[Closed] Spiritual bollocks

Spiritual is a word with so many meanings it effectively has none.

It has been appropriated by some for anything that makes you feel a bit relaxed or happy.

I'm sure that as an atheist you'd probably go along with the idea that the religious experience of spirituality is probably an altered state of mind rather than actually being 'closer to God', so I don't see any problem with an atheist having a similar experience.

Call it what you want.

They are confusing a rush of Adrenalin and Endorphins with something that doesn't exist.

That makes a lot of sense - altered state of mind - whether from endorphins or whatever - yeah, I can see that.

+1 for Mr Woppit

I think 'spiritual' has a multitude of definitions. If you don't like the term, don't use it, as you're possibly going to be miscommunicating. From my own observation, I've found that many people tend to use it to describe a level of their own unconscious. Much in the same way that some others refer to the same thing as 'god'.

In regards to the guy doing the endurance riding: he's doing something which creates great stress physically, mentally and emotionally. It's no surprise that he describes the experience as profound as he must internalise so many processes in order to achieve success, or even just to participate for any considerable length of time.

Could you describe the sense of well-being that you obtain from yoga?

@reluctant, those of us who do have a sense of spirituality aren't going to debate it on here. Its been done over and again on the forum and I have to say the "antis" are pretty aggressive and unpleasant. If you re into Yoga I suggest you explore some of the meditation aspects of it, if you do so with an open mind I think you'll get a lot out of that.

You spiritual atheist you are screwed! 😆

What the bloke has described is him high on drugs after taking performing enhancing substances and we know they all do it ... 🙄

Can you have one if you are an atheist?

Not with Abrahamic faith and yes you can.

Wahey! Atheist circle jerk. Someone get Dicky Dawkins on the phone...

Wahey! Atheist circle jerk.

Well, as I said, if it makes you feel relaxed and happy, then yes, you could call it a spiritual experience.

This video explains it well

If you're interested in this stuff read Waking up by Sam Harris. Top of a long climb, beautiful dusty summers day, amazing view and feeling good = Spiritual.

it's that feeling you get in the last 10 miles of a 40 mile ride.

It's about contentment I think. A gentle bimble/plod/walk/meander can be just as fulfilling as a full-on blast/sprint/jump/run if you have the right frame of mind. Appreciating nature and all its wonder and horribleness, enjoying what you have instead of looking to things you want, and the fact that we're just passing through and are temporary tenants of the world around us, can give a very strong sense of wellbeing and at-oneness with the whole shebang 😀

Let go Luke...

I'm an atheist too.

I have to say the "antis" are pretty aggressive and unpleasant.

Wahey! Atheist circle jerk. Someone get Dicky Dawkins on the phone

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Just a little sideways.
How many atheists celebrated Christmas this year?

Have you never had a certain feeling on the top of some hill, you spent the last hour and a half grinding up it in your granny gear, there's no one else about, there's maybe even a little nip in the air, it somehow feels special?

Or you've just pushed your grade climbing and for the last 15 minutes you've existed in a timeless space where you've suddenly felt very much alive (probably as you thought it was going to end, badly)?

Now, could call [i]that[/i] spiritual (I'd just call it "alive") if you wanted.

Stoddys - Christmas has in the main lost its Christian connotations now (not saying that's right or wrong - just a fact) and the main things we associate with Christmas have closer links to a heathen winter festival - Santa Claus/feasting/decorated tree/family gathering.

It's all about performance enhancing drugs ... 🙄

I consider myself to be an atheist but I'm also open to the fact that there is more going on in the universe and even on Earth than we know about. I feel it when I look up at the sky or stand on a high mountain or dive to the pathetic depths I've achieved thus far. Maybe that's spiritual ut I don't really have a clue.

How many atheists celebrated Christmas this year?

I had some time off work because the office was closed, and I gave presents to people I like because it's become somewhat of a tradition.

I certainly did not 'celebrate Christmas', whatever that actually means nowadays as I'm sure its pretty much defined by your own beliefs.

I feel it when I look up at the sky or stand on a high mountain or dive to the pathetic depths I've achieved thus far. Maybe that's spiritual ut I don't really have a clue.

Me too, but I think that's just my mind wrestling with the realisation of my insignificance to the wider universe*, and the mind-boggling infinite complexity of it all!

I think a lot of us have had the 'feeling' that is being described, but whether you chose to call it spiritual or not, again depends on your personal beliefs.

I often go out on a ride to 'think', but what actually happens is I go out for a ride, my mind is racing thinking about all the things I need to think about for a bout 10-15mins, and then a few hours later I finish and realise I've been in that lovely place where I think of nothing at all and was just enjoying 'being' for a while.

