I've been regularly saving 100 quid a month for a couple/few years into stocks and shares isa. It's sat around 10% interest up until all this Coronavirus malarkey. Over the past few days it's started to make a loss and now it's about 2% loss. So, being a complete novice to this sort of thing just wondering what the advice is?
Option 1 carry on as normal, after all it's in for long term saving 10-20 years.
Option 2 reduce or stop payments until things smooth out
Option 3 panic and withdraw with a loss
This is money I had put aside as something to accumulate over long term saving, so I'm not concerned it's gone down, but I guess its unprecedented times and it's hard to predict whee things go from here.
Double your savings to take advantage of all the bargains that are now available.
Firmly #1 this current blip will become just noise in the medium term and totally inconsequential when viewed in 20 year term. If anything I'm planning on transferring some extra cash into my S&S isa over the next few days.
"Follow it down"
If I've got the parlance correct.
I'm about 10% down.
Now is not the time to run. Ride it out. The up turn when the world economy returns to normal again will/should be positive in the short term.
Its only a "loss" if you realise it although of course it is concerning. Ideally we should have all sold the day before this happened but for obvious reasons we didnt. Markets have always risen over the long term and it depends on when you need your money. Thats not to say that they will rise ever again but I think they are likely to recover over a period.
Yes just carry on as usual, shares are like the housing market, when cheap noone wants them.
My shares are well down but they are still producing a nice income, I am waiting to buy more. The market always overvalues the swings.
Good luck, stay invested and dont look at valuations every day, you will think you re an investing God when up,a complete fool when down.
Option 1.
Consider increasing your monthly investment.
but I guess its unprecedented times
It's not though: dot com bubble, credit crisis, early 90s recession ...
Just keep on doing what you're doing and don't look at the newspapers for another 20 years.
It’s sat around 10% interest up
What do you mean by that? It was worth 10% more than what you had put in?
Noone knows if the market is going to go up or down from this point. If they did then it would already have gone up/down.
Buy cheap and sell dear.
So perhaps stick a bit more in when the market is low.
Tracker fund (eg tracking FTSE or similar)?
or a handful of individual stocks/shares?
As you say, it's long term investment. There will be ups and there will be downs. Cash out and and you lock in that loss and the cash will permanently devalue over time.
Best thing about a slump, which always happen every so often, is that each £100 buys more units or shares. So that when there's a rise, there's more to rise 🙂
So #1
I have a load of my ex-employer shares - they hit 670 at the beginning of last week and are now 600 - I was just looking to sell some, so I'll just have to sit on them a while longer
I'm betting that the markets have recovered before I can kick off my 2020/21 ISA 🙁
For clarity, what I mean is the value was around 10% higher than what I had paid in.
It's a managed account thing. One of the ones where you just pick the risk you want to take and someone else does all the stuff. I will look into self managed account sometime in the future possibly.
Google pound cost averaging
This basically means medium to long term vestments will fluctuate. Some months you buy low and accrue more units, some months you buy high and get less
The canny trick is to get rid at the top of the curve or move to a more stable area of investment like gold or bonds if sticking in and you are nearer the end of term
If you're in it for the long term then some time in that period the markets are likely to slump and you will, at least on paper, lose money. But the whole thing about investing long term, that while there is no guarantee of certainty for the future, in historic terms, the markets have always risen over those timescales, and so it's considered pretty safe despite all the peaks and troughs you'll encounter along the way.
It's when you're getting close to withdrawing the cash that you'd need to worry. But that's when you'd start to reduce the level of risk on your account.
I was just thinking about putting money in but wondering how much further they might drop, so I'm sitting it out for a bit.
If it is a 20 year thing don't even bother looking at prices month to month. Over 20 years you will have increased by a lot.
Yep, just sit it out and wait.....
I've lost a 6 figure sum in the last few days, par for the course in stocks and shares. It will eventually recover the losses, no one knows when and how though, so any attempt to time the market is futile.
I've just increased my stocks and shares ISA contributions by 150% (they were pretty low beforehand anyway). This wasn't a corona virus related decision.
Might see about putting a lump sum in before the end of tax year too.
I do have some of my pension invested in a China only fund, but it's up 100% over the last 5 years or so. I think I'll just leave it.
For 10-20 year investments then just ride it out, we're not headed for a Walking Dead style global apocalypse, it will recover over time and as others have said now/soon you're buying at the bottom of the market so will make additional profit in the long run.
