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We are not sure if our parent's house is in joint names.
My mum wouldn't know and my step dad certainly wouldn't tell us.
It's come to light that he has a large amount of money in his account and my mum not much.
He used to take both their pensions out in cash and we assume stick it in his bank. (Whether you can still draw a pension cash we don't know.)
My mum is likely to outlive him and we are worried that he might leave the house to his kids rather than my mum ( who is currently in a home) .
Would my mum automatically inherit even if he left it to someone in a will?
We just want to be sure that mum's care will be funded if he dies.
Wow! He sounds nice.
Suggest you find out who owns the house pretty quick. Can your mum not ask to see the deeds? Assuming they are mortgage free?
Seek legal advice.
You can do a land registry search to find out who owns property. There's a fee, but it's not much
Would my mum automatically inherit even if he left it to someone in a will?
Not necessarily
Seek legal advice.
This
She won't if there is a will saying she won't.
She might have a right to stay but I really don't know for certain. Definitely worth confirming.
There wouldn't be any automatic entitlement unless no new will(s) had been made after their marriage. If hubby has made a will* leaving everything to his kids, that would have to be contested in court on the basis of your monthers financial dependency. All assuming based in England. IANAL but currently dealing with complicated estate which might be contested.
*You don't have any right to see the will untill probate is granted & it is in the public domain, you'd then have 6 months to contest it.
NO will she would get the house. A will can write her out but can be challenged.
Legal advice needed - I guess your suspicion is he leaves it to the kids so its not used up for care home fees.
If he writes his will well and does not leave it to your mum there may be little you can do
Need to get copy deeds and find out ownership. If both on deeds, need to clarify too are they joint tenants or tenants in common on the deeds..... this has bearing on inheritance
https://www.pettyson.co.uk/about-us/our-blog/814-joint-tenants-vs-tenants-in-common
Can individual shares be left to anyone in a will?
Joint Tenants: No, in the event of your death, your share will be automatically passed to the other owner (or owners).
Tenants in Common: Yes
IAAL
Depends how they hold the property. If they hold it as joint tenants then it will automatically pass to the survivor on death OUTSIDE of the estate. Will means dick.
If they hold as tenants in common then his share passes into his estate to be distributed along with the rest of his worldly possessions.
You can tell from the register (£3 from the Land Registry) whether or not it is tenants in common by seeing if a Form A restriction (google it) is present in the proprietorship register (section B of the title register). If yes, then tenants in common.
NO will she would get the house. A will can write her out but can be challenged.
I think that's the case in Scotland, but not in England
Just as an addendum to my post. The severing of a joint tenancy is very common in later years estate planning to limit inheritance tax liability. So, just because they hold it as joint tenants now (if indeed, they do), does not mean that it is set in stone.
This was my grandfather's situation - sort of.....
My grandmother died first and the house they lived in had been passed down to her from her parents. Her will had been written when she was in her 40s (she died at 60) and clearly she didn't trust him not to marry someone else super fast and her kids miss out on any inheritance. So when the will was read out it was revealed that the house was to pass directly to my dad and his sister but their dad was to be given a right to live in the house for a nominal rent of £1 a year whilst he remained unmarried but if he did marry again he was to leave the property immediately.
Caused quite the rumpus. Fortunately he was a grumpy sod no one would have touched with a bargepole, and didn't outlast her by more than a handful of years.
Any old will prior to their marriage is automatically invalid. If he's left all his estate to his own children (or anyone else) then you can try to challenge and may or may not be successful.
If they are in Scotland, the wife would have automatic entitlement to 1/3rd of wealth *excluding* property, but there are no such fixed rights in England (and excluding property means this entitlement has limited value in many circumstances anyway).
All very useful information.
Have looked on the register and they are both named, so I'm assuming that's good.
It’s come to light that he has a large amount of money in his account and my mum not much.
I'm not sure you can even hide assets in a marriage - what's his is hers and vice versa.
Pensions are paid directly into bank accounts now. My parents were forced into this - it robbed them of a reason to leave the house to go to the Post Office and draw their pension.
The house is a different matter depending on how ownership is set up.
Time for a call to a solicitor.
Hmmm. My dad died last year and his wife had her new partner move in to their house pretty sharpish. I'm also keen to establish what my dad's will says - which I've not seen so far.
Families eh? Who'd have 'em.
Are you not keen enough to have spent 10 seconds googling?
"how to find out what a will says"
Have looked on the register and they are both named, so I’m assuming that’s good.
It's a start. But as others have said, get some proper legal advice. Mostly because this can turn out to be a confusing mess and having someone who knows what should be done before and after anything happens will be invaluable.
TBH, if FIL passes first, the council will be wanting a charge against the property to cover your mother's share of care costs, so he won't have a choice, and of course any residual cash (would need solicitor). He may have been holding the cash to reduce the personal liability for care costs as savings are taken into account. As the other partner is living in the house, this is discounted until that person passes.
