[Closed] Speeding fine WTF?

any points?

An email? I'd have expected any official notification to be written.

I'd also have thought that court costs for an appearance would be in excess of £100

any points?

Yes, +3 points.

Sounds a bit fishy.....as above, I'd have expected a letter.....

Are you sure it's a legitimate e-mail? 6 months is a long time too....

£200 and 3 pints for driving at 49 in a 40 - take it.

But if you haven't the cash, you'll be able to ask for time to pay.

Sounds dodgy to me. You've paid up and taken the points, it wouldn't go to court even if it did they'd let you know before hand.

Sounds a bit fishy.....as above, I'd have expected a letter.....

Are you sure it's a legitimate e-mail? 6 months is a long time too....

Yes, definitely legit unfortunately. I filled in the original forms online- which I didn't get until 5 months after being stopped.

Why has a minor speeding offense gone to court?

Minor?

You were doing 22.5% over the limit. That's not even remotely close to minor. And with most speedos over reading you were probably doing an indicated 53mph maybe?

i'd have thought that 50 in a 40 constitutes as 'minor'....I know loads of folks who have been caught going at 10mph over limit and none have gone to court

Minor?

You were doing 22.5% over the limit. That's not even remotely close to minor. And with most speedos over reading you were probably doing an indicated 53mph maybe?

The policeman who pulled me over told me I was doing 49.
And according to NPCC guidelines it is 'minor', and eligible for a speed awareness course.
I'm just a bit miffed that they've added an extra £100 on when I've complied with their requests.

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Yes, definitely legit unfortunately. I filled in the original forms online- which I didn't get until 5 months after being stopped.

You should have received the first letter asking for the name of the driver within 14 days. Five months would even be beyond the deadline for a straight summons. You could have probably got the whole thing dropped at that point, not that this is any use to you now.

However, now it's somehow reached the court system, I predict it will cause you more than 100 quids worth of hassle to sort it out in your favour, even if that were possible.

Putting the pitch fork down 😉 can you not treat this as any other dodgy email, say from a bank.

If it has a reference you can try to call them (look up the number, don't use one in the email) to get clarity.

The £100 court costs may simply be their way of saying admin charges. Maybe it was reviewed by a court official or maybe the costs go into one pot and the fine another. Either way if it is legit I'd just suck it up, pay it.

You should have received the first letter asking for the name of the driver within 14 days.

That's only if you are caught by a camera. I was stopped in person (by an unmarked car incidentally), so the 'NIP' can be given verbally.

Also is it not different if you are caught by a camera vs. being pulled over. I wouldn't know, I don't speed 😉

Looking at the table above suggests that 46 is the max for a Fixed Penalty and there's been some 'Magesterial Discretion ' applied. I guess that's where the additional £100 went.

Just because you're eligible for a course doesn't mean you'll be offered one, it's at the discretion of the local police force.

However, quite why it's been dealt with by the courts and not a fixed penalty I have no idea. That's the question I'd be asking.

However, quite why it's been dealt with by the courts and not a fixed penalty I have no idea

Looking at the table above suggests that 46 is the max for a Fixed Penalty and there's been some 'Magesterial Discretion ' applied. I guess that's where the additional £100 went.

If it's all legit it's probably going to be more hassle than it's worth getting rid of the extra £100, if that is even possible.

Because it was above 46mph?

Nope. Below 46 you wouldn't get anything. Above 46 could be either the £100 fine + 3 points, or speed awareness course.
There is a 10% + 2mph threshold, in order to prevent people from having to obsessively stare at their speedoes so they can pay more attention to the road.

We're you offered/given and did you accept a ticket from the cop who stopped you?

If it's all legit it's probably going to be more hassle than it's worth getting rid of the extra £100, if that is even possible.

I suppose I don't really have any choice other than to bend over and take it.
But at least I've stuck it the man by having a bit of a moan on a mountain bike forum. 😉

We're you offered/given and did you accept a ticket from the cop who stopped you?

