Stick or twist. Car content

We cant decide for you

Interest rates are 5% minimum at the minute, most garages even on a PCP are asking over 10% apr. Leasing is stupidly expensive. Second hand cars are stupidly expensive.

Oh and most new cars are between 6-9 month waiting

Does that help ?

Part n part?
2k personal loan over 12 or 24 months and scrape together another 2k from income/savings. Something like that.

Thanks Dunc.

I've looked at offers and APR is bonkers, along with cost of second hand cars which doesn't seem to be coming down.

Just want something more reliable, but I know with any second hand car you don't always know what youre getting in to.

Jekyl, that could be an option.

I'd fix it and continue to see how long you can get out of it. We're in a similar position with a 12yo zafira with 115k on it. Any repair is cheaper than buying any other car (via whatever means) and atleast it's a known quantity. You could buy any other car (new, nearly new or what ever) and have a mare with that.

Just hoping we can keep ours going until things are a bit more sensible.

Usually fix it. Now you have a car with two brand new injectors. And yes, whilst it'll cost money, newer cars also cost money.

Depends on your budget and your needs.

Figure our how much per month you can afford and go and see a few dealers. Don't get wrapped up in APRs - it is what it is.

Not exciting but Dacia Sandero's can be had for £200 per month...
https://www.stoneacre.co.uk/new-cars/dacia/sandero

after looking at the S/H car market, I just spent £900 fixing the DPF on my 160k, 12yr old subaru.

Just want something more reliable, but I know with any second hand car you don’t always know what youre getting in to.

Better the Devil you know. At least once repaired you know the (recent) history of your current Volvo. No guarantees any secondhand car is going to be more reliable than your current one.

I feel your pain.. I’ve been there with the multiple failed injector thing. They were £200 a pop in my old 325i and the bill often ended up north of £350 each time due to oil service if it failed open.. AND there were 6 of them to contend with. I kept that car at the time as felt another used car could just be a load of other issues. But it had relatively fewer miles on it (maybe 50-60k).

I’m buying a new (to me) car right now as co car going back and as above it’s expensive out there at the minute.

So currently sat beside the A303 awaiting pickup after another injector has gone on my Volvo V60. Had one go last year too. Since getting the car 3 years ago it has been no end of trouble and cost thousands. It has done 130k and is 10 years old.

Whereas our V70 D3 of 138k/10 years we had for 4 years and 70k was barely any trouble...However it went in for new brakes a few weeks before MOT and the garage quoted £1200 of 'needed for MOT/Urgent' and another £1.5k of 'ought to do'. For the first time I bailed and traded in a running car with life left in it.

I am really torn now - the V70 was a better car. We have upped our monthly repayments on a loan by £100. We have a car that at some point will still need maintaining and have something wear out. We do however have a car that ought to be a bit cheaper when things do go wrong (petrol, smaller parts, not Volvo prices) and being only 70k and 6 years old should give us a few years of motoring.

the cheapest car to run is normally something which is reliable and no longer depreciating. See old, small japanese petrols. Something like that will cost around £100/month to run on insurance, mot, tax, repair, servicing, that sorta thing (may be cheaper if you skip/diy some of that).

a slightly nicer second hand car will probably have similar costs, but add in depreciation - if its £10k now and will be £5k in 3 years time, thats an extra ~£140 a month in depreciation.

a really cheap new car can be not-that-much more than that - the limited milage dacia above is probably around £250/month (tax servicing on top of the base rental price).

a nice new car is a lot more. the new equivlent of your car would be around £500/month all in on a lease.

figure out how much your car is actually costing you and see how it compares with the above.

a slightly nicer second hand car will probably have similar costs, but add in depreciation – if its £10k now and will be £5k in 3 years time, thats an extra ~£140 a month in depreciation.

except what was £5k three years ago is £10k now.

the s/h car market is mental.

is the injector definitely dead? They can often be refurbed, and most places that offer the service will inspect/test first and tell you if they're definitely FUBAR or not... I'd kinda suspect that given its a relatively low mileage and low mileage per year (for a volvo diesel) that injector service/refurb may be enough.

I loved my V60 though, it was a 2011 D4 and when the lease was up I was so very close to just getting another. Comfiest seats on the planet.

In my experience, some cars are just BAD regardless of make/model. Friday afternoon specials where they have non-stop problems.

I had something similar, should have gotten rid sooner.

I bought our last car for 6k on a credit card, interest free for 2 years.

