[Closed] Stepping up from riding 70k to 100-120k - any tips please?

Put less effort in for the first 70km so you've got energy/fitness for the extra distance.
Build up the distance/time in steps.
Keep eating and drinking.

Keep yourself fed & watered, up the distance gradually, don't push too hard.

If I do longer rides ,this works for me........
Start slower. One gear easier than you are capable of using on all climbs.
Rest on down hills. Eat every hour at least.

I would say if you can do 70km you can do 100-120km easily just by taking it easy. Eat and drink well, I would say eat something every half hour or so. Cramp is mostly down to just pushing too hard not electrolytes etc, its just taking your muscles beyond want they are used to.

Go slower, not much, just enough to cut the amount of time you spend pushing hard - I tend to think of it as doing the same climb but deliberately taking the next sprocket up, rather than just idling in the easiest gear. Food and watering yourself properly is a must.

Is it the cramp that you feel is stopping you from going further? Generally speaking, I'd say that stepping up from 70km to 100 or 120km should be pretty straightforward; just make sure you are fuelled and hydrated properly, and as mentioned above, pace yourself a bit at the start, if you are unsure about making it. Worst case, you might have to stop for a rest and have something to eat, if things get tough, but that sort of distance is unlikely to break you completely.

Cramp is a funny one, some people seem to succumb to it all the time, while others never experience it at all. I don't think there is a definitive answer on exactly what triggers it. I don't think electrolytes are necessarily important. I'd make sure you are properly fuelled before you start (get your porridge in) eat and drink regularly while riding, and make sure you are spinning a manageable gear, not mashing away and hammering your legs.

If your legs are cramping towards the end of 70km does that really mean you can do it comfortably? A comfortable ride is one where you come back feeling fine and like you could do a lot more, not with signs of cramp. Try a 70km ride at an easy pace while paying attention to feeing and hydration. If you feel fine at the end, keep riding.

My legs can cramp after 30 - 40km if I'm giving it the beans. Take it easy and 100km is fine.

Thanks all.

Pretty simple advice but all the best is...

Will give it it a whirl this week and go for 80k at a slower pace and eat more regularly.

If your legs are cramping towards the end of 70km does that really mean you can do it comfortably?

Only when i tried to push it a bit harder. I could do on the first 50k easy and stomp on the pedals. 50-70k was ok as long as i took it easy and didn't stomp.

I am defo more of a stomper than a spinner so sounds like i need to change more approach a little - as per the "drop a gear lower on the climbs".

I would focus more on your duration rather than distance - particularly when gauging things like drinking and eating. You don't say how long your rides are, but you should be thinking about topping up your energy reserves every 15-20 minutes from the off, that way you shouldn't run-out. Moderating your pace and in particular avoid going too hard on the climbs will help reduce muscle fatigue / cramps. There are no hard and fast rules as we all react differently and it's only through training that we find what works for us.

Simple answer is to ride more.
Longer answer is the ride more gradually. Add 5 or 10km every weekend. If you feel cramp coming up your cadence, trap and drink and take the pace off until you’re feeling better.
I too used to cramp after a couple of hours, but increasing my mileage means I don’t get it at all? I’ve done 200 mile+ rides now and not got it.

You don’t say how long your rides are

Was out for 6 hrs with 4 hrs of riding.

Took 30 mins for lunch and 20 mins for coffee and cake. The rest of the time was spent map reading. (70 mins reading a map!?!?).

Start easy. Finish strong. Pace yourself.

pseudo-scientific answer is that you have two energy systems, aerobic and anaerobic. You use the first most of the time and the second when pushing hard, and there's a quite distinct line between the two where they switch over.....as effort increases you dont go from 100% aer - 0% anaer to 80/20, 60/40, and so on, you go from 100/0 to 0/100 in an instant as you cross that boundary.

If serious about 'training' or getting faster then it's worth getting a meter (HR or power depending on budget and thinking) and working out what this point is but for mortals, you can sort of gauge it as being the point where your conversation goes from 'I can speak in sentences but then need a breather while my mate answers' to 'conversing in single words'. And obviously once the threshold's passed, the harder you go still the faster you use it up (pushing hard vs absolute balls out effort, etc.)