*and reminding me that since basically the universe doesn't give a shit about me, I shouldn't give a shit about it but just get on with being me and enjoying it 🙂

WTF is a spiritual practice? Can you have one if you are an atheist? Do you have one, and what does it do for you?

I wouldn't worry about it, you obviously believe a load of atheist bollocks.

Gosh, how profound. Are you "spiritual"?

As far as I understand, people that claim to be spiritual are just afraid of death but don't fancy all the rules of religion. There needs to be something more than just the life you live and death can't be the end but they don't mind the gays, hell doesn't sound very nice and praying takes too much time in their busy schedules.

I'm with jambalaya on this one. This forum is not a place for an intelligent and mutually respectful discussion about what spiritual means, if you have a religious faith.

It's how i feel after a particularly good malt. 😀

My favourite Zen saying:

After ecstasy, the laundry.

If you accept that, you will be happy. And don't be a dick of course.

Don't get drawn in Vicky - it's just tradition and it is NY Eve!

This forum is not a place for an intelligent and mutually respectful discussion about what spirituality means if you have a religious faith.

I don't know, it might be quite interesting to compare and contrast. "Spiritual" may well be a thing if you're talking about parts of the psyche than can't easily be described in conventional terms.

Love, for example, is really just a chemical imbalance which induces an irrational belief that one person is slightly less mental than everyone else. But if we all looked at it like that, the Arts would take a battering.

I'd hope that even Woppit would struggle to argue that feelings and emotions don't exist, so arguably any activity could be "spiritual" if it makes you feel better. Ever felt blissed out after a good massage? Or, the canonical example perhaps, sex?

Sure, if you're going to bury a lump of quartz in your front garden(*) in order to align your inner chakras then you can get in the sack with the Homeopaths et al, and my views on "finding god" are well documented elsewhere; but if you're just going to dismiss "spiritual" as non-existent then I'd love to hear your scientific explanation of, oh, I don't know, consciousness?

(* - not a euphemism)

and I kind of wish more people were like me

I really,really don't.

I have a ton of mind-altering crystals and whale music to shift next year.

I don't know, it might be quite interesting to compare and contrast. "Spiritual" may well be a thing if you're talking about parts of the psyche than can't easily be described in conventional terms.

Love, for example, is really just a chemical imbalance which induces an irrational belief that one person is slightly less mental than everyone else. But if we all looked at it like that, the Arts would take a battering.

I'd hope that even Woppit would struggle to argue that feelings and emotions don't exist, so arguably any activity could be "spiritual" if it makes you feel better. Ever felt blissed out after a good massage? Or, the canonical example perhaps, sex?

Sure, if you're going to bury a lump of quartz in your front garden(*) in order to align your inner chakras then you can get in the sack with the Homeopaths et al, and my views on "finding god" are well documented elsewhere; but if you're just going to dismiss "spiritual" as non-existent then I'd love to hear your scientific explanation of, oh, I don't know, consciousness?

(* - not a euphemism)

Or you could just stick the kettle on........ 😕

The missus got bought a lump of tourmaline to ease her stress by a seemingly rational and intelligent human being. The missus put it to her chest and immediately reported an effect and insisted i try it too. I obliged and made positive noises and smiled whilst secretly wanting to thrash a mini with a sapling. Go figure.

How many atheists celebrated Christmas this year?

just as an aside, seeing as the mighty Woppit has stomped in..

I appreciate atheism, and I personally find it hard to understand why people with religious faith choose to believe what they believe..

but I find it harder to understand people who think that disrespecting folk because of their belief is OK

The missus got bought a lump of tourmaline to ease her stress by a seemingly rational and intelligent human being. The missus put it to her chest and immediately reported an effect and insisted i try it too. I obliged and made positive noises and smiled whilst secretly wanting to thrash a mini with a sapling. Go figure.

Yes, but the bloke who has found a market for a useless, inert lump of mineral is feeling very spiritually gratified as a result, so in whole-world terms two people feel better and only you felt worse. Net effect = greater happiness.

- it's just tradition and it is NY Eve!

Which was originally a Pagan holiday before the Buddhists stole it from the Christians and then the Mormons made a sandw....erm...I seem to have got derailed. What was the question again?

but I find it harder to understand people who think that disrespecting folk because of their belief is OK

I'll alert the media.

will you?

I'll alert your mum

Top of a long climb, beautiful dusty summers day, amazing view and feeling good = Spiritual.

I'll alert the media.

I'm not entirely sure the media will take you seriously, [url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/bomb-at-liverpool-street#post-2537550 ]given past events.[/url]

will you?

I'll alert your mum

You'd have a problem with that.

not really.. my right bollock is very spiritual I'll have you know

Meaning?

