Staying in the EU f...
 

  You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more

Staying in the EU for ~6 months, queries..

55 Posts
31 Users
42 Reactions
233 Views
Posts: 0
Free Member
Topic starter
 

Yay, thanks Brexit.

Wife and I are planning on spending between 3 and 6 months towing the caravan around Europe. We only get 90 days now via Schengen in the whole area, but won't be spending more than a month or 2 in any one country, if anyone has done something similar, do we Really have to apply for a long term stay visa in basically every country after the 90 days?


 
Posted : 21/01/2024 3:43 pm
Posts: 133
Free Member
 

I thought it was just one visa for the Schengen area, not individual countries.


 
Posted : 21/01/2024 3:47 pm
Posts: 11402
Free Member
 

I thought it was visits to the Schengen area from the UK are limited to 90 days in every 180 days.


 
Posted : 21/01/2024 3:51 pm
Posts: 6686
Free Member
 

Just out of interest, what happens if you are over 90 days and come back to the UK?<br />Naughtt step?<br />Stand in the corner with a road cone on your head?<br />Lines and stay back after school?<br />Slapped legs<br />Fine?<br />Cavity search?<br />Prison sharing a cell with Bubba?


 
Posted : 21/01/2024 3:55 pm
Posts: 44146
Full Member
 

I could find no way of getting a visa for this.  You can apply for a longer visa for an individual country but not for multi country visits.

However no one checks which countries you have been in - so you could get a visa for 6 months for say France, travel around and on leaving you could claim that you spent most of the time in France.  the only check is on entry and exit from the EU<br /><br />However this is just surmise from me


 
Posted : 21/01/2024 3:55 pm
matt_outandabout, kelvin, kelvin and 1 people reacted
Posts: 45504
Free Member
 

^ I've read up and ended up concluding what TJ did. Apply for one country and pretend you've been there for 6 months.

I've no idea what happens if you book on a ferry or similar and passport/immigration control, so do consider that.


 
Posted : 21/01/2024 3:58 pm
Posts: 6209
Full Member
 

Yup, one of my brothers came to same conclusion as TJ & Matt 😕 whilst the other brother became a french citizen, ****ing Brexit.


 
Posted : 21/01/2024 4:07 pm
kelvin and kelvin reacted
Posts: 7433
Free Member
 

Just out of interest, what happens if you are over 90 days and come back to the UK?

Don't know for sure but would assume the biggest risk is that they don't let you back in next time you want a holiday.


 
Posted : 21/01/2024 4:08 pm
chrismac, kelvin, kelvin and 1 people reacted
Posts: 15068
Full Member
 

Don’t know for sure but would assume the biggest risk is that they don’t let you back in next time you want a holiday.

Basically this, or arrest/deportation if you get caught before before you return at your cost as you'll be/have been, an illegal immigrant.

I've not seen any examples of this, but given the way the UK treats people who don't have the correct visas, I wouldn't bank on an EU country cutting you too much slack.


 
Posted : 21/01/2024 4:45 pm
kelvin and kelvin reacted
Posts: 13916
Free Member
 

Apparently Portugal has prosecuted exactly zero people for overstaying so far..... the French are the biggest prosecutors.


 
Posted : 21/01/2024 4:50 pm
Posts: 9201
Full Member
 

Also need to consider what happens if you need medical treatment, is there impact there?


 
Posted : 21/01/2024 4:51 pm
Posts: 45504
Free Member
 

It depends if your insurer is going to ask for visas etc...


 
Posted : 21/01/2024 4:58 pm
Posts: 7618
Free Member
 

The easiest way I've found round this was to have an Irish mother.


 
Posted : 21/01/2024 5:07 pm
kelvin and kelvin reacted
Posts: 44146
Full Member
 

I do wonder if there is a loophole.  You can cross from Uk into NI without a visa or passport check due to the common travel area.   IIRC the Republic of Ireland ( I have been told off before for what to call it but cannot remember if this is acceptable 🙂 ) has entry to mainland EU visa and passport control free as its in Schengen and there is now a ferry direct from ROI into France - so theoretically you could go Scotland / NI / ROI / France without passing a passport control

I contemplated trying this on my big bike ride but did not.  I did spend more than 90 days in EU countries tho as the time in ROI did not appear on my passport

Dunno if anyone has tried it and there might be questions asked as to why you do not have an entry stamp if you leave the EU via a more conventional border


 
Posted : 21/01/2024 5:15 pm
Posts: 141
Free Member
 

I'm planning a long trip this summer, was going to spend a month in Andorra and a couple in Montenegro as these are not in the Schengen.  Just have to make sure get passport stamped in and out as proof.


