[Closed] Starting over: How to build a better cyclist from the ground up/blank sheet

The thing that revolutionised by fitness and therefore my enjoyment of cycling was...running. Sorry.

Lost loads of weight, improved my core and fitness went through the roof. Plus, it’s the most time efficient form of exercise IMO.

OP I would get a coach, or follow an accepted holistic training program. No one can know what's best for you from your info so far.

I can't accept that the best training for one for of exercise is...a different form of exercise, sorry!

First thing is first. Just ride your bike. Don’t get too into training programmes and stuff. Just get into the routine of getting out on your bike and enjoying it. Doesn’t have to be far or fast. Just work out a few routes and ride them. Do it for the enjoyment first and the rest will fall into place.

I have no idea but to clarify is your better endurance? You say big miles what are you definition of big 100miles a day 200 miles a day? Single day multiple days. Just trying to get if you mean some proper endurance (10hr min maybe multiple day) style or a fast but full day (6hr or so) ride.

Get a HRM and work out your HR zones. Then do long rides staying in Z2, these aren't necessarily slow but they are sustainable. Combine those with a ride like a blast with the lads to keep the top end happy.

Then once you've a good general fitness you can look at spicing things up should you need to.

Plenty of cycling specific core exercises available but more generally consider something like Pilates - a mate who had back spasms that seriously affected his riding did a year of Pilates and it sorted it out.

I’m not really that fit. I have terrible posture. I’m stiff. I work at a desk all day long. My core is not that core to any activity that I do

I’m very cycling fit but identify with this.

So like lunge I am going to say add in running and a core workout. I am in month 3 of an abs specific programme. No six pack yet but posture is better and I feel I can transmit more power to the bike. Running has been a real game changer. Within 2 months I’d taken 5 minutes off my Alpe du Zwift with little extra cycling training.

The thing that revolutionised by fitness and therefore my enjoyment of cycling was…running. Sorry.

Best race i ever had was after three months of good running. It really does work.
Someone above was saying that doing something different to cycling wont help cycling, he's right to a point, don't just do running or you will have all the fitness, totally inappropriate muscle memory and no skills, but definitely add some in

Yoga and or Pillates?

Ebike

From an ex (for now) pretty decent road racer: Little & often. < Fuel for this properly.

longer answer...

If you're getting into intervals:
- Never beat yourself up over numbers (eg if you have a HRM or power meter). Far better for you to be pushing pedals hard but under-power (on an 'interval' day) than think 'oh shit I can't hold 300w therefore I give up today'. Numbers don't matter. The medium-long term results of you being in a (eg) power zone, is what matters.
- Recovery and endurance is insanely important or you don't go anywhere you just do 'hard rides' with zero progression.

&

Yoga and or Pillates?

This.

&

A good week could be something like this: 1h z2, 1h z2, 1h intervals, 1h z1-z1.5, 2-4h endurance outside. Some weeks have two 'interval' sessions, spaced apart with a rest day or back to back. There's benefits to either. Notice more than 50% of the week ride duration is zone 2 riding. Little and often is your friend for so many reasons.

The little and often thing worked for me last year. I normally just ride for fun with no structure. I'd go out for the amount of time available and ride as hard as I could based depending on how my body felt (all over 2 hour rides, anything less and I'd not think were worth bothering with).

But last year I started riding shorter rides (about an hour) and mixing the efforts up. Some rides super easy with kids, some in big gears with a low cadence, some with small gears with a high cadence, some hill reps etc.
I still did longer rides of 4+ hours but only a couple a month.

I definitely got a speed boost doing this.

Also have days off with just a walk or swim or a gentle short cycle.

Don't forget to eat plenty. Food needs to be good quality and nutritious, try to stay off the booze and junk food. Sleep helps too. Even the odd cheeky 20 min lunch nap.

I pretty much followed this plan.

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/fitness/training/cycling-training-plans-153049/amp

As well as having the odd gym session, nothing major. A simple routine of 4-5 exercises with 5 sets of 5 reps. Chest press, squat, pull downs, military press, rows. Rowing is great for a warm up. I'd do 2000m and aim to do it in around 8 minutes.

Tell me I'm not the only one that had Steve Austin flash into their mind when they read the thread title?

The thing that revolutionised by fitness and therefore my enjoyment of cycling was…running. Sorry.

Gotta agree with this. I loathe running, but as my kid got bigger, I started finding it impossible to keep up with her playing in the park - it would take me several days of hobbling about in pain every time I ran around for 15 minutes. I gradually built up to running 4 km each way to work and home a couple of times a week. I started by riding to work, then running home, then walking to work the next day and cycling home. It took several months before my legs could handle running both ways in one day, but the results were dramatic. My Strava climbing times on the bike improved. I still hate running, but it does work.

The single most important thing is consistency.

Figure out how much time you can train every week and start by getting on your bike and doing consistent rides every time you have a ride scheduled. Add in intervals and specific workouts later, but start with riding regularly.

Just ride your bike. Don’t get too into training programmes and stuff. Just get into the routine of getting out on your bike and enjoying it.

This is what I'm struggling with at the minute. I've been riding a bike since before I can remember and it's been the biggest part of my life ever since.

