[Closed] Speed with Guy Martin

First time I've seen him without Fivetens on.

630kg leg press 😯

That prototype looks fantastically shed-built.

Tea (bag) anyone?

Ahh, Ben and his foils.

Don't really care if Guy does it, we've just had Ben on TV.

Thats quite some setup BAR have int it..

And they've just shown my Club with the foiling Moths.

Yay!!!

Propeller !!! Way to much drag,how did anyone think that would work 🙁

So at university you think you can transfer 1kw through 6mm of aluminium? You shear 8mm steel bolts clamping things to a milling bed (if your a testosterone fueled monkey with something to prove to your class mates).
I've missed something Shirley.

Never knew those little hydrofoil yachts existed. I want one.

We've got 32 at the club..

And now my old sailing club at Carsington Water...

Bloody hell.

Up in God's country now!
How many ****ing adverts btw!

5 mins to go, he ain't going to do it is he!

That was a it lame in the end!

Would they have been better cutting the hydro foils off?

Am I being thick or were they really 16mph short?

90 minutes later...

Next weeks looks good, 400mph on a motorbike.

Should let those nutters up in Rivington know eh Hora.

The last couple have been abject failures - both drawn out, would be better tv wrapped up in an hour. Next weeks looks good... fingers crossed.

Tonights was good, and not just because it finished up at Carsington, which is just down the road from the Pudding Room.

Last weeks was dire. Next weeks looks like a proper job again.

both systems had way too much drag. I did think that a variable pitch prop may have worked better on the cat rather than that fan thing, which was great at moving air, but rubbish in the water. Moths are ace, if your very good.

I just couldn't fathom that at all. I don't believe the lack of any CofG calculations pre prototype (hey guy, how much do you weigh, find a student who weighs about that).. equally, don't believe about the oh my knees don't fit, or the prop never having been tried in water.. or some maths to determine required power output.

Are those moths the e bikes of yachting?

The beauty of foiling moths is that they are a development class, which means whilst it must fit in a virtual box, most everything else is free to develop. They get foiling in about 8knts if you are good and light, 10-12 for most others.
If anyone remembers Moths of old, they were still a development class but like most boats based on displacement. Over the years the hulls became thinner and lighter, it was only a matter to time before foils came along and changed the class for good.
Foils have been used in International 14's for about 10-12 years, restricted to the rudder the main purpose is to keep the bow down and increase waterline length. Very successful in that too.

But the worlds changed now, for good or bad, it's all about foiling.

Here's a paddleboard foiling downwind, and some windsurfing too..

Plenty of coverage on YouTube..

Are those moths the e bikes of yachting?

no, those Moths are the unicycles on drugs of yachting. 😀

that first vid is awesome.

In other rants, I know Guy is rarely seen without 5 tens on, but it was getting verrry product placement yesterday e.g. shots of just his cast off 5 tens after he changed into SPDs, similarly the shots of hope bits..

How the hell did they ever think he'd balance it on those two central foils, even if he did get it out of the water?

Everything in this series just seems a bit of a rush job, without the development/scientific effort really put in. I reckon the soap-box or sledge team might have got it to work.

The BAR America's Cup yacht and that section was awesome though. Some serious sponsorship money going on there!

In other rants, I know Guy is rarely seen without 5 tens on, but it was getting verrry product placement yesterday e.g. shots of just his cast off 5 tens after he changed into SPDs, similarly the shots of hope bits..

Is it really a bad thing? or should he take a diet coke break instead??

They do need to put speed in inverted commas this series. And this series just feels lacking in information, they used to show more of the construction and training, this feels a bit empty. Guy turns up and here's one we worked on earlier, tea ... boss ... tea ... boss, hope, 5:10, heads home, repeat and fail. I don't know whether it's that the challenges are less interesting or whether it's that Guys profile has increased and he has less time but this struggles to hold attention.

It's called 'Speed' and he did 5mph.

How fast would a top class kayaker manage? Or a Steve Redgrave? He was quiet nippy on the water.