 
Posted : 21/01/2024 5:24 pm
Posts: 3943
Free Member
 

Just out of interest, what happens if you are over 90 days and come back to the UK

Nothing. Its when you try to reenter the EU the next time it will be problamatic


 
Posted : 21/01/2024 5:24 pm
kelvin and kelvin reacted
Posts: 44146
Full Member
 

cat69 - you have to have 90 days out to reset the 90 day in clock IIRC.


 
Posted : 21/01/2024 5:26 pm
kelvin and kelvin reacted
Posts: 15068
Full Member
 

you have to have 90 days out to reset the 90 day in clock IIRC.

IIRC it's a rolling total, same as how sick days are calculated at work, etc.


 
Posted : 21/01/2024 5:29 pm
Posts: 13134
Full Member
 

It depends if your insurer is going to ask for visas etc…

If we're talking insurers avoiding paying out thousands, I'd not be betting against them doing some pretty basic checks. See also your house insurance if you are away that long without telling them.

Not very environmentally efficient, but could you take a v cheap flight back to the uk for the weekend every 3 months?


 
Posted : 21/01/2024 6:23 pm
Posts: 5382
Free Member
 

Get a Schengen app on your phone, and plan your trip as you go, you can pop in and out of areas out side of the Schengen zone to extend your stay (Andorra / Bulgaria etc.). The app will total up your time and work out how many days you have to go. When coming back to the UK allow enough days for travelling back to the Eurostar or ferry. The app will then indicate on what day you can return and for how many days from your first visit within the zone.


 
Posted : 21/01/2024 6:29 pm
Posts: 15068
Full Member
 

Not very environmentally efficient, but could you take a v cheap flight back to the uk for the weekend every 3 months?

It doesn't work like that, it's cumalative & rolling.. so if you were away for 60 days, flew back to the uk for 1 day, and then flew out for another 31 days, you could be in bother.

And you wouldn't be able to return to the EU for another year thereafter anyway.

Flying back to the UK, or just somewhere out of the EU, as a UK citizen it does not reset the 90 day clock, it's 90 days in any 12 month rolling period.

Whether you can sneakily get away with it, is a different subject, but thems the rules.


 
Posted : 21/01/2024 6:29 pm
convert, kelvin, kelvin and 1 people reacted
Posts: 506
Full Member
 

@mattyfez - it’s 90 days in 180, not in a year
https://www.gov.uk/travel-to-eu-schengen-area


 
Posted : 21/01/2024 6:48 pm
susepic and susepic reacted
Posts: 15068
Full Member
 

@lorax yes sorry, 90 in any 180, my mistake.

Same principal applies though.


 
Posted : 21/01/2024 6:50 pm
Posts: 1080
Free Member
 

Yes it's a rolling 180-day window. So flying back to the UK for two full days gives you two full days back in Schengen, the flying days count as days in Schengen and there is no 'restarting' of the clock. If the OP wants more than 90 days every 180 then yes you need to apply for a ling-term visitor visa. Reading a few countries embassy pages, these look like they would give you temporary resident status (with clauses on employment) so if that is the case you would be free to travel around Schengen area with that visa. 

NB Republic of Ireland isn't in Schengen. 

For medical emergencies I believe the reciprocal agreement doesn't have any time limits, but you'll want travel insurance in case of a need for e.g. repatriation. https://www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/healthcare-abroad/apply-for-a-free-uk-global-health-insurance-card-ghic/

As for the consequences of over-staying, when leaving you'll get a black mark against your passport. Typically you might expect anything from a telling off, a fine, to a ban on re-entry to Schengen for some length of time (decided by courts). If you got a ban there are some countries that require you to declare it, so it could cause future travel issues not just in Europe. I like travel and have had jobs where it's a requirement to be able to travel, so I wouldn't risk an overstay. Netherlands have a nice summary of their thresholds and punishments  https://ind.nl/en/entry-ban#consequences-of-the-entry-ban


 
Posted : 21/01/2024 6:54 pm
kelvin and kelvin reacted
Posts: 506
Full Member
 

Yep, I agree @mattyfez, the same principle applies, although it’s rolling so the return would be blocked for 90 days after the initial 90, after which the allowance would start creeping back up. 

As others have said, **** Brexit…


 
Posted : 21/01/2024 7:00 pm
mattyfez, kelvin, kelvin and 1 people reacted
Posts: 15068
Full Member
 

As others have said, **** Brexit…

Yep, the will of the people...they didn't consider freedom of movement applied to them, too!


 
Posted : 21/01/2024 7:04 pm
chrismac and chrismac reacted
Posts: 2609
Full Member
 

Any Irish parents/grandparents.  That's our plan - get our Irish passports

Otherwise **** Brexit - we were away for 7 months before the Brexit with zero hassle.