If this does turn into a Walking Dead style global apocalypse then sell it all (if you still can by the time we know) and use it to buy knives, axes and canned goods.
Well the shares i was going to buy this morning have risen. As ian cowie in the sat telegraph said, the best time to buy shares was probably yesterday. He s nailed it, you never know and with hindsight everyone is an expert.
Just stay invested.
I would have commented before but been a tad busy .... haha
As an old market pro
I would have told you .... Buy it when you can, not when you have too !!
But I dont think this is over yet (or at least I hope not) and you'll get another chance. Also as others have said 20 years is the correct time line (but you don't want this happening to your pot in 18 years time)
Good luck
Have fun
Out of interest (unintentionla pun) what is the advice for someone new to investing (beyong savings accounts and premium bonds)? Unit trusts / ISA / share dealing apps?
Two approaches imo. You either do it as a hobby, read the papers/internet, buy and sell, make a few quid here lose a few quid there. Or you treat it like long term savings. Buy a tracker or fund, stick some money in it, keep topping it up. In 20 years cash it in. The second approach is much easier and likely to make you more money so I'd recommend that.
If you do go for that then research a few options. Fundsmith and Vanguard are popular on here and considered pretty "safe" bets. Both can be bought direct or through a 3rd party.
Final thing is the wrapper. You can just buy them, buy them as an ISA or buy as a pension. Pros and cons of all them but a mix of the ISA and pension works for me.
It's worth doing imo. These are slightly funny times but long term you should do ok.
fed cuts rates. the dow is volatile swinging 650 points
US markets opened down - possible very short-term profit taking after yesterday's big increases combined with underwhelming statement from G7; then Fed cut rates and markets re-bounded, going +ve; trump says fed cut is not enough - markets fall and are now -ve.
Trump is only interested in being able to continue saying economy is strong; anything which threatens that risks his re-election; he will do anything to secure that.
Prices will wobble but there's some good buy in prices. Shell are 17.5 gbp so an 8% yield, they haven't cut their divi since the war. At that price you get your money back in 10 years, compounded.
"Shell are 17.5 gbp so an 8% yield, they haven’t cut their divi since the war."
But they really should! And start investing in tomorrow's tech....
Where are the Bitcoin/Cryptocurrency maximalists these days?
But they really should! And start investing in tomorrow’s tech….
A quick google brings up from Reuters.....
Shell leads the pack with future plans to spend $1-2 billion per year on clean energy technologies out of a total budget of $25 to $30 billion
It's only ever a problem if you want to cash them in.
Now is a good opportunity to buy...i've bought into a few companies over the past week.
Markets go up and down through various causes of volatility.
Well you do have to take your money at some point unless you can manage totally on dividends so although the market has shown time and time that it will bounce back, just like investments their is no guarantee that they will. As above if it is only a loss when you take it but thats not to say every investment will bounce back, they are not all equal!
now thats the true panic setting in.
Big drops today across the board.
To give some perspective to today's market losses, the key driver is the >20% fall in crude oil prices.
In isolation, this would have spooked the markets; coming on top of covid-19 has amplified the impact.
Dow Jones futures down by c1,000 points based on oil price movements; S&P futures have been frozen as they have hit pre-set market limits.
Saudi wanted Russia to restrict oil supply to support price; Russia said 'nyet'; Saudis turned on the taps and prices fell.
Not a new tactic by Saudi; Russian economy is weak so an open question about how long they can maintain current position.
they are probably taking the opportunity to stick the boot into Iran while they are having a bit of a corona crisis as well.
Apparently they're after the US shale industry which cannot cope with lower prices due to higher production costs.
If the coronavirus continues at the current projected level and intervention well work is impacted a lot of production will very quickly decline especially in middle east (for water flood EOR) where either the health care system is poor and/or expats can't/wont travel. If all/some of this happens just wait for the rebound, it'll be brutal.
Yes big losses across the board, just sit tight and reinvest the dividends. There will be worse to come the market always oversells and then overbuys. Sadly most retail investors bail out at the bottom and crystalise losses.
Just sit tight.
Just sit tight.
Don't sell, but when to buy?
Buy when you believe the shares you want represent good value.
You will not time the bottom, certainly not on purpose.
Itchy fingers at the moment, however I believe there are more drops to come, especially when we actually enter a recession rather than just thinking we will.
