[Closed] Stephen Lawrence

Does this mean that the police force is no longer "institutionally racist"?

2 of the previous 5/6?

Let's hope the PCS can make it stick.

As an aside, why does it matter that SL was a talented young man who aspired to be an architect? Makes it sound like there are different grades of black kids. 🙄

Folk always want to speak well of the dead - well those that weren't serious criminals.

18 years since he was killed. Wasn't he about 18 years old when it happened?

I wonder how much material change has occurred within the Met as a result....

Does this mean that the police force is no
longer "institutionally racist"?

What by taking 18 years to seriously attempt to convict someone ?

Quite the opposite I'd say.

Folk always want to speak well of the dead - well those that weren't serious criminals.

I understand that, but it makes it sound as though there are different grades of people, with the implication being that if they didn't aspire to be a doctor/lawyer/architect, they are somehow less valued.

Very sad case. I hope for his families sake that this will bring some sort of closure.

I know what you mean GJ, but I guess they use profession to make a point - eg Tomlinson - innocent newspaper seller etc.

[i]I understand that, but it makes it sound as though there are different grades of people, with the implication being that if they didn't aspire to be a doctor/lawyer/architect, they are somehow less valued[/i]

That's probably a fair reflection of reality to a slight extent.
I mean if he'd been knife wielding crack pusher, with aspirations to get into big time drug importing, then yes I imagine he would be less valued.

Edit /sorry just realised this point's already been raised.

As an aside, why does it matter that SL was a talented young man who aspired to be an architect? Makes it sound like there are different grades of black kids.

Not to me. Just sounds like there are different grades of people. Are you racist and ageist?

Folk always want to speak well of the dead - well those that weren't serious criminals.

Yup, and that so bugs me.

I've instructed everyone to just say negative things about me in the event of my early demise (absolute waster, unliked universally by all, never had time for anyone, world better off without him...). Wouldn't that be so refreshing?

TAken 18 years for various reasons, firstly Met were muppets and messed up with original investigation. Secondly one of them has previously been tried so we didn't have double jeopardy until something like 2006 so couldnt' have tried them.

Interesing that they have kept it quiet since Sept but announced it now? Wonder why? I wonder how they will get a fair trial though? good to see someone stand trial and I hope his family finally get closure.

It occurred to me that if the two who have been charged are guilty and had confessed at the time they were first arrested they would probably be due for release soon, whereas if they are convicted this time they won't be out 'till they are in their fifties (or older). What a waste of so many lives this case has been.

Wouldn't that be so refreshing?

Lol

Munqe-chick - Member

TAken 18 years for various reasons, firstly Met were muppets and messed up with original investigation.Secondly one of them has previously been tried so we didn't have double jeopardy until something like 2006 so couldnt' have tried them.

I take it that you don't agree with the Macpherson Inquiry's conclusions concerning the Met's investigation into the death of Stephen Lawrence then, any particular reason why ?

Ernie, what are you getting at? I haven't made any comments on Macpherson Inquiry, I said the Met boo booed on their investigation. Name me someone who thinks the Met did a good job?

There were very big mistakes during the enquiry that undoubtedly hobbled the investigative process, particularly during the early phases. They include the SIO (a Detective Superintendent) not knowing powers of arrest, inadequate briefings, and the failure to investigate an anonymous letter received by the incident room. The absence of a successful prosecution was due to a combination of professional incompetence (especially revolving around command level responsibilities) and racism.

Significant progress has been made since those days IMHO – such as the use of Family Liaison Officers, guidelines as to the handling of victims and witnesses, particularly in the field of racist incidents and crimes, and ensuring that police systems provide for the pro-active use of local contacts within minority ethnic communities.

+1 for what Deluded said, i just couldn't be bothered to right it all in length thought "boo boo" was enough 😉

Munqe-chick, I noted you were busy on the police driving thread and thought I'd take up some of the slack 😀

Lol @ Deluded loving it! How you doing anyway? we should get out own section on this site 😉 Not posted on the Ken Clarke thread though.. oh that's a whole heap of worked up people in journalism!!

Munqe-chick,

Fine thanks. I note you have been promoted - well done. I'm A/DS'ing at the mo. No hope of promotions for some while my way.

I'm not going anywhere near that thread! My wife is a SAIT officer (Sexual Abuse Investigation Team) and interviews rape victims on a daily basis - I just wouldn't know where to start.

Ernie, what are you getting at?

Your investigative powers are obviously not your strong point ? I thought it was very clear 'what I was getting at'.

You said there were various reasons why taken it had taken 18 years, and gave two. Since you completely ignored the conclusion which was a central pillar in the report given by the guy who who was charged with finding out why the Stephen Lawrence case was such a **** up, I assumed you didn't agree with him - otherwise why ignore it ?

If someone who had never heard of the Stephen Lawrence case before asked "why did the Met **** up?", it could be summed to them in two words "institutional racism". Just saying "the Met were muppets" is hardly very revealing, and as far as I'm aware, it's not included in the report.

i just couldn't be bothered to right it all in length thought "boo boo" was enough

But you claimed you didn't know what I was "getting at"......make your mind up 😕

oh please don't bang on with the divisive bickering... 🙁

Jesus so I come across like Ernie is doing in this thread?

*has an epiphany*

As an aside, why does it matter that SL was a talented young man who aspired to be an architect? Makes it sound like there are different grades of black kids.

The saintly portrayal of SL since his death is a bit of a joke tbh. My brother in law was very good friends with him, and neither of them would have fitted that description at that time.

Very good that it finally looks like they are getting their commuppance.

Answer is I couldn't be bothered to go into the Macpherson report, it is simple the Met messed up I think enough people know what happened.

Are you racist and ageist?

You forgot talentist ... plenty of those around.

it is simple the Met messed up

If only it was that simple. The conclusion Macpherson came to wasn't that the Met simply messed up, he concluded that the Met behaved and acted in the way they did because of "institutional racism", he also concluded that the Met had ignored all of Lord Scarman's recommendations. The inference is absolutely crystal clear - had Stephan Lawrence not been black, then the Met would have treated his case differently.

I have no doubt that the Met today is a far better police force, and one which serves the needs of all Londoners better, as a direct result of the lessons learnt in the tragic Stephan Lawrence case. But those lessons have only been learnt because the Met accepted and addressed the central argument in the Macpherson report. Simply saying "we were muppets" would have completely missed the point.