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No Marcus Rashford? I know he's getting a special award, but still.... is disappoint. 🙁
And no room for Jonathan Rae? Still, no one ever agrees on who should or shouldn't be on the list, or for that matter what constitutes sport.
5-1 fellas to ladies too, seems a bit off.
And no room for Jonathan Rae?
Never heard of him - I had to google who he was! 🙂
What about Jonathan Pie?
Never heard of him – I had to google who he was
He’s a physicist according to Google.
Should have been Marcus Rashford.
What no Andy Murray 😉
Shirley its a shoe in for Lewis. Broken or equalled every record in his sport and has stood strong on social issues too.
Lewis? it's not even a sport! Jonathan Pie before Jonathan Rae.
How the f is Tyson Fury in there with some of the derogatory he's made in the past?
Some examples might include...
"a woman’s best place is in the kitchen and on her back"
Claiming 'that he would hang his sister if he deemed her to be promiscuous'
Likening 'homosexuality to peadophilia'
Compared 'the existence of transgender people to the practice of bestiality, claiming sexual relations with animals would be legalised within 10 years'
to note just a few.
Should have been Marcus Rashford.
It's for sporting achievement, not charity work - and let's be honest Man Utd ain't winning anything for a long time to come! 🙂
Lewis should walk this for 3 reasons:
Record-breaking results and can win more.
His stance on BLM and actively campaigning.
F1 is one of the few sports to have managed a near-full season this year so has been in the papers and on the news.
I'd put Jordan Henderson as second favourite though as Liverpool fans will be out in their droves.
It’s for sporting achievement, not charity work
It's Sports Personality, not Sports Successful Person.
Slim pickings this year!
Jordan Henderson??? Eh? I can perhaps give liverpool team of the year but as an individual award?
Tyson fury..great boxer, and a big personality, but he's only fought once this year
Lewis Hamilton..the best driver in a 2 horse race..hope he doesn't win as I can't stand the prick
Ronnie O'Sullivan- serial complainer but possibly deserves it by default
Stuart broad..don't follow cricket, what stand out achievement has he had this year?
Hollie Doyle- never heard of her
So after all that complaining, who would i have instead? It's a terrible programme at the best of times, so given how rubbish sport has been this year I'd have probably cancelled it.
Anyhow that's my contribution to the thread..😂
It’s Sports Personality, not Sports Successful Person.
Have you seen the list of past winners!! 🙂
tpbiker
Lewis Hamilton..the best driver in a 2 horse race..hope he doesn’t win as I can’t stand the prick
@tpbiker - Why is Lewis Hamilton a prick?
Do you even watch F1? He's been amazingly articulate on how race affects sport this year, has been fun to watch on track and quite charming on Instagram. Why is he a "prick"?
Is it because he doesn't hide his feelings well when things don't go his way? That's not a flaw, that's far more human and interesting to me that those who smooth it over to appear presentable to the media.
It would appear that Hamilton has forgiven Mercedes & Hugo Boss for using slave labour during WW2, I mean he must have, either that or he's a massive hypocrite. If he felt so strongly he wouldn't drive for Mercedes or even wear anything with Hugo Boss written on it.
Still, money over conscience eh?
http://www.snouts-in-the-trough.com/archives/27844
It’s Sports Personality, not Sports Successful Person.
That's what I always thought, so how the hell did Murray win it?
It’s Sports Personality, not Sports Successful Person.
Every. Single. Year.
Anyhow that’s my contribution to the thread..😂
It would appear that Hamilton has forgiven Mercedes & Hugo Boss for using slave labour during WW2, I mean he must have, either that or he’s a massive hypocrite. If he felt so strongly he wouldn’t drive for Mercedes or even wear anything with Hugo Boss written on it.
Still, money over conscience eh?
Are you shitting us!!!?
You could dredge up all sorts of unethical stuff about companies if you go back 80 years!
It would appear that Hamilton has forgiven Mercedes & Hugo Boss for using slave labour during WW2, I mean he must have, either that or he’s a massive hypocrite. If he felt so strongly he wouldn’t drive for Mercedes or even wear anything with Hugo Boss written on it.
Still, money over conscience eh?
How charming that you hold Lewis to different standards than anyone else who's ever worked with or driven for Mercedes, by virtue of his efforts to strive for equality. You'd be much happier if he kept his mouth shut about things that make you uncomfortable, right?
