[Closed] Stephen Fry lets rip at The Mail..

Stephen Fry, I love him nearly as much as I hate the Daily Mail.

The Daily Mail is generally a squalid little rag, I think many people agree. However I don't have time either for the likes of Fry and his own particular brand of intolerance. The intolerance that refuses to allow another people and culture to have a different set of moral values to his own.

He seems very much in favour of free speech as long as you agree with his point of view. If you don't then action should be taken against you.

Oh, and before you accuse me of siding with the Mail, or being anti gay, I'm not. I couldn't give two hoots what someone's sexuality is. However I'm more in favour of freedom of speech and accept that other people, and countries, see things differently to us.

PeterPoddy - Member

I usually have a lot of time for Stephen Fry. I like the chap.

Now, I have a LOT MORE time for him. Well done Mr F.

And, as aside, THAT'S how to rant, STW take note!

Plus 1. Times one million!

@Kennyp

-See what you mean but I don't think Mr Fry was being 'intolerant' in this case. He's defending himself. It's fair enough - DM asked for it when they dragged his name in.

I agree. In his defence of himself against the Mail he's quite justified, although I do think the journalist made a perfectly fair point when he said that Frys comparison of the situation in Russia to that of the murder of millions of Jews was quite offensive.

I was more having a dig at the section of society that preaches tolerance, respect for all people and freedom of speech. And who them lambast anyone who takes a differing stand to theirs as indulging in hate speech and who should be banned, by law, from having those opinions.

And again, to make my own feelings on the matter known (in case anyone thinks I agree with the Mail), in fact I disagree with the Russian laws, but I respect their right to hold their own moral values. As for Stephen Fry, I thnk he's brilliantly witty and clever, and love much of what he has done as a writer and performer. It's just this "I refuse to accept other people's point of view" attitude I find distasteful.

I don't understand why anyone is giving this letter any time at all. If it had come from any of us it would not have made news. So why is it deemed news when it's written by someone who has been on the telly? [b]What makes his opinion any more valid, right, or wrong, then anyone else's?[/b]

Excellent. Nearly as good as his speech on the value of the Catholic Church.

Stephen Fry......

You have moved even further up in my opinion.

You are brilliant. I'm glad to have someone so eloquent, intelligent and informed put into words the things I feel but am not clever enough to express myself.

The scary thing about the daily hate is that it is read by 'normal people' not just idiots who can be dismissed, and they vote, and they vastly outnumber those who have considered balanced opinons.

looking at the 'celebrity' pics, the hateful headlines are subtly absorbed into their heads without question and they form opinion based on the 'facts' in 'the paper'.

My gran actually told me once in all seriousness that the water shortage and hose pipe ban that summer was because the indians drank all the water....
This seems mad, but it is not that far removed from a typical daily hate storyline...

Thank you Mr Fry.

I like it as a paper and it serves a usful purpose.

It reminds me I have not turned into my dad.....................yet.

My aunt has lived in spain for a long time. She speaks to my mum regulalry, but my mum start getting worried about her. [b]Everytime they spoke on the phone my mum said she was asking how my mum was coping with the place being over run by imigrants, cancer rates soaring, the NHS crumbling, swans being shot by feral youth on mini motos with airguns etc[/b].

Thats what you get when you vot for the con -servatives and read the daily hate filled mail

What a sanctimonious right on prat Stephen Fry is - he gets involved in the political fray and then crys foul when someone disagrees with him and it becomes a "personal vendetta" - bless. Going back to his original point why should a load of poorly paid tray sliders and curlers give up their once on a lifetime chance in the limelight to promote his cause? Why shouldn't he look to the arts rather than sport for support - or would that involve people he knows losing out?

What a sanctimonious right on prat Stephen Fry is

He just does it so well.

Do you like the Daily Mail then?

I admire it as a business as it is pretty successful and much to my embarrassment I am occasionally drawn into the right hand column of shame on its website, but otherwise pretty ambivalent. Like most of us it has moments it can be proud of and others that should embarrass it.

Like most of us it has moments it can be proud of

Any links to those?

others that should embarrass it.

No need for any examples of those. There are plenty every day. (Though, its MO is not to be embarrassed at being exposed for lying over and over and over and over and over again.)

I think you will find it was pretty much universally lauded for its campaigning for justice in the Stephen Lawrence case.

