[Closed] Sport watches and the need to carry a phone

I've had an Apple watch for 3 years, I've yet to fatally damage it despite not removing it for car maintenance, roofing repairs, MTBing, running, fairy serious road crashes at 50+kph, swimming, beaches, etc. Yes the first one, a 4 was scratched to buggery by the time I sold it, but that's because I didn't try to protect it at all. This one, a 6, has had a very thin screen protector on from day one and it's so far completely unscathed after 6 or so months.

I use it to track running, riding, swimming and listen to audio books, music, etc. I bluetooth connect it to my phone, headphones, etc.

All good. Cheapish too when compared to a Garmin.

Some watches let you make calls...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-Galaxy-Watch-Active2-Stainless/dp/B07WWX9JQ8

.. not as spendy as I had imagined.

https://www.samsung.com/uk/watches/galaxy-watch-active/galaxy-watch-active2-44mm-black-lte-sm-r825fskabtu/

Huawei do them too.

yeah likewise, I've had an AW3 for years, it's a little scratched/dinged but perfectly fine - haven't heard of many at all being broken although apparently my mate managed to smash the screen on his recently! They do a version with a tougher screen but it's £££
Mine can't be used independently from the phone but I'll probably upgrade to one of those when they release the new one later this year! Probably doesn't make sense unless you've also got an iPhone, but if you do they're great! Know a few people who have changed to them from Garmins, etc.

I'm not really sure what your concern is

Not quite clear on your requirements here. Do you just want a watch that will record activities without a phone present or do you need internet access for Spotify and contactless?

I have a Garmin Forerunner 45 which will do the former, just sync with phone app when back home. If I have the phone with me it will notify emails via the phone but nothing else.

I’m not really sure what your concern is

Fair enough. I may not have explained myself very well. Not a concern as such, more just trying to formulate my "wants" from such a device from the experience of others, because I haven't lived with a smart watch or even really any similar devices yet...

I am wondering whether I would lament the absence of the extra functionality to make a call or send a text, and therefore leave the phone at home, if I bought say a Garmin. I might or I might not, and am interested in others' experiences. It interests me that in my limited research this doesn't come up that often, so maybe it's a non-issue, although it does come up a bit in comments.

I think everything else I'd want is present in many of the products out there. Quite happy for music or mapping to be offline and contactless is not very important to me.

Free Train

If I could afford the 4g apple watch I'd buy that. That's as a garmin 45 user. I want the wireless spotify + ability to make emergency calls.... Both reasons for me to not have to carry a phone while running. It's definitely worth the £350 ish + £7-ish a month and I'd pay that in a heartbeat if I could. I suspect many can! No brainer for running

For cycling, carrying a phone is not exactly taxing

The future is wearables, apple will come out with glasses soon. So a watch replacing your phone for a good chunk of tasks will be the future, it's just when it's accessibly affordable.

I would say it really depends on what you want from the watch. It's been said before that Apple is a smar****ch that does activity tracking, and Garmin is a sports watch that has some smart features/apps. So do you want a smar****ch with loads of apps that you can make make calls on, or are you more interested in training metrics and analysis? That's not to say Apple is terrible at activity tracking, or Garmin is a terrible smar****ch. They are just differently optimised for want of a better way of looking at it.

I like my Garmin a lot. If I'm on my bike I will carry my phone, but it will only ever come out for calls, texts, or maybe taking a photo. Which is about once every twenty rides. I can read the texts or see who is calling on my Garmin so I can make a decision to stop and use the phone or carry on. If I'm running, I don't take the phone as I'm less concerned about being miles away from home and needing assistance. My Garmin works with wireless headphones and has music storage, so I don't need the phone for that. Whether riding or running it gives me more metrics than I know what to do with.

But I can see the appeal of a watch you can make calls on. It's not a deal breaker for me (and I don't want the extra phone contract), so it really depends on how you're going to use the watch.