Why is Lewis Hamilton a prick?
Numerous reasons imo. I'm not interested in getting into a debate about them however..
Do you even watch F1?
Occasionally, although it's very dull. His ability in a race car is neither here not there to me however.
Why does this forum continually mess up the quote function..!!😁
IMO anyone who lives ion a tax haven are complete hypocrites when spouting off about equality. Creating change needs the richest people to step up and contribute more than words, they need to shoulder the tax burden of the society they feed off, otherwise they are just parasites.
Jordan Henderson is a better footballer than many give credit for, but is still only the 5th or 6th best player in his team, and he has no personality, but doesn't even lean into it as a joke like James Milner does.
Tyson Fury on the other hand is a complex character, I used to hate him with all his antics and hate speech. But he has begun to win me over since his breakdown and comeback, his Joe Rogan podcast was enlightening. I would begrudgingly give the award to him from that list.
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/boxing/tyson-fury-spoty-shortlist-bbc-remove-video-b1765033.html
I said on a friend's FB post that it would have been nice to see someone like Tom Pidcock nominated after the season he's had:
9th at the French Cup MTB XC at Alpe d'Huez,
4th at Transmaurienne Vanoise with 5/5 podiums including 3 stage wins
4th in the Under-23 time trial at the 2020 European Road Championships
Won the Giro Ciclistico d'Italia, including 3 stage wins
Debuted for GB at the Road World Championships in Imola
Won the U23 XC MTB World Cup at Nové Město
Won both the e-MTB World Champs and the U23 XC MTB World Champs in Leogang.
While Fury's openness around his mental health has been good to see, it was basically just one fight that's put him there.
So after all that complaining, who would i have instead?
Jasmin Paris
IMO anyone who lives ion a tax haven are complete hypocrites when spouting off about equality. Creating change needs the richest people to step up and contribute more than words, they need to shoulder the tax burden of the society they feed off, otherwise they are just parasites.
Absolutely 100% this...
IMO anyone who lives ion a tax haven are complete hypocrites when spouting off about equality. Creating change needs the richest people to step up and contribute more than words, they need to shoulder the tax burden of the society they feed off, otherwise they are just parasites.
On that subject, did you know that Lewis Hamilton is one of the UK's top 5000 tax payers, even though he lives mostly elsewhere (and pays tax there, too)? Good on him.
There are still people that think this is about personality? 🙄
On that subject, did you know that Lewis Hamilton is one of the UK’s top 5000 tax payers, even though he lives mostly elsewhere (and pays tax there, too)? Good on him
Good on him for deliberately going out his way to avoid his tax responsibilities? When it comes to tax, it's about paying your share as a percentage of what you earn, not the total amount you pay.
Good on him for deliberately going out his way to avoid his tax responsibilities? When it comes to tax, it’s about paying your share as a percentage of what you earn, not the total amount you pay.
As he doesn't live in the UK full time, nor earn all his money here, it's far from obvious why he should pay all his tax here.
Good on him for deliberately going out his way to avoid his tax responsibilities?
I know haterz gonna etc etc, but how do you reach that conclusion?
For me Jordan Henderson. Captain of a club that’s won its first premiership for 30 years and in England its a bit tougher than Germany and Italy. And the year before the European Cup.
I know haterz gonna etc etc, but how do you reach that conclusion
You really think he'd choose to live in a tax haven for any other reason?
But ignoring that fact, his name also popped up in the paradise papers..
Tax dodgers boil my piss at the best of times, but ones that then start preaching about making society a better place etc etc... hypocrits plain and simple..
You really think he’d choose to live in a tax haven for any other reason?
He lives in a "tax haven" and pays UK tax - as mentioned previously, he's in the top 5000 UK tax payers, even though he doesn't live here. Literally, what more do you want?
Let me see...if money was no object is there any other reason not to live in drizzly, dreary UK other than avoiding tax??? If money were no object would I choose Stevenage or Monaco?? Mmmm that is a tricky one.
I guess these standard then that the many people on this forum who have moved to other countries are still paying their UK taxes or are they all parasites too?