Well bully for the Daily Mail for going out on a limb and telling us something we all knew.

Any more?

It risked contempt of court naming the murderers - not many papers do that - there are no doubt others but I dont read it every day.

The thing about Fry is that he is manifestly a very intelligent and cogent man. He is not infallible, but he does not claim to either. I have heard him utter "religion, shit it all" then go on about all the wars that have been fought and people killed as a result. I could easily argue against this with the observation that we have no way of knowing what a world without religion would be like. Also, seeing as most religions do impose a certain amount of moral restraint on their adherents, you could argue that, on the whole, they have saved more lives than they have taken.

In this instance Fry was, in my reading, trying to criticise religion for imposing constraints on free thought. He had a valid point, but weakened it by going off on a mini rant.

There you go. Even if you admire someone for their intellect, you should still be objective.

Starkey versus Fry would be a good watch. I would want Fry to win, but that is irrelevant. It should be down to whose argument held water the better.

The Mail, on the other hand, would blatantly back Starkey to the hilt irrespective. Because they would already have their (small) minds made up. That is the point. Don't substitute dogma for thinking.

Also consider that media personalities are generally gratified by attention. So we ought to deduce that sometimes they may be saying things at a particular time because they know it will get them talked about. Starkey waded in after the 2011 riots with some observations that were incredibly badly timed, or well timed if you want to cause ructions. He left these comment open-ended deliberately, but his intent was to stimulate a cause and effect connection to be made in the minds of his audience. This was arch manipulation.

It risked contempt of court naming the murderers - not many papers do that - there are no doubt others but I dont read it every day.

It said something that everybody knew to sensationalise a case and flog rags. They knew that those they named were never going to sue for libel.

So anyway, just the one then. Fairy nuff.

It risked contempt of court naming the murderers - not many papers do that - there are no doubt others but I dont read it every day.

It risked screwing up the trial. There are reasons why such actions are held to be contemptible.

...the systematic incineration of six million Jews in industrial ovens bears no comparison with the marginalisation and repression of minorities in Putin’s Russia...

...Frys comparison of the situation in Russia to that of the murder of millions of Jews was quite offensive...

To simplify it;
Fry is comparing Putin now with Hitler in the early '30s.
With no significant international disapproval, the situation in Russia could potentially progress the same way over the next few years.

Any one who takes the daily mails attack on Fry comparing Putin to Hitler is historically illiterate. The point is Hitler did not come to power with ready made death camps and a police state . It was built up over time because he was not challenged by international powers but was appeased and supported, the Berlin Olympics may have shown the world a black man could run fast but they did not sway Nazi ideology from it's path and helped Hitler promote himself and his government at home and abroad.

I'm not sure that standing up for the right of a significant number of your fellow humans not to be imprisoned for no reason and subjected to state sanctioned torture and murder can be described as a personal cause.

It was a good rant but I don't agree with Fry over the Olympics in Russia. A bit too precious for his own good I think.

Fry is a performer/actor and always seeking attention.... hmmmm 😉

A bit like the last two contributors to the thread.

I'm not sure that standing up for the right of a significant number of your fellow humans not to be imprisoned for no reason and subjected to state sanctioned torture and murder can be described as a personal cause.

At least you're learning to spell bloodynora. We can tackle your bigotry next. And then, we can start on your racism. I fear that may be deeply ingrained though. 😐

Go deadlydarcy Go!

You sock it to 'em. What a guy.

It's an honour to have two of STW's most contemptible members on my case this evening enfht. You go too guy. I'll look forward to hearing when you have something constructive to say. Although, when you last tried to engage, it didn't go well for you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Russia

Just like uk plc a few years ago, in the thatcher era and before,clause 28 and all that shitt.

Hopefully we can have bob sponge brain on this thread too

no he just starts threads and then leaves once he gets inevitably pwned. These two keep going despite the pwning

now then deadlyfarcy you could teach fry a thing or two. Insulting a guy on his spelling, nice. Sorry I missed that, someone disagrees with you so insulting them is your recourse, quality engagement on your part.

So that you understand I'm no fan of the mail I think all know it all bullies are gits.

Puts the kettle on. Biscuit anyone?

Biscuit anyone?

Got any Oreos?

[img] [/img]

now then deadlyfarcy...

blah blah blah...

I think all know it all bullies are gits.