You're never going to time the bottom perfectly, so you need to decide what represents good value. I'll chuck a fair amount in if/when VWRL hits £55 or lower.
EDIT: Too slow. What he said ^ 😀
Option 2 reduce or stop payments until things smooth out
You may not be cut out for share trading if you put this as an option. Buy LOW sell HIGH. Now that prices are low, it is a good time to buy provided you buy the right things. Avoid hospitality chains, airlines and so on cos they might go bust 🙂
Don’t sell, but when to buy?
I've started buying now.
I m waiting to buy a chunk but reckon it will get worse. The yields are junk status...rdsb shell at 12 quid is 12.5% yield if they don't cut. Problem with shares is they are valued every second, your house is probably worth half what it was yesterday if you had to sell it today.
Don't listen to me though, they ll probably rocket tomorrow and I m waiting to buy....i wouldn't want to be short though you have to cover the dividends.
No-one really knows when to start buying again; pays your money, takes your chance.
As above, pound cost averaging is sensible basis.
In an earlier post I referred to the Dow and S&P futures; I would use them as a guide.
I took my cash out of FTSE a couple of weeks ago after first drop which is normally a dummy move but I couldn't see the bottom (and performance had been poor anyway) but geez I wasn't expecting such a big drop. Can't say for certainty that it is the bottom as it depends on how many get sick when, and the impact thereof, which is not something you normally factor in to markets. Sadly I'm no Billy Ray Valentine I moved my cash into a tech fund which has lost a bit too, but not as much.
It's my fault. Four weeks ago I topped up my S&S ISA for the first time in 10 years.
I was going to open a couple of ISAs before the end of March, then couple more in April. Wouldn't be touching them for a decade. Good time to buy or still a bit risky?
You may not be cut out for share trading if you put this as an option. Buy LOW sell HIGH. Now that prices are low, it is a good time to buy provided you buy the right things. Avoid hospitality chains, airlines and so on cos they might go bust 🙂
It's a managed stocks and shares isa. Ie a tracker Jobbie with no actual buying or selling of shares. I guess there's some computer somewhere deciding where to stick all the money.
Where are the Bitcoin/Cryptocurrency maximalists these days?
Still here.
If you rode the last dip to around $3000 where everyone said it was finished you would be looking at a three fold increase today - even with the recent drop.
I have just dropped a couple of grand in bp shares £2.95 a share wasn't that long ago they wer twice that.
There must be some seriously battered investors out there....
I've just checked out the sea of red numbers that make up my SIPP, a £93K pot has turned into a £76K pot over the past couple of weeks!
I'm 15 - 20 years from drawing it, so not worried, rather seeing it as a good time to top up.
A pot three or four times that size and <5 years from retirement must be a very different story.
Ditto bedmaker, on all counts.
I dumped a portion of my ISA pot into a gold fund in oct/nov, which has eased the pain a bit, otherwise its been a raggedy broom end experience all round, and no idea where the bottom is, especially the FTSE based stuff. Would be nice to have some free cash to put into the indexes very soon.
Looks like some expertise on the thread so here's a question - with a SnS ISA, for long term investment, are gains ever crystallised other than when cashing in?
I'm wondering if it accumulates dividend payments or similar that are stuck back into the fund .. should I see money going in other than what I pay in? It's with Nutmeg if it makes any difference.
Looks like some expertise on the thread so here’s a question – with a SnS ISA, for long term investment, are gains ever crystallised other than when cashing in?
Yep, depending on what option you ticked they either auto reinvest dividends (buying more shares) or let the dividend grow as cash in the account.
Ta, I'll look for that tick box 😀 - I suspect the former.
Just sit tight you re brave looking at the valuation. I see they have risen today and I am still waiting to buy. Oh well, as said, you never pick the low point. I suspect more volatiloty is on the way.
Just sit tight you re brave looking at the valuation.
+1
I've seen various analyses of previous crashes and most of the recovery happens in a single event some time after the crash. So if you sell out on the way down, you'll probably miss the recovery jump on the way back up.
I though I was being clever buying IAG and Easyjet last week when they dipped... Both are now waaaay down on where I bought, so I'm considering doubling down on IAG in the hope that they've bottomed out now(?)...
The real worry at this point is one of these companies going bust rather than riding out the shitstorm that 2020 is going to be...
It's only relative pocket change, and I would never invest money I couldn't afford to lose, but it does makes you appreciate the sort of investments that your pension(s) ride on.