[i]It's called 'Speed' and he did 5mph.[/i]
(Stolen from another thread)

thenorthwind -
.. if you're being pedantic, is a speed, just not a very high one.

A bit disappointing. The annoying thing about this one is that you'd feel fairly certain that the BAR lot could knock one up that would work in an afternoon. I know that's not the sprit of the programme, but we get introduced to them, Guy goes out in Ben's awesome boat, we see some Moths going at bonkers speed, and then........ disappointment.

The annoying thing about this one is that you'd feel fairly certain that the BAR lot could knock one up that would work in an afternoon.

Did anyone else think they could have gone faster in a pedalo? 😆

Entertaining, but that seemed like a lot of effort for only 5mph.

he does give a good quote, doesn't he.

[img] [/img]

How fast would a top class kayaker manage?

I'm far from a top class kayaker and could hold an average of 5mph for a good while in my sea boat. I use 3.5mph as my average over whole days including looking in caves, playing round rocks, etc.

Liam heath did the 200m in Rio in 35.2s which is approx 12.5-13mph. Seb Brendel won 1km in under 3.57.

I remember a Tomorrows World or Record Breakers or something yyyearrs ago with a pedal powered hydrofoil

iirc the only way they could get the drag v power ratio correct was to use a tandem arrangement with two people back-to-back, incredibly narrow smooth hull with one minimalist foil (not all that metal stuff dragging in the water!), streamlined prop in the water not the air, and a tiny rudder.

There you go.

Thanks for the spoiler there.

^I don't think "thanks" is the word 👿

Come on celticdragon, I get that in this connected day and age spoilers are part and parcel of life, but spoilers [i][b]before[/b][/i] a program is even broadcast are just not on. Go to the naughty step.

No point watching it now 🙁

[silver linings]at least I can reclaim an hour of next Sunday evening[/silver linings]

Still time to edit for some of the folk who haven't looked at this thread.

I've asked the Mods to errr... Mod the last few posts.

[i]No point watching it now[/i]

OH come on, surely with #Guylove it's about the [i]journey[/i], not just the ending.. 😉

90 minutes of foreplay before the apology?

In fairness, the end of last night's prog showed it wasn't going to go all that well.

There needs to be more wins, otherwise there's no point calling the show 'Speed'

It should be called 'Half-Cocked'

Sorry gents, and I can't even see a way of editing the post. 😳

OH come on, surely with #Guylove it's about the journey, not just the ending..

Whilst I'm inclined to agree, all that effort and he could probably have done better with just a sea kayak, although I guess Hope and Five Ten don't make kayaking equipment 😉

Deleted.

Just watched the hydroplaning one and it looked like his pedalling was awful, all jerky with no smooth cadence. Surely that would cause the prop to create turbulence?

Agreed on this series being a bit lacking though, don't care if he gets the records he's going for but it would be good to see a few where they've obviously tried and got close. Next week's should be good as it's a serious, factory effort regardless of what happens!*

* no spoiler from me 🙂

The thing with a kayak/pedalo or somesuch is that it will never break the record - If Liam Heath can't do 12 knots in the least draggy canoe you can get your hands on where is the next 6 knots coming from?

Yeah it only did 5 knots, but the slow bit was always going to be the hard part - until you can get it clear of the water you don't really know what it's capable of.

Did anyone else think they could have gone faster in a pedalo?

Yup, even said so to Mrs TD.

Really poorly executed, amateurish designs, crap propellers (both air and water) - a waste of BAR's time, the guy with the GPS's time, Chris Hoy's time and Guy's talents.

Incidentally, it will be difficult to maintain a smooth pedalling stroke over the dead centres with a water propeller because there is virtually no flywheel effect to maintain momentum.

Lets HOPE that the next one is better 😉 (Pike's Peak - now that was a programme!)

It wasn't exactly the best advert for Lincoln university was it!

If Liam Heath can't do 12 knots in the least draggy canoe you can get your hands on where is the next 6 knots coming from?

