Speeding - 3 points...
 

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[Closed] Speeding - 3 points and fine or awareness course

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Bugger. First speeding ping in the last 20 yrs (doing national travel jobs) bringing family back from Bristol airport at 00:30 - empty Bristol M5, gantry not displaying anything, camera flash and letter today.

Have zero points currently would STW take the points + £100 hit or use a days holiday plus unstated admin cost to go on the awareness course? I'm thinking former but unsure if the insurance bump will be big for a lowly 3 points?


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 10:23 am
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Depends if they offer it to you ...

Were you 15 mph over the speed limit?


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 10:25 am
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Do the awareness course. You can often get evening ones, mine was 5.30 - 9.30pm. It was actually quite good, most people engaged pretty well with it and it wasn't preachy or patronising.

Insurance company never need to know about it.


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 10:26 am
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I'd do the course to avoid having to carry the points for 5 years.


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 10:27 am
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Course every time for me. That answer might be different if I was self employed and the time was going to cost me a couple of hundred quid.


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 10:29 am
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Do the course its only a day at the most, points last for five years


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 10:31 am
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Go on the course - as I commented on the NSL thread, when I was offered the chance to attend one it had been over 35 years since I'd had any formal driving training and had had that time to develop loads of bad habits.


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 10:31 am
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Ok didn't realise there may be an evening option, anyone know the admin cost? I was 14 over.


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 10:34 am
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Cost is usually £100 so the same as the fine. Some insurance companies still ask you to declare that you have been on a Speed Awareness Course so you may still have to declare to insurance company.


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 10:38 am
 sbob
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Mate just did the course, was slightly less than the fine.

Also points only last for three years, for totting up purposes even if they are declarable to Ins Cos for five and physically remain on your licence for four.


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 10:38 am
 sbob
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Some insurance companies still ask you to declare that you have been on a Speed Awareness Course so you may still have to declare to insurance company.

Admiral Group ask you.

Not sure if they can find out if you tell porkies though...


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 10:41 am
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I can't believe anyone would take the points if they offer a course instead.  Might only be three points but you'd wish you'd done the course if you get a second ticket 🙂


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 10:41 am
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Pretty unanimous - thanks STW!


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 10:41 am
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@sbob - Yeh I don't believe that they can find out as when I did the course they stated that is wasn't recorded anywhere that you had attended...


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 10:42 am
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just to make you aware, i didnt see anyone comment it,

if you do the course and subsequently get caught speeding within 2 years (maybe 3) then you'll have the original points added back on.. (west yorkshire)


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 10:47 am
 sbob
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I didn't see anyone comment on it

That would be because it's bollocks.


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 10:54 am
 IHN
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FWIW, if they are your only points, they'll have very little, if any, affect on insurance premiums.


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 10:55 am
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One thing to bear in mind is you may have to go back to Bristol* for the course, i believe some forces will recognise a course run anywhere some won't. This was second hand at the time and therefore may be utter tosh mind.

If it is true I'd take the points over the ten hour return trip to Bristol from here, I'd take the course without hesitating if it were local.

*or at least somewhere in that neck of the woods.

At the risk of starting a completely different argument...

gantry not displaying anything,

Why would that matter?


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 11:15 am
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Basically, you can pay £100 to have 3 points put on your licence.

Or you can pay £100 and receive some valuable education.


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 11:22 am
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Quick Q: how long does it take for a notification to come thru?

I might have gone too fast through the new cameras on the A55 at the weekend not realising that they were now switched on....

🙁


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 11:24 am
 sbob
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Two weeks if you are the registered keeper.


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 11:27 am
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if you do the course and subsequently get caught speeding within 2 years (maybe 3) then you’ll have the original points added back on.. (west yorkshire)

Not true - if you're caught speeding again within 3 years you do not have the option of the course and it's automatic points but they do not add on anything - the course is INSTEAD OF the points.

When I did mine I could book it locally. The speeding (34mph in a 30...) was in North Yorkshire, I did the course about a mile from work in central Manchester.