Garmin linked to Garmin Connect on the phone gives you live tracking which is worth it if you're out on your own/in the wilds.

It's been pretty heavily rumoured that the next generation of garmin devices will have mobile connectivity. So if it's a deal breaker for you, it might not be too long to wait. It'll be expensive though I imagine!

I'm still none the wiser as to what your concern is...
But I'd be cautious about leaving the phone at home while you're out biking/running - how will you call for help if you needed to?

Edit: and Garmin Pay currently only works with very few banks in the UK

It’s been pretty heavily rumoured that the next generation of garmin devices will have mobile connectivity. So if it’s a deal breaker for you, it might not be too long to wait. It’ll be expensive though I imagine!

Garmin already have a version of one of their watches which has eSim capability but it's only available on the Verizon network in the US and even then doesn't have "voice" capability (only SMS).

I had similar thoughts as the OP (I think...he/she has expressed them clearly!)
If I was an Apple iPhone user, and someone else was paying my monthly phone bill, and I wasn't picky about device accuracy, Id probably buy a version of the Apple watch to enjoy the freedom of not carrying a phone around.

But as none of those conditions apply to me, I got a Garmin and still carry my Samsung (Android) phone around with me.

I'm not 100% certain, but I don't think Apple Watches play well with non-iPhones when you have to sync activities and other stuff but the real kicker for me (in Canada, home of the world's most expensive phone plans) was the outrageous cost of getting an eSim phone plan.

Additionally, someone I used to ride with a lot has an Apple Watch 3 and the GPS tracking is terrible. We'd do exactly the same ride together and her distance could be 10-15% longer than mine because the GPS signal was all over the place. Her HRM was also suspect as she seemed to spend a huge amount of time in the higher HR zones for no apparent reason (but that could be poor fit on her skinny wrist or her physiology)

Had a Garmin Fenix 3, replaced with an Apple Watch 5. Ditched that as I found it was limited for activity tracking, and didn’t actually do much useful beyond that. Replaced it with a Fenix 5 which does the activity tracking side of things much more effectively.

Additionally, someone I used to ride with a lot has an Apple Watch 3 and the GPS tracking is terrible. We’d do exactly the same ride together and her distance could be 10-15% longer than mine because the GPS signal was all over the place.

Apple watch 6 here and the GPS tracking is woeful. My run home from work clicks over 10km in more or less the same place with my Garmin every single time, give or take a few tens of metres. The apple can be showing 10k about 1km prior. Or later. Occasionally it agrees with the Garmin.

The only GPS issues my Apple Watch 4 is guilty of is smoothing off some sharp corners. It’s well documented. Other than that it’s as good as any other consumer grade gps device I’ve ever had.

it’s worth bearing in mind if it’s within range of your phone, it’ll use the GPS from that rather than its internal one. So if your phone is buried in a bag then that might explain it. There is no way to switch this off other than put your phone in airplane mode.

But I’d be cautious about leaving the phone at home while you’re out biking/running – how will you call for help if you needed to?

I don’t take a phone running, unless you’re out in the wilds you’re rarely far from from others in the UK. Personal experience of “what if you need help” is that if you try and scalp yourself on a canal bridge then walking down a busy road with bloody pouring out of your head (pics available on request) is a good way to get people to stop and offer assistance.
Most people are good and will offer help if needed.

My last 2 rides were tracked by both my Garmin Edge 1030 and my Apple Watch 6.

Garmin = 26.74km
Apple = 26.75km

Garmin = 100.26km
Apple = 100.63km

Now bear in mind that the Garmin stops tracking when stoped or below 5kph and I’d say the Apple Watch is fairly accurate.

My last 2 rides were tracked by both my Garmin Edge 1030 and my Apple Watch 6.

Were you carrying your phone and piggybacking phone GPS? Not sure this is a thing with AW but it's common with less good non apple watches.

I had similar thoughts as the OP (I think…he/she has expressed them clearly!)

I think I love you.

unless you’re out in the wilds you’re rarely far from from others in the UK.