Just for your benefit mt, there is a context to my spelling comment. I couldn't bear you thinking I'm a know-it-all bully or a git for that matter, and as the forum search function is a bit of a faff to use, if you need to find it, have a look-see. 🙂

Insulting a guy on his spelling

It looks more like he sarcastically praised someone who used a racist term - granted a weak one so he could defend its use* - to get a rise

What is the appropriate response to someone being racist towards you?

FWIW he has never insulted my spelling and I give him loads of opportunities

* I think we can take it as a given that it was not used as a warm term of endearment [ because the dictionary says it is a disparaging term for a person of Irish birth] or banter between friends- clearly they are not friends.

It's an honour to have two of STW's most contemptible members on my case this evening

[img] [/img]

*Waits for ernie to sort that picture link.*

[img] [/img]

EDIT: Doggone too late. 🙂

What about all the good work done by the Fail to uncover the truth about the death of Diana? Oh wait it wasn't.

Yes deadly but it still came across like the big boy in the play ground and you confirmed it with your blah blah comment. 😉

Yes deadly but it still came across like the big boy in the play ground and you confirmed it with your blah blah comment.

I assure you, neither was intended to come across like that. In your hurry to jump in, you may have misunderstood me. If you did, then accept my apologies. I am, however, delighted to have impressed you so much that you thought I could teach Stephen Fry a thing or two though - I really couldn't. 😉

Oh ffs mt. enfht comes on here specifically to throw insults at people, and bloodynora to remind everyone how daft he is : [url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/naming-the-new-baby/page/2#post-5181025 ]example[/url]

The least we can do is not ignore them.

Blimey do some people really think that running about, jumping over stuff and throwing things is more important than peoples lives?

Report it then!

Who? Me? I don't report anything......nothing offends me.

Since post has been deleted due to a complaint I shall take a different approach that I hope conveys the same sentiment without the including the fact that caused the offence. If I miss a bit remind me but I trying to keep it short.

deadly, you could teach Fry something none of us is perfect and have lessons to learn. I don't think Fry is right (he is on DM) regarding the Olympics as its to late now. Did not just jump in as I posted earlier but it was a poor. Since you have apologised I then it obvious that the impression given is misunderstood, my apologies to you. 🙂

Earnie, sorry! 🙂

Time for work.

Hmmm. Great response to the Mail by Fry, an excellent read.

Re the Olympics, I think all our athletes, irrespective and inclusive of all all sexual preferences should go to the games, representing our country, strong and determined to win in all disciplines.

Hitler has been referenced a lot in the articles and texts above. No-one yet has mentioned Jesse Owens at the games and the powerful image and after effect this had in changing the perception of a lot of people.

In today's speak, Jesse "Owns" Hitler at those games and the World saw it that way.

Being a strong UK team, going to Russia competing and winning provides a great chance to embarrass the very attitudes we / I dislike on both the world stage and on the home turf of the narrow minded.

Now I'm not suggesting that the whole team charge off to Russia with an overt pro-gay rights agenda but personally, I feel there is more to be gained by going and facing the challenge than staying at home and shouting and stamping our feet about it from a distance...

Putin presenting gold medals to a worthy winner (who just may be gay and from [i]any[/i] nationality), won't happen but would be a priceless moment.

I love Fry's work, QI is good, Blackadder was brilliant.
He is a great wordsmith too....but sometimes he comes across as a bit whiney.
Putin on the other hand is a true alpha male and has probably never heard of Stephen Fry.

Is it OK to like them both?

Yes but be careful. Theres one of them I would trust and one I would not.

Fry should be made Editer of the Mail, and the Editer of the mail should be bumm.... No.. Lets leave it at that....
I'd love to see the Mail readers reaction to a Fry edition though...
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Careful Deviant. Now that you've said that you like Putin (and who wouldn't like a man who punches crocodiles and stuff), if you now say that, in the light of new evidence, you've changed your mind, you tend to end up in prison. Or dead.

I doubt Stephen Fry employs any similar tactics

Yes the democratic tendencies of Fry is a real weakness in his character and one of Putins many many strengths

Theres one of them I would trust and one I would not.

No-one yet has mentioned Jesse Owens at the games and the powerful image and after effect this had in changing the perception of a lot of people.