Sold the two non-runners we had for around 3k(!) a few months back by listing with 1p starting bid on ebay. Both had 100's of watchers, and buyer turned up within a couple of days to collect.

assumed it was diesel - my bad. you never said.

If it's petrol and ULEZ compatible, you'll get good money on ebay IMO

We’re in a similar position with a 12yo zafira with 115k on it. Any repair is cheaper than buying any other car (via whatever means) and atleast it’s a known quantity. You could buy any other car (new, nearly new or what ever) and have a mare with that.

Yep, this is us, with an

old, small japanese petrols. Something like that will cost around £100/month to run on insurance, mot, tax, repair, servicing, that sorta thing

Yep, 55 plate, 118k Mazda 2 1.4. It is worth nothing, but costs £130 a year to insure, tax is, er, whatever the tax is (£270? is that right?) and about £500 a year on servicing and minor fixes.

We'll keep it until something catastrophic happens, by which I probably mean something that costs more than a £1000/£1500 to repair.

If two injectors have now gone, the other two cannot be that far behind. Make sure you get your fuel filter done at the same time and also perhaps flush the system with a couple of tanks of better quality fuel after the repair to make sure it is not dirt or debris causing the injectors to clog or fail.

Sounds like you need to get the car fully inspected by a specialist to see what might likely need doing over the next couple of years. Then either get the work done or chop it for something else armed with some better knowledge about the car than you currently have.

Thanks all for replies. I've had some time to read and get over my slightly annoyed state with the car. Still though sat on the 303 after 3 hours.

It is a diesel, 1.6. Garage have said with the previous one, there are known issues with the Peugeot injectors, which they said are found in the Volvos?

I'll fix I think then wait until more offers come up at a later date or until something catastrophic goes wrong!

the cheapest car to run is normally something which is reliable and no longer depreciating. See old, small japanese petrols. Something like that will cost around £100/month to run on insurance, mot, tax, repair, servicing, that sorta thing (may be cheaper if you skip/diy some of that).

Indeed - our second car is an Ibiza 1.4 16v (the old engine - no turbo, few sensors, no anything really) with a throbbing 75bhp. It is now 11 years and 110k old. It has cost us a couple of suspension items and a new battery beyond 'normal servicing and wear' costs. It is getting a new clutch next week - after three learner drivers it is rattling and bikes on the roof regularly.. It might be worth £2k on a good day, having paid £7k for it at three years old. Without learner drivers it was £140 a year to tax.
Owes us nothing, and will remain until the scrap heap.
We have been fortunate though - not all cars are as reliable. That said, I have good garage, chose a good wagon and stay on top of maintenance.

but cars just cost money. Lots and lots of money.

That engine is used in loads of different cars across Ford, Volvo, Peugeot, and Citroen. Main issue with those is the turbo giving up due to oil changes being left for too long/not correct oil used/filter not changed. The only injector issue I had on the Berlingo using the same engine was the seal going, easy to spot this as you can see a carbon build up around the injector itself.

If you got it 3 years ago you might not lose much money on it if you shift it on, but then you need to replace it and you're into a world of stupidly high priced second hand cars.

It would depend how many times your current car has failed and how much you trust it to be reliable after you've chucked money at it for me.

Due to lack of use and high second hand value we sold my wife's Discovery Sport last year and replaced it with an 11 year old BMW X1 with 107k on the clock which was pretty much paid for with the money we got out of the Discovery (Yay, £500pm saved).

We paid a bit over average price for what seemed like a decent one but since April it broke a drive shaft (fixed under warranty), cost £500 in tyres (two wore due to tracking, the rears replaced because they were mismatched and budget) and the icing on the cake was the clutch going pop in France that cost £3000+ and a load of hassle. We have only just recovered £1400 from RAC. It also needs a £200 suspension part that should really have been picked up by the garage.

By the time it got back from France (after it cut out for no reason) I was ready to cut our losses and get rid but since then it has actually run well and once the suspension bushing is sorted hopefully it will keep going for a while yet. I reckon if it can get to 2 years ownership without any major bills the early problems will have amortised. Big if though!

I'm also reluctant to sell the X1 as my lease car goes back in May so I have no choice but to either pay a fortune for a lease/PCP or pay through the nose for a second hand car on finance. Joy.

I'm a big fan of new cars having replaced one with another for pretty much my whole driving life but they are just not affordable atm.