Finally got round to putting some money in a stocks and shares ISA off the back of this thread.
Cookeaa
You might want to check out the debt position of those airlines. That is what will dictate who goes bust. Who has the cash to see it out?
Also regarding averaging down (don't chase losses) When those companies actually announce the balance sheet damage rather than pure sentiment then there surely will be further drops.
I cannot see global travel returning to previous levels for quite some time.
who are people using? Been meaning to get into stocks and shares and now seems like the right opportunity.
I currently put £650 a month into savings accounts that are getting sod all so may as well do something a bit more exciting with it.
looks like a classic dead cat bounce today.
Klunk - that's what I'm banking on too. Did the same thing last week and I bought a bit on the way up, down another 7 or 8% on that now.
Both are now waaaay down on where I bought, so I’m considering doubling down on IAG in the hope that they’ve bottomed out now(?)…
IAG just announced internally to staff that they've basically stopped all projects, any contractors are out come Monday unless special case, and they'll be redundancies shortly so I suspect they'll be worse to come yet.
Bearing in mind (at least the BA part of) IAG is making something like a billion quid a year profit before this they should have a war chest but some big ones could go up the creek.
Bookings and loads are ridiculously low at moment, if US decides to ban UK flights as well as Europe then that could be hard time for BA. Iberia could be stuffed too if South America stop flights from EU.
Investing in anything travel related would be a brave move, some will fold, some will survive.
I gave up investing in individual stocks after being convinced that BoE wouldn't let Northern Rock fold - how wrong I was on that bet!
I just buy funds now and let someone else work out which companies to buy.
I'm at the stage now where my SIPPs / ISAs earn more than I do on a good year and loose a lot more than that in a bad year...
Alternately, they are using the virus as an excuse to do some restructuring they wanted to do anyway, without too much pressure from the unions
Anyone else notice Bitcoin lost 40% this week?
Interesting to see so many people buying individual stocks compared to funds.
That said, I used my free trades on revolut to buy a few tasty american stock thats taken an absolute hammering
Further to fall yet I suspect, I'm upping my monthly investment and buying more on the way down, a slight variation on pound cost averaging. Anyone who thinks they can predict share price movements is wrong, anyone who manages to time it right is lucky.
I used to buy individual company shares, some have done very well, but I can't be bothered with watching comoany news, so now I only buy investment trusts and a couple of funds.
Strong bounce on US markets following trump's declaration of national emergency.
Will be interesting to see if this is reflected in Asian & European markets on Monday.
Well I made a 40k investment in Nov. Was quite pleased with it hitting 45k by jan, now it’s at 34k. First time I’d tried to be a bit more proactive 🙁
Both IAG and EasyJet strong in my opinion. If they collapse I suspect that we’ll be using hand sanitiser and toilet rolls as currency instead of pounds.
Whether they’ve reached rock-bottom is a totally different question.
My Mrs wants to sell all her s&s investments while they are still in profit, I'm thinking of buying more while the markets are down lol.
I feel there could be further to drop though.
You're on crack if you think easyJet and IAG are strong. BA are the most profitable airline in the world and they are already talking about laying off staff
Neither of them or any other airline (bar the UAE backed ones) will survive without govt bailouts
Source, my brother in law who runs a fund worth 5 billion
To be fair I read flaperons post and realised he's self invested and quite possibly also on crack.
There's are huge amounts of significantly more stable and hugely higher chances of not expiring single shares to be investing in if that floats your boat.
But travel and tourism.....absolute suicide right now. The worst is still to come for them I fear
Airlines are pretty much the same as restaurants/hotels. They all survive on a week to week cash flow
Long term BP are a steal for a safe rise. But personally, beyond that I wouldn't touch anything for a month or so
I favour shell over bp, I am sure I read shell can live with oil at c 50 USD. Today with all the algorithmic trading shell are 10 quid so yielding 14% they haven't cut the divvy since the war and at that price you could live with a cut.
Doesn't stelios still own 30% of easy jet, or his family, no idea how much cash they have to fund the mothballed planes.
I still haven't bought btw...
Yep, depending on what option you ticked they either auto reinvest dividends (buying more shares) or let the dividend grow as cash in the account.
Mine doesn't reinvest. I periodically check in (twice a year ish) and put the dividend pile back into a likely looking fund. Which might or might not be something I already have.