I am surprised they went to a choppy lake for the second attempt, there's at least 2 sheltered rowing lakes within an hour of Lincoln.

The Flyak peak speed is pretty good, but the 500M record is only 10.4 knots, so still needs 8 knots on top. Pretty surprising unless they only set records from a standing start.

Even if they can sustain the 14 odd knots that they get at that peak speed, the power requirements to jump another 3 knots are actually pretty large.

I think the power delivery in kayak format can't get enough in which is why the record needs other solutions.

I don't think the choppiness or otherwise of the water was that significant.

Much as I admire Guy Martin, I really wanted to see Chris Hoy have a go at pedaling the boats.

@docrobster when the guy says live on TVs I do as little as I can

****ing no shit Sherlock if you had bothered to do anything the boat might have worked

Really poorly executed, amateurish designs, crap propellers (both air and water) - a waste of BAR's time, the guy with the GPS's time, Chris Hoy's time and Guy's talents.

They clearly missed a trick in not getting you in for your expertise, instead of asking an engineering professor, an aeronautical engineer, a professional boatbuilder...

I think so, too.

The university "effort" was woeful and the professors attitude to the failure was quite frankly shocking. His assertion that "industry won't know what hit them when these student get out" was laughable and more than a little embarrassing. A lot of this just seems like, who can we get to do this for free/the publicity? It's almost like a YouTube series converted to TV which gives them the budget and influence to ask some experts but not enough to actually use any.

I like Guy but as someone says above this is a bit half cocked and is getting a bit painful to watch. I hope the next ones done a bit better or Channel 4 are really wasting his talents.

The university "effort" was woeful and the professors attitude to the failure was quite frankly shocking. His assertion that "industry won't know what hit them when these student get out" was laughable and more than a little embarrassing

I totally agree. The fact that something on the Uni machine broke every time it moved was terrible. It made me quite angry.

In the students defence they pointed out repeatedly that this was being done alongside the end of year work and exams. Given that apparent conflict and the usual time restraints it might be fair to cut them a bit of slack. And the usual 'let's see you do better' caveat applies.

CountZero - Member
They clearly missed a trick in not getting you in for your expertise, instead of asking an engineering professor, an aeronautical engineer, a professional boatbuilder...

There's the old maxim, if it doesn't look right, it isn't right.

Maybe they should have asked tillydog, because the first thing I said when I saw what was proposed was "That'll never fly".

I thought the catamaran was far too short and beamy hulled. Had it been long and thin then the hull speed factor would have been better - anyone who has had to paddle a kayak long distances in choppy water would have seen that straight off. It also had lot of draggy tubing - I don't know if that would have been a factor at the speed he needed to get up on the plane, but it seemed an obvious fault to me.

As for the air driven propellor version - it looked like a lot of weight and frontal area, and again much too short.

I can't remember the formula but to drive a hull past hull speed onto the plane takes a burst of power at which point less is needed. That was what was missing here, first they had to get the hull planing to get sufficient speed to bring the hydroplanes into effect.

And obviously I'm not an engineering professor, an aeronautical engineer, or a professional boatbuilder (although I have built a few). I reckon they should have talked to a surfer, a sea kayaker, and used a sprint cyclists position.

And perhaps read up on Rene Savard...

[url= https://c2.staticflickr.com/3/2063/5695186889_5422bcee82_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://c2.staticflickr.com/3/2063/5695186889_5422bcee82_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

Rene Savard, cross channel ride. Cycling Nov 25th, 1927

a waste of BAR's time

Did you see the look on the head guy from BAR's face when he was talking to Guy about serious stuff and Guy kept interrupting with nonsense, the BAR chap just looked as if he wanted to say 'shut the **** up and listen' 🙂

Probably the highlight of another dull episode.

I have zero nautical experience, but I was still surprised that they hoped to break the world record with what was effectively a pedalo (catamaran powered by underwater propeller).

The other thing looked more credible, but as I said - they should've got Sir Chris to give it a crack, just to see.

