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LU is going to formally introduce standing only on certain escalators in order to reduce congestion. It sounds mad!
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It sounds logical, if they can get 2 people per step on an escalator instead of one on the L and one per 3 or 4 steps climbing.
Go slower to travel faster? I could probably do a model to prove it but I'm not that bored 😉
If it stops people barging past it may be more pleasant, also a fully loaded elevator will carry more people than one where people feel the need to cower on the left. Also if they are just pushing congestion further up towards barriers it may be better to moderate the flow and give people more chance to learn the exits.
Flow and all that is a funny thing.
This is the problem, people not knowing that you stand on the RIGHT not the left. Gerroutathway you two!
S'boot time. Two per step during rush hours, logical, finally.
Although to be correct people don't travel faster on the escalator they clear the congestion in the area at the foot of the escalator quicker. It's still only going to make stations operable in the early-mid 20s until the next batch of station capacity enhancements are completed.
Makes sense - get more people through the station faster so the average journey is quicker, rather than the individual journey, for the commuters.
They have missed a HOACHIN' obvious point however: it would be even quicker if everybody walked on the escalator.
How about a queue for those who know what their legs are for and aren't allergic to exercise, and a queue for sedentary types who think that walking more than 50 metres is a breach of their human rights ?
They have missed a HOACHIN' obvious point however: it would be even quicker if everybody walked on the escalator.
Possibly but if all you do is move congestion to the top/barriers the overall speed won't be increased.
More barriers ! Hell, if rumors about the obesity epidemic about to wipe us out are true, they will need to widen them anyway...
(sorry I am sounding very fattist this morning, but I can't abide lazy folk who want carried everywhere - I would take the stairs if they would let you)
Old news...and proven
Seems a bit silly to me. The current system is two tiered. If you want to stand then there's the slow side, if you are in a rush or simply want to walk there's the fast lane. All standing brings the average up but makes it quicker for those not in a rush and slower for those that are. I suppose we're only talking a minute or so, though, so not a big deal.
And, one final point, this all just confirms to the intractable sedentary types that their way is right. It isn't. Elevators and escalators are for people who have mobility issues, not laziness issues.
And, one final point, this all just confirms to the intractable sedentary types that their way is right. It isn't. Elevators and escalators are for people who have mobility issues, not laziness issues.
You've never been on the Underground have you? Or worked in a tall building?
They have missed a HOACHIN' obvious point however: it would be even quicker if everybody walked on the escalator.
Actually it's not, you couldn't be more wrong. This isn't about people walking up the escalator quickly, it's about clearing the congestion in the areas leading to the foot of the escalator so making the stations safer to operate. The escalators carry a greater number of passengers when no one walks but just stands, and us means that overall everyone gets out of the station quicker.
This'll almost certainly be rolled out at other stations on he network in the next year or so. I can think of 3 or 4 where it would make sense, otherwise they'll risk non stopping trains at busy stations because they can't clear the platforms and lower circulating areas.
This is technically the rule in Hong Kong. It is widely ignored.
They have missed a HOACHIN' obvious point however: it would be even quicker if everybody walked on the escalator.
That's not the answer, what is needed is to increase the speed of the escalators
Don't live in Londonium village being another way of helping.... 😉
That's not the answer, what is needed is to increase the speed of the escalators
Only if. You can clear the top. You don't get anywhere faster by driving quicker into the traffic jam
I thought escalators had signs telling you too only stand one person to a step (or is that only shop ones) and even if not a lot of people won't share anyway so can't see it working.
is the post headline bad science?
not quicker for all people?
ok overall more volume in a given time but is the same as quicker?
aP can you show me the data that proves that ? If there was adequate capacity at the top for getting people out of the station, it sounds more and more like that is the problem.... not the walking.
I don't live in London but visit often for work and get herded through the tube stations. I have given up asking where the stairs are, but sometimes you get lucky and escalators are broken so they open up the stairways.
Actually it is, you couldn't be more wrong. Have you read the reasoning? Its because the majority [i]want[/i] to stand so currently they are limited to a single lane and cause congestion. As Mike says speeding things up might move the problem but all walking would be quicker on the escalator itselfActually it's not, you couldn't be more wrong
I think that excerpts of the outputs from the Legion modelling from the original trial were shown in some of the reporting last year. I can ask, won't be untill next week though.