He just took my details and said they'd be in touch to let me know whether it would be a fine, SAC or prosecution.

Call them and ask.

You could have done that already in the time you've spent on here.

There is a 10% + 2mph threshold, in order to prevent people from having to obsessively stare at their speedoes so they can pay more attention to the road.

ACPO doesn't even exist anymore.

£200 and [b]3 pints[/b] for driving at 49 in a 40 - take it.

Drunk driving and speeding, you got off lightly 🙂

And since sending the thing back saying 'it was me, I'll tie the £100 and 3 points' this is the first thing you've had?

Nope. Below 46 you wouldn't get anything. Above 46 could be either the £100 fine + 3 points, or speed awareness course.

Where appropriate, if it was busy traffic, near where kids plays or a lot pedestrians then they may tolerate it less than a big wide straight empty road. 46 in a 40 is a ridiculous speed.

I had something similar a few years ago, responded to a speeding notice, filled in all the forms, heard nothing for 6 months then got a £472 fine.

Shortly after I got a damaged envelope from the post office with the speeding notice forms returned damaged.

Because it was above 46mph?

What I mean is: according to the guidelines, up to 46 is a fixed penalty, 46-53 is a course. If they aren't offering the course as per ACPO I'd have expected a fixed penalty to apply instead.

I can't for the life of me think that they're processing all "46 in a 40" cases in court, the system would grind to a halt (which is precisely why we have fixed penalties in the first place).

I also find it bizarre that they'd send something like that by email and not post. OP, when did you receive the points etc, just now or at the time? Is this the first communication since you filled in the form? Are you [i]sure[/i] it's not very convincing spam? Cos it really sounds like it.

Depends where you got pulled I know from experience at the beginning of the year South yorkshire police have a zero tolerance, ie the guidlines are exactly that, they don't have to abide by them and they have decided not to for a spell. I think this is whilst the coffers are running low and need topping up.

31 in a 30 gets you 100 quid and 3 points

If they are having a zero policy day..erm well basically your done.

SYP dont have the best policy for being honest guv, but advice said if you go to court and the judge isn't in a good mood expect the book to be thrown in your general direction.

I once received a letter about going to court, for speeding, which I had paid the fine and received the points.

I contacted them and they corrected their mistake.

Phone them!

the 10% + / - 2 mph thing is balls (even outside Wales).

I received a ticket from a camera in a little Toyota Yaris courtesy car going 34 in a 30 (on a wide road that would usually be a 40)... on the way to pick up my Supra that was never ticketed.

not that I'm bitter (much).

34 in a Yaris? I call bullshit.

I think this is whilst the coffers are running low and need topping up.

I see no reason why the motorist can't subsidise general taxation to a much greater extent. Provided speed cameras aren't placed immediately after limit changes (ie 60 -> 30) it's entirely your own fault if you set one off.

May as well hide the things and put them everywhere. Would make hundreds of millions in the first year; over time there'd be a general reduction in speeding and if sufficient people get banned a pleasant reduction in traffic on the roads.

Employ G4S wombles to clamp untaxed / uninsured / inconsiderately parked cars; automatic cameras to catch tailgating and middle-lane-hoggers; sound activated cameras for the knobs with bean can exhausts...

You could even go to a pay-per-mile tax for road use with a penalty for fat people driving short distances. Less than a mile? That'll be a fiver. Reduce it with distance to make it fairer.

Presumed liability if you hit a bike. Removal of bike lanes painted on pavements where the bike has to give way every 15 feet...

I appreciate that I'd probably be unpopular if I had control of the roads in this country, but I think getting the people most able to pay extra taxes through stupidity, laziness, and lack of consideration to their fellow drivers is an excellent way to do it.

Is there evidence out there that someone has actually been done for 31 in a 30?

ade9933 - Member

the 10% + / - 2 mph thing is balls (even outside Wales).

I received a ticket from a camera in a little Toyota Yaris courtesy car going 34 in a 30

Yep. I got a speed awareness course for 34 in a 30....