In the current market I'd stick, prices are high and quality of second hand stuff is poor. Never a good combination. New would be no worse risk than normal but prices are high with low availability.

Any repair is cheaper than buying any other car (via whatever means) and atleast it’s a known quantity. You could buy any other car (new, nearly new or what ever) and have a mare with that.

I made that mistake with a Ka I had back around 2006. Had been faultless for the 3 years and 60k I had it for (bought new) but it needed a few bits all at the same time and I also got tempted by the dealer offering an upgrade to a Fiesta. Took the offer and the Fiesta was the most unreliable and poorly built pile of crap I've ever owned! Was stuck with it for 7 years for a few reasons before I traded it for my current Fabia in 2014. The Fabia has been utterly faultless in the 8 years and 167k I've had it and is now also in need of a few things doing to it (front suspension is needing a refresh, new discs and pads, small oil leak from the timing chain cover) and even without the crazy market right now I'll not make the same mistake again so it's getting all the work done around Easter time. My sister has just had to swap cars after her Zafira succumbed to terminal rust and the prices of the stuff she was looking at is crazy so there's no way I'm risking changing something good for an unknown!

With injectors I would bite the bullet and replace all 4 with new as soon as one fails.
Last car I faffed around with refurbing and cleaning them only lasted a few months before more injector issues. So at your mileage, wince, take the hit on parts cost but take the saving on labour by getting all done together. IMHO.

Check that the Auxillary Belt (related to cambelt?) is replaced at some point, a friend's went on their '63 plate about 3 years ago and it wrote off the engine / car. Its not on a servioce schedule but can properly wreck your car.

I keep going through a similar internal debate. Current car (Peugeot 5008) is 12yrs old, 140k miles and starting to get a bit tired. It's currently in the garage having some random bits of suspension replaced as the whole front suspension seems to be made of cheese and wears out far more often than I'd like.
But, with 3 kids it really just does what it needs to do with minimal fuss. Load space is big enough for most things, it gets properly abused for tip runs etc.
I keep looking at an upgrade, would love a Galaxy. But prices are just crazy at the moment, interest rates not very nice either and I simply can't justify the cost when the Peugeot just keeps on going, maybe needing £1k a year in mainentance and consumables. A new second hand car would probably need the same if not more and then I'd feel that I had to be precious about keeping it clean etc. And have to pay for it somehow on top of all that.

Better the Devil you know

I generally agree with this, but not always. It wasn’t until I bought my current car that I realised what a nightmare my previous one was. I almost had Stockhausen Syndrome with it or whatever it’s called. Kept it going cos it was never anything terminal, just endless little irritating things. It finally spectacularly failed it’s MOT which forced my hand.

Knowing when to upgrade/get rid is a skill too.

We're running 3 older cars here, 21 Year old Nissan Primera, 150k on the clock (the bike hauler), 10 year old Qashqai with about 55k on it, and a 12 year old Aygo with 110k on it.

This last year, the Primera's needed a couple of sensors (£50 new off ebay) but a little spendy on rear discs, 1 caliper and a front suspension knuckle. Otherwise no issues. Qashqai has needed next to nothing, although this year was new pads all round and a lower engine mount (£30). We've owned both from fairly new.

The Aygo was got cheap last year, but needed new discs and pads, new exhaust throughout, and an alternator. Previous owner just ran it without doing much to it, so it's now been fully serviced and fettled so it's OK for daughter to drive when she passes her test. The Aygo's cost about £1k in bits, but should be good for some years now before anything spendy.

None of them have left us at the side or the road though - all been planned service/wear and tear items. They are all Jap though. My son has loads more issue with his 2015 Fabia than the 3 of our Jap cars, and his had needed towing home a few times.

The impossible question to answer is how many future problems you will have, but this is also true of any secondhand car you buy...

If you buy again, then there's inevitably going to be an initial outlay, then the same potential for repairs on top, so unless it's cheaper in other ways (fuel economy, tax, insurance, maintenance, etc) then it will almost certainly cost more, if not a lot more.

Outside of some serious structural damage you can keep cars running indefinitely. It's a bit sad that they've become so disposable in this country. They will develop more niggles as they get older, but with current prices, the premium for a nearly new car, or something with low miles, is huge. The question is whether you want to pay many thousands of pounds more for the luxury of that reliability (which you may not even get). The cheap option is to fix what you have. Mine is coming up 20 years old now but I could easily spend £10k on a replacement 10 years newer and have more problems than I do now, so I'm definitely sticking for the time being. A few years ago that same replacement might have been around £4-5k.