Out riding on a good day, walking with my dogs on huge beaches on sunny days, windsurfing miles offshore alone but for flying fish or migrating whales, all give feelings that I can't reconcile with the concept of a god but I do think fall into a category usually called spiritual.
They feel special as everything is just right, spiritual just seems to be a tag tied on to it that has hijacked the fact you can feel so good without it needing to be anything external to you. You are responding to everything being sorted and happy within yourself.
And this is remarkably inarticulate, even by my standards.

search for the meaning within yourself

Walking potion - is it about the walking, or the potion? And singing a song to the lake, about the lake.

but I find it harder to understand people who think that disrespecting folk because of their belief is OK

It's quite simple. Disrespecting the belief is ok, disrespecting the person because of the belief is not.

I'll alert the media.

I could just ban you for a couple of hours if it meant the adults could have a conversation? (-:

I've nothing to add but....

Miss Houns, a very clever, amazing woman, very highly regarded in the nursing world is in to all that yoghurt weaving pap. She's doing her witch degree, she's wiccan/pagan and has so many different oils and crystals. Her Mum and sister are in to it and her sisters degree (one of them) is something to do with natural healing.

Of course I'm sceptical (and thankfully so is my brother in law) so we do question things (ok take the piss) but like seeing her have a passion. Though having taken her to Galstonbury I just see (like all other religions) people using it to make money out of "believers"

Out of all the different religions etc I think it's the least harmless. It boils down to liking nature and not being a dick. That I think is something we all need to get in to

yunki - Member
search for the meaning within yourself

Sorry, you've conflated your right bollock with my mother after complaining about disrespectful posts.

Perilously close to looking like a nob. Door still slightly ajar for you, however.

She's doing her witch degree

Excellent stuff. Good to see more people standing up for our consumer rights.

Perilously close to looking like a nob

oh the shame

Hello.

So it's looking like a 2-for-1 banning special coming up 😀

Hello

Good afternoon.

I can't be banned.. my right testicle receives messages from beyond the grave

Have you clanged your mini cymbals of your right testicle?

(I caught Miss Houns clanging her cymbals over some crystal the other day to cleanse it)

[IMG] [/IMG]

well the funny part is, my left ball is a total atheist, but they still manage to hang out together

😀 😀

Jamie - Freeloader!
Which was originally a Pagan holiday before the Buddhists stole it from the Christians and then the Mormons made a sandw....erm...I seem to have got derailed. What was the question again?

Get the order right will you ... 🙄

The order should be Pagan (many forms in many part of the world), Buddhists (there were other religions before and after) and finally the Abrahmic faith (depending on version you have adopted). The last is also the one that try to destroy everyone because of their strong absolute views ... 😯

She's doing her witch degree, she's wiccan/pagan and has so many different oils and crystals.

I share your pain
We never discuss this as arguments follow

I think there is considerable difference between religion and spiritual

If you have never stood in awe and wonder at the world and everything within it then you have something missing in your life , one may even say soul here if you like.

If after doing this and considerable reflection that may last months or years you consider a mystical being made it all then you have something missing in your intellectual faculties*.

This forum is not a place for an intelligent and mutually respectful discussion about what spiritual means, if you have a religious faith.

* i assume that is viewed as disrespectful but in all honesty I cannot respect any view that has no evidence and runs contrary to the known facts however much [ blind] faith you have in or how sincerely you believe.

I thought this thread was about someone's genitalia becoming possessed, and was dragging the person it was attached to up and down the halfway on a child's tricycle.

You get one life, that's pretty short. If its hugging trees, worshipping a God, or Satan(capitalists do) yogic flying or whatever manner of "weirdness", if it helps get you through and makes this life more interesting for yourself or others(in the form of them laughing at you) then fine.

The downside to this of course is you possibly sharing(imposing) your belief with/onto others, and killing those who don't believe.

The day the Tibetan monks start setting fire to others, then we'll really be in the sh*t.

but I find it harder to understand people who think that disrespecting folk because of their belief is OK

Funnily enough in all the services I gave been too (in different versions) I have never been told to go out and kill anyone. In fact quite the opposite.

Buddhism is not a religion. It is a following, The Buddah was not a God, but a Prince who found enlightenment.

You can follow the path of the Buddah yet still be a Christian/Muslim or whatever.

It is very flexible/adaptable.

And yes, I am a Buddhist. 😀

I'm not religious, but very few people who believe in the bearded sky fairy, of whichever flavour, actually support killing non-believers. Those that do propose killing others usually have a political motive far more than a religious one.

But I read a book recently where the bloke banged on about endurance sports being spiritual

Shit boring stereotypical writing probably explains that

I have no problem disrespecting someone who tries to explain Life the Universe And Everything in terms of a big beardy sky fairy, then advocates killing anyone who disagrees with that.