And I noticed a lack of criticism of Sean Connery in the recent RIP thread about his living in a tax haven for most of his time whilst still sticking his beak into UK politics. I guess if you have the right sort of views and politics then being a "tax evader" is OK..,.unless the draw of the exotic, beautiful Bahamas lifestyle offered other benefits to quality of life other than a favourable tax jurasdiction.
I'm no fan of LH and would quite happily partake in some personal insult throwing in his direction, but I don't think you can call him a parasite. Even if he doesn't pay UK taxes, which he wouldn't be legally obligued to do with him not living in the UK, he's made his family rich who live in the UK and pay UK taxes. He's made the F1 team and UK based employees better off and as a result pay more UK taxes. All the high value F1 based and largely UK based supply chains and manufacturers are doing well off the back of LH's success, not to mention all the LH and MB merchandise, advertisements, marketing and knock on industry that LH has generated around him. Yep, the UK tax coffers are hundreds of millions of pounds better off thanks to LH so a parasite he is not.
Anyone with more cricket knowledge than me tell me why Broad is on the list and not Anderson? Didn't Anderson become the leading all time wicket taker for england this year?
Let me see…if money was no object is there any other reason not to live in drizzly, dreary UK other than avoiding tax??? If money were no object would I choose Stevenage or Monaco?? Mmmm that is a tricky one.
A better comparison might be why live in the concrete shithole of Monaco, instead of 5 miles along the French coast?
LH has posted an interesting response to the tax issues. As he correctly states much of his earnings are in other countries and he pays tax on those also in the relevant territories. As others point out as well he pays a fair chunk in the UK also. Probably more than he 'has' to (has as in if he employed a tax specialist with a view to minimising his expenditure with HMRC) as well.
As to whether he lives in Monaco or elsewhere. What with the races themselves, his global travel outside of the calendar, spending time with the folks etc I wonder how much time he actually spends there?
More interestingly it seems Tyson Fury is not a happy bunny about being included and has demanded to be taken off the list.
How the hell did Tyson Fury get nominated? He's a complete bigot and hardly a role model for the kids.
A better comparison might be why live in the concrete shithole of Monaco, instead of 5 miles along the French coast?
Do you think he would pay more UK tax if he lived in Nice?
Jasmin Paris
Not so much this year for her. But i hope they at least do a segment in the program on all the mountain running records which have been broken this year.
Hamilton mainly pays tax in the UK because of the British Grand Prix, all the drivers do, as do golfers at the Open etc. and he is no stranger to a tax scheme.
Broad took 29 wkts at 13.4 against the WI and ****stan, Anderson took 16 at an average 25.5, so they have chosen the outstanding performance, rather career achievement (plus he hit 500 this year)
EDIT: He is also ranked number 2 in the Test Rankings
A better comparison might be why live in the concrete shithole of Monaco, instead of 5 miles along the French coast?
Yeah..odd that isn't it..🤔
I don’t take much notice of celebrity lifestyles but the last “thing” i saw of LH was a picture he posted of him and some friends about to fly off somewhere in his own or a chartered jet.
Sort of my black life matters more than yours type of thing.
Do you think he would pay more UK tax if he lived in Nice?
He'd pay more tax..i don't care where he pays it particularly..
last “thing” i saw of LH was a picture he posted of him and some friends about to fly off somewhere in his own or a chartered of my black life matters more than yours type of thing.
As he is now considered a paragon of virtue because he wins races driving one of only two cars that can win,I’ll leave it there.
haha wow, salty much.
Also why is the tax thing such an issue when it comes to Lewis?? im sure if you looked at any wealthy person a lot of them do the same, Im not saying its right im just saying there might be a reason why people choose to focus so much on this guy.
And I noticed a lack of criticism of Sean Connery in the recent RIP thread about his living in a tax haven for most of his time whilst still sticking his beak into UK politics. I guess if you have the right sort of views and politics then being a “tax evader” is OK..,.unless the draw of the exotic, beautiful Bahamas lifestyle offered other benefits to quality of life other than a favourable tax jurasdiction.
The right time and place might play a part. A thread celebrating the life of someone who has just died is not the the same as a thread literally discussing whether someone should be even more celebrated.
As for the tax thing the whole buying a plane using a company in the British Virgin Islands, who leased it out to another company in the Isle of Man is pretty active tax avoidance, rather than not paying tax in the UK because he doesn't live here that much. This was a while ago and hopefully it was the kick he needed to start paying a bit more tax.
