[Closed] SPOTY

Winning the Giro d’Italia not enough then?

See to me this is a far bigger achievement than what any of the other guys have done on the list and the best achievement of any UK sportsman this year, yet he doesn't even make the shortlist

Team of the year...liverpool will obviously win, but I reckon the Scottish national team are more worthy!!

Anyone with more cricket knowledge than me tell me why Broad is on the list and not Anderson? Didn’t Anderson become the leading all time wicket taker for england this year?

Anderson has been the leading (English) wicket taker for some time now. Broad took his 500 wicket this year and is now 7th on the all time list with 514 wickets.

Anderson is 4th (highest placed non spin bowler) with 600. Botham is the next Englishman on the list at 18 with 383.

Tax dodgers boil my piss at the best of times

Assume you never use Amazon or have a profile on FaceBook? Or anything made by Apple...

For those who say it's "sports personality" not a "sports achievement" award, well that's not how the BBC view it.

"The shortlist is decided by an independent expert panel who choose contenders based on their sporting achievement in a given year," said the BBC.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/sports-personality/55162164

Does anyone watch it, or pay attention to it  nowadays?

Assume you never use Amazon or have a profile on FaceBook? Or anything made by Apple…

I never Use Amazon, refuse to go in a Starbucks, and don't own any apple products. So yeah, my stance on tax avoidance is pretty consistent.

Based on the 6 folks nominated however, if I had to pick one on sporting achievement alone, begrudgingly I'd have to say you'd be hard pushed to not go for Hamilton.

Why do people keep getting it wrong year after year.

'Sports personality' means they are a personality, not they have a personality!

I never Use Amazon, refuse to go in a Starbucks, and don’t own any apple products. So yeah, my stance on tax avoidance is pretty consistent.

Good stuff 👍

Here's a thought, what proof do people have of LH paying or not paying tax or even how much he's has paid?

I'm assuming the people moaning about this would ever dream if watching Jimmy Carr for the same reason?

I never Use Amazon, refuse to go in a Starbucks, and don’t own any apple products. So yeah, my stance on tax avoidance is pretty consistent.

Im guessing Google too with their "head office" in Ireland when the majority of work is done elsewhere?

Here’s a thought, what proof do people have of LH paying or not paying tax or even how much he’s has paid?

The assumption is he didn't move to Monaco because it's a particularly nice place to live..also, see paradise papers for evidence of tax dodging..

I’m assuming the people moaning about this would ever dream if watching Jimmy Carr for the same reason?

If there was a thread about 'bbc comedian of the year' I'd be all over that calling out his tax dodging Credentials...not that he'd be nominated as he's not remotely funny..

I do however watch 8 out of 10 cats does countdown..But that's more for the delightful ms Riley..

Im guessing Google too with their “head office” in Ireland when the majority of work is done elsewhere?

Given ask jeeves is no longer available I am forced to use Google yes. If we are saying that me calling out Louis Hamilton for tax avoidance whilst at the same time using (for free) the world's biggest search engine is hypocritical, then unfortunately I'm guilty as charged..

His preaching about the environment the moment he sold his jet, whilst still driving around in his f1 car also grates on me.

Again, showing no knowledge of F1 whatsoever. F1 cars and their technology have led the way in car development for many decades. The thermal efficiency alone is now getting towards 50% which is bonkers, and many times better than a standard road car. The cars get about 5mpg but with average speeds of 150mph and 2/3rds of a lap at full throttle on most courses that’s simply astonishing. The improvements in efficiency in recent years have been amazing.
F1 was the first to use active suspension, traction control, monocoque chassis, energy recovery systems, effective active aero. Some of these advances are already in most road cars and most are in high performance cars and will trickle down.
F1 have the most innovative car engineers on the planet, for example the Williams team developed a energy storage system to use in their cars which basically used a big flywheel instead of a battery to store potential energy harvested from deceleration. It wasn’t used in their cars as it used too much space up when refuelling was banned but they have licensed it out to potentially use in buses and other vehicles where it might work really well.
I really could go on for thousands of words on how good F1 is for so many positive benefits.

So yes if you want to out your fingers in your ears and go “blah blah blah” and ignore the facts then yes all they are doing is driving round in circles wasting fuel. But that’s just wrong. Staying in F1 is good for the planet for LH, he’s helping drive technology which will help everyone in some way.

Edit... can't be assed conversing with you

Maybe the next evolutionary step for F1 is not have driver.

At the risk of derailing the thread into an F1 chat have a search on YouTube for Roboracer.

Given ask jeeves is no longer available I am forced to use Google yes. If we are saying that me calling out Louis Hamilton for tax avoidance whilst at the same time using (for free) the world’s biggest search engine is hypocritical, then unfortunately I’m guilty as charged..