Now I've forgotten how to just grab my bike and go for a ride. I feel like I hate it and I always talk myself out of it. Really struggling to get started again.

I posted this on the training thread:

Just about the best thing you can bring to any training is consistency, I’ve seen this list (in order):

1. Volume
2. Consistency
3. Nutrition
4. Recovery (sleep and rest days and recovery weeks)
5. Training distribution
6. Overall training philosophy
7. Exact interval prescription

So basically: Do enough; do it consistently; eat well; sleep well. The final three are mostly adjusting things to be more efficient in improving (or working on weak areas).

If your not cycling to earn you money then a more general approach to health and fitness is probably going to better. don't get to focused on the cycling specific aspects.

Maybe see about getting a coach or following a program neither need to be cycling specific. Pick which ever you know will encourage consistency.

Interestingly there appears (to me at least) to be an assumption in most of the responses so far that the op is talking about road cycling.
For mountain biking my suggestions would be,
Get out and ride your bike. Being out three times a week will give at least good base fitness and you will presumably be enjoying yourself.
Take up pilates / yoga to sort out the lack of flexibility & core strength. Even after doing yoga for a fairly short time I found it to be an absolute revelation.
If you really want to go down the training route then you could do worse than looking at something like the MTB Fitness programme. When allowed again, a trainer to focus on diet and bike specific stuff would likely also be beneficial.

To expand on my suggestion of running, I firmly believe you're a better cyclist when you're fitter. You enjoy the climbs more, you're able to manage the downhills more as you#re not knackered, and you can ride further too. Running is IMO one of the quickest ways to get that fitness.
Yes, you should also ride your bike, be that road or MTB as you don't want to lose those skills or those muscles, but the fitness will give you the biggest win.

Basically what @whitestone said. He’s hit the nail on the head and I agree with all those points.

Regarding posture, I'm a desk jockey as well and when I originally started working from home, I was using a laptop on the dining table or kitchen worktop. My posture was terrible and my upper back/shoulders/neck were very stiff, clicked a lot, range of motion was limited then I started getting trapped nerves.
So I bought a standing desk and now work the entire day standing up and my posture has improved dramatically. I also do push ups and planks to help with my core.

There's not a lot of evidence that poor posture is a bad thing. It seems to have become a thing in itself, out of proportion with the evidence..

https://www.painscience.com/articles/posture.php

Bad posture in my opinion is the symptom of other things like muscle imbalance and muscle tightness rather that a condition in its own right. So if you sort out your muscle imbalance and loosen off your tight muscles then your posture should improve.

Only cycling for exercise causes muscle imbalances imo.

There’s not a lot of evidence that poor posture is a bad thing. It seems to have become a thing in itself, out of proportion with the evidence..

Marginal gains...😉

I agree with the running thing, especially hill running - "you don't say...!!" But a very simple message from a friend who was serious about his training for races was "You want to get faster and stronger? Ride uphill (or run)". Hill running translated into awesome bike fitness for me a few years back (relative to my personal fitness levels). I was also doing Pilates for core and flexibility (I don't get on with gyms or weighted workouts - borrrrring).

Running is IMO one of the quickest ways to get that fitness

A mate of mine transformed himself and his cycling last year by starting running. Rides a a couple of times a week, runs 2-3 times a week, does bodyweight workouts and stretching every other day.

You could also try following one of the Sufferfest's training plans - they've got enough videos (+no video workouts) to actually set up a decent plan. And there's nothing like following a plan to hit one of @whitestone 's top 3 points: consistency.

1) Be disciplined
2) Get a coach

2) is your answer, but won't work without 1)

Singlespeed. I imagine it to be a bit like running in terms of effort, but its also intervals (flats and downs) and you get to see more/go further.

After a year on a new bike I'm now completely sold on rigid singlespeed, no need for energy sapping suspension if you are keeping the gnar in check (as we should be this year)

What kind of riding OP?
How much do you ride at the moment?
Do you enjoy following plans and numbers or not so much?

IMO doing too much turbo-ing (instead of MTBing) risks exacerabting core issues.
And it's probably a case of more/same riding AND more strength work, not one or the other.

And on the subject of running - I've taken it up in the last two years and I'm not sure it's had much effect on my riding, perhaps it's even adversely affected it sometimes. But then I'm substituting it for road rides rather than it being an add-on.

Now I’ve forgotten how to just grab my bike and go for a ride. I feel like I hate it and I always talk myself out of it. Really struggling to get started again.

This was key for me, I 'rebuilt' myself last year after lower back surgery. Little and often was key, easy rides on the road bike. To make this happen I needed a bike with mudguards (they're not the slow, flappy, rubby monstrosities you might imagine) and all the correct clothing. You probably own most of the layers you need, but having everything from a good lightweight waterproof (I'd say Gore-tex Shakedry but the ****ing cat keeps clawing at it so it's away getting repaired again...) down to an 'old faithful' merino baselayer.

Overshoes and merino socks complete the outfit and even easy, rainy day rides can become a pleasure. I've tried 'easy' rides indoors and beyond a point they're just awful. I keep indoors for harder workouts now.