I'm not sure about that. I often ride in the evening routes where I rarely see a soul. Farmland RoWs, bits of forest I only think worth riding because they're what I've got from the door. And then there's solo mountain biking. I'd feel pretty silly if I did need to make an emergency call and I'd left my phone at home.

I can continue to carry my phone of course, but I might kick myself if I bought a watch today and then a version of the same thing appeared in 6 months I could make an emergency call on. Then again, maybe I'd still take my phone just for the camera!

It's a bit like when a beginner comes on here asking "what bike..." I suppose. They know enough to be sure they want to buy one, but they want to work out what bike they'd choose after riding for a year or two, not what they might choose with little knowledge beyond what feels like it fits in the shop. They might have the preconceived idea that bar ends are a necessity. I know about that much about these devices.

It sounds like waiting for the next generation of Garmins might be sensible. Then if this functionality is coming that's great, if not it's Garmin plus phone or a Samsung watch or similar. That Samsung watch linked to above does look ok.

There are well-documented instances of people wearing an Apple Watch having an accident and being rendered unconscious, and the Watch detecting it, calling for help along with location details; at least one I recall was a cyclist. The device is also capable of alerting the wearer to undiagnosed health problems as well.
Not that I have a dog in this race, I wear analog watches, mostly mechanical automatics, and I have no intention of buying into the smart watch world, but those abilities are worth pointing out.

Had a Garmin Fenix 3, replaced with an Apple Watch 5. Ditched that as I found it was limited for activity tracking

Can you expand on this bit please? What features are lacking from the Apple Watch? It does GPS location with compass, barometric altimeter, heart rate, new one even does oxygen levels. What else do you need it to record? Or is it the post activity analysis side of things that you found lacking?

Apple watch 6 here and the GPS tracking is woeful

The Gadget Show recently did group test, can’t remember which exact watches they tested but the Apple one had the best accuracy.

My last 2 rides were tracked by both my Garmin Edge 1030 and my Apple Watch 6.

Garmin = 26.74km
Apple = 26.75km

Garmin = 100.26km
Apple = 100.63km

FWIW, my/her mountain biking is on the steep, densely forested slopes of the North Shore Vancouver which are pretty challenging conditions for a GPS.
However, her rides on Strava show an awful lot of spikes and times when we've stopped for a break appear to show her running around in random patterns! Her GPX is usually off the side of the actual trail by some distance as well.

It's also worth pointing out I've got an Edge 530 (mounted on the bars) and a Forerunner 945 and use both (Forerunner is a new toy so using both at the same time until the novelty wears off...) The Forerunner is typically 10% more distance recorded than the 530 but it's MUCH closer when road riding. I'm guessing it's the less than ideal placement on my wrist which is a bigger factor (which, of course, also applies to any smart watch).

Someone up there commented about Apple watches "calling" when an emergency/incident is detected which is a really useful feature. I presume they'll do that if you have an eSim and your phone plan covers this - Garmins can also do that (text rather than call) if the phone is in Bluetooth range BUT you don't need a specific phone plan.
Obviously neither will work if you don't have a phone signal...

Hadn’t realised the AW used the phone GPS. I carry the phone in a pocket when running, if I take it. If that’s the cause of the accuracy issues then it’s a pain having to remember to turn flight mode on but I’ll see if it works better like that.

I do however like the AW for trail running (and MTB by extension) using WorkOutDoors. Having the ability to upload a route to follow that’s shown on an OSM base map is handy - I know Garmins do that too but at a higher price.

My short delve into this tech didn't end well, I grabbed a Sony Smar****ch 3 four years ago when I started riding frequently for fitness, which could use the mobile for GPS or use its own GPS to give a max record time of ~5 hours.

However, as I followed the trend of not RTFM I got infruiated with how long it sometimes took to get an initial GPS lock, so I gave up on it as a "Strava device" and replaced it with a GPS computer. It turns out that the SSW3 gets a quicker lock by moving, rather than standing still!