Thinking about it, I wonder if your reply to them never arrived, so they are taking it that you've just ignored the original letter & hitting you a bit harder for 'ignoring' the original NIP?

I got a speed awareness for 76 or 77 in a 70. There were several people there who had been doing 33 in a 30.

I think this is whilst the coffers are running low and need topping up.

Despite the guidelines for prosecution, you'd be a bit of an idiot to knowingly travel past a speed trap or camera above the speed limit.

On a bit of a tangent, the very visible police with hairdryer on my commute 2 mornings this week (possibly 3 but I took the canal this morning) have made that particular stretch of road far more pleasant to ride along.

There is a 10% + 2mph threshold, in order to prevent people from having to obsessively stare at their speedoes so they can pay more attention to the road.

[i]What I mean is: according to the guidelines, up to 46 is a fixed penalty, 46-53 is a course. If they aren't offering the course as per ACPO I'd have expected a fixed penalty to apply instead. [/i]

No. Above 46 you COULD be offered a course, but might not be.

I believe the 10% +2 ACPO guideline is largely there because otherwise they'd be processing a far higher number of charges than the system can cope with.

No. Above 46 you COULD be offered a course, but might not be.

Yeah, I know. That's what I said; and if they're choosing not to offer the course, surely it's a fixed penalty instead?

Is there evidence out there that someone has actually been done for 31 in a 30?

The guy running my speed awareness course claimed that was the case in Wales.

There were some on my course who claimed to have been done for 33 in a 30.

Everyone commenting on the idiot Driver is as usual holier than thou. I'm sure everyone has speeddedd at some point or another and just not been caught.

When I did a speed awareness course recently the a Instructor asked each person how they were caught.

Everybody had some excuse, most along the lines of didn't realise the speed they were going.

When it came to me, I said I was speeding and had intended to be. Cruise set at 80mph, done at 79mph. Since then I've set the cruise at 79mph, as that'll be 1 mph below the MW been-done limit 🙂

If a driver doesn't know how fast they are going, they're a 5h1t driver IMO

Everyone commenting on the idiot Driver is as usual holier than thou. I'm sure everyone has speeddedd at some point or another and just not been caught.

Slow down, fella. Your spelling is out of control.

OP. Ring the relevant people on Monday and query the decision. The only solace is you at least got your money's worth. I got done for doing 33 in a 30 zone last year. That stung.

Everyone commenting on the idiot Driver is as usual holier than thou. I'm sure everyone has speeddedd at some point or another and just not been caught.

This whole "indicated speed" thing also annoys me. "You got done at 77 so indicated must have been 85" etc. How do you know? Are all speeds calibrated "out"? Seems pointless to me. If it says 30 I do 30 on my speedo. Why is that hard to follow?

Seems pointless to me. If it says 30 I do 30 on my speedo. Why is that hard to follow?

Which reminds me, someone at the course a colleague went on was complaining that she was only 1 mph over the limit. The instructors insisted that she must have been going faster. She was adamant. 1 mph over the limit. not a single bit more.

She was doing 37 in a 30. "10% + 3mph =36, so that's the [i]real[/i] limit. I was only doing 1mph more than that" 🙄

Edit: And the answers when the instructors asked what the national speed limit for a single carriageway road was were between 40 and 80mph 😯

Everyone commenting on the idiot Driver is as usual holier than thou. I'm sure everyone has speeddedd at some point or another and just not been caught.

Got caught twice once I was speeding doing 76 in a 70 the other I wasn't but copper insisted I was; he couldn't play the tape as he'd not chosen to record it, 56 in a 50 he claimned. It was a 50 after a few accidents it had been 70, when the storm settled after the accidents it went back to 70.

I'm a little disappointed the limit for prosecution is so high, but I guess our court systems wouldn't be able to cope. The fixed penalty fines really should be a lot higher to deter people, £200 for doing 49 in a 40 is getting off lightly.