You have 'limitless' capacity for aerobic.....as long as you keep the food going in at the rate the body is using it within reason you can go on for ages. You have a finite reserve for anaerobic (glycogen in the liver and muscles FWIW) and when that's gone (about 2 hours give or take) then you're ****ed. The bonk, the man with the hammer, the wall.... I've seriously considered looking through bus stop bins in case anyone's dumped half a pasty (and some would say that I didn't really bonk because a/ I would have done it rather than consider it, and b/ I had the energy to rummage in a bin)

Anyway.....

to ride longer you need therefore to keep the anaerobic capacity back as much as you can, use the aerobic, and keep it fuelled. Simple as. For a big lad like me, on some hills just to keep moving will require anaerobic effort, so even more important then that you don't use it on bits you don't need to. So on the flats and downs, that's where you need to know your cutover point (by science or the talking test) and make sure you don't use your anaerobic stores up.

TL:DR go easier on the easy bits and save pushing on for the bits where you have to (good tip as above is find the gear you think you should be in and then come one or two down from it). Eat regularly, starting before you need to. Drink plenty; dehydration causes performance drop and cramping. And if you don't have a mate to talk to, talk to the trees and cows instead

Was out for 6 hrs with 4 hrs of riding.

Took 30 mins for lunch and 20 mins for coffee and cake. The rest of the time was spent map reading. (70 mins reading a map!?!?).

I think you've inadvertently given us at least part of the answer. You're not getting into any sort of steady rhythm if it's constant stop/get map out/put map away/start. You're doing a series of very short intervals with no chance for the body to settle into any sort of efficient energy usage mode. Like how driving through stop start city traffic is much less fuel efficient than cruising on a motorway.

Is this off-road or on-road by the way??

Try loading a route into whatever mapping device you have, doing a ride that you know well or (if it's on road) joining a club run and cut out all the short map reading stops, see how you get on.

Lunch and coffee stops are still mandatory!

And if you don’t have a mate to talk to, talk to the trees and cows instead

And when they start talking back, maybe have a coffee stop.

If you feel cramp coming up your cadence, trap and drink and take the pace off until you’re feeling better

Moderating your pace and in particular avoid going too hard on the climbs will help reduce muscle fatigue / cramps.

I have the same problem as the OP, and assumed the above advice was the way forward, but the problem is that on many (most?) Of the climbs in the Peak/lakes I've got no lower gearscleft and so there is no way of dropping cadence. The obvious option is to get off and walk, but I'm loathe to do so if I'm out for a bike ride.

I did notice TheRobColliver on that other thread espousing walkng up hills, so maybe i just need to suck it up for the benefit over overall daily km

I know that if I do 4 hours of riding with an average heart rate of 140 I'll feel pretty knackered afterwards so my approach to riding for longer is to watch my heart rate and back off. It's easy to being working harder than you think at times, I can being riding up a hill at 170 bpm without really being aware of how hard I'm working whereas if I were doing that on the turbo it would feel extremely hard.

I have the same problem as the OP, and assumed the above advice was the way forward, but the problem is that on many (most?) Of the climbs in the Peak/lakes I’ve got no lower gearscleft and so there is no way of dropping cadence. The obvious option is to get off and walk, but I’m loathe to do so if I’m out for a bike ride.

I did notice TheRobColliver on that other thread espousing walkng up hills, so maybe i just need to suck it up for the benefit over overall daily km

Not really. Walking up hills is knackering (especially to cyclists who usually aren't used to it!) and it's very slow (which adds HUGE amounts of time to the day while meaning you're covering almost no ground) and it's also very awkward because you're wearing cleats.

Better bet is to learn to do brief moments into the red on climbs (you don't have to do the whole thing at full gas, just moments where you might need to push a bit more over a brow before easing off again) and then recover on a flatter section or the descent. You'll get far fitter that way - those little above / below red line dips are where fitness gains come from, it's why you can do distance rides based on a diet of crit racing because your body has learnt to sit there at threshold and "micro-recover" during brief lulls in the action. The reverse is not true - you're unlikely to be much good at crit racing based on a diet of long endurance rides.

because you’re wearing cleats.

crit racing

OP, can you clarify. Are you talking off road or on road here? I'd assumed that since you're using km you were talking g about mountain bike rides.

As noted above, cramps are different for everyone, I get them if I've been riding for twelve hours or so, maybe a bit less if I've been pushing it a bit. Once I've worked them out of my system then I'm fine so a second or third day's riding I don't get them even though I'll be riding just as hard.