I mean there are alternatives, but whatever. I guess when there are countless other people that do this (already mentioned jimmy carr) but LH is the persons whos name always comes up its no surprise when people mention it get accused of having an unconscious bias. Especially when its mentioned a in the same sentence as stuff like "my black life matters more than yours type of thing" by people like Orgi.

On Hamilton. He has grown up in the public eye and it took him a while. I used to have little time for him considering him a bit of a brat but his stance and words over BLM has been so well pitched and thoughtful I changed my opinion and now consider he has matured into a decent chap.

On tax avoidence - it stinks but if you disqualify him for that then you will find very few pro sports folk to support

Given ask jeeves is no longer available I am forced to use Google

plenty other search engines. I use duck duck go

“The shortlist is decided by an independent expert panel who choose contenders based on their sporting achievement in a given year,” said the BBC.

This.

I mean Gazza has a bigger personality than any on the list this year or any other but consistently fails to get nominated. Which is a shame as it's about time he went away to get another suit measured.  Hooo!

LH the best F1 driver I've seen, hope he keeps going to smash all records.

but LH is the persons whos name always comes up its no surprise when people mention it get accused of having an unconscious bias

I don't think that's fair tbh. I remember when geraint Thomas did his 12 hr zwift ride for charity and loads of folks called out his tax dodging. Likewise I bet if you find any thread on Jim Ratcliffe his tax arrangements will be brought up within 3 posts. Hamilton is the target this time round as he's one of the nominees for spoty, not for any more sinister reason.

Tbh i find folks suggesting I dislike hamilton because he's black pretty offensive.

Why do people keep getting it wrong year after year.

Ooh, I know this! Because they are idiots.

Tbh i find folks suggesting I dislike hamilton because he’s black pretty offensive.

This. Whilst i am sure there are plenty of gammons out there who do have conscious / unconscious bias towards a lot of what LH says and does because he is black, it pretty obvious that this is not what is happening here.

LH is being called into question due to living in a hax haven and having a very public dodgy relationship with tax in the past (Panama papers / plane lease) and being on the SPOTY list. So thats pretty fair game. Questioning tpbikers motives and siteing the fact he isnt questioning other famous tax dodgers when they aren't on the SPOTY list is a bit pathetic.

There was a thread on here a while back asking "What is cancel culture".

"IMO anyone who lives ion a tax haven are complete hypocrites when spouting off about equality"

Surely this is the embodiment of the term? You are suggesting that any black person who has been successful has no right to talk about the racism they have experienced.

Tbh i find folks suggesting I dislike hamilton because he’s black pretty offensive.

I never suggested it at all. I simply said he gets called out more than others (just check twitter when he wins a race) and I think for some people there is an element of an unconscious bias in it and thats why its called unconscious. So its no surprise when someone calls it out those connections are made rightly or wrongly.

You are suggesting that any black person who has been successful has no right to talk about the racism they have experienced.

Absolutely not suggesting that at all.

I would never level the accusation of hypocrisy at Raheem Stirling for example. Yet he is a successful black man who has often articulated how he has experienced racism in the past

I'm suggesting however that it's hypocritical of anyone, regardless of colour, to talk about equality in society (not specifically racism) whilst living in a tax haven. For the reason that people deliberately avoiding paying tax promotes the inequality within society they are speaking out against.

Racism is only one form of inequality. Actively speaking out about one form, whilst perpetuating another, makes you a hypocrite imo.

It's not a hard concept to understand yet some people seem determined to make this about race.

I'm assuming all the bitches bitching about tax avoidance won't be using the cycle to work scheme to fund a bike that isn't used for cycling to work.

I’m suggesting however that it’s hypocritical of anyone, regardless of colour, to talk about equality in society (not specifically racism) whilst living in a tax haven. For the reason that people deliberately avoiding paying tax promotes the inequality within society they are speaking out against.

You live in a tax haven. England is already used as a major centre for avoiding tax by many wealthy folk.
It will be worse after Brexit. I assume you won't be talking about equality until you start dealing with the problems of the country you live in.

The key inspiration, according to Michael Oswald, was Nicholas Shaxson’s best-selling Treasure Islands, which explained the way in which the formal British Empire morphed into a spider’s web of tax havens gathering financial wealth from across the world and funnelling it through to the City. As Oswald explains, this helped to re-establish London as the financial capital of Capital:

At the time of the British Empire, Britain structured its economy not around manufacturing and productive sectors, but around finance. City of London banks provided the financing for the Empire and the colonies would pay interest to the City.

As Britain’s Empire declined, City of London institutions were increasingly confronted by circumstances that limited their ability to function and make a profit. It was out of this need that various financial interests sought to fashion for themselves spaces in which they could continue to operate and profit. In order to create these spaces they used the expertise developed during empire and the territorial remnants of the Empire, such as Britain’s dependent territories, financial expertise and networks established during Empire and the knowledge of how to establish, run and benefit from an international financial system.”