And whilst we're at it I speed every time I'm on a dual carriageway when on work duty as I'm in a van. I think I'm right in thinking the limit is 60 for such things which I have to question why? My 3 year old van will certainly stop quicker and in a safer fashion than some chavved up corsa driven by a child! All wrong I tell ya all wrong!

[quote=shindiggy ]I'm a little disappointed the limit for prosecution is so high, but I guess our court systems wouldn't be able to cope. The fixed penalty fines really should be a lot higher to deter people, £200 for doing 49 in a 40 is getting off lightly.

It would appear that there are between 200,000 and 250,000 speeding tickets issued each year in England and Wales. Increasing the fixed penalty by another £100 or so would bring in some much-needed revenue.

@ Wrightyson you and the van may stop there's a good chance your load may not. Have a look at the mess a bulkbag of aggregate can do under emergency stop conditions on 5th Gear. That's why the 60 limit for larger vans is in place.
Edited for bag clarification.

I've got a limit of 650 kg ish I think in the transit. Few big lads in lycra and bikes are pushing that in a Mondeo some weekends I reckon...

That is some big lads but your van can take 3 people too.

I've got a limit of 650 kg ish I think in the transit. Few big lads in lycra and bikes are pushing that in a Mondeo some weekends I reckon.

Three 30 stone riders? 😆

Is there evidence out there that someone has actually been done for 31 in a 30?

I can scan the entire communication with SYP if you want ,

If it says 30 I do 30 on my speedo.

I'd rather you drove to the conditions, which may be less than 30.

10%+2 is ACPO guidelines ie. Only advice on what they consider good practice. Thames Valley add an extra +1. Most welsh forces will prosecute at as low a speed vas they can get away with.

As a rule speedos tend to over read speed, though most of the ones I've compared to GPS very accurate certainly FAR less than 10% out.

I've just had a nosey on gov.uk, at the speed limits. I always thought a van was 60 on a motorway, the same as a dual carriageway, but if I've read it correctly, it's 70. Is this right or have I misread it?

70 on a motorway.

Lots of forces operate a TOR system, (traffic officer report) where you dont get a ticket, but are verbally NIP'd for the offence and reported. The facts are then sent to an admin dept who look at your previous driver behaviour/reports. As far as im aware the 10%+2mph threshold still exists and despite hearing many times about people who have been prosecuted for a lower limit....i have never seen any documentary evidence to support this.

As a rule speedos tend to over read speed, though most of the ones I've compared to GPS very accurate certainly FAR less than 10% out.

I think car speedos must be accurate within 7% and must not under-estimate actual speed. For that reason, and because getting the reading perfect is challenging, most manufacturers will aim for + 3-4%. Then if the speedo is a couple of mph out it's still legal.

That's my understanding anyway. My old (2008) Civic would indicate 65 for a GPS indicated 60mph. Of course GPS doesn't take into account (the vertical component of) hills very well .

My wife recently came home and said I think I've just been caught speeding by a police motorcyclist with a speed gun. Sure enough a week or so later the summons arrives (she was doing 41 in a 30), trouble is the car (a Yaris) is registered in my name, so we've had to send the form back and we're waiting fore the outcome.

I think car speedos must be accurate within 7%

+10%, +6.25mph, -0.

So 70mph could show as high as 83.25mph, but not less than 70mph.

As far as im aware the 10%+2mph threshold still exists and despite hearing many times about people who have been prosecuted for a lower limit....i have never seen any documentary evidence to support this.

I guess I imagined mine.

Yeh, they also tend to be very accurate at lower speeds, and progressively over read more, so a reading of 30mph will be pretty much bang on, but if you're reading a hundred, your almost guaranteed to be going slower.

That's percentages for you. (-:

OP you should have had other letters, seems a bit strange - I would query it

My ex-wife got done for 33 in a 30 by a speed camera in Leeds.

Flaperon for president!

I phoned the court to query it, and was told that this is now policy (in Wales at least)- rather than a fixed penalty notice, speeding fines are now sent to the magistrate.
So a £100 fine becomes a £200 fine.
This was relatively minor speeding with a clean driving licence, so beware when making progress. 🙂