On the fence. A newer car can end up costing less when you amortise the cost over the period of ownership. Plus your repair strategy goes in the mix. So, FWIW I've run cars from 15yr old bangers to 3yr old <30k at point of purchase... overall the cheapest to own and run for me:

Not doing your own repairs - 3yr 30k types
DIY king - 15yr old poverty spec models

Assuming the rest of the car is working OK. Replace the defective injector and probably the other two at the same time since they will probably let go soon too. Then drive for 6months and see if the car market / interest rates improve. So stick!

A newer car can end up costing less when you amortise the cost over the period of ownership.

I think that is possible but not the most likely outcome, unless you replace a less reliable type (e.g. turbo diesel) with a more reliable type (e.g. NA Japanese petrol). Or by 'newer' you can stretch to a car that's sill in warranty.

Just to give you some more context to this, as said above the PSA made 1.6 diesel (DV6 moniker) is found in a number of cars and the early revision of this engine uses Bosch solenoid injectors, lots of people report repeated turbo death issues assigning blame to poor oil change intervals, the oil pickup filter etc. But in fact the fault is with the injector clamp and there's a service bulletin from cit/pug stating as such. The clamps are flawed and either buckle or crack I forget which, this causes the injectors to chuff unburnt diesel into the seal area which you can often see as black goop encrusted round the injectors, eventually when it gets real bad this crud works into the engine and in turn can clog the turbo oil feed which is why people would replace the turbo and even the pickup pipe and just experience the same problem further down the road.

There is a redesigned replacement and I'm sure enough arguing with PSA would get you the parts for free but you'd still need to pay labour to get them fitted. I'd suggest keep the car. Check your two new injectors had new clamps and stretch bolts fitted at the same time and have the remaining old ones inspected for crud and if bad replace, along with a full oil drain and flush.

The newer dv6c (euro5) engine came with the the new clamps front the factory.

This page shows the clamp fork (item #11) with the old and new replacement part numbers listed on the right.

Surely if PSA know of the issue it should have been recalled?

My understanding is with non-safety critical stuff it gets flagged when you go in for a service, assuming you get your servicing done at the dealer. Only safety recalls are outwardly broadcast, and they will call up known owners but that relies on you hearing about it which you wouldn't if you're not the original purchaser.

We are having to buy a new car* due to almost daily use required, and ULEZ costs. First Direct have some decent rates and you can overpay if needed.

(If anyone wants a '08 4WD Kuga for 2.5k with recent cam belt & water pump as a bike car it should be available about May).

Surely if PSA know of the issue it should have been recalled?

A long term reliability issue is not what recalls are for.

Also bear in mind that 1.6 PSA diesel is in everything.

The cheapest car to run is the one you already own. Fix it, next month it'll more than likely be fine, guess what, thats a free month. The month after, yep, probably free too.

Yeah fair point, I had recalls done on previous cars (injectors on both as it happens) but I was the original purchaser on one and the other I bought from the main dealer ex-lease.

However it went in for new brakes a few weeks before MOT and the garage quoted £1200 of ‘needed for MOT/Urgent’ and another £1.5k of ‘ought to do’. For the first time I bailed and traded in a running car with life left in it.

I am really torn now – the V70We have been fortunate though – not all cars are as reliable. That said, I have good garage, chose a good wagon and stay on top of maintenance.
Sounds to me like either you never paid attention to your own advice keeping on top of maintenance or the garage were soft with MoTs in the past allowing things through

I've the same 1.6hdi in my v60, I service every 10k miles (instead of 12.5k) and do a bi-service engine flush too (it's about 70 quid and an hour to service). I also use the expensive fuel and it's running well at 210k miles. Just finished 1k trip around the UK for Xmas visiting.

What plate is yours? I'd be tempted to replace all the remaining injectors and do a full service (and check the retaining system on p1).

I'm a Volvo fan - Xc90 215k miles, V70 200k miles. They are maintained regardless of cost. I also have an old Berlingo.

However that 1.6 engine you have is crap - I would honestly sell it asap. Those injectors failing are the first step towards the turbo failing/scrapping the engine.

If you like the Volvo marquee then get one with a proper 2.4 Volvo engine rather than the PSA 1.6
Failing that something cheap and simple to clack about in till prices flatten.

If you like the Volvo marquee then get one with a proper [s]2.4[/s] 5cyl Volvo engine rather than the PSA 1.6

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