 
Posted : 21/01/2024 7:18 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
Topic starter
 

Funnily enough, my wife's mother was Irish. Does it need to be on 'both sides'?


 
Posted : 21/01/2024 7:32 pm
 myti
Posts: 1815
Free Member
 

Go over to Morroco if you need to get out of Schengen but don't want to go back to UK. 90 days allowed in Morocco and they have great weather in winter. I'm there now and was swimming at sunset then cooked dinner outside in shorts and t shirt.


 
Posted : 21/01/2024 7:37 pm
Posts: 3284
Free Member
 

Pre Brexit I was in Europe for 100 days straight. On our return the passport control very much knew how long I had been away, and asked me some amusing and cryptic questions. I have no doubt that there is a system in place that can log entry and exit dates as you would imagine there might be. How that info is acted on and who has it is unclear to me though


 
Posted : 21/01/2024 7:42 pm
Posts: 15068
Full Member
 

Funnily enough, my wife’s mother was Irish. Does it need to be on ‘both sides’?

I think it has to be your 'blood line' so you're stuffed? but don't quote me on that... marriage may change it? your kids could get duel citizenship though, as it goes back as far as grandparents.


 
Posted : 21/01/2024 7:45 pm
Posts: 1017
Free Member
 

This calculator might be useful as it works on countback.

https://www.visa-calculator.com/


 
Posted : 21/01/2024 7:59 pm
 mrmo
Posts: 10687
Free Member
 

Funnily enough, my wife’s mother was Irish. Does it need to be on ‘both sides’?

She can get an Irish Passport, then I believe you can travel with her,

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/non-eu-family/index_en.htm


 
Posted : 21/01/2024 8:23 pm
 mrmo
Posts: 10687
Free Member
 

How that info is acted on and who has it is unclear to me though

https://www.frontex.europa.eu/


 
Posted : 21/01/2024 8:25 pm
Posts: 70
Free Member
 

The EU are going to bring in an electronic system but it has been continuously delayed.

Before travelling you would have to apply for permission to enter by filling in a form from the internet.Supposed to be around 7 euro.

The system would register your entry and exit as you passed through border control even if it was different EU countries. Your number of days would be instantly worked out and if over the limit alert border control .

Fines,black marks in passport,registered on the above system may all apply.


 
Posted : 21/01/2024 8:53 pm
Posts: 141
Free Member
 

God I'm confused or a bit simple.  So if on June 1st I go to Andorra for 2 months and Montnengro for 2 months(I know travelling between the two will use up days in the Schengen) and then 2 months in France/Italy wherever I would still have a month spare in Europe to use at a later date?


 
Posted : 22/01/2024 9:21 am
Posts: 265
Free Member
 

Yes. But just to add to the confusion. If you did 2 months France, 2 months Andorra, 2 months Montenegro (in that order). Totalling 6 months, you could then have another 3 months in France afterwards as your initial 2 months would be over 6 months ago. I.e. falling out the back of your moving 6 month window.


 
Posted : 22/01/2024 9:31 am
kelvin and kelvin reacted
Posts: 141
Free Member
 

@nealc never thought of that!! I had nothing set in stone so that helps loads. Cheers!


 
Posted : 22/01/2024 10:21 am
Posts: 44146
Full Member
 

NB Republic of Ireland isn’t in Schengen.

true - I thought it was but its sort of half in and half out.


 
Posted : 22/01/2024 10:25 am
 kilo
Posts: 6666
Full Member
 

The EU are going to bring in an electronic system but it has been continuously delayed.

European entry system and biometrics is scheduled for late 2024, possibly put back until after Paris Olympics. Expect new levels of pain at Dover and the chunnel when that kicks in.


 
Posted : 22/01/2024 10:31 am
Posts: 18073
Free Member
 

To stay in France/Andorra for more than three months you'd need a multi-entry French or SpanishVisa so you could get in and out of Andorra, nealc. Your ruse doesn't work, you'd be recorded as overstaying in France.


 
Posted : 22/01/2024 11:20 am
Posts: 141
Free Member
 

FFS!! Nowt simple.


 
Posted : 22/01/2024 11:42 am
Posts: 1127
Free Member
 

Can we add this whole chat to the Brexit Benefits Thread?


 
Posted : 22/01/2024 11:52 am
kelvin and kelvin reacted
Posts: 265
Free Member
 

No you wouldn't. At the end of month 6 you would have had 2 months in the EU. You then go to France. At the end of month 7 you have had 3 months. But only 2 in the last 6. After 8 months 4 months, but only 2 in the last 6. After 9 months, 5 months, but only 3 in the last 6. This is the point you have to leave.