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 11:29 am
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14 days to get notice to the registered keeper.

is it your car or a company/lease car? It’ll take longer to get to you in this case as it’ll go to them first and they ID you..


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 11:30 am
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I went on a course. It was worth it for potential insurance costs.

There was some bollocks spoken by the instructors (specifically that you have to be within a foot of a truck to get a slipstream advantage from it - though this was only in response to a remark made in jest about why one might tailgate), but mostly good advice - though really a lot of the issues more relevant for the majority of the class who were caught in 30 zones (where I try very hard not to speed anyway).

To be honest, it seemed to me like a far more effective intervention than getting 3 points and a fine, and I'm pretty happy that this is the first thing offered to people.


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 11:34 am
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To be honest, it seemed to me like a far more effective intervention than getting 3 points and a fine

It does strike me as odd that those most likely in need of the education (large amount over) aren't offered it in honesty. It would seem sensible to me to make it mandatory for anyone caught every time.


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 11:41 am
 IHN
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I've been on a course, I found it pretty interesting and useful. Again, some bollocks from the instructors, especially around the magic 112 number to dial for the emergency services.

It does strike me as odd that those most likely in need of the education (large amount over) aren’t offered it in honesty.

People driving a large amount over the limit don't need to be educated that it's a stupid thing to do, they know that already but don't care. The point of the courses is that they show that marginal increases in speed that may seem harmless bring with them a disproportionately large increase in the level of risk.


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 11:49 am
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With regards to having to go back to Bristol - this won't be the case. I've got caught speeding in Bristol and was able to do the course in my native Cardiff.


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 11:53 am
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So you were doing 84mph on an empty motorway? They really should up the limits at times, so outdated!


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 11:55 am
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Go on then, what was the thing they said about 112?


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 11:56 am
 IHN
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What didn't they say about 112...

- it'll use the GPS on your phone to track you down, 999 won't

- it'll get through when there's no signal, 999 won't

and my favourite:

- it works when you've go no battery left on your phone(!)

What they definitely didn't say was that 999 and 112 are exactly the same thing.


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 11:59 am
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as said above, Admiral require you to declare and they seem to have a way of finding out if you have been on one.....


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 12:00 pm
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It was actually quite good, most people engaged pretty well with it and it wasn’t preachy or patronising.

Must've been a different course from the one I did.

But yeah.  Course over points any day.


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 12:03 pm
 cb
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My instructor opened things up with "So what's the intial feeling for you all being here"?  First response was a dozy woman saying "Not again"...

Hopefully the rest of us learnt a few things!  Proper definition of a dual carraigeway and therefore correct speed limit was new to me.  Always assumed all two lane roads were classed as such.


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 12:06 pm
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@sbob why do you say its bollocks.

@crAZY-LEGS thanks for the clarification. i guess no longer true

i got a speed awareness course in sept 2013, in the small print it said if you get caught speeding in x years, the points from this will be added on to your future points. clearly i dont have the paperwork anymore so cannot prove this :0)


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 12:11 pm
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It would seem sensible to me to make it mandatory for anyone caught every time.

That might actually prove a more effective deterrent for drivers who bounce around between 9 and 12 points and value their time more than money in fines and increased insurance costs.

I'd also add a rule that makes you take it within 6 weeks, or loose you licence until it's done if you go over.


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 12:18 pm
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Happy to accept I'm in the wrong - but yep 84 on a dry, empty motorway in the middle of the night :-<. The variable France system (where we'd just returned from holiday) of 110/130 kmh depending on conditions is far more sensible.


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 12:20 pm
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With regards to having to go back to Bristol – this won’t be the case. I’ve got caught speeding in Bristol and was able to do the course in my native Cardiff.

+1 in my case cheshire following being zapped on the m4.

It was this lot

http://www.ttc-uk.com

I hope you don't get the same condescending **** I had. One of the instructors was great though.


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 12:23 pm
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Do the course. I did one about 5 years ago and it was awful, hopefully they have got better, that seems to be the general consensus. I found mine hard to take seriously after the tutor was adamant that her answer was correct even though that broke the laws of physics!!!