My mum is likely to outlive him and we are worried that he might leave the house to his kids rather than my mum ( who is currently in a home) .
Probably on another forum his kids are asking the same question.
Only thing relevant is who owns the house. If it’s joint and doesn’t change surviving parent will inherit unless will specifically states otherwise. The position on who has a charge can be checked on land registry.
How much he has in his bank account isn’t relevant except that would form part of the estate on his death.
It's a mess. My grandad was living in rented accommodation (flat with an on-site warden) and had got 'married' again not too long before he died. New 'wife' got any inheritance, and his 3 children didn't see a penny.
My FIL/MIL were in a similar situation to OP, although MIL not in a home at the time, but was receiving care. Both joint ownership of the house, but any additional savings were in his name, this maximised the care assistance they could claim - i.e. more state assistance. FIL then passed and everything went to MIL, who some years later then when into a Nursing Home, and the Council then had a charge against the home.
Without the 'other complications, OP's case sounds not dissimilar. Savings sit with the person not needing Social Services/care support, so the person needing the support gets this without additional charges. So the nursing care will be paid for by the LA, as they can't put a charge on a house when the partner/dependant lives in it. The house will pass to mum, but the 'savings' should also, but, the will may have a significant bearing here, especially if it all get's given to his side. Definitely a solicitor. Tread carefully if he is an awkward bugger though.
What does the land registry say about ownership? You can download the entry for a few quid.
Get some legal advice, a lot of places will give some preliminary advice very cheaply.
We just want to be sure that mum’s care will be funded if he dies.
No-one's addressed this bit yet, as far as I can see.
As I understand it - I am not a lawyer - any means assessment for care is done against the individual. If they can afford it, there may be a 'top up' required on top of what the state pays for. This impacts where care may be provided - ie you might want to pay extra for somewhere nicer - but not if it will be provided. The same is broadly true of funerals, costs come down to the deceased's estate and not to their family. Source: my dad going mad and eventually checking out a decade ago. I expected to get rinsed but as it turned they couldn't touch family finances because my mum had the common sense to keep everything separate (even before he went doolally my dad couldn't be trusted with a book of Green Shield stamps).
How things like joint bank accounts, house deeds, mortgages etc affect all of this, I do not know. In that situation I'd be paying for legal advice before it's too late. Understand though, his will is his will and there's likely little you can do about that ahead of time short of appealing to his better nature, assuming he has one.
The response that @noone gave regarding the ownership of the house is correct. Search here https://www.gov.uk/search-property-information-land-registry
The cost of care is a much bigger picture and will really need some individual advice.
There are two assessments - A Care Needs assessment that needs to be done first and should be blind to financial questions, followed by a financial assessment that decides who pays.
In England - Broadly speaking if a person has assessable assets of less that £14,500 then your Local Authority will meet the entire cost of care. They have to offer you one place and it might not be that nice (the family can opt to top up the LA's contribution and choose somewhere different).
Between £14,500 and £23,250 there is a sliding scale where the LA pays less and the person in need of care pays more.
Once you get to £23,250 in assessable assets then you are on your own as you are judged to be able to pay for your own care.
Assessable assets -
Money in the bank or building society
ISAs
National Savings and Investments incl Premium bonds
Stocks and shares
The family home in certain conditions - This is disregarded if the person receiving care, their spouse or a dependent relative aged under 16 or over 60 is still residing in the property.
Certain investments - Insurance based investment bonds - fall outside the scope of the assessment.
As others have said it is a minefield. But it is one that to a large extent fills my days so if you need some advice on a one to one basis just message me.
Hope that helps.
Nick.
Lawyer and contest. I'd also query the pensions/cash situation (sounds like controlling behaviour) but it may be nothing.
My wife got £100 when her mum passed mums new man got everything else and has now pissed it up a wall.
All my father's parents stuff went to his older brother, it wasn't much just photos and war medals. When he died his new wife took all that and cut ties, even though my parents were traveling 200mile round trips to visit her in a hospice. They arrived one day and the nuns said that they were no longer welcome.
People can be dicks, you need to sort it or be prepared for the worst.
So much bad advice in most of the first few posts on this thread. All that bollocks about wills and lawyers is irrelevant until you've done what this poster excellently states:
Need to get copy deeds and find out ownership. If both on deeds, need to clarify too are they joint tenants or tenants in common on the deeds….. this has bearing on inheritance
https://www.pettyson.co.uk/about-us/our-blog/814-joint-tenants-vs-tenants-in-common
Can individual shares be left to anyone in a will?
Joint Tenants: No, in the event of your death, your share will be automatically passed to the other owner (or owners).
Tenants in Common: Yes
Have looked on the register and they are both named, so I’m assuming that’s good.
Yes, but is it joint or common?