He is a bit do as I say not as I do when it comes to green issues too.
Two steps forward one step back so some progress, but taking it back to the subject, he is almost certainly going to win SPOTY so it is worthy of discussion.
I genuinely can’t see why anyone would hate LH. Yes you might not like his dress sense or his interests but there’s no reason to hate him. Every single race interview he does he first says thanks to the fans and when he does well he always credits his team first but rarely does he blame them when things go wrong (worst thing he says is that something didn’t go right and we will have to review it).
He appears to be nice to everyone despite serious provocation in many cases. He pays a huge amount of taxes in the Uk despite not being there much. He’s set up a commission paid for by himself to encourage minorities into motorsport and engineering, he’s passionate about the ending racism despite making things really difficult for himself in doing so.
I think you need to take a long hard look at yourself when you say you “hate” him. My only conclusion is that, like it or not and you may not realise it, that you are being racist yourself.
As he is now considered a paragon of virtue because he wins races driving one of only two cars that can win, I’ll leave it there.
Have you ever wondered why perhaps he gets to drive the best car?
There are 20 other drivers who don't get to drive the best car, the other one who does consistently finishes behind LH
I don’t take much notice of celebrity lifestyles but the last “thing” i saw of LH was a picture he posted of him and some friends about to fly off somewhere in his own or a chartered jet.Sort of my black life matters more than yours type of thing.
As he is now considered a paragon of virtue because he wins races driving one of only two cars that can win,I’ll leave it there.
Next thing you’ll be saying is that “all lives matter”. So in your eyes if someone has a lot of money they can’t tell anyone what they are doing, even to anyone who might be interested?
He’s not a paragon of virtue, he’s no saint, but he’s a great role model for kids and for budding race drivers and for young black people too.
And the comment about the car he is in? You obviously don’t watch or know anything about F1, that is abundantly clear.
I think you need to take a long hard look at yourself when you say you “hate” him. My only conclusion is that, like it or not and you may not realise it, that you are being racist yourself.
BINGO!
I'm reluctant to throw the "R" word into the mix but there has been a notable lack of condemnation of Jackie Stewart, Jim Clark, Nigel Mansell, James Hunt, Jenson Button and Damon Hill on this thread from those complaining about an F1 driver not paying tax. And that's just British World Champions - there are plenty more I can mention.
Does make you wonder why Hamilton is the hill they're prepared to die on over this issue (which, since Hamilton pays a massive amount of tax to HMRC, really isn't an issue at all).
He is a bit do as I say not as I do when it comes to green issues too.
Sold the private jet and his car collection, and gone vegan. If everyone did as he does, it would help!
I'm sure LH is based in Monaco partly for tax reasons but that's not the same as he's specifically trying to avoid paying tax in the UK. If I was rich I would leave the UK in a heartbeat, **** the weather and Tories. Where I'd live though I'm not sure but if I were like LH and travelling the globe most of the year and still earning (rather than just having a retirement mansion I spent most of my time) then it would seem to make perfect sense to have a nominal base in a low tax country - why pick a country with higher taxes if you're not going to be there much anyway?
Although the elaborate scheme and various holding companies/leasebacks etc. that financed his private jet (a few years back anyway) was more iffy (although apparently fairly standard for that sort of thing).
Chris Froome lives in Monaco - just saying...
It seems the tpbiker (who has acknowledged that he doesn't watch formula 1) just really dislikes LH (for numerous reasons which he isn't going to debate here) and has latched onto the taxes thing (which he he seemingly is willing to debate on here) as a means of validating his hatred.
As someone above stated - haterz gonna hate.
I’m reluctant to throw the “R” word into the mix but there has been a notable lack of condemnation of Jackie Stewart, Jim Clark, Nigel Mansell, James Hunt, Jenson Button and Damon Hill on this thread from those complaining about an F1 driver not paying tax. And that’s just British World Champions – there are plenty more I can mention.
Does make you wonder why Hamilton is the hill they’re prepared to die on over this issue (which, since Hamilton pays a massive amount of tax to HMRC, really isn’t an issue at all).