Much of the expertise built up during the final decades of the formal empire was focused on ways to avoid paying taxes both in the colonies and in Britain itself. In the 1920s and 30s offshore companies and trusts were increasingly used to avoid and evade paying taxes. In the 1950s, with the emergence of the London-based Eurodollar market, international banks found themselves able to operate in a virtually unregulated financial market which the authorities – in this case the Bank of England – treated in a totally laissez-faire fashion.

As Christensen says in the interview, successive British governments have not only turned a blind eye to the British spider’s web of tax havens, they have actively supported its growth by blocking international attempts to tackle it:

Britain has consistently voted against creating a globally representative inter-governmental body to shape a framework of rules to strengthen international cooperation on tax matters. Britain has successfully resisted international pressure to take effective action against its tax havens in the Channel Islands, the Cayman Islands, the British Virgin Islands, and other British dependencies.

I have observed British officials blocking attempts to strengthen international cooperation on tax information exchange by keeping discussion on offshore trusts off the agenda. This happened as recently as 2015 when Prime Minister David Cameron pushed to have trusts excluded from information exchange processes. This is a pivotal issue since offshore trusts are key to the British tax haven secrecy model. Britain has also spent years blocking EU attempts to make progress towards a common approach to taxing multinational companies (the Common Consolidated Corporate Tax Base).”

Fast forward to the present and it seems clear, especially post-financial crisis, that Britain’s reliance on the City as the engine of growth in the UK economy is a risky development strategy. Christensen again:

The British economy is heavily reliant on external trade in services which is dominated by financial services. Any shock to the financial services sector, for example arising from being denied access to the EU Single Market, would be highly damaging to the economy.”

Which raises the inevitable question about where the British spider’s web might go post-Brexit. Many of the services previously provided from London cannot be provided without the Single Market, which will require London-based banks and law firms to establish permanent establishment with the EU-27. The British tax havens see new market possibilities in China, India, the Middle East and Sub-Saharan Africa, but this will probably involve laundering ever larger amounts of dirty money and enabling ever more tax avoidance.

You live in a tax haven

Firstly I don't live in England..

Secondly I have the same issue with anyone who goes out of their way to avoid tax, regardless of where they live. Jimmy Carr being a prime example.

Firstly I don’t live in England..

I apologise. I was not aware of that.

Jimmy Carr being a prime example.

And Gary Barlow, lets not forget that he's also a tax dodging **** but got away with it longer because he was a tory donor

...and, would you believe, Mr D Trump.

...and Hitler.

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/instant-articles/fuhrers-crimes-hitler-tax-evader.html

SPOTY to Hitler in under 3 pages? That's pretty good thread drift.

Tax dodging is probably not what I am going to hold most against Hitler....

I feel the same about Gary Barlow

Tax dodging is probably not what I am going to hold most against Hitler….

I know, vegetarians eh?!

So at risk of being called out as a racist hater once more..

Aside from any tax dodging shenanigans, one of the reasons hamilton probably doesn't ever win spoty is because people (me included) think it's 98% to do with the car, and only 4 cars max on the grid are actually capable of winning.

The f1 fans are quick to tell us we know nothing, but can someone explain how, but for a bit of bad luck, a guy who didnt score any points last year almost won today when he's given the best car.

Dont get me wrong, Hamilton is obviously a great driver, he's considered the one of the best amongst his peers and they obviously knows what they are on about. But surely the fact that Russell can perform so well in the
Mercedes kind of diminishes Hamilton's achievements (and indeed vettel's before him, and pretty much anyone who has won whilst being in the best car)

We learned nothing new about F1, the AMG Petronas Mercedes F1 team, or the car during the Sakir GP. F1 is a technology sport and whilst the odd mediocre driver can win races, only the best win championships. The best drivers end up in the best cars and teams in all levels of Mororsport.

What we did learn is George Russell is the real deal and his record in lower formula and the fact he has dragged an absolute dog of a car (Williams) into quali 2 when it clearly shouldn’t is proof enough that Mercedes investment is justified and if/when LH steps aside, they have someone ready to take over.

For me, Lewis Hamilton’s record in motorsport is one of the most incredible achievements by any Briton. He’s still at the top of his game and the country should be rightly proud of him. He deserves to win SPOTY by a country mile.

Possibly not Tyson Fury.

Go Lewis. That’s twice now. Nice one.

Given the short list he was the only winner especially as TF had said he didn’t want anyone to vote for him.

tpbiker
Full Member

So at risk of being called out as a racist hater once more..

Aside from any tax dodging shenanigans, one of the reasons hamilton probably doesn’t ever win spoty

OK so he won it this year 2020 & he won it in 2014 but he doesn't ever win it?