well. Like others have said, it's a good buying opportunity and also like my Gran used to say; 'it's an ill wind that blows nobody good'!
@mattyfez - good stuff. I have a few Vanguard products and they generally perform really well. Like others have said, it's a good buying opportunity and also like my Gran used to say; 'it's an ill wind that blows nobody good'!
I'm not buying yet!!!!! 😆
One tip I've discovered - its cheaper to buy vanguard funds via T212 stocks and shares ISA than Vanguards own platform.
Sense check for someone considering dipping their toes into S&S (like VWRP above): From what I've read I can transfer a portion of my T212 cash ISA into a T212 S&S ISA and that process is quick as within T212? I then have the choice of selecting a global index like VWRP within the S&S ISA, and then forgetting about it for several years?
Or have I misunderstood (feel like I've read/watched so much over the past few months that I'm overloaded and now questioning everything)?
Sense check for someone considering dipping their toes into S&S (like VWRP above): From what I've read I can transfer a portion of my T212 cash ISA into a T212 S&S ISA and that process is quick as within T212? I then have the choice of selecting a global index like VWRP within the S&S ISA, and then forgetting about it for several years?
Or have I misunderstood (feel like I've read/watched so much over the past few months that I'm overloaded and now questioning everything)?
I've not tried it, but I can't see why it won't be a quick transfer - one other thing with the T212 S&S ISA - you can put cash into it and leave it 'uninvested', and tick the 'pay interest' option, currently 4.6% IIRC - presumable then it will just act like a cash ISA until you want to buy into a vanguard ETF or whatever... thats what I've done for the moment, anyway...now I wait!
Stay away from thier "CFD" account though... That's really gambling and 70%+ people actually lose money on that!
The market manipulation now is so blatant I'm not even angry about it.
I'm impressed, if anything.
The market manipulation now is so blatant I'm not even angry about it.
I'm impressed, if anything.
It was preffy F*****g obvious, to be fair... Trump, musk etc...they sold before all this crapola started... and they will buy back in when they can buy their stock back 30% or more discount.
Musk crying in the media that Telsa shares are tanking are just crocodile tears... they will be buying back in, and heavy.
It's like insider trading, but you have the president of the country running the same play-book. So it's not 'insider trading', it's all totally legal, because who is going to fire the president of the USA? He's a rapist and convicted fraudster x 34, and people still voted for him.
As far as I know Donald Jr is in charge of the orange shitgibbon's 'blind' trust.
With options trading people have made billions just today.
It's going to be a long 4 years.
It is blatant, he literally posted "THIS IS A GREAT TIME TO BUY!!" a few hours before announcing a pause on tariffs.
It is blatant, he literally posted "THIS IS A GREAT TIME TO BUY!!" a few hours before announcing a pause on tariffs.
He's announced a pause? Shows how fast things can move... But why would he pause when China has doubled down? Has the penny actually dropped... Or is it all part of his game? And will trump bang more tariffs on tomorrow?
It's so unstable as these aren't 'market forces at play'.. It's Trump thinking he's playing Poker, and he's just 'checked' rather than 'raised'.
Now is the time for the rest of the world to really punish the USA... you can't be acting like that as head of state.
But why would he pause when China has doubled down?
Paused for all except China as I understand it
Has the SEC been disbanded yet? Unbelievable....
I'm rich! 😉 (for at least 90 days). I'll be looking back on this tiny investment in my ISA in 20 years time (after a few more booms and busts i guess) and I'll be able to buy an extra beer or loaf of bread in 2045. 🤔😂
Ive got a couple of K waiting to invest. theres no way im doing it at this point. Let all this start to settle for a few weeks.
i dont see him backing down yet.
Decide on your long term strategy, diversify your investments, rebalance according to your strategy, and stick with it. Ignore the noise.
Very much doubt those in the know and his hedge fund manager buddies will be buying actual stock, its all spread betting and derivatives massively magnifying their actual gains. Its shameless market manipulation for personal gain.