Your wrong, how many of those are current and are nominated for this years spotty? I have previously criticised Froome, GT and many others for living in parasitic states like Monaco. As well as the British government for blocking EU action to minimise their damage. I won't doth my cap to greenwashing careers by the famous, just because they spout a few platitudes that they don't live by.
why pick a country with higher taxes if you’re not going to be there much anyway?
Because you are filthy rich and preach equality, and understand that equality in the modern world can only be achieved when people like you shoulder the fair burden paying into the system.
If you've got a limited shelf life for high earnings (as many athletes do) and most of your work is done in numerous countries around the world (which most athletes don't) then why would you pay more tax than you have to in a country in which you don't spend a lot of your time?
greenwashing careers by the famous, just because they spout a few platitudes that they don’t live by.
LH - sold his private jet, went vegan, opened a vegan restaurant chain, started an electric racing team, refused to endorse anything other than Mercedes latest electric cars and now only drives a hybrid/electric car. He pays tax to offset his carbon foot print and contributes generously to climate initiatives...If that isn't practicing what you preach, I don't know what is!
I’m sure LH is based in Monaco partly for tax reasons but that’s not the same as he’s specifically trying to avoid paying tax in the UK
Well yeah. I wouldn't be questioning his motives if he hadn't chosen to live in a tax haven
My only conclusion is that, like it or not and you may not realise it, that you are being racist yourself.
I was wondering how long it would be before some clown tried playing the race card. Absolutely pathetic..maybe jump onto the last thread we had about Geraint Thomas and you'll see I had exactly the same issue with him, rather than spouting this pish.
I’m reluctant to throw the “R” word into the mix but there has been a notable lack of condemnation of Jackie Stewart, Jim Clark, Nigel Mansell, James Hunt, Jenson Button and Damon Hill on this thread from those complaining about an F1 driver not paying tax. And that’s just British World Champions – there are plenty more I can mention.
You do realise the thread isn't about f1 drivers who pay tax yeah? It's about spoty candidates, and last time I looked none of those guys were on the list, so weren't being discussed.
but just for clarity I feel exactly the same about all the white tax dodgers as well..and if it makes you feel any better i hate Jim Ratcliffe far more than any of them...
Your wrong, how many of those are current and are nominated for this years spotty?
Ah - I didn't realise that you're only liable for tax avoidance criticism if you're a SPOTY contestant. Utter bobbins...
Because you are filthy rich and preach equality, and understand that equality in the modern world can only be achieved when people like you shoulder the fair burden paying into the system.
He does not live in the UK, yet is in the top 0.01% of UK tax payers. How much would he have to pay to make you happy?
but just for clarity I feel exactly the same about all the white tax dodgers as well..and if it makes you feel any better i hate Jim Ratcliffe far more than any of them…
Great! You must be very happy about Hamilton paying more tax than approximately 69,995,000 other UK citizens, even though he doesn't live here.
It seems the tpbiker (who has acknowledged that he doesn’t watch formula 1) just really dislikes LH (for numerous reasons which he isn’t going to debate here) and has latched onto the taxes thing (which he he seemingly is willing to debate on here) as a means of validating his hatred.
As someone above stated – haterz gonna hate.
I don't hate him, i do dislike him though. I was debating the tax thing as someone else brought it up. His preaching about the environment the moment he sold his jet, whilst still driving around in his f1 car also grates on me.
He also use to come across as a whiny, self righteous little cock bag. But admittedly that was some time ago when I actually occasionally watched f1
Tbf there are many famous sports people and celebrities I dislike equally as much, and when a thread pops up about them you can hear about that as well.. 😁
So as long as the richest people on the planet, pay more in tax in real terms rather than as a percentage of their wealth, that's ok by you? Doesn't matter how many billions you have, bung 50k in tax and jobs a good un?
When it comes to knighthoods, i get the tax thing, but this is SPOTY, which again is weird, as if it was Sports Achievement of the year then i'd have Hamilton all day long, he's broken records that looked like they'd last a lot longer, he's been at the top a long time while others have faded away and so on, but personality wise, it's the Schumacher/Federer/etc issue, great at what they do, a lot of GOATs in their sports, but boring as hell!
When it comes to knighthoods, i get the tax thing
You see that's where I have the opposite view, the Tories trying to put the breaks on a knighthood for Hamilton because of tax does stink to high heaven. They give them out like confiti to their donors who see tax evasion and avoidance as normal as pondo does, so that is demanding different standards to usual.