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 12:25 pm
 sok
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I went on one once and instructor went round us all at first asking why we thought we speeded. Generally responses were "no paying attention", "few mph extra don't count" and so on.  One woman said it was because she was always running late and then confessed to doing 100mph on a 60mph stretch of road on the way to the course... FFS...


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 12:27 pm
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What didn’t they say about 112…

– it’ll use the GPS on your phone to track you down, 999 won’t

– it’ll get through when there’s no signal, 999 won’t

and my favourite:

– it works when you’ve go no battery left on your phone(!)

What they definitely didn’t say was that 999 and 112 are exactly the same thing.

I was once told that 112 would work even if you were in a cave. There seems to be this wonderful myth built up around it that it's a magical number that can just be beamed into the sky from a device with no power and no reception...


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 1:01 pm
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I got caught on the M5 by Bristol and did my speed awareness course in Northampton.


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 1:22 pm
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The course is going to be heavily dependent on the quality of the presenters. The course I did had two instructors, both seemed to know their subject very well but the difference between them was night and day. One was entertaining and engaging, keeping people on board for the message she was trying to get across the other was tedious and condescending and pitched his sections as if they were aimed at a group of under 10's. It was really difficult to pay attention whenever the second instructor took over.


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 1:36 pm
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Have zero points currently would STW take the points + £100 hit or use a days holiday plus unstated admin cost to go on the awareness course? I’m thinking former but unsure if the insurance bump will be big for a lowly 3 points?

Take whichever that does not impact on your insurance premium. i.e. awareness course as it sounds like the 3 points will impact on your insurance premium for years.


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 4:02 pm
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i got a speed awareness course in sept 2013, in the small print it said if you get caught speeding in x years, the points from this will be added on to your future points. clearly i dont have the paperwork anymore so cannot prove this :0)

I'd be interested if anyone has got any actual evidence of this happening. As you go into the SAC without any conviction or fixed penalty being applied, they couldn't just slap the points on, they'd have to go through this process from scratch, potentially a couple of years after the offence.

It's not like you have the points, but they can be 'suspended' - if you are offered and accepted a SAC, you have neither admitted nor been convicted of any crime.

Does accepting a SAC have the same legal status as taking the fixed penalty or pleading guilty in court?


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 4:03 pm
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Taking the points means if you are caught again you've now got 6 points and that will definitely cost you on insurance, why risk it? Taking the course can be an entertaining day too - I'm not talking about the instructors, but a chance to listen to the astounding lack of road awareness of other attendees, and hear their stories of self importance as if they are doing the instructors a favor by being there.


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 5:52 pm
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Just got done for 81 in a 70... the motorway was empty, was done 5 years ago for 34 in a 30


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 7:10 pm
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@oldmanmtb - sounds like the previous course had wore off

😉


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 7:58 pm
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I got nabbed a couple of years ago in Slough and did the course on a Sunday morning in Ealing.

Similar experiences to other people regarding the tutors/presenters (Jekyll & Hyde) and my fellow attendees... most took it seriously, but one spent nearly the whole session playing with his phone.

One major learning that I took away was the number of new signs that have been introduced over the years that I was completely unaware of. Straight after the course I ordered a new copy of the highway code for reading material whilst on the bog.


 
Posted : 24/08/2018 11:34 pm
 sbob
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I’d be interested if anyone has got any actual evidence of this happening.

I've already covered this:

it’s bollocks

HTH.


 
Posted : 25/08/2018 12:21 am
 sbob
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How are you people getting caught so easily?

I drove a 400Bhp+ E39 M5 that would do 0-60 in less than 5 secs and over 187mph and have a licence that's cleaner than the Queen's wipe.

Sort yourselves out!


 
Posted : 25/08/2018 12:28 am
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getting  caught at 84mph by a camera means  the speedo  would have been on 90 mph , as  every car I have ever owned over read by a good  few mph ./ % of what my GPS records

Take the SAC , it might mean you can drive quicker without  getting caught in the future .