I agree posture shouldn't be something you force, it should be the result of stretching and strengthening the right bits. I have a lot of low back issues but generally am working towards strengthening lower abs (transverse addominus) and glutes and hamstrings, this will take some load off the low back muscles which are cranky and spasm-y through overuse.

Im in a similar boat to you, 37, tight muscles and aches, and a lack of fitness which makes things feel like a struggle so puts me off riding.

I ride both MTB and Road, and recently bought a turbo trainer for when i cant get out for an actual ride.

I'm an avid gym goer so when they shut my fitness routine literally stops dead.
Loads of mates have tried to get me into running, but i just don't enjoy it, and life's too short for things you don't enjoy, plus i have an ongoing knee issue which is made worse by running.

The turbo has completely turned things around for me, i'm lucky that i have space to set it up permanently so i can just jump on it if i get a spare half hour or in an evening when the wife is at work and little one is asleep i can get a good 1-2hr training ride in sometimes longer - coupled with an actual ride of at least once a week.
Only been using it for a few weeks but already seeing/feeling the benefits.

The thing that revolutionised by fitness and therefore my enjoyment of cycling was…running. Sorry.

I tried to get back into running a few years ago. At school I'd always been very good at endurance running (but utterly useless in a sprint!). Once I was into cycling though, most other exercise dropped off although for a long time I was swimming once a week.

Anyway, I went to the local gym in order to get back into running (on a treadmill) gently, be able to accurately monitor distance and pace and because it's quite hilly where I live and I wanted to ease back into things.

While I quickly regained running fitness, it had a massively detrimental effect on my cycling. I was doing a lot of Track at the time including a bit of racing and I went from being mid-Group A level to barely hanging on at the back of the B group. It was a terrifying drop in form. Stopped running and within a few weeks I was back up in Group A again.

While I quickly regained running fitness, it had a massively detrimental effect on my cycling. I was doing a lot of Track at the time including a bit of racing and I went from being mid-Group A level to barely hanging on at the back of the B group. It was a terrifying drop in form. Stopped running and within a few weeks I was back up in Group A again.

How did it manifest on the bike, may I ask?

I think I lack a bit of grunt for sustained climbs and just fatigue more easily.

Weirdly, the other day it took me three hours (of a five-hour ride) to feel warmed up and then I got that zippy feeling back. The opposite of how I'd have expected a sub-zero ride to feel.

How did it manifest on the bike, may I ask?

@chakaping - it completely removed my ability to change pace. I could sit and plod but in track and crit racing where there are constant tiny accelerations, easing off, back on the gas etc, I suddenly lost all of that.

@crazy-legs OK, I think I can identify with that too - in the context of finding it harder to step up the effort for a steeper section of climb or suddenly do a hard effort on the flat for a couple of minutes.

I wonder if my habit of running at the same constant effort all the time is the culprit, rather than just running. Perhaps I should vary my pace a bit, even do intervals.

The fatigue may just be a bit of low-level soreness riding the day after a run. Or changing to exercising more, but with fewer big rides since Covid. I dunno.

Some great replies and insight there. Thank you.

To give some greater clarity:

*I am a big inner city dweller, so my riding in terms of ease/frequency is: Turbo, road and sadly MTB last
*I am happy to follow a plan and delve into numbers - I just want to see results
*My fear is overdoing it with a plan, so a coach could be good - but I fear a bit pricey
*As regards the posture - I am vain. I want to be buff and present well, but also I know I need to address the underlying issues to head off problems before they become problems
*Diet is dialled 😉
*I suspect rightly/wrongly that some concentrated strength work would rapidly pay dividends and lead to faster/greater body recomposition than just riding more (see point above about vanity)

In this instance better means able to go faster for longer. I have some 150 mile in a oner road days planned, and I don't want to suffer more than necessary on those rides. No multi-day plans. And when I do get back on the MTB, I want to be fit enough to be able to do things like Glentress black without being ruined.

When choosing a plan don't try and fill every day, you need recovery days. TrainerRoad have low, mid and high volume plans, 3, 5 & 6 days respectfully, most people are best served with the Low volume plan and add things as and when. Better than starting on Mid or High then having to skip workouts.

Doing a low volume plan lets you do long endurance rides at the weekend which will be specific training for your 150 miler.

Results: be prepared for the long haul.

Again you just have to be disciplined.

The thing that really helped me with riding regularly and getting better at long distances was discovering audax riding.

https://audax.uk/

Chip as chips, some great routes, supportive riders with an absence of sportive type competitiveness and there is always a new challenge available.

When I started 100km was a challenge but soon moved to 200km and have done numerous 300km and a couple of longer rides. There is always a new challenge whether stepping up in distance, completing a series of events or riding a 200km every month for a year.

Rides are suspended at the moment but will hopefully start again in a few months

If you already have a sufferfest subscription then their yoga and strength vids are pretty good. There are a few plans you can follow alongside your other riding plan, or I think you can build a full cycling/strength plan with them.

Most of the yoga vids are 15 mins so are very easy to fit in to the day. The strength ones vary from 20-40 mins as you progress through the difficulties.