So as long as the richest people on the planet, pay more in tax in real terms rather than as a percentage of their wealth, that’s ok by you? Doesn’t matter how many billions you have, bung 50k in tax and jobs a good un?
How much does he pay?
They give them out like confiti to their donors who see tax evasion and avoidance as normal as pondo does, so that is demanding different standards to usual
He pays tax in countries he doesn't live in. I don't do that - do you do that?
He pays tax in countries he doesn’t live in. I don’t do that – do you do that?
He pays tax in countries he earns money in FFS, otherwise it isn't tax. When rich people tell you about how much tax they pay, it's because they earn so much money you can't conceive how much they should pay. I bet you fell for LA telling you how often he got tested for PED's as well.
but this is SPOTY, which again is weird, as if it was Sports Achievement of the year then i’d have Hamilton all day long
I thinks that the problem. It's been a weak year sporting wise (amongst other things) so LH is an absolute shoe in. Only person who might have run him close is Marcus Rashford and that wouldn't be right for spoty. We can't even do the usual and moan about people missing from the list due to the lack of anything really happening for 10 months.
So,if one is not a fanboi one is a hater.Can't you teenagers go and play with a balloon on a stick ffs.
Ah – I didn’t realise that you’re only liable for tax avoidance criticism if you’re a SPOTY contestant. Utter bobbins…
Ffs..It's a thread about spoty candidates. Why would we be discussing the merits of other people who avoid tax if they've not been nominated for the award this year
He pays tax in countries he earns money in FFS,
The very fact you have to point this out to him..😂
Yeah, it's a weird one this year, you have folk who most won't know, you can tell how bad a year it's been as the female nominee is a jockey that's not that well known, usually you have someone who has been a TV hit at a big event. Personality wise, yeah Ronnie O'Sullivan and Tyson Fury are both there, but Ronnie is an acquired taste, but has been doing record breaking stuff as well, Fury had a good win, but not much else due to Covid, Broad and cricket hasn't really been a huge year either, Henderson again is Liverpool captain in a great year, but wasn't exactly shortlisted for any big awards.
Just give it to Hamilton, he has grown over the years, a few years back he was a proper prick, but he was younger, had loads of money and fame, and had people fawning over him, he has mellowed and backed up his words now with actions, i'd also give him a knighthood well before Beckham as well ;o)
Only person who might have run him close is Marcus Rashford and that wouldn’t be right for spoty.
Done bugger all in the sports stakes really though hasn't he. If it was a prize for top bloke with a conscience then he'd be a shoe in, but it's not..
As I said at start of thread, very slim pickings this year.
**** it, I'll leave you miserable ****ers to it.
It's 2020, British people live all round the world.
As someone British who lives internationally, this isn't an alien concept and it doesn't make me, or my kids who were born abroad, any less British. I pay tax in the country I live in - that's how it works.
Still a tricky concept to some for some reason. Bless.
I pay tax in the country I live in – that’s how works
The issue is that's not how it works in Monaco is it.. which is the reason I suspect many very rich people want to move there.
Still a tricky concept to some for some reason. Bless.
Thanks for your patronising and mistaken comment hugo, however this isn't about living outside the UK, I live in Germany, this is about living in tax havens. I am sure an international jetsetter like yourself can understand the difference, even if you pretend not to.
Winning the Giro d’Italia not enough then?
I saw an interview with Toto Wolff (Lewis Hamilton's boss) the other day and he was talking about Lewis and the End Racism stance that Lewis has managed to keep going and get Mercedes to fully support, and he mentioned a chat he had with Lewis which really stopped him in his tracks.
He said that Lewis had asked him if he "had ever had the active thought that he was white?" Toto responded truthfully and said "no" he hadn't. Lewis then replied that he "thinks about being black every day".
If that isn't perhaps the most astute and simple depiction of systemic racism, the fact that someone (even someone famous, wealthy and successful) consciously and continually thinks about their skin colour and how it affects them in the world, then I don't know what is.
It was a real eye opener for me and I'm not someone who really "sees" skin colour or features - I just see people, but I've never for a moment considered my own skin colour...except after a sunburn or gravel rash.
Chris Froome lives in Monaco – just saying…
As do many pro cyclists.