Yes the way his victory crushed the Nazi agenda and ideals leading to Hitlers downfall. I feel certain that some gay athletes will do exactly the same in Russia and lead to a whole revision of their attitudes re homosexuals just like Jesses victories did to the Nazis

Jesse's performances publicly refuted the Nazi ideology that Aryans were naturally superior, a claimed superiority used to justify denying equal rights to all humanity.

Everything, including resistance to evil autocracy, begins with an idea.

Yeah, but he could have done that by just showing that he was, like, better at dancing, 'n rapping, 'n shit

you don't need Stephen Fry to make yourself aware of the Daily Mail and what it's editorial content stands for.
if you do then that suggests you lack any insight or objectivity as to how the world works. you probably look to Russell Brand for moral guidance too.

What's so good about being an alpha male?

is that the main feature in next weeks Mail on Sunday magazine?

Nobody can nick your dinner money Molly

*longs to be an alpha male, while weeping hungrily*

Good to see another victory for the Daily Mail they have got the governing parties to pay Joan Edwards' bequest to the Treasury - even Polly Toynbee was complimentary.

Jesse's performances publicly refuted the Nazi ideology that Aryans were naturally superior, a claimed superiority used to justify denying equal rights to all humanity.

Everything, including resistance to evil autocracy, begins with an idea.

But did not stop them from attempting to carry out "their Ideals". Yes you can go to the Olympics and show solidarity to those being oppressed, but all of that will simply be swept under the carpet and normal service resumed by Russia.

We have the entire history of the Human race to draw upon, and it tells us if we appease, other get oppressed or worse. It's a lesson our political masters conveniently forget.

Jesse's performances publicly refuted the Nazi ideology that Aryans were naturally superior, a claimed superiority used to justify denying equal rights to all humanity.

Well yes, but do you know which head of state refused to meet Jesse Owens? (I got the answer from QI!)

Anyway, I haven't seen this for a while:

cut and paste but:-
"Any notion that the Germans were “embarrassed” because of victories by non-Whites at the Berlin Games is ridiculous. Jesse Owens is very prominently featured in Olympia, the official German documentary of the Games. Leni Riefenstahl's film masterwork also devotes great attention to many other non-Whites, including outstanding Japanese athletes. The same holds true in the deluxe, semi-official German picture book commemorating the Games, Die Olympischen Spiele 1936, released by the Cigaretten-Bilderdienst. Jesse Owens is pictured seven times in this book - more than any other athlete - and is admiringly referred to as "the fastest in the world.” A large picture in the book records the chiseling of the victors' names in granite at the stadium - and singled out in this picture is: “Owens U.S.A.”

Despite the remarkable achievements of Jesse Owens, and of other athletes of all races, Germany did capture more gold medals than any other nation, thus “winning” the Olympics - a fact usually ignored in discussions of the 1936 Games."
From The Journal of Historical Review, Spring 1984 (Vol. 5, No. 1), pages 123-125
It is really simple Boycott the games Russians ask "why are our games rubbish?" Putin looks like a fool . don't boycott the games and Putin looks like a strong leader and gets the message the world don't care about the civil rights of his citizens or indeed those of our own athletes and visitors to Russia.

It is really simple Boycott the games Russians ask "why are our games rubbish?" Putin looks like a fool

Really? Russia win 75% of the medals. Putin thinks Russia is god-like in sports events and crows continually to all who'll listen (including his own country).

Fry could have made his point much better if he hadn't reverted to the playground equivalent of "and your mum smells" (albeit in a much cleverer way) at the end of the riposte.

Have there been any fresh developments in Fry versus the Volkischer Beobachter today?

There must be some kind of pun involving the name Fry. The obvious one is inappropriate. How about calling the Mail's anti-Fry militia the Fry-korps?

I bet they'd get all turned on by the riding breeches, and above all, the discipline.

I suspect they are having a huge meeting at Racist Towers, AKA Daily Mail, with a plan to destroy Fry.

Good to see another victory for the Daily Mail they have got the governing parties to pay Joan Edwards' bequest to the Treasury - even Polly Toynbee was complimentary.

Hitler was a vegetarian you know. 😉

Aye and he only had one ball, got that from Dads Army. Is that alpha male?

There must be some kind of pun involving the name Fry. The obvious one is inappropriate.

Arbeit macht ...........

Not appropriate or funny.

Calling Dacre's henchmen the fry-korps does tickle me, though.