Some of  the comments on the one I did  were  outstanding . "Pedestrians dont have right of way " , Yep, spot on , feel free  to mow  them  down without fear of prosecution as  they dont have right of way


 
Posted : 25/08/2018 8:55 am
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I was caught on the M4 by Bristol (70 in a smart motorway 60) and sent on a motorway-specific speed awareness course, for which I was able to choose from a list of locations around the country. Quite different from what I understand the normal speed awareness course to be, it was largely focused on the smart motorways, how they work etc.

Obviously there were some quite silly comments from the audience but not that many. Considering the participants are only really turning up to avoid the points I found them to be generally more engaged in it than I expected.


 
Posted : 25/08/2018 9:12 am
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– it’ll get through when there’s no signal, 999 won’t

I found out at Kirroughtree last week that 999 will work when the phone doesn't show a signal (OH locked car with our youngest, her phone and the key inside). I wasn't aware that this was an option before…


 
Posted : 25/08/2018 12:43 pm
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Take the course, you will learn something and be a better driver as a result. Unless of course you’re just going to sit there with no intention of learning anything, then just take the points and carry on in blissfull ignorance.

i did the course when I got caught a few years ago. There were two kinds of people on the course, people like me who approached it with curiosity and actually got something out of the course and are probably more considerate and safer drivers as a result, and those unrepentant muppets who thought they knew it all and tried to catch out the course leaders all day, but just ended up looking like the arrogant muppets they were. The sooner they lose their lisenses the better.

its amazing that we pass a test at 17 (usually) and then are able to drive one of the deadliest weapons ever devised by man for the rest of our lives without the need for any further mandatory testing or training, even when we get caught speeding or doing something else wrong indicating our lack of skill/awareness/education/bad habits/arrogance/ignorance. So the course is really an opportunity rather than a punishment.


 
Posted : 25/08/2018 6:04 pm
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OH locked car with our youngest, her phone and the key inside

Off topic, but why would you ring 999 in those circumstances? What did they do that you couldn't?


 
Posted : 25/08/2018 7:49 pm
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I found out at Kirroughtree last week that 999 will work when the phone doesn’t show a signal

That's because an emergency call will use any network it can find. e.g. if you're on EE but have no signal it'll use O2. 112 is the same (obv...).


 
Posted : 30/08/2018 12:02 pm
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I really do think it would be beneficial for each and every driver to be reassesed every 10 years. Those that were deemed as ok, fine off you go, those that fail to reach the standard required have to take referesher lessons and take the assesment again. If they fail a second time they are demoted back to a provisional licence.

It might go some way to reducing the death toll and the self entitled attitude that many people have about driving being a right, not a priviledge.


 
Posted : 30/08/2018 4:11 pm
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New cars don't overread by 10%, the last two I've driven have been consistently over by exactly 2 mph.

So if you think you can do 84 indicated and still not get a ticket you're in for a surprise.

Or you could just do what half the Range Rovers on the M1 seem to do and use a combination of false number plates and radar detectors.


 
Posted : 30/08/2018 10:19 pm
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I did a speed awareness course last year (85mph on the M5 near Bristol), cost was £90-something quid so pretty much the same as the fine so it comes down to can you take time off work easily (I wasn't offered an evening option) and do you think it will affect your insurance much declaring the points.

The course is pretty pointless IMO, OK it reinforces a few things but apparently I was the only one (out of about 15 people) that knew they were speeding and occasionally choose to speed if I judge road conditions allow it (yeah I should burn in hell I know). My driving hasn't really changed since (and yes I'll only have myself to blame if I get caught again)


 
Posted : 31/08/2018 8:05 am
 DezB
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I [i]thought[/i] I would find the course pointless, and the room full of arseholes who think they know best... but neither were true. For me the ooh, it's dangerous to speed and the look around you (er, I'm a cyclist, I [i]have to![/i]) stuff didn't mean much (bleedin obvious), but things like how passengers feel when you're driving them, why speed limits are changed, and a few other bits I found very useful. Not £100 worth of useful, but I certainly didn't feel it was a wasted morning.


 
Posted : 31/08/2018 8:18 am

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