The rumours of the SSW3 getting updated to Android Wear 2.0 never came to fruition and it largely sat in a drawer for ages, during which time I'd been forced to buy a new mobile, so when I decided to pair it to the new mobile I thought I had to reset the watch and then download apps again through Android Wear on the mobile... I then found most of my old favourite apps including Strava and Endomondo were no longer available, but I did install Ghostracer Pro and must get around to checking if it functions ok.

… I then found most of my old favourite apps including Strava and Endomondo were no longer available,

Strava should be (back?) on wear os, Endomondo is gone across the board though.

FWIW I use a casio protrek (android wear), predominantly purchased for the full mapping it offers through viewranger (and now outdoor active) it's not a great activity tracker (eg gym and swim etc) but does work well as an outdoor watch. Given your description op I'm happy to say it is not the watch you want, so there's one definitive answer at least.

It's a shame wear is a pants OS really, that said, now google own fit bit I expect you might see some very good offerings for activity tracker smart watch type things from there in the not so distant future.

Google / Fitbit released some new smar****ches recently. They dont seem to be wearOS.

https://www.fitbit.com/global/uk/products?utm_source=go_st&utm_medium=store&utm_campaign=en_UK_

@dangeourbrain

Fair point. My phone was in my jersey pocket for both of those rides. So here are 3 runs performed on the 27th of December, 13th of Jan and 15th of Jan, all over the same route:

Run 1 - 10.04km
Run 2 - 10.03km
Run 3 - 10.04km

I didn’t have my phone with me for any of these. So if it’s tracking badly, at least it’s consistently bad.

These are all recorded from the Apple fitness tracker, started manually as I leave the driveway, then uploaded to Strava via RunGap.

So if it’s tracking badly, at least it’s consistently bad.

Which is in practice much better than inconsistently good.

10m consistency is very good.

Was a long time Garmin user then got an AW4 non-cellular as I wasn't really very active and was more interested in the smart side of things. Then bought an AW6 Cellular thinking having the option would be nice but never once used it in anger and it cripples the battery life. You're not going to get much more than 6-8 hours of GPS and that is assuming you remember to charge it before you go.

My runs are pretty local and in areas where plenty of people pass by so if I was injured help would be easy enough to summon. If I am riding then I have a phone with me and a phone is generally easier to use than poking around trying to make a phone call from the AW. I never responded to texts or emails either from it except canned responses which a lot of Garmin watches can do also.

Now I am much more active again I found the AW too limiting and am back to Garmin (fenix 6X). The only thing I really miss is pay by watch but pay by phone/contactless is nearly as good but other than that I prefer the extra training features of the Garmin and also the fact I charge it every week to 10 days and not daily.

It seems to me like most posters here would carry a phone anyway for riding and are happy just leaving it at home when running (I'm fine with this too, but I rarely run so that's not really what it's for).

Maybe I go with this approach in the end but I might hold on til Garmin releases its next batch just in case, unless I get a fabulous deal on a Fenix. Or indeed til I can go to a bricks & mortar shop because actually trying them for size on my wrist is another thing. I would expect to wear it all the time I guess, and my wrists aren't huge, so bigger battery more rugged 6 vs smaller lighter 6S is another question mark. Then Vs connected Samsung that's less sporty and less robust but does the phone thing. I'm skeptical with the idea that I wouldn't benefit from something with a bezel to take away most of the scratches/knocks. Analogue watches I've scratched plenty in the past.

unless you’re out in the wilds you’re rarely far from from others in the UK.

I can be a 10 minute run from the house and wouldn't be found for many hours if something happened to me - so always take my phone with me, unless I'm just pounding the village streets. Everyone takes whatever precautions they feel necessary for themselves though.
As already mentioned - Garmins have incident detection and live tracking on them too; which links via your phone if they detect a crash/fall or can just show location on a map.