My favourite part of the program was when Sir Chris Hot gets into Guy's van and says "Nice van!"
Or was he being sarcastic?

I think the power delivery in kayak format can't get enough in which is why the record needs other solutions

I'm surprised they didn't combine the two. Take the single hulled 'boat' make it a bit longer, take off the outriggers and use a paddle as well as pedalling (might need a bit of practice to get the technique right).

I suspect the WWI propeller was so that they could get Guy in a WWI fighter plane ([i]"take me 'at off to those boys, flying these things with somebody shootin' at ya"[/i]). But, I'm sure propeller design has advanced in 100 years so if they got a modern prop designed then they might be getting somewhere.............

and used a sprint cyclists position.

As much as I enjoyed watching GM, the last two episodes were poor from a science/engineering point of view - the airship one because they didn't really design/build anything of note, and the boat one was as has been pointed out frankly embarrassing given the glut of talent.

I watched this episide today and then googled the topic, i dont get it there are loads of designs out there that seem to be more successful than what they came up with. Even the decavitator design is online.

[url= http://www.human-powered-hydrofoils.com/hydrofoils/trampofoil/ ]http://www.human-powered-hydrofoils.com/hydrofoils/trampofoil/[/url]

The Moths were filmed about 400m from my flat .
I watched it and thought the designs too draggy. There is the same effect with windsurfing . You need x amount of power to get you up to Y speed, at which point you are fully planing. The power required to keep planing is approx 2/3 of what it takes to break the surface tension/ adhesion of water over the hull, and the fin to provide lift to reduce drag.

In fact 2 windsurf fins on the outriggers would have helped , as speed increses then the outriggers would have lifted reducing drag. More than 5knots is needed though.

The next IMCO olympic format is going with foil boards for light wind racing , converting back to a std skeg above 12knots of breeze.

Jason Kenny can produce 1400watts , I think that is the burst energy required to get a hull planing, but alot more R and D needs to into all areas of design , and that costs money and takes time.

Much as I love Guy Martin it was all pretty lame.

The TV people must take the blame. They changed it into an episode of Junkyard Challenge at the end by suddenly making it about two competing teams rather than a serious record attempt.

The whole thing needed more testing and a better engine - Chris Hoy.

PS

I didn't think the Pike's Peak one that someone else mentioned was great either. It was manipulated to be exciting by giving us no info about the speed of the bike and whoever he was competing against.

They work much better when it's something that guy is either a) interested in or b) good at and I got the feeling the last 2 haven't been.

Seasons 1 and 2 were more about relevant skills that Guy has (balls, reactions, bike handling) or covered things he was engaged with enough to fully commit (endurance record with terrahawk). There werent many better choices for pilot. These have left me with the impression he was a bit forced into it, and just pedalling there are 'better' choices of pilot.

Armchair critics.

I'm not sure what some people expect. Sometimes things don't come off. The production has already been committed and scheduled. It would be boring and unrealistic if he completed all the challenges. Half the interest should come from will he or won't he drama.

The only thing that was a poor choice is the 90 minute format. Zap out 30mins and it wouldn't seem such a come down.

Are people seriously expecting him to break the records every time?

Are people seriously expecting him to break the records every time?

The university lot should have been a lot more prepared, done a lot of testing with a strong rider before letting Guy near it and at least produce a design that got out of the water, even if it didn't get to the ultimate speed. The fact that the gearbox was WAY too weak suggests they didn't. I suspect Guy wouldn't have done the plan B boat if he'd have been at all confident. Although it could be that Ron saw his arse when the mono-hull was suggested and just didn't really bother after that.

His (second) autobiography would suggest he's not that fussed about doing it anyway

I think that was the main problem with the airship attempt. If someone who really wanted to break the record, they'd have been in a hotel for a week or more waiting for the weather window needed.

Not that you can blame Guy for that, from the books it's quite clear that the trucks come first and the telly fits in, they should have had a plan B, (back up rider) for that one too.