I think you'll find that I am I'm afraid.
I don't do Legion modelling but I work with those who do and we use their work to inform ours.
This isn't about the speed of people actually on the escalator, but about having higher numbers of people per second stepping onto, and stepping off the escalator therefore giving a higher capacity for that escalator. This reduces the congestion at the foot of the escalator, and therefore helps to make the station operable during peak demand periods.
They have missed a HOACHIN' obvious point however: it would be even quicker if everybody walked on the escalator.
Only if everyone walked in lock-step such that there was a person on every step at all times. Otherwise there is a trade-off between reduced density of people and increased speed of individuals.
I don't do Legion modelling
Back of an envelope would suffice, shurely? 🙂
hels - MemberThey have missed a HOACHIN' obvious point however: it would be even quicker if everybody walked on the escalator.
well, no.
consider that there are in essence 2 lanes on each escalator, one traditionally used by 'standers', and one for 'walkers'.
if studies show (and they do, it seems) that capacity is increased by getting everyone to stand in both lanes (and so bunch up closer). Then the opposite must be true; overall capacity would be reduced if both 'lanes' were used to walk - there'd be bigger gaps between each person - in both lanes.
it's the walking lane that reduces capacity.
Back of an envelope would suffice, shurely
I'll come back with the 3d version with people walking and all that if I can be arsed. Sometimes you do need pics to explain this sort of thing (and lots of numbers)
sorry I am sounding very fattist this morning, but I can't abide lazy folk who want carried everywhere - I would take the stairs if they would let you
Oh, the irony.
Surely if you are so fit, thin and active then you wont be on the tube in the first place...you know you could be walking, running or cycling around London?
Flow and all that is a funny thing.
It is indeed.
Worked with a bloke that was a hydrologist in civil engineering,he ended up working on flow models for big internal building layouts.
Rivers of people.
You don't get anywhere faster by driving quicker into the traffic jam
Can you send that memo to just about everyone that i share the roads with in the south east?
This is crowd control at a Japanese gamer conference.
"All stand really close together now"
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is this like the public transport equivalent of the merging two lanes into one argument?
One of my modules at Uni was Queue Theory... Of all da shite I learnt there that's one of the things I can still (almost) remember..
I would love to cycle around London but sadly not sure my work would appreciate the bike on the plane or turning up to meetings with sweat stains on my suit, although I may try it - we do have a Sustainable Travel policy !
[i]not sure my work would appreciate the bike on the plane [/i]
would it not take off?
Littles Law anyone? (I had occasion to understand queuing theory as part of my IT skillset)
M25 works better with variable speed limits.
More haste = less speed, etc...
One thing that I don't get is the way my partner's kids spend tons of time checking bus and train arrival times and faffing around so they can leave the house and catch the thing with < 30 secs to spare. If they just left 2 minutes earlier, they'd save time and stress less and miss it less often.
I'll come back with the 3d version with people walking and all that if I can be arsed. Sometimes you do need pics to explain this sort of thing (and lots of numbers)
Well, at a rough guess, if walkers occupy every other step, whereas standers occupy every step, then for the walking option to be as efficient the walkers would need to walk at the speed of the escalator (i.e. their speed relative to a fixed point is twice the speed of the escalator). Agree?
What about going down? In my experience the quickest way down the Holborn escalator is to slide the bannister from top to bottom. How many people per hour would that equate to?
vintagewino earlier;
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hardly - I was a pro! shoes off for maximum slideage when you get to the bottom!
Rivers of people.
Well that escalated quickly.
IGMC
This article broadly explains it: [url= http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jan/16/the-tube-at-a-standstill-why-tfl-stopped-people-walking-up-the-escalators ][i]the[/i] [b]Graun[/b][/url]
Surely if you are so fit, thin and active then you wont be on the tube in the first place...you know you could be walking, running or cycling around London?
and breathing in all that poor air and maybe shortening your life...
Law of unintended consequences....less walking (from standing on escalator) may result in less exercise...results in further obesity...people get so large then only one person step anyway... 😀