For long distance off-road riding, getting off and walking steeper hills is fine, the whole thing is about best use of energy so if trying to ride something means you red line/become anaerobic whereas walking & pushing the bike means you don't then you walk. Also you don't have to stay seated - for the steeper sections it's fine to stand and "stomp" at what would be ridiculously low cadences - do you "walk" up stairs at the equivalent of 90rpm? On the Highland Trail on my last day I ended up walking a section of 20% road between Strathcarron and Attadale: Oh! The shame! Then I read Lee Craigie's account - she walked the same bit of road, I didn't feel so bad then 😉

If you do push it and ride up a steep climb then give yourself some active recovery time afterwards rather than just pushing on again.

As @theotherjonv has hinted at: going at a pace that you can hold a conversation, whether that's with the cows or another rider is up to you, is a good indication that you aren't overdoing it. Later in the same day on the HT I teamed up with Jenny Graham and we rode to the finish together and basically talked all the way (TBF it wasn't exactly 50:50 in the conversation stakes!). That "day" was 27hrs long. We weren't going at any significant pace but we were moving forward.

I’d assumed that since you’re using km you were talking g about mountain bike rides.

That seems an odd statement. Am I wierd because I measure road rides in km just as often as I do mtb rides (mainly an upshot of measuring climbing in m not ft)?

OP, can you clarify. Are you talking off road or on road here?

Yeah this is kind of important! I'd assumed, given the distances being discussed, that it was on road because 100-120km off road is a big day out!

I assume the opposite, because a 6 hour day out with 4 hours riding to cover 60-70 km on road is quite a low average

Just reading all the respknses, thanks all.

In the mean time...

Its about 80% off road.

Yes kms.

eat, Eat EAT !!

Well I have too ?

Good luck

Thanks for all the comments.

I think you’ve inadvertently given us at least part of the answer. You’re not getting into any sort of steady rhythm if it’s constant stop/get map out/put map away/start.

Seems obvious now you have said it:)

Try loading a route into whatever mapping device you have, doing a ride that you know well

Yeah will do a route i know next and look into using some sort of mapping tool.

Yeah this is kind of important! I’d assumed, given the distances being discussed, that it was on road because 100-120km off road is a big day out!

Well i guess the real reason behind the question is because i am thinking about doing the HT550 next yeah. Not the official event just on my tod (maybe). So this is why I am looking at building my distance up.

So in summary: go slower, stop less (maybe have few but longer breaks - to eat more), eat/drink more, eat/drink regularly and don't try so hard.

Planning in going out on Thursday and doing an extra 10kms (80kms in total) so will report back.

Thanks again for all the advice:)

Where you doing these rides?
If it's in the Peak then I'm also trying to up my distance to do some long rides. Could meet up and tell each other to slow down!

Use a site like cricklesorg.wordpress.com to find your Lactate Threshold Heart Rate and use gearing, especially up climbs, that keeps you below that figure.

Freewheel down descents, where possible try to make yourself more aero.

Have a jelly baby every ~15mins after riding for ~60mins.

Have a swig of water every ~15mins after riding ~60mins.

The more often you push your distance envelope, providing you aren't overtraining, the more you can increase your pace (power).

Is the OP the same as funkydisciple on Bike Radar forum? He ran everybody ragged over there with the exact same question. Wouldn't take advice and kept telling everyone they were wrong.

(Names have a common theme!)

@thegeneralist I live in Leeds so tend to ride out north. Love the peaks though, but struggle to get there these days with a young family.

Is the OP the same as funkydisciple on Bike Radar forum? He ran everybody ragged over there with the exact same question. Wouldn’t take advice and kept telling everyone they were wrong.

No. Honest. Seems counter productive to ask for advice and then argue with the answer.

Have a jelly baby every ~15mins after riding for ~60mins.

Ok. Sounds great.

Though i would share an update...

Been out today. Was hoping for 80kms but Only managed 70kms off road due to time constraints in the end.

I ended up heading north out of leeds to stainburn via the chevin and back home over ilkley moor.

Was out for 5 hrs with 4.5 hrs of actually riding. Knew where i was going so no map reading which saved loads of time.

I followed all the advice and felt much better while out and post-ride. Eating a jelly baby and drinking every 15 mins Made a massive different to energy levels. Also knocking down to a lower gear on the climbs saved the legs.

Thanks everyone for chipping in with the advice. Will try and do 80kms next week. Based on how i felt today think it should be doable.

Cheers,
Christian