If I ever hear anyone saying that, I'll disrespect them too. Fortunately it is rare in the Christian world, so how about some respect for those who aren't advocating killing?

very few people who believe in the bearded sky fairy, of whichever flavour, actually support killing non-believers.

It's quite simple. Disrespecting the belief is ok, disrespecting the person because of the belief is not.

But the person is the belief; unless of course you believe that a person and their beliefs are separate entities with no bearing on one another? And where is this respect/disrespect directed? Respect for which ability? Or do you just have one respect for all parts of a person's personality make-up? It's not really very simple at all; is it?

Historically its reasonable to say the religions have clashed with each other and persecuted each other, Whether that is a religion thing or a human thing is debatable but IMHO its a human thing exacerbated by the certainty and fervour of devout belief. that is tribes would have clashed without religion but religion [ and being promised the same land] made it worse.

For example blasphemy and heresy have been crimes here and still are in the more devout regions as has been denying the lord

then again some atheists have persecuted the religious [ generally communists

being a shit seems to be something all humans can do and we seem to be discussing what the religious did in the past not what they are doing here now their empire/power is on the wane

and please... can we engage our intellect for a second and remember that for each fighty grumpy religious person, there are many, many more peaceful, tolerant and loving religious folk

It might be really helpful if someone all internetty and resourceful could research the stats and come up with a ratio for this

Teamhurtmore and Molgrips have put it pretty well, as has jy.

But the person is the belief; unless of course you believe that a person and their beliefs are separate entities with no bearing on one another? And where is this respect/disrespect directed? Respect for which ability? Or do you just have one respect for all parts of a person's personality make-up? It's not really very simple at all; is it?

If I believed I was a teapot, that belief isn't deserving of respect (because it's ludicrous), but I should still command respect as a person, no?

I do hear what you're saying, it's not always perfectly black and white. But it should be possible, generally, to discuss things without being bloody unpleasant about it.

Anyway.

<mod>
This thread is swerving vigorously off-topic and into an argument which has been done time and again. Can we go back to the OP's topic please? If we're going to retread the same old wah wah sky wizards wah wah nasty atheists schtick I'll just close off the file.
</mod>

Quite yunki, but given the (accepted?) thread title, such consideration is/was unlikely!!

(Oops cross post, no hammers pls cougar 😉 )

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I'd like to clarify my earlier comment - it wasn't meant to be a sweeping
generalisation. Cougar and Junkyard are excepted 😉

More on topic, I agree that the word is loosely defined, and I think nature can arouse a kind of spiritual feeling.

Cougar and Junkyard are excepted

Its a strange one as all the religious folk I know in the real world try really hard to be good people and live by a moral code I could not
the capacity to forgive is far greater than anything I will ever come close to achieving They are also generally just lovely people and whilst they know my views i woudl never state them as on here.

getting dangerously back on topic i do think its possible to be spiritual without belief
I still practice aspects of Buddhism from my days of dabbling and many of the parables of Jesus [ I like the sower in particular], and the new testament in general, are an excellent moral guidebook. How to treat strangers, forgiveness, turn the other cheek, move on be excellent to each other etc
Peace out to you all and Happy new year

getting dangerously back on topic i do think its possible to be spiritual without belief
I still practice aspects of Buddhism from my days of dabbling and many of the parables of Jesus [ I like the sower in particular], and the new testament in general, are an excellent moral guidebook. How to treat strangers, forgiveness, turn the other cheek, move on be excellent to each other etc
Peace out to you all and Happy new year

*Yes, I was watching Dave Allen. 😉

Ask yourself what the word spirit means, what it means to have spirit - this might help define spiritualism.

Ask yourself what the word spirit means, what it means to have spirit - this might help define spiritualism.

Maybe, but it depends on your definition of spirit. You have to also consider the interaction with other people and the world in general as well. There are plenty of 'spirited' people who are utter bastards, they are happy in themselves, but their happiness is gained at the expense of others.

I think that increasing your own sense of contentment whilst trying to help others do likewise is not far off a good definition.

Originally (and properly), i think a spiritual practice was anything that brought you closer to the divine/the spirit/ God. That could be mediation, fasting, sleep depravation, drug taking, whatever. It involves making, or rediscovering, a connection so profound that all else pales into insignificance.

A spiritual experience is the aim of spiritual practice (making the connection, or maybe breaking the connection with the present). You're not necessarily going to have a profound experience just because you've sat staring at a candle for half an hour, but some people do. Practice makes perfect I suppose, and a predisposition towards these sorts of things will help.

You could certainly have a spiritual experience as an atheist, but perhaps you would not be one afterwards. As to what it does, I'm not really sure. At the very least it changes you perception, your point of view.