Also worth noting that wrist based HRM is nothing more than a guide (doesn't matter which watch you've got). If you're getting technical enough with your training that you're working on heart rates / zones, then a chest strap is the only way to go.

For my 2 Penneth. Was bought an AW last year, I did deliberate before opening the box. In hindsight I would have changed it for a Garmin. I find it a really frustrating bit of tech, even the slight delay in the screen waking up when I raise my wrist. It sat on my bedside table for 5 months until I found the app “WorkOutDoors” that’s proper good for my board and ski paddles. However it’s still a pain. It’s shit for use with wetsuit gloves etc due to the touch screen. It’s as if they’ve tried to be too clever. I would prefer to be able to start stop with simple on off rather than a countdown. To be honest my old Timex Ironman watch is easier to use if I want to use a stopwatch etc while coaching.
It’s really unintuitive unlike every Apple device I’ve had before (full fanboy)

I was working on another preconception that I would want buttons and avoid the touchscreen. Riding in gloves and all that. I'm still holding with that one.

I've just measured my wrist at 185mm. Pretty average it turns out so maybe I just don't like the look of big watches.

I was working on another preconception that I would want buttons and avoid the touchscreen. Riding in gloves and all that. I’m still holding with that one.

However it’s still a pain. It’s shit for use with wetsuit gloves etc due to the touch screen.

personally I've found the HRM pretty good, don't really use it for logging rides/runs though so can't comment about GPS accuracy.

how much interaction do you want?

personally I press start at the start, lock the screen, occasionally check the time/pace and press stop at the end.

if i'm running intervals, a double tap on the screen starts a new lap.

Also FWIW - I've disabled the always on feature of the Apple Watch 6 and now get 3 days out of it even if I track an hour of exercise every day and listen to Audiobooks via bluetooth during that exercise.

I got a Garmin Forerunner 35 as I didn't like having to carry my pone when out running. Upgraded now to a Vivoactive 4 and think it's ace for what I need. I like Garmin Connect and have bought a Garmin HR monitor + Edge bike GPS thing that all play nicely together. You can download Spotify stuff to the watch if you want to listen to music without the phone and answer calls with it (or read messages etc) if you have the phone reasonably close.
When out on the bike If I take a Camelbak I take my phone, if not I don't. Can't say I've worried if I don't have it.

My wife has a Apple Watch 3 and it's well made and very slick. Woeful battery though. I expect they are better now but maybe not enough for me. The Garmin lasts 4-7 days depending on activity.

Now I am much more active again I found the AW too limiting and am back to Garmin (fenix 6X). The only thing I really miss is pay by watch

6X has Garmin Pay, no need to miss it.

Good morning, I have been looking for a smart watch last few days and am in the budget range. I have just ordered an Amazfit Stratos 3, from the reviews I could find it appears to be 50/50 for good and bad. Will see how it goes, I only want it for running and recording rides. It can store music as well so hopefully leave the phone at home for running but still carry it for riding.

Unfortunately garmins etc are out of my price range so will see how this goes

and if the current crop of smar****ch's really don't meet your needs, program your own....

Bangle.js Smart Watch (espruino.com)

Fenix 6X Pro here - I go running without my phone and use the watch for music and paying for stuff if I stop at a shop (Curve Card on Garmin Pay). It does it for me.
I tried an Apple Watch for 3 months at the end of last year. Was a good bit of kit, which I was happy with, I just didn't get on with having ti charge it pretty much every day, but that says more about how lazy/forgetful I am rather than the tech.

6X has Garmin Pay, no need to miss it.

Yes but Garmin Pay is supported by only 2 or 3 banks in the UK unlike Apple/Google Pay which is pretty much universal. My bank is on the long list of those unsupported 🙂

Yes but Garmin Pay is supported by only 2 or 3 banks in the UK unlike Apple/Google Pay which is pretty much universal. My bank is on the long list of those unsupported 🙂

Curve.

You should read The State of the Art by Iain M Banks