 
Posted : 22/01/2024 11:53 am
Posts: 18073
Free Member
 

According to the EU authorities you'd have had 4 months in France/EU, how would you prove otherwise as there there are no checks on the way into Andorra and the only people likely to stop you are the French customs on the way out? Anyhow:
https://www.exteriors.ad/fr/voyager-en-andorre
I'm sure the same page exists in English if you Google it. It says you have to check with the French/Spanish authorities to check if you need a visa and for four months you'd need one. Short of a private helicopter you can't fly into Andorra so you have to transit through France or Spain and it's those countries that you have to contact. France would probably suggest getting a 6-month visa.
Besides, who wants to spend 2 month in Andorra?


 
Posted : 22/01/2024 12:14 pm
kelvin and kelvin reacted
 mert
Posts: 3831
Free Member
 

I’ve not seen any examples of this, but given the way the UK treats people who don’t have the correct visas, I wouldn’t bank on an EU country cutting you too much slack.

I've seen a few people caught in Sweden and Denmark (and trying to transit through other countries to circumvent the legislation). Some are those who actually did have the right to remain, but thanks to a big dose of stupidity, they didn't fill in the very simple forms. So, yeah. Penalties so far, that i'm aware of, vary from a slap on the wrist and being sent home (at their own expense) up to a 3 year ban and a €1200 fine, that was someone trying to sneak in via a ferry from UK to HoH after already being sent back from Kastrup once.

One of them even got themselves banned from the facebook page they were whining about it on, because they wouldn't stop whining about how unfair it all was. I wouldn't be that surprised if they voted leave either.


 
Posted : 22/01/2024 12:26 pm
Posts: 30093
Full Member
 

Glad we're rid of all that EU red tape, and can now do whatever we want. Freedom. Control. Whatever...


 
Posted : 22/01/2024 12:27 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
Topic starter
 

Indeed... Current plan is to apply for long stay tourist visa in France and Italy and use up the rest of the 90 days in the other countries. It might end up that we apply for a long stay visa in Spain too...


 
Posted : 22/01/2024 12:47 pm
Posts: 6209
Full Member
 

Having just filled in some tourist visa applications for elsewhere in the world, I'd imagine you really don't want to be ticking any of the have you been refused entry boxes if you did get caught out breaking the rules.


 
Posted : 22/01/2024 1:16 pm
kelvin and kelvin reacted
Posts: 5560
Full Member
 

Glad we’re rid of all that EU red tape, and can now do whatever we want. Freedom. Control. Whatever…

TBH this is stuff that could have been handled better than the run for the door,EU citizens get 180 days when visiting the U.K. and as long as re-enter it isn’t being used to live in the U.K. re-enter again to finish their year van life trip around the U.K. 🙂


 
Posted : 22/01/2024 1:16 pm
Posts: 30093
Full Member
 

TBH this is stuff that could have been handled better

Of course it good. But you know who we chose to do the handling... that's on us.


 
Posted : 22/01/2024 1:20 pm
Posts: 265
Free Member
 

@edukator  didn't know that re Andorra. I though it was full of Brexit avoiding Brits. Clearly not.

@wildc4rd how easy are long term visas to get tho? I didn't think 'cos I wanna stay longer and voted remain' counted as a valid reason?


 
Posted : 22/01/2024 1:22 pm
 kilo
Posts: 6666
Full Member
 

According to the EU authorities you’d have had 4 months in France/EU, how would you prove otherwise as there there are no checks on the way into Andorra<br /><br />

You’d stop and ask the Andorran / French/ Spanish border staff to stamp your passport as leaving Schengen?


 
Posted : 22/01/2024 1:40 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
Topic starter
 

My understanding is that as long as you have the funds (equivalent to the minimum wage in France for the length of time you wish to stay), its fine. I expect reality won't be Quite that simple, but here is hoping!


 
Posted : 22/01/2024 1:40 pm
 mert
Posts: 3831
Free Member
 

Just checked, and yes, it was a raging brexiter who got the three year ban, he's now back in the UK, whining about all the unfairness and trying to get a "reunification via family ties".
His ex wife and adult kids (plus grandkids) live in and around the west coast of Sweden. His business is also registered in Göteborg.
He's not having much luck from what i can see. Can't imagine being fined and deported has done him any favours.


 
Posted : 22/01/2024 1:46 pm
Posts: 18073
Free Member
 

There's no doubt a way of spending more time in Andorra without breaking any rules, nealc, because that's in the agreement, people can stay in Andorra with Andorra's agreement as long as Andorra wants, but it's not as easy as driving over the border. Brits there aren't avoiding Brexit because Brexit hits as soon as they want to enter or transit via the EU. It's like all EU countries, you can stay as long as a country wants you with the relevant papers but as a tourist you only get 90 days or longer with a Visa depending on the country.


 
Posted : 22/01/2024 1:46 pm

6 DAYS LEFT
